RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
Crazy, effeminate, conspiracy theorists? Who are you talking about exactly? Am I in this group based on the thoughts I expressed in this thread?
If it's any consolation, I think that avatar is very macho.
EDIT: I mean ... it's not like it's a little princess pony or anything.
[If it's any consolation, I think that avatar is very macho.
EDIT: I mean ... it's not like it's a little princess pony or anything.
Hi - larious!
Reynard the Innkeeper
Male Human Fighter 9 (Guardian Fighter)
Str 20, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11
Reynard, or Nard as most of his friends call him, was a successful adventurer before retiring to the life of an innkeeper in a quiet mountain town. Though he is famous for the orcish grog that he brews, he is finding that he makes a poor innkeeper. He is barely making ends meet and longs for the days of independence he experienced as an adventurer. The patrons at his inn have accustomed themselves to listening to his complaints as they sip his grog. Nard is quick to regale people about how things were done back in his day, when adventurers didn’t have much magic and made do with what little they had. He still keeps his armor, shield and longsword well oiled and displayed in a place of pride in his inn. He often keeps in shape by running drills and teaching the local militia a weapon trick or two. Everyone in the village though knows that he is just looking for any excuse to sell his inn and go wandering around the world again, killing monsters and taking their stuff.
Today the term Grognard (in the context of the term being used on the wotc D&D website) references those unhappy (for whatever reasons) with 4e. Are there other earlier meanings to the term? Sure, but in this context that's clearly what it's referencing.
So we have wotc, on their website (whoever actually wrote the piece), openly mocking those people. Sorry, but equating your critics to a rather pathetic npc, who has tried to run his own business, and is failing, is clearly a knock (even if it is genuinely meant in jest).
I guess I just don't see things as "clearly" as you. Nard is quick to regale people about how things were done back in his day, when adventurers didn’t have much magic and made do with what little they had. I take "back in his day" to mean B/E/C/M/I D&D, 1E, and/or 2E, not the lastest incarnations (3-4E where magic gear seems more prevalent and required).
As for those who take the "he makes a poor innkeeper... [and] is barely making ends meet" part to be a jab at Paizo, just finish reading that sentence of the character description. Apparently, he "longs for the days of independence he experienced as an adventurer." So if this Reynard guy is some sort of clever stand-in for Paizo, the "days of independence" in his past would be when he published Dragon and Dungeon magazines (for WotC) and produced adventures for 3.x (WotC's game system). That's INDEPENDENCE??!!
Sorry, that does not follow or make an ounce of sense. Nah, I'm pretty convinced that Reynard's just a crappy, cliched, poor joke of an RPGA character with no cruel intent for 3E players or Paizo. If that WAS its intent, then it failed miserably.
he makes a poor innkeeper. He is barely making ends meet and longs for the days of independence he experienced as an adventurer.
Reynard the Innkeeper
Male Human Fighter 9 (Guardian Fighter)
Str 20, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11
Reynard, or Nard as most of his friends call him, was a successful adventurer before retiring to the life of an innkeeper in a quiet mountain town. Though he is famous for the orcish grog that he brews, he is finding that he makes a poor innkeeper. He is barely making ends meet and longs for the days of independence he experienced as an adventurer. The patrons at his inn have accustomed themselves to listening to his complaints as they sip his grog. Nard is quick to regale people about how things were done back in his day, when adventurers didn’t have much magic and made do with what little they had. He still keeps his armor, shield and longsword well oiled and displayed in a place of pride in his inn. He often keeps in shape by running drills and teaching the local militia a weapon trick or two. Everyone in the village though knows that he is just looking for any excuse to sell his inn and go wandering around the world again, killing monsters and taking their stuff.I guess I just don't see things as "clearly" as you.Today the term Grognard (in the context of the term being used on the wotc D&D website) references those unhappy (for whatever reasons) with 4e. Are there other earlier meanings to the term? Sure, but in this context that's clearly what it's referencing.
So we have wotc, on their website (whoever actually wrote the piece), openly mocking those people. Sorry, but equating your critics to a rather pathetic npc, who has tried to run his own business, and is failing, is clearly a knock (even if it is genuinely meant in jest).
So you think it's a jab at those pesky veterans of Napoleon's Grande Armee then? Or perhaps a strange jab at wargamers of the 70s?
Come along now, all the hedging aside, it was a bad idea to put something on their official website that can certainly be taken as a deliberate jab at their digruntled (ex?)customers.
But hey, y'know, more power to them. I'm all for wotc making more silly decisions now. :-)
So you think it's a jab at those pesky veterans of Napoleon's Grande Armee then? Or perhaps a strange jab at wargamers of the 70s?
Nope; I don't think it's a jab at all. I think it's just a dumb character.
Come along now, all the hedging aside, it was a bad idea to put something on their official website that can certainly be taken as a deliberate jab at their digruntled (ex?)customers.
I think there's a lot of things WotC's done over the past year or so that customers past and present have every right to be upset about. This--to me at least--doesn't even register.
Maybe I'm not sensitive enough; maybe other people are too sensitive and read more into stuff than is actually there.
Crazy, effeminate, conspiracy theorists? Who are you talking about exactly? Am I in this group based on the thoughts I expressed in this thread?
I'll wait.
If this - "If you are insulted or irritated by a perceived slight against 3E holdouts in that joke..." = you, then yes I meant you.
We all knew what grognard means by book definition and current slang definition, but if you were over at the other sites, you'd get that it was becoming the new word for people not moving on with the new edition as well.
Regardless of how people might be using it at other sites, I'm willing to bet they were implying the classic definition in this case. It was a joke poking fun at all of us that have been playing for a long time.
You're so vain...I'll bet you think this song is about you...don't you, don't you...
I guess I just don't see things as "clearly" as you. Nard is quick to regale people about how things were done back in his day, when adventurers didn’t have much magic and made do with what little they had. I take "back in his day" to mean B/E/C/M/I D&D, 1E, and/or 2E, not the lastest incarnations (3-4E where magic gear seems more prevalent and...
Agreed. Since when could 3E be described as "when adventurers didn’t have much magic and made do with what little they had"?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
So we have wotc, on their website (whoever actually wrote the piece), openly mocking those people. Sorry, but equating your critics to a rather pathetic npc, who has tried to run his own business, and is failing, is clearly a knock (even if it is genuinely meant in jest).
I can see how the use of the term grognard can be offensive, but I really don't get how this is an insult. The fact that he is failing at being an innkeeper is the reason the guy wants to go adventuring. It gives him a motive to go kill monsters and take their stuff. If he is running a 35 inn franchise and rolling in cash, he's not going to be all that interested in poking goblins with a sharp stick for a handful of coins or, to the extent he is, he's going to be better armed and armored than your average 1st level PC. I think you really have to read a lot into that statement to come up with the intent to insult.
Given that the world revolves around me, every post on every message board ever is about me.
You are MSB!!! I knew it. I just knew it!!! (1 XP if you know the reference).
Okay, I may be out of the loop on something.
Is 'Sebastrd':
(a) a less polite alternate identity for Sebastian;
(b) Sebastian's stalker/worshipper;
(c) someone who thinks Sebastian's too tactful and needs to be shown how to say what he means;
or (d) Absolutely no relation?
There can only be one! Imposter I say, trying to suck up Lord Sebastian's magnificence like a lamprey by using a similar name!...in other words, I vote (d)
Okay, I may be out of the loop on something.
Is 'Sebastrd':
(a) a less polite alternate identity for Sebastian;
(b) Sebastian's stalker/worshipper;
(c) someone who thinks Sebastian's too tactful and needs to be shown how to say what he means;
or (d) Absolutely no relation?
An easy way to tell who is an alias of who is to hover over their name for a moment. In IE, at least, the person's real account will say something like "Go to So-And-So's Page" while an alias will say "Alias of So-And-So".
Really handy if you think someone is arguing with themself. ;)
Y'know. I can take the teasing. I played Panzer Blitz. I played Panzer Leader. I played Squad Leader before it was Advanced Squad Leader (still play a little of that too). I played Basic D&D, 1e D&D, and the rest of the AD&D pedigree up to 3.5 (and have dabbled with 4e, but it's not the game I want to play). I don't mind the term grognard, even used perjoratively, because I know what value I bring to the gaming table.
But given the level of infighting going on, I can't see even a good-natured tease as being good business sense right now. WotC has made plenty of missteps lately regarding earlier versions of D&D in their marketing and the sensitivity of fans. They're like the party that refuses to go dungeoneering with a trap-finder. They keep walking into them. That diminishes my respect for them as a business.
Yeah, Bill, that was more what I wanted my point to be. It's not that this is such a devastating blow... it's tiny diced potatoes, really. But the timing of jabbing past customers right now really does seem like business done wrong, and WotC is a company filled floor to ceiling with so much talent that I'm suprised even something like this could get past the gatekeepers.
I wrote to Scott Rouse less than a month ago, a man I quite like. I'm not anti-Wizzies. But when I see him in a week I am going to ask him quite specifically about what the thinking is around their offices regarding these orbiting aspects of elitists, cross edition name calling, and factions. Despite the large amounts of money and job security involved, I have a feeling that the upper level guys would actually prefer to stay out of it, above the fray, and have people just buy and enjoy the game they want to.
Then again, I was born painfully naive, as evidenced by all this swamp land I bought.
::waves goodbye as he sinks beneath the bog::
And this reality loves @#$%ing me.Watch out for Phenomenological Herpes.
LOL. Too late. Big red bumps on my perspective and they hurt to think about but hey, life is a game and I was a player, right?
If it's any consolation, I think that avatar is very macho.EDIT: I mean ... it's not like it's a little princess pony or anything.
Well, there is that. Plus this wolf was never spayed, so I'm still a scrote swinging threat, able to knock up the neighborhood poodles and surprise you with a fusioned litter of flesh feasting show dogs.
If this - "If you are insulted or irritated by a perceived slight against 3E holdouts in that joke..." = you, then yes I meant you.Crazy, effeminate, conspiracy theorists? Who are you talking about exactly? Am I in this group based on the thoughts I expressed in this thread?
I'll wait.
All you had to do was realize you were being that guy and relax your harsh response. No chance, huh? Well then, you just called me a crazy pansy conspiracy theorist because I was slightly irked by the WotC poke, and worse, you actually seem righteous and proud of yourself. It's odd, because you got so fired up by what you saw as unnecessary reactions in this thread, but then seem oblivious to how unnecessary the tone of your own response to it was.
It bothered you so much that people saw things differently than you did that you just had to compulsively jump in and prove you were the only guy on the thread who couldn't really deal with the situation, the actual thin-skinned party. I think you're actually the one engaging a spot of delusion, as evidenced by the broad connections in your overstatements. You think I'm a irrational? I'm not the one name calling. And if you think I'm a pussy, I'd be glad to set you straight on that one, chief. I can take whatever pejorative blasts you have to offer while continuing to offer an attempt to discuss things sanely, scored with a burning desire to help abate whatever anti-social tendencies ail you. Call it my unceasing interest in civility and humanity.
Regardless of how people might be using it at other sites, I'm willing to bet they were implying the classic definition in this case. It was a joke poking fun at all of us that have been playing for a long time.
How often do you actually win when you bet? Even if you were right in this case, I'm (and people who saw this big nothing similarly) supposed to then take disrespectful shots? Does that make sense to you? Is that how the world really runs, and I just need to toughen up and take crap I don't deserve, or are we looking at the cowardice and lack of personal responsibility and perspective one sometimes encounters in the uglier corners of the internet?
You stressed 'all of us'. I don't really understand your emphasis there. Perhaps you're saying the grognard event doesn't bug you at all, and that if it doesn't bother you it shouldn't bother me, lest I prove myself less a man than you. Are you that special? We should all see things your way? Does our inability to think exactly the way you think make you burn inwardly and cringe? If you said your piece without dragging me into it, I'd never shout you down. But if I speak and you then think can rag me out in public forum, stranger? What trigger goes off in your mind that gives you license to spread the hate? That's not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely curious how you guys think because I've never quite got the gist of that coarsely rude mindset.
You're so vain...I'll bet you think this song is about you...don't you, don't you...
Well, I certainly defend my honor, sir. Every time. Without fail. Call that whatever you want to. I'm left undamaged.
It's telling that you'd attribute vanity to me, when the arrogance involved with insulting people vehemently, the way you did, who were no threat to you or anyone whatsover, is an act requiring gross vanity. Is it that I'm vain, or is it that you're trolling? You hurled names and you got called on it by one of the people you insulted. Either you like butting heads and being disliked for sport or you thought there wouldn't be a consequence, but negative, aggressive BS like that always draws return fire. No one's ever going to care about your points if you don't care to temper them with some degree of reason and precision. I'm guessing (and I admit that I'm guessing - unlike you I don't pretend to have a full psych eval on total strangers) that you don't really care if others get your points and learn from them. Perhaps proclaiming bitterly for its own sake is more up your alley. But again, I'm only guessing. I don't know you well enough to make assertions as to your character, now do I?
What we think on these forums is, of course, insignificant in the grand scheme of things. We live, we experience, we make observations, then we die. This is a place where people come to share those observations, and each other's good company, not to pit fight like overmedicated children. Please be civil, or do go find another forum for your misanthropic toying.
You don't have to like me, as a matter of fact it would be rather strange if you did, but could everyone reading this help to discontinue this recent spate of namecalling and painting every available wall in drenching coats of smug sarcasm? UCH! We have to moderate ourselves or the Paizonians are going to have to take time away from their more valuable tasks, like devising, creating, and distributing great gaming material, to peek in and hand out slaps.
Really handy if you think someone is arguing with themself. ;)
Now that would just be silly.
Now that would just be silly.Really handy if you think someone is arguing with themself. ;)
You am brilliant and know exactly what you am talking about.
Now that would just be silly.Really handy if you think someone is arguing with themself. ;)
You am brilliant and know exactly what you am talking about.
Actually, arguing with yourself isn't that uncommon . . . or so Leonard tells me.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I don't think I've ever seen Jade lay down the smack like that.
I must admit to being aroused by it.
Well played, old man, well played.
Edit: Wait...unless it was secretly directed at me and this whole Sebastrd thing is actually Jade with an alternate account (as opposed to an alias) who has been using the account as a way to desconstruct my posting style and then deliver this devastating blow to me indirectly while simultaneously bringing on a man-crush so that I would internalize his message of love, peace, and all that hippy s#!* and thus quit being a misanthropic bastard myself. That is the sort of devious master plan he would employ now that I think about it...
It all makes sense...
Thou rocketh, Seb.
I just struck me how much Sebastian's avatar looks like Ed Asner.
I always thought it looked like Friar Illkickyerarse.
|
Unless everyone who started playing before me were to mysteriously die... Hmmm...remind me to reinforce the stonewall i just cast across my front door... (yes, mr. chick, i DID learn to cast spells from playing d&d!)Yeah, but with the advent of 4e, those spells are gone. You can't even cast detect evil anymore to warn of Sebastian's approach :(
hey now, i play pathfinder! :P
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
I don't think I've ever seen Jade lay down the smack like that.
I must admit to being aroused by it.
Well played, old man, well played.
Edit: Wait...unless it was secretly directed at me and this whole Sebastrd thing is actually Jade with an alternate account (as opposed to an alias) who has been using the account as a way to desconstruct my posting style and then deliver this devastating blow to me indirectly while simultaneously bringing on a man-crush so that I would internalize his message of love, peace, and all that hippy s&&# and thus quit being a misanthropic bastard myself. That is the sort of devious master plan he would employ now that I think about it...
It all makes sense...
Jade would do a much better you than that wannabe who doesn't deserve to share six letters of your alias.
You guys rock!
Jade would do a much better you than that wannabe who doesn't deserve to share six letters of your alias.I don't think I've ever seen Jade lay down the smack like that.
I must admit to being aroused by it.
Well played, old man, well played.
Edit: Wait...unless it was secretly directed at me and this whole Sebastrd thing is actually Jade with an alternate account (as opposed to an alias) who has been using the account as a way to desconstruct my posting style and then deliver this devastating blow to me indirectly while simultaneously bringing on a man-crush so that I would internalize his message of love, peace, and all that hippy s&&# and thus quit being a misanthropic bastard myself. That is the sort of devious master plan he would employ now that I think about it...
It all makes sense...
Too true, but isn't it amazing the way Sebastian's mind works? He's always playing it three moves ahead. I can't play it more than one move ahead.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
Is that how the world really runs, and I just need to toughen up and take crap I don't deserve, or are we looking at the cowardice and lack of personal responsibility and perspective one sometimes encounters in the uglier corners of the internet?
This is a question that draws me to threads like these.
I am amazed at how this dysfunctional mode of chatroom communication has leaked into so-called "real life" so that the students in my class insult each other and then act outraged -- OUTRAGED, I TELL YOU!!! -- at the possibility that someone could have a different opinion than them.
They act like they shouldn't ever have to see anything that they don't want to see at any time but should be allowed to say or do whatever they want whenever they want without facing the consequences for it.
I'm not saying that this is what Jade was doing. I've known 'The Jade' to be caring, honest, and responsible in his communications. There is a difference between saying "I don't like this and here's why" and name-calling, trollish behaviour over real or imagined slights. Jade doesn't do the latter.
|
I'm not saying that this is what Jade was doing. I've known 'The Jade' to be caring, honest, and responsible in his communications. There is a difference between saying "I don't like this and here's why" and name-calling, trollish behaviour over real or imagined slights. Jade doesn't do that.
He prefers to give wedgies.
(And I agree with you, TD.)
Or maybe that guy from Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels.
Righteous, Jade.
This is a question that draws me to threads like these.I am amazed at how this dysfunctional mode of chatroom communication has leaked into so-called "real life" so that the students in my class insult each other and then act outraged -- OUTRAGED, I TELL YOU!!! -- at the possibility that someone could have a different opinion than them.
They act like they shouldn't ever have to see anything that they don't want to see at any time but should be allowed to say or do whatever they want whenever they want without facing the consequences for it.
I'm not saying that this is what Jade was doing. I've known 'The Jade' to be caring, honest, and responsible in his communications. There is a difference between saying "I don't like this and here's why" and name-calling, trollish behaviour over real or imagined slights. Jade doesn't do that.
I appreciate that, Tarren.
Thanks, Jack and Trey as well.
We've got a great thing going here and I don't want to lose it.
I always thought it looked like Friar Illkickyerarse.Thanks a lot, Jade. Now I'll have that stuck in my head every time I try to read his insightful commentary.
Well then one step further. One other thing you can't see when you look at his avatar, Sebastian's right leg is a prosthetic. Only instead of using plastic and steel, he rents short young child actors and glues his nubby knee atop their pates. After a season or so, they grow too much and that smidgen of extra height puts him off balance and strains his spine, so he swaps them out quite regularly. Why use kids? Because he trains them to speak after everything he says.
"Whoa! Sebastian said your mama teeth so yellow, traffic slow down when the b!tch smile!"
He also likes when they toss peanuts up in the air so he can impress the ladies by catching them in his mouth just before his deal-sealing flirt wink.
"Whoa! Sebastian said your mama so stupid she got fired from the M&Ms factor for throwin' out all the W's!"
Okay, I may be out of the loop on something.
Is 'Sebastrd':
(a) a less polite alternate identity for Sebastian;
(b) Sebastian's stalker/worshipper;
(c) someone who thinks Sebastian's too tactful and needs to be shown how to say what he means;
or (d) Absolutely no relation?
(d) Absolutely no relation
My name actually is Sebastian, but I'm Sebastrd anywhere you find me on the internet.
Too much to quote…
I am definitely not adept at diplomacy. I tell it like it is and, yes, I’m proud of that (even if it is because I’m socially retarded). I don’t apologize for my harsh tone, nor do I apologize if anyone is offended by what I said. I definitely want to explain myself, though. Hopefully, if you understand where I’m coming from, you won’t find me so harsh or offensive.
I absolutely despise the perpetuation of ignorance that is rampant on the net. I get especially heated when it involves the current shenanigans with regard to the so-called “Edition Wars”. In my opinion, people should play what they enjoy and that’s no one’s business but theirs. I don’t understand the need some folks feel to constantly argue over which version is superior, because it’s a preference that’s completely subjective. I tend to ignore that crap and go on my merry way. It’s when people inevitably cite and perpetuate misinformation or make completely ignorant assumptions that my blood starts to boil. Case in point – the current thread.
This whole thread revolves around the assumption that someone at WotC designed an NPC with the intent to use his poorly run business and the term “grognard” pejoratively to mock Paizo, Pathfinder, Pathfinder RPG, Paizo fans, and anyone who prefers 3E. I see this whole mess as a bunch of people looking for an insult where there isn’t one, and it irritates me. I’m sick of seeing post after post on these boards bashing WotC, 4E, the 4E Realms, ect., when those doing the bashing obviously have no idea what they’re talking about. The 4E designers flat out said that they don’t even bother correcting misinformation because no one listens to them when they do.
Jade, none of what I said was specifically directed at you. Contrary to what you might think, I’m actually a very agreeable and open-minded person. I am fully capable of seeing things from another point of view if presented with a reasonable argument. Unfortunately, when it comes to discussions on the merits of one edition or the other, reasonable arguments are quite a rarity. For the record, I argue just as vehemently against ignorant 3E bashing.
Too much to quote…I am definitely not adept at diplomacy. I tell it like it is and, yes, I’m proud of that (even if it is because I’m socially retarded). I don’t apologize for my harsh tone, nor do I apologize if anyone is offended by what I said. I definitely want to explain myself, though. Hopefully, if you understand where I’m coming from, you won’t find me so harsh or offensive.
I absolutely despise the perpetuation of ignorance that is rampant on the net. I get especially heated when it involves the current shenanigans with regard to the so-called “Edition Wars”. In my opinion, people should play what they enjoy and that’s no one’s business but theirs. I don’t understand the need some folks feel to constantly argue over which version is superior, because it’s a preference that’s completely subjective. I tend to ignore that crap and go on my merry way. It’s when people inevitably cite and perpetuate misinformation or make completely ignorant assumptions that my blood starts to boil. Case in point – the current thread.
Why is it 'completely ignorant' to assume that wotc might be miffed at Paizo going their own way, and in a very real sense offering a true alternative to D&D players buying 4e?
That seems quite probable to me. Heck every single online poll I've seen shows at least a third (in many cases as much as half) of (D&D) players (customers) polled aren't going with 4e ... in a large part I suspect due to Paizo and others offering alternatives. I'd be furious (if I'd been so stupid as to make the mistakes wotc have) in wotc's shoes.
Then there's the question of whether in fact this particular (pretty minor) jokey jab is in fact a jokey jab. Hardly worth boiling your blood over. I'm completely sanguine about it myself. If wotc wants to stir up this kind of reaction by putting stuff on their website that could easily be (mis)read as a jab against disgruntled customers and breakaway tpps, then that's their error.
Allowing the gag npc to be posted on their site was as I said a bad idea on wotc part, however you cut it.
Feel free to go on your merry way though, old chap, no one's putting a gun to your head and making you read or respond to our 'crap'. ;-)
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
Too much to quote…I am definitely not adept at diplomacy.
Here's a diplomacy tip: honesty is often appreciated (though not always) but name-calling is generally not. :-)
EDIT: That's a freebie. For more, you'll have to sign up for "Tarren Dei's Online Course in Diplomacy" which includes popular lessons such as "Listening, not pretending to listen" and "Hyperbole: Friend or foe."
Why is it 'completely ignorant' to assume that wotc might be miffed at Paizo going their own way, and in a very real sense offering a true alternative to D&D players buying 4e?
I didn't say it was. Personally, I assume WotC is miffed. I also think they have no one to blame but themselves. They could have avoided Piazo becoming a competitor if they'd wanted to.
That seems quite probable to me. Heck every single online poll I've seen shows at least a third (in many cases as much as half) of (D&D) players (customers) polled aren't going with 4e ... in a large part I suspect due to Paizo and others offering alternatives.
Don't put too much stock in online polls.
Hardly worth boiling your blood over.
Like I said, it's the perpetuation of ignorance that boils my blood. I thought the joke was pretty funny, myself.
Why is it 'completely ignorant' to assume that wotc might be miffed at Paizo going their own way, and in a very real sense offering a true alternative to D&D players buying 4e?I didn't say it was. Personally, I assume WotC is miffed. I also think they have no one to blame but themselves. They could have avoided Piazo becoming a competitor if they'd wanted to.
That seems quite probable to me. Heck every single online poll I've seen shows at least a third (in many cases as much as half) of (D&D) players (customers) polled aren't going with 4e ... in a large part I suspect due to Paizo and others offering alternatives.Don't put too much stock in online polls.
Hardly worth boiling your blood over.Like I said, it's the perpetuation of ignorance that boils my blood. I thought the joke was pretty funny, myself.
So you agree it's likely wotc may well have their underwear in knots at the mo towards tpps, offering grognards, alternatives to buying and playing 4e. But you think it's absurd to assume a gag npc posted on the official wotc website afaics aimed at 'grognards' and implying ineptness and a general pig-headedness, is in any way a jab by wotc?
Re online polls ... I bet you would if they were more favourable towards 4e. End of the day, I have a lot of personal, anecdotal, evidence that tells me 4e ain't going to be a long term roaring success. The polls seem to back up what I'm hearing elsewhere. I could be wrong ... maybe people are buying and playing 4e in secret?
Too much to quote…I am definitely not adept at diplomacy. I tell it like it is and, yes, I’m proud of that (even if it is because I’m socially retarded). I don’t apologize for my harsh tone, nor do I apologize if anyone is offended by what I said. I definitely want to explain myself, though. Hopefully, if you understand where I’m coming from, you won’t find me so harsh or offensive.
I absolutely despise the perpetuation of ignorance that is rampant on the net. I get especially heated when it involves the current shenanigans with regard to the so-called “Edition Wars”. In my opinion, people should play what they enjoy and that’s no one’s business but theirs. I don’t understand the need some folks feel to constantly argue over which version is superior, because it’s a preference that’s completely subjective. I tend to ignore that crap and go on my merry way. It’s when people inevitably cite and perpetuate misinformation or make completely ignorant assumptions that my blood starts to boil. Case in point – the current thread.
This whole thread revolves around the assumption that someone at WotC designed an NPC with the intent to use his poorly run business and the term “grognard” pejoratively to mock Paizo, Pathfinder, Pathfinder RPG, Paizo fans, and anyone who prefers 3E. I see this whole mess as a bunch of people looking for an insult where there isn’t one, and it irritates me. I’m sick of seeing post after post on these boards bashing WotC, 4E, the 4E Realms, ect., when those doing the bashing obviously have no idea what they’re talking about. The 4E designers flat out said that they don’t even bother correcting misinformation because no one listens to them when they do.
Jade, none of what I said was specifically directed at you. Contrary to what you might think, I’m actually a very agreeable and open-minded person. I am fully capable of seeing things from another point of view if presented with a reasonable argument. Unfortunately, when it comes to discussions on the...
It's completely cool, brother.
Disagreeing on any of that stuff is fine by me. I just hope we can all have these conversations without resorting to personal put downs. Even if you're sick of seeing people post a certain way, you still need to temper your responses, because tempered responses make everything taste like magic. Please, still mention your agitation and frustration, just don't tell me my brain is the size of a toenail clipping in the process, because it is indeed that small and it hurts to hear. ;)
As far as can be ascertained from available figures, 4e has outsold the first year of 3.5, 3.0 and 2e, so yeah, i guess they're all being sold in secret (so secret it makes the new york times bestseller list).
Arguably that's somewhat like saying "Happy Feet" outperformed "Gone With the Wind" in terms of it's opening box office sales.
Once you adjust for inflation and figure that the price of the core rulebooks has increased, as well as the expanded audience for and availability of gaming products, it seems like it might be kind of a wash.
Ok, I freely admit I skipped pages 2,3, and 4 of posts....
But am I the only one here who watches Most Extreme Elimination Challenge? One of the two hosts (Kenny) often uses nard to refer to...ahem...gonads, in the singular.
I totally missed the grognard bit until it was pointed out....
The discussion was about sales figures (as in raw numbers of copies sold) not gross or net. Sales figures don't inflate so I fail to see how your post is relevant.
Arguably that's somewhat like saying "Happy Feet" outperformed "Gone With the Wind" in terms of it's opening box office sales.Once you adjust for inflation and figure that the price of the core rulebooks has increased, as well as the expanded audience for and availability of gaming products, it seems like it might be kind of a wash.
Oh my god! I offended the internet police. *scared*
I love that you make a general, unclear statement, and then when I state a harmless opinion, not even attacking you, you dismiss my relevance out of hand.
What did you do to be deemed more relevant than I, and where, Oh sir, is your badge number?
Edit: A quick check also "fails to see" any product of Wizards on the Times' Best Seller list, so perhaps you should check your post for "relevance", officer.
|
|
The discussion was about sales figures (as in raw numbers of copies sold) not gross or net. Sales figures don't inflate so I fail to see how your post is relevant.
Arguably that's somewhat like saying "Happy Feet" outperformed "Gone With the Wind" in terms of it's opening box office sales.Once you adjust for inflation and figure that the price of the core rulebooks has increased, as well as the expanded audience for and availability of gaming products, it seems like it might be kind of a wash.
Well, even if load of people buy the core books(and apparently they have), that doesn't mean that they are going to use them on a regular basis in the long run. If they buy them out just out of curiosity, or give it a try with much enthusiasm, and find the "magic" just isn't there, then they aren't going to be playing the game. Anectodal evidence seems to suggest that this phenomemnon is already happening with greater frequency than you would expect from a "new" edition. That means fans aren't going to be buying future adventures and splatbooks or recruiting new players to buy the core books and splatbooks. At that point it will become a failure, and the brand will be put on the back burner, sold, or they will try to introduce 5th edition way before the fans are ready for it. So, while 4E may be initially commercially sucessful, it's premature to say that it is a "sucess".
