Anyone using the Star Wars SAGA rules for anything other than Star Wars (or DnD-esque Fantasy, I am aware of some conversions on that front)? I am thinking about using it at somepoint for either a Barsoom style game or, more likely at this point, a steam-punk/airship game that would hi-light the ship mechanics of the sytem. Really wondering how well the rules stand up outside the given setting and how much work it is to convert.
Have you seen this setting?
It's got airships at it's core, have a peek. Savage Worlds is a wicked game system.
Have you seen this setting?
It's got airships at it's core, have a peek. Savage Worlds is a wicked game system.
Thanks. But I am not looking for a setting or another game. I have pleany of those. I am specifically looking for things that use the SAGA mechanics in different ways.
Drop the force and star wars name but keep the space combat stuff you'd have a good starship battles type of game. Add a class or two using D20Modern and you can use it for most games.
Anyone using the Star Wars SAGA rules for anything other than Star Wars (or DnD-esque Fantasy, I am aware of some conversions on that front)? I am thinking about using it at somepoint for either a Barsoom style game or, more likely at this point, a steam-punk/airship game that would hi-light the ship mechanics of the sytem. Really wondering how well the rules stand up outside the given setting and how much work it is to convert.
I've just finished a "Call Of Cthulhu"-esque conversion that I'm quite excited about:
http://www.gneech.com/uncanny/
Enjoy!
FWIW, I think it would do something along the lines you're talking about (sort of a "Crimson Skies"/"Sky Captain" kind of thing?) very well, and may bash that up myself sometime. (I was going to use d20 Modern to do a game like that, but got mired in mechanics, but the Saga Edition set is much cleaner and more elegant.)
-The Gneech
I just saw, and posted, into you thread on ENworld and was coming over here to share the link! Thanks Gneech.
I *believe* one of the authors talked about using Saga for a Crimson Skies game, which sounds very similar to what youre talking about, but now I can't find the link.
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Drop the force and star wars name but keep the space combat stuff you'd have a good starship battles type of game. Add a class or two using D20Modern and you can use it for most games.
There's actually a third party conversion floating around with SAGA-based d20 Modern rules.
I've also been working on building a Mass Effect setting using SAGA rules.
I *believe* one of the authors talked about using Saga for a Crimson Skies game, which sounds very similar to what youre talking about, but now I can't find the link.
I was thinking I had seen a reference to that on your blog, but couldn't find it myself.
Meanwhile I have been stating up a couple of Sci-Fi Noir 5th level PCs using Saga over at my grayalynn livejournal blog. Mainly just for fun. My group is doing well to play our normal DnD campaing two weeks running.
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I've actually been toying around with stripping SAGA down and using it to build a better D20 Modern. I haven't had the chance to get very far yet, but the idea was pretty simple: Rebalance the classes a bit, swap our almost all the talent trees and feats, and have each occupation give you access to one new talent tree.
As far as talents went, you'd have to make a few changes: strip out anything strictly sci-fi and replace some names. Also, add in some new trees based on things that aren't really emphasized in the sci-fi nature of a Star Wars game (for example, I turned the 3.5 Druid's abilities into the Naturalist talent tree: Wild Empathy opens up Animal Companion, Venom Immunity, and Woodland Step, which open up Trackless Step).
Converting SAGA isn't too hard to do once you pull out the Force.
The Crimson Skies reference might have been me, because that's one of the ideas I've been noodling around with.
-The Gneech
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BTW, Gneech, I really like your angle on Uncanny Midnight Tales.
I never played Cthulhu though I actually have the d20 Sourcebook. I was interested in the "no class" approach there and I'm wondering also on how well the "no class" model translates to SWSE rules. Have you playtested this yet?
Also, I thought it was interesting that you omitted Talents. I actually expected to see them in there. How come you deleted them?
Finally, Sanity's neat, too. I've only played one campaign with that quality involved (Ravenloft) and the DM did a good job of integrating it. I think I'd have to study Sanity more to really give any good feedback.
By all means, noodle away. I loved your horror/modern mysery translation of SAGA.
Thanks! :)
-TG
I never played Cthulhu though I actually have the d20 Sourcebook. I was interested in the "no class" approach there and I'm wondering also on how well the "no class" model translates to SWSE rules. Have you playtested this yet?
Also, I thought it was interesting that you omitted Talents. I actually expected to see them in there. How come you deleted them?
My first draft had a set of classes with talents, actually, but it ended up feeling too forced. From my LiveJournal...
Adventurer was the easiest, getting a mashup of talents from the Scout and Warrior classes, plus a "Combat Focus Talent Tree" that enables him to crank up his BAB.
Fixer gained a lot of the talents from the Rogue, plus a "Gumshoe Talent Tree" that has talents good for private eyes, such as "Licensed" and "Insightful Deduction."
Scholar, which I'm working on now, is a bit trickier. In S&S Saga scholar was a cross between a D&D bard and sorcerer; in a mystery/horror context a scholar is more like a doctor, professor, or antiquarian. So while he still gets the Lore and Priesthood Talent Trees (with some tweaking), I'm not sure what else to give them. I figure that the Adept and Hypnotism trees from S&S Saga should probably go to the Visionary, assuming that Hypnotism is left at all, and the Alchemist Talent Tree has no place at all. I suppose I could try some kind of a tree for Doctor/Psychologist types, giving them the ability to do surgery and whatnot. I'm not sure what to give them that would be more generally useful, tho — enhanced healing or the ability to mitigate SAN loss, maybe?
Socialite should be pretty easy, getting mostly stuff from the Noble and a bit of the Rogue's charming abilities.
Visionary will be tricky; I'm figuring they'll have some psychic abilities, as well as some enhanced senses or insight abilities. I was also thinking perhaps of what boils down to roughly a "Mad Science Talent Tree," although it would need a name change to fit the intended atmosphere better. (Prerequisite: SAN 30 or less?) I wonder if this might be better as a path for the Scholar, however. Was "Herbert West, Reanimator" a scholar, or a visionary? Tough call.
Followed later by...
I'm not really convinced that a d20 variant is the best way to go, especially not one that places as much emphasis on quirky class abilities as Saga Edition. While I don't care for the "classic" CoC rules, I do think that in a mystery/horror context there's a lot to be said for its more simplistic structure and old-school "roll the dice and deal with it" philosophy, particularly in regards to the emphasis it puts on individual skills. While I'm normally pretty anti-d100 systems in practice [1], I do love the nitty-gritty "feel" of being able to assign 60 skill points across a hundred different skills. I also think the relatively-static character development probably suits the genre better than the "quantum leaps in power" that levelling gets you.
So I've played around with a lot of different frameworks, trying to find one I was satisfied with. My first thought was to try to doctor CoC to fix the stuff I don't like about it, but once I got into it that ended up being almost a whole re-write of the system, which sorta negated the point. I also thought to trying to build a homebrew from scratch, but then I got bogged down in the "d100/d20/something else" quagmire.
So now I'm looking at what Monte Cook did with Cthulhu d20 and thinking about how I could translate that into a Saga-ized version. I'm thinking of dumping talents all together (possibly shifting some of the better ones into feats), changing feats so you get one every odd-numbered level, and letting players sort of "build their own" class by profession. So at first level, you would assign four points to defense score bonuses (i.e., "+3 Ref, +1 Will"), get training in, say, five skills plus your Int modifier, and pick three feats plus Weapon Proficiency (Simple). BAB would start at 1/2 your level, but more fighty-inclined types could spend a feat for +1 BAB. The base hit die for all classes would be d6, but you could take Increased Hit Die as a feat multiple times to get it up to d10. Then, to facilitate character creation, I'd write up a bunch of prefab templates, like:
ANTIQUARIAN
Defense Bonuses: +1 Ref, +3 Will
Trained Skills: Gather Information, Knowledge (Anthropology), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Occult), Knowledge (Religion), +Int modifier
Feats: Weapon Familiarity (Simple), Educated (lets you attempt any Knowledge check untrained), Decipher Script (lets you attempt to read an unknown language), WealthPOLICE DETECTIVE
Defense Bonuses: +2 Ref, +2 Fort
Trained Skills: Gather Information, Knowledge (Bureaucracy), Knowledge (Worldly), Perception, Security, +Int modifier
Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Simple, Common Firearms), Improved Hit Die (d8), +1 BAB (ranged)This loses some of the benefits of classes as a unifying mechanic, but hopefully will be a better overall structure for the kind of experience this game is intended to deliver.
Many of talents did actually make it in converted to feats. That was one of the reasons heroic characters get feats at every odd-numbered level, to make up for the loss of talents.
-The Gneech
I was thinking of converting saga to use in a swashbuckiling renessaince style campaign, so your s&s saga conversion is a godsend for a baseline work... :P