I'm wondering what sacred cows people slaughter in their own games?
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
The average roll of 11 smooths out the massive swing in results from round to round and really helps in balancing encounters. Only a few house rules were required like using the wound/vitality point system with crits dealing wound damage and some altered CRs but nothing too major.
In mine it's mainly the banning of a few choice items, PrC's, and spells.
Hopefully pathfinder will fix most of that anyway.
Once upon a time, we made a hybrid of 1st/2nd edition and Victory Games 007. Skill-based progression, no "classes," 2nd ed. D&D-based combat and magic.
Working on a similar skill-based hybrid for 3.5/Pathfinder.
None really. I do use fixed values for HP and ability scores, if you count that.
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Does it count if we've created a whole different system?
Let's see,
"Constitution" score = Hit Points
7 Ability scores (with more correct nomenclature) that act as Saves
Spells don't do tons of damage but are equally versatile
Skills done in a "level" system (gained through XP) instead of a "point" system
Players make their own "Class" with progressive Feats & Class Features
-W. E. Ray
I use a spell point system fused with the recharge variant, seems to work fairly well.
I slaughtered the ol' sacred cow for Fourth of July bar-bee-kyew last week. Made some damn good sacred hamburgers too.
Does that count? :P
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
I do that too. It's all about the bell curves. :-)
Other than that, a relatively big change is using hybrid classes for sustained multiclassing. If a player wants to play a gish, he gets part of the fighter benefits and part of the wizard benefits every level, for instance, rather than having to go back and forth between classes and switching to a PrC asap.
Does it count if we've created a whole different system?
Let's see,
"Constitution" score = Hit Points
7 Ability scores (with more correct nomenclature) that act as Saves
Spells don't do tons of damage but are equally versatile
Skills done in a "level" system (gained through XP) instead of a "point" system
Players make their own "Class" with progressive Feats & Class Features-W. E. Ray
Wouldn't say that counts. Sounds as if it's at least as far away from D&D as True20, rules-wise, maybe further.
"Constitution" score = Hit Points
7 Ability scores (with more correct nomenclature) that act as Saves
Spells don't do tons of damage but are equally versatile
Skills done in a "level" system (gained through XP) instead of a "point" system
Players make their own "Class" with progressive Feats & Class Features
Molech,
That sounds remarkably close to what I'm currently working on. Could I request a copy of your rules?egoldma (at) sbcglobal (dot) net
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how about the extinction of the drow?
"Well there used to be Drow, like HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED(yet written of in 1001 books...) but they're all dead now. Sorry, pick a new race"
My solution to this is simple.
Player: Can I play a drow?
ME: No. PHB races only. Rare exceptions on a case by case basis only.
If you don't set some limits, you end up with parties made up of drow, tieflings, and lizardfolk.
The first person to mention 4th edition in reference to my post gets their hat lit on fire.
You mean fou...erm... um...Planescape? Yeah, that's totally what I was gonna say before I feared total hat destruction. And I say no to races all the time, but only the Drow truly deserve a little DM inspired genocide.
They were kinda cool under Gygax in 1st edition, but after 2nd and 3rd edition Realms got through with them, i was hoping for a nice pandemic, planar rift, elven crusade, or 10.0 earthquake to erase the bad memories.
Kirth, um, how 'bout I just try to find time to sketch out the basics here (Oh, to only find the time)
If all you've got are handwritten notes on the backs of napkins, no worries.
I'd mainly be interested in your XP pricing scheme -- after untold numbers of Excel spreadsheets, I'm still having a problem getting mine to calibrate with the 3.5e standards (skills end up too expensive or too cheap, for example). Do you have a calibration curve, or are you just winging it?
For me mostly terms and Style. I started the debate over the name Fighter, don't use it, use Warrior.
Never really understood the great wheel, so I use the planes more like how Rifts handles dimesions. For my players it matters little, as they just get glassy eye when I speak of any cosmology.
I am adding Parry and Dodge rules from Conan along with Pathfinders CMB rules to the game. But I like to tweek things in my game so no Cow is ever safe, but the next game they might come back.
BYW as a side note, I heard that Wizards is going to do a setting a year with D'n'D now. I'd be intersted to see how they market Planescape.
"We at Wizards feel that what got in the way of fun in Planescape was the Planes so we've removed them from the game, so that now you can travel the planes without actually traveling the Planes. Please enjoy."
WOTC
Now thats a truly a dead cow.
BYW as a side note, I heard that Wizards is going to do a setting a year with D'n'D now. I'd be intersted to see how they market Planescape.
"We at Wizards feel that what got in the way of fun in Planescape was the Planes so we've removed them from the game, so that now you can travel the planes without actually traveling the Planes. Please enjoy."
WOTC
Now thats a truly a dead cow.
They not only changed the plans, the concept of the planes, and how they worked, but they merged Spelljammer with Planescape. Now you ride around on the Astral sea with a Astraljammer.
Edit: For the record, even though I was a super-fan of Planescape, I rarely think of the Great Wheel as being a sacred cow. Oddly, though, I think most of my players did since no matter the setting and no matter how often I said the Great Wheel does not apply to setting A, B, and C they would still think that it did. hm.
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
How do you roll a 1? (always a failure)
Players make their own "Class" with progressive Feats & Class Features
Anything like True20 or something different?
The only real sacred cow I've slaughtered is getting rid of experience points, but that particular blessed bovine has probably been killed more times than Jason and Freddy Kruger combined.
The only real sacred cow I've slaughtered is getting rid of experience points, but that particular blessed bovine has probably been killed more times than Jason and Freddy Kruger combined.
But slightly less than Rocky movies.
I'm wondering what sacred cows people slaughter in their own games?
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
The average roll of 11 smooths out the massive swing in results from round to round and really helps in balancing encounters. Only a few house rules were required like using the wound/vitality point system with crits dealing wound damage and some altered CRs but nothing too major.
This is an interesting idea... it makes it much harder to hit those marginal creatures though. Suddenly Weapon Focus and that extra plus on Magic Weapons becomes much more important. Also Two Weapon Fighting is a bigger penalty. Keen weapons and improved critical are much more valuable as well.
Sounds like its worked for you.
I killed the "every party must have a wizard and/or a cleric" cow by telling my players no spell-casting classes allowed.
I'm wondering what sacred cows people slaughter in their own games?
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
The average roll of 11 smooths out the massive swing in results from round to round and really helps in balancing encounters. Only a few house rules were required like using the wound/vitality point system with crits dealing wound damage and some altered CRs but nothing too major.
What do you do about crits and crit range? I suppose if you just wanted to keep roughly the same odds, 20/ crit range weapons would be 18-20 total roll (6%), 19-20/ would be 17-20 total on the roll (10%), and 18-20/ would be 16-20 on the roll (15%).
Of course then you've got Keen and improved Crit... assuming you don't let them stack.. 17-20/ (keen or imp. crit on a 19-20 weapon) could be 16-20 (21%), and 15-20/ (keen on an 18-20/ base weapon) could be 15-20 (26%)
Actually that's not bad, keeps you within 1% of the standard values the whole way. Hmmmm... I wonder if I can talk my group into this.
Contributor
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I also use 2d10 for one of my campaigns. a 2 is now an autofail, and I modified crit ranges slightly... mostly in that anything that increases your crit range only increases it by one, rather than doubling it.
I also use action points in that campaign and allow the action point roll to add to the base roll, so that PCs can cancel autofails and engineer crits when they need to.
The biggest problem with the system is that as level goes up, it exacerbates certain math problems in the game (even though it fixes others). Mainly, any creature that is outside of the regular CR parameters is more extremely out of CR than normal. Wimpy guys who almost never hit with a d20 hit even less often, and tough monsters with high ACs are almost impossible to hit with a fluke.
My hope was that my players would start using more strategic bonus management (use aid another etc.) but mostly they continue to power attack and hope for the best. Okay, that's an exaggeration, they are pretty good, they just don't use some of the tactics I would if I were them.
I'm guessing snake eyesMy group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.How do you roll a 1? (always a failure)
Ok, then how do you ever roll a 2?
True20 does it and it works just fine.
Yeah, I wondered why they did it in True20 and not M&M.
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The first person to mention 4th edition in reference to my post gets their hat lit on fire.
But it's my favorite part of my outfit!
I don't really mess with the sacred cows. Even Vancian magic has enough alternatives in game to really not merit playing with. The closest to a dead cow would be the spiked chain, and I don't believe it existed until 3rd edition (although it somehow made it into both Pathfinder and 4E).
Yeah, I wondered why they did it in True20 and not M&M.
Didn't M&M come out way ahead of True20? Maybe it wasn't such an obvious thing when they did that system.
Didn't M&M come out way ahead of True20?
Wait... Eminem is a gamer?
I ditched XP too, just gave levels when the going started getting rough, or the story dictated it.
Dumped xp for item creation, required "special" i.e. questing components for creation.
Allowed players to take 2 item creation feats for the price of 1, as they were always viewed as a wasted feat.
all the raise dead type spells require a feat (thank you Dragon magazine!)
No more permanent ability score/level loss
was using "minions" 10 years ago to keep things rolling along faster.
Dumped the great wheel, all planes are pancaked next to each other, squished between the positive and negative energy planes. All the "fantastic" locations are merely pocket dimensions created by uber-beings in charge of them.
my personal favorite...Dragon scale type means absolutely nothing with regards to alignment...seeing my meta gaming party TPK'ed by the CE gold dragon was priceless.
Coming soon...dwarves being banned from owning blacksmithing shops, joining gnomes who've been locked away from the alchemical labs.
BTW...anyone else ever use the "dwarven ale that comes inside a solid stone that once cracked open melts a hole in the bar before nearly killing stupid PC who drinks it anyway?"
I see that one all the time, and for the life of me, cannot remember where I came up with it.
LOL! and Drow...sigh...makes me wanna pull my Talislanta books out again. NO ELVES!
Well - do classes count? Some of the settings dump standardized races, skills, and/or experience points as well.
...seeing my meta gaming party TPK'ed by the CE gold dragon was priceless.
Yay you!
Alignment f~#*s up mechanics-Dead
Vanacian Casting-Beat to death, hanged, beaten again, set on fire, dipped in a pool of acid, then tiberium nuked. Use Spell Point System
Skill System-Dead, use Star WArs SAGA's instead
The Planes-Dead, replaced with something better
Craft-Dead
Perform-Not dead but trying to find a way to kill it without gimping Bard
Paladins and Monks must be LG-So beyond dead not even Death herself would recognize it
how about the extinction of the drow?
"Well there used to be Drow, like HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED(yet written of in 1001 books...) but they're all dead now. Sorry, pick a new race"
My solution to this is simple.
Player: Can I play a drow?
ME: No. PHB races only. Rare exceptions on a case by case basis only.
If you don't set some limits, you end up with parties made up of drow, tieflings, and lizardfolk.
The first person to mention 4th edition in reference to my post gets their hat lit on fire.
*tries to think of witty 4e reference but fails due to lack of sleep*
Forgotten Realms-Beat to death, hanged, beaten again, set on fire, dipped in a pool of acid, then tiberium nuked.
Fixed that for you.
Paladins and Monks must be LG-So beyond dead not even Death herself would recognize it
Monks don't have to be LG, you know.
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Does giving sacred cows hot steaming injections of Bovine Growth Hormone count too?
If so, I have currently:
The Planes-Dead, replaced with something better
Craft-Dead
This I'd be very interested in seeing.
Does giving sacred cows hot steaming injections of Bovine Growth Hormone count too?
"mooooooOOooooOOooo" :-)
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This I'd be very interested in seeing.The Planes-Dead, replaced with something better
Craft-Dead
The Planes-Dead sounds like a new monster template.
Craft-Dead sounds like a PC way of justifying murder through the use of a class skill. "No, really, my Jack the Ripper character has 5 ranks in Craft (Dead), so he gets a +2 bonus on all sneak attack damage!"
This I'd be very interested in seeing.The Planes-Dead, replaced with something better
Craft-Dead
Wild parties get thrown, you knock back a couple of drinks, next thing ya know you're in your basement sewing togther corpses for some crazy plot for world domination.
KaeYoss- Ha ha ha on the first one, can ya belive I actually like FR? Okay read it not play it but whatever. And on the second one you know what I meant.
I'm wondering what sacred cows people slaughter in their own games?
My group has ditched the D20 and switched to 2D10.
The average roll of 11 smooths out the massive swing in results from round to round and really helps in balancing encounters. Only a few house rules were required like using the wound/vitality point system with crits dealing wound damage and some altered CRs but nothing too major.
What do you do about crits and crit range? I suppose if you just wanted to keep roughly the same odds, 20/ crit range weapons would be 18-20 total roll (6%), 19-20/ would be 17-20 total on the roll (10%), and 18-20/ would be 16-20 on the roll (15%).
Of course then you've got Keen and improved Crit... assuming you don't let them stack.. 17-20/ (keen or imp. crit on a 19-20 weapon) could be 16-20 (21%), and 15-20/ (keen on an 18-20/ base weapon) could be 15-20 (26%)
Actually that's not bad, keeps you within 1% of the standard values the whole way. Hmmmm... I wonder if I can talk my group into this.
If you want roughly the same chances of rolling auto-hits, auto-misses and crits, all it takes is a little math.
When rolling 1d20, you have a 5% chance of rolling a natural 20. Same for a natural 1. When rolling 2d10, you have 1% chance of rolling a 20 (2) and a 2% chance of rolling a 19 (3). IOW, a 3% chance of rolling 19 or more (3 or less). If you take the threshold to 18 (4), it becomes 6%. That's as close to 5% as you're going to get without getting fancy, so that's what I use: 18 or higher is an auto-hit, 4 or less is an auto-miss.
Threat ranges work the same way: a 19-20 threat range on 1d20 equals a 10% chance. 17 or higher with d10 also equals a 10% chance, so they match. 18-20 on 1d20 equals 15%, 16 or higher on 2d10 also equals 15%. Another match.
And so on. It won't always match exactly (in fact, the increases will go up), but you can get things close enough. The upside is that rolls will end up close to average more often than to extremes. At least, I consider that an upside.
This has also been explained in UA.
