Arkham Horror board game

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

So we got this and have played a number of times now. We usually have four players and that seems to be a pretty strong number. My biggest complaint is that we keep winning. Now honestly I'm not interested in VP at the win element and none of the other players are either - either we win and save the world or we don't. That said most of us where expecting a harder game then we seem to have. Especially because it often seems like the best strategy is pretty much 'get those gates sealed pronto' right near the beginning and most of our victories never felt like a challenge - the bad guys never really got anything going before we shut them down.

My question is: what expansion should we buy to make this a bit harder so that we loose more games?

[ithuriel]

You know- our first few games we were winning a lot until I started reading the rules more carefully. Then it got a hell of a lot harder.

As far as closing all the gates, yeah you would have an easier time doing that with 4 players compared to our 2, but you need every gate closed and 4 gate trophies in hand to win that way. It seems like you'd have to get lucky to win that way frequently.

Everyone moves directly into a gate on their turn, by chance being close enough to do so quickly and having no monsters to oppose them or managing to evade them all.

Then each person inside a gate needs 2 turns to move through the otherworld and another one to close the gate before he can potentially do anything else. It could potentially happen faster, slower, or not at all based on the cards drawn, but is mostr likely to take the normal 3 turns. Meanwhile new gates are opening.

Not every investigator is well suited to closing every gate. It uses the straight Fight or Lore score on the investigator card without modifiers other than Skills or Allies that grant direct increases to those scores. Ry'leh is -3. Most investigators will only have 2 or 3 dice to attempt the roll. Failure will require more turns trying again.

Best case scenario, assuming nothing goes against you the 7th turn is the fastest 4 players could close 4 gates. By that time it is likely that 7 gates have opened on the board, so you have to start over, chasing down the new ones.

During our first few games we had missed the detail that during the battle with the ancient one, removing a token requires a success for each investigator. We were pulling them 1 for 1, and thinking we were pretty tough with our tommy guns or whatever. Then once we reread and fought another we said, "Oh no..."

As far as your original question, Innsmouth will make your gate closing strategy significantly more difficult. More gates on a second smaller city board, some of which require renting a boat to get to and having another player come and meet you for return transport (unless you play the sailor). Also has gate burst cards which rip open sealed ones.

[James Keegan]

With 5 players I think you have the highest difficulty: more monsters out, more sealed gates required but only 1 more player. We wound up just running Kate Winthrop as a group character and parking her in different spots to keep gates from opening, though that may have swung things too far in our favor.

[Charles Evans 25]

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

So we got this and have played a number of times now. We usually have four players and that seems to be a pretty strong number. My biggest complaint is that we keep winning. Now honestly I'm not interested in VP at the win element and none of the other players are either - either we win and save the world or we don't. That said most of us where expecting a harder game then we seem to have. Especially because it often seems like the best strategy is pretty much 'get those gates sealed pronto' right near the beginning and most of our victories never felt like a challenge - the bad guys never really got anything going before we shut them down.

My question is: what expansion should we buy to make this a bit harder so that we loose more games?

I don't know that there is a 'bit' harder expansion for Arkham Horror. If you want a challenge have you tried playing with only investigators with (maximum) Speed 3? There's Barnes, Fern, Lee, Pete, and Walters in the basic set, and when it takes an investigator three turns* to get from The Woods to Independence Square, suddenly things can get much trickier...

Edit:
* Sorry, I'm assuming you have to do something like stop and remove at least one inconvenient monster along the way there which prevents most optimal travel.

[Charles Evans 25]

Just checked by the FFG site for the first time in a while, and apparently they're building a substantial revision of the Curse of the Dark Pharaoh expansion. Also apparently a 'support package' box, The Miskatonic Horror, intended to provide extra cards for all the expansions may be in the works...

[Auxmaulous]

Picked up the Miskatonic Horror box over the weekend, plenty of extra cards for each expansion and set of important replacement cards (Acts) for the King in Yellow.

I like it, don't get me wrong - but it would have been nice to see a few more "replacement cards" from previous sets where a card may not be clear on an issue.

Overall a must buy for anyone that runs the expansions, organizing it is a bit of a pain but they have something for every set, with many set/expansion combo cards (that is where the organization gets messy) for specific expansion set ups.

Ex- they will have Outer World and location cards for Dunwich Horror (which can just be folded into that expansions set of cards), and then several (many) cards with Dunwich/Kingsport, Dunwich/CoDP, Dunwich/Lurker at the Threshold, etc. So these last cards can only be used if certain sets are used in combination with each other - since I don't mix everything into one super-set it does create a sorting challenge. And then if I am going to combo up a board and expansion I need to make sure to pull the 5-15 sets of specific combo cards that would go for those two combined sets. So yeah, a bit of tagging and organization required - not a big deal and worthwhile if you are looking for cards that seamlessly mesh Curse of the Dark Pharaoh and Dunwich Horror (with CoTDP cards/theme popping up in Dunwich locations).

Not a bad purchase, but can be avoided if you only have a few expansions. The player reference cards are a great tool, they list (by number of players) the monster limits, gate limits, outskirts for that particular game, an excellent and handy tool. The institution variant is great, going to use as guideline for a S.A.V.E Institution (based on the Chill RPG) using the Strange Eons software.

Again a good buy for anyone with all the sets, but if you are missing a few expansions I would consider picking those up instead as you will find limited use for this set. Each missing expansion diminishes the use of this set considerably (since the cards cannot be used).

[Charles Evans 25]

Revised Curse of the Dark Pharaoh and Miskatonic Horror now on UK games store shelves (at least here in Birmingham).

Uggh. Curse of the Dark Pharaoh was previously the expansion which was the first 'go to' if you wanted an easier ride. The revised version is just more of the same 'things are harder, you're more likely to lose, etc, etc, etc', and I consider that The Messenger (Ally) has been revised and reduced to being probably the single least useful ostensibly 'helpful' investigator cards in the game. -1 to all skill checks????? Oh, and an ability which means if the investigator gets devoured (no doubt as a result of failing a lot more skill checks) a paltry two doom tokens are removed as recompense? Two doom tokens is scarcely adequate in most circumsstances for the inconvenience of losing an investigator, all their gear, all their clue tokens and (often) the position they were in in terms of location on the board. Yes, this could see some use in very specific case combination play (Silas Marsh's story card, for example) but the fact that it needs such combinations as that to even look remotely useful is a pretty harsh indictment of the card...
I like the Ancient Whispers mechanic, which allows for better access to Exhibit Items with multiple expansions in play, but that's about the only thing I do like about the revised Curse of the Dark Pharaoh over the original.

Still looking over Miskatonic Horror. It looks to me like an attempt to fill in some of the obvious gaps in earlier expansions. Looks heavily dependent for content seeing use on being used with at least one other expansion - preferably one or more of the 'board' ones (Dunwich/Kingsport/Innsmouth). I think FFG missed a massive opportunity though in not releasing any Tasks/Missions that take investigators across multiple boards. Tasks/Missions was one mechanic Dunwich Horrorintroduced which I thought didn't see anywhere near enough development/use in Dunwich Horror and hasn't been seen again since.
Hmm. No overall opinion yet on Miskatonic Horror.

[Auxmaulous]

I do agree with the "missed opportunity" aspect of MH. Considering its very unique place as a bridge between sets and expansions they should have done more (more than mixed set cards) to support each set. The guys I game with love tasks but hate missions, and as a unique item (and in mid or late game) they kinda blow. I like them and I think your idea of forcing people to hit expansion boards via tasks/missions is a good idea.

The only time people would head up to Dunwich is to close a gate, no incentive to stick around when everything is on the main board. I would have liked more reasons to get people to other places. A few more Institution cards would have been nice, maybe even expansion specific Institutions that would get people to explore more dangerous areas with a better risk/reward paradigm.

[Charles Evans 25]

On the mission front, I find a couple of them are vaguely useful and affordable in terms of the sacrifices called for, but the others are just awful, and it really sucks to draw them as a unique item after making some difficult skill check in an encounter, say.
I agree on the lack of incentive for the Dunwich board, although since monsters on it don't count for monster limit purposes you can sometimes use it to attract monsters from the sky, by sticking a low Sneak investigator out on the Dunwich streets. The Kingsport and Innsmouth expansions did much better in terms of offering reasons for investigators to use/explore the boards.

I've had a longer look at Miskatonic now, and am vaguely disappointed by it over all. Whereas previous expansions offered new mechanics/features, such as Rifts & Epic battles, Dark Pacts, or the Deep Ones Rising track, I have trouble identifying anything new in Miskatonic Horror. The closest it gets is the Epic battle new slant, but that's dependent on the use already of the Kinsport Horror expansion. The institutions may as well be Guardians in different clothing.
Maybe they were going to make more of the expeditions aspect of the Miskatonic University, but abandoned it for some reason...

[Jteichro]

Tough at times, easy at others, always a thrill with out group. By tough I mean impossible! Just keep playing it and the rules will get easier.

[Charles Evans 25]

Hmmm. One of the few new things Miskatonic Horror does do, which I missed, was that some of the Dark Pharaoh allies can in theory show up in encounters on expansion boards. That's assuming that they haven't been returned to the box as part of the revised allies rules. Sadly, Dark Pharaoh allies seem to be the only ones doing this I've noticed thus far. No Professor Morgan showing up in Dunwich in a Kingsport/Dunwich game (which might have made sense) or even Professor Armitage appearing in the odd Dunwich encounter.

Institutions seem a mixed bag. Organized Crime pretty useful, Miskatonic University only useful with a large team of investigators (and monster trophies from surges to spare).
Bureau almost useless. At two clues to put an agent token on the street (and ONLY on the street - not in locations where monsters tend to stack up on gates where a pile of agents would be useful) there are better things to do with clues. Like kill monsters. Or simply evade them. Still, playing with [board] expansions, since step 5a where institutions come into play occurs before step 6 where the decks are sorted out, if I understand correctly, the Bureau as an institution means you can load expansion boards right from the start of the game, with allies who would otherwise have been returned to the box in step 6 of setup...

[Charles Evans 25]

[mini-grumble] On a separate note, I have been reminded of how spectacularly useless the unique item 'Alien Statue' is, except as a card for discard by the investigator holding it. A copy of 'The King in Yellow' will give an investigator with a halfway decent Lore score twice as many clues for fewer movement points at no Stamina risk in one go. And let's not even go into the fact that 'Old Journal' doesn't even come with a sanity cost normally... [/mini-grumble]

[Charles Evans 25]

Miskatonic Horror mythos cards are disgusting. Especially when you're playing with the Kingsport or Innsmouth board and get the headline which puts a monster in every aquatic location. Urggh.

[Auxmaulous]

Me and my group of players have regularly been trouncing the base game plus a small box expansion. A few weeks ago we had a chance to play a longer session at a game store and added the Kingsport board - got destroyed and I had lost two, count'm two players in that session. First was in a fight I got into (way over my head - devoured) and then my mid-game replacement character getting devoured when the GOO woke up.

We got our asses handed us to. That is why I love this game, just trying to find a good sweet spot on additions/expansions that give a more of even game play (cake walk vs. being overrun).

I am working on my own expansions using Strange Eons - so far I have a traditional horror/Sahwin/Halloween type expansion - new herald, GOO and creatures (don't want to make cards). Some fun creatures like the Headless horsemen, hellhounds, spring heeled jack, Gasman and things of that nature.

Currently working on a new Curse of Yig mini expansion - will make some Serpent men sorcerers, Greater Serpent men, giant snakes and a few other weird encounters. A new mechanic which gives players poison counters that don't heal easy (sum total of health and san in cumulative poison counters and you are devoured). I'm looking to make Yig a bit tougher and addresses play styles (one player milling for elder signs, etc) while still keeping Yig a 10 point GOO.

[Charles Evans 25]

Auxmaulous wrote:

Me and my group of players have regularly been trouncing the base game plus a small box expansion. A few weeks ago we had a chance to play a longer session at a game store and added the Kingsport board - got destroyed and I had lost two, count'm two players in that session. First was in a fight I got into (way over my head - devoured) and then my mid-game replacement character getting devoured when the GOO woke up.

We got our asses handed us to. That is why I love this game, just trying to find a good sweet spot on additions/expansions that give a more of even game play (cake walk vs. being overrun).

I am working on my own expansions using Strange Eons - so far I have a traditional horror/Sahwin/Halloween type expansion - new herald, GOO and creatures (don't want to make cards). Some fun creatures like the Headless horsemen, hellhounds, spring heeled jack, Gasman and things of that nature.

Currently working on a new Curse of Yig mini expansion - will make some Serpent men sorcerers, Greater Serpent men, giant snakes and a few other weird encounters. A new mechanic which gives players poison counters that don't heal easy (sum total of health and san in cumulative poison counters and you are devoured). I'm looking to make Yig a bit tougher and addresses play styles (one player milling for elder signs, etc) while still keeping Yig a 10 point GOO.

Take the Elder Signs out of the deck. Can't mill for them if they're not there! Either that or put a crippling movement limit on every Elder Sign - it's impossible (no matter how many times it changes hands) for one to move more than a total of two neighbourhoods + locations in one turn, and any investigator carrying an elder sign can't cast find gate.

Edit:
No using Carcosan Page (from The King in Yellow expansion) to teleport Elder Signs around either!

[Charles Evans 25]

Oh yes, and can I just add how much I hate Rhan-Tegoth. Not because it's difficult to win against he/she/it, but because those cultists show up at the most inconvenient times, pushing the terror track way ahead of where it should be, effectively costing 'victory points', and causing investigators who otherwise have perfectly simple story 'targets' (from Innsmouth Horror) to fail them. Ursula Downs recently succombed in a Rhan-Tegoth game after a third cultist showed up inside the first half dozen turns whilst she was still frantically looking for a third monster within movement range to kill, causing her to fail 'The Caper' and acquire a curse. And then Ursula being down and having a curse caused other problems and failures.
Oh yes, Rhan-Tegoth still lost in the end, but the process of getting there was somewhat messier than it should have been, had the terror level not gone up quite so fast quite so early.