This whole "character roles" idea, while perfectly valid from a munchkin perspective, is complete and utter bunk in a role-playing game. Why would I want to play when WotC has apparently already predetermined what my character OUGHT to do based on their class? It's true that all characters serve some role in the party, but the idea of them straight up defining it in black and white like this makes me a little uneasy.
Yeah, it's that crappy roles mentality that leads to things like Nobody Wants to Play the Cleric syndrome. Why should there even have to BE a Cleric? Why can't the whole party be Sorcerors or Druids if that's what the players want? I too don't like the idea of being told that a team of adventurers has to have a certain make-up to survive.
One of the big things I love about D&D is that it's one of the few things in my life that is non-competitive. If I cared about the party being "effective" I'd play WoW.
I mentioned in the 4e Supporters thread a concern for the game becoming too combat-focused--this mention of defined roles is actually what triggered that concern. At the end of the day, if all my players want to go with bards and monks, I want a game system flexible enough to handle that...
I am not surprised to see their site go down since their site is usually hit or miss anyway (you can find at least one thing a week that is broken on that site, especially main/focus/important front page articles). My impression is that the IT team is possibly overworked but much more likely just poorly managed. I don't know how many IT teams/departments I have heard of that were managed by someone with an unrelated degree and little understanding of or experience in project management (accounting/psychology? give me a break, at least get someone with a math or engineering background).
I don't know how many IT teams/departments I have heard of that were managed by someone with an unrelated degree and little understanding of or experience in project management (accounting/psychology? give me a break, at least get someone with a math or engineering background).
I once tried to find out what sort of qualifications our Human Resources team have. After a bunch of evasive answers it turns out that the people in charge of hiring, firing and managing everyone have less qualifications than I do, and I only have a Bachelor of Arts. It's fair enough, I mean I guess there's no degree for Cutting Corners Everywhere Else While Awarding Yourself A Massive Pay Rise.
Yeah, it's that crappy roles mentality that leads to things like Nobody Wants to Play the Cleric syndrome. Why should there even have to BE a Cleric? Why can't the whole party be Sorcerors or Druids if that's what the players want? I too don't like the idea of being told that a team of adventurers has to have a certain make-up to survive.
One of the big things I love about D&D is that it's one of the few things in my life that is non-competitive. If I cared about the party being "effective" I'd play WoW.
I couldn't agree with you more.
FFXI this most certainly is not.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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One of the big things I love about D&D is that it's one of the few things in my life that is non-competitive. If I cared about the party being "effective" I'd play WoW.
I like the idea quite a lot myself. It's how I think teams should work. It's like the X-men, each member has something that they contribute to the team which makes it stronger than the sum of its parts. One thing I don't like about classless systems is that the various team roles aren't as sharply defined; you generally get a bunch of characters who are okay at a bunch of things but very good at nothing.
I'm also hoping (and expecting) that there will be more than one role for each class. Ideally, you would have the tools to customize your rogue to be a front line fighter, a skills focused scout, or a ranged death machine. These tools exist in the current definition, but my expectation is that they will be more clearly labeled and accessible in 4e.
That being said, I'm sure the rules will not stop you from building an ineffective character if that's your bag.
Edit: Also, anyone else think it's the cleric they're talking about when they say that some of the current classes are not sexy enough?
Edit: Also, anyone else think it's the cleric they're talking about when they say that some of the current classes are not sexy enough?
My first thought was bard.
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my biggest question is what if anything will happen to prestige classes in 4.x? if the core classes are going to be so kicka$$, what is the point going beyond the core classes? also brings up a a few other question namely: whats going to be core? are we going to see any of the classes that showed up in the complete series as core classes?
I also wonder about AC and how it will be handled? will be anything like SW saga ed?
I like the idea quite a lot myself. It's how I think teams should work. It's like the X-men, each member has something that they contribute to the team which makes it stronger than the sum of its parts. One thing I don't like about classless systems is that the various team roles aren't as sharply defined; you generally get a bunch of characters who are okay at a bunch of things but very good at nothing.
I'm also hoping (and expecting) that there will be more than one role for each class. Ideally, you would have the tools to customize your rogue to be a front line fighter, a skills focused scout, or a ranged death machine. These tools exist in the current definition, but my expectation is that they will be more clearly labeled and accessible in 4e.
That being said, I'm sure the rules will not stop you from building an ineffective character if that's your bag.
Ha ha. I get what you mean, but what I meant was not so much ineffective individual characters (I like being kick-ass as much as the next guy) but the idea that a team has to have a certain make-up or everyone will die. That just means everybody is being railroaded because someone has to be the caster, the fighter or the healer whether anyone wants to or not.
I like the idea of PCs who are all able to do everything if they want, but the fighter is a better fighter than anyone else, the wizard is a better caster, etc. It's more in keeping with movies and heroic fiction in general. Sort of a bunch of heroes, each with a particular talent they may be famous for, rather than 4 click-together Voltron robots each with an over-specialized function who are useless unless someone else plays another specialization to cover their weakness. I mean I know that will always be in the rules (and real life too) to an extent, but I think it's better to minimize it than to build it in.
Edit: Also, anyone else think it's the cleric they're talking about when they say that some of the current classes are not sexy enough?
Yep. And it's about time they noticed...
I am starting to look forward to this. Anyone else?
Of course they may fail to change the stuff that sucks (skill outshadowed by rolls/lame classes/dumb shit)
Rogue is a martial class? Does this mean they are getting rid of the idea of the "skilled" character entirely? If they do away with bards I'm so not going to play 4e!
I must say, the stuff that's been posted makes 4e sound like it's all about munchkinizing your character. Having something new at every level is a good thing. Simplifying the basic rules that you use all the time (e.g. grappling) is good. Reducing the amount of game focus on getting the right set of magical trinkets and buffs in place is admirable. But what makes the game fun is its flexibility and potential for imaginative roleplaying. I'm concerned that putting everything online will reduce the possibilities for imagining different ways to play the game. And, frankly, I don't need a frickin' paper doll to drag and drop armor onto. I can imagine what my character looks like in my head and describe him in words, and since I learned how to do arithmetic before the age of the calculator (yes, I'm an old fart), I can figure out the difference in AC between a breastplate and a chain shirt as quick as the computer can. Quicker, if the WotC server debacle of today is any indication of things to come. Anyway, if I create a new spell or a new magic item, will there be a way to input that? And will your computer program generate a character sheet that fits on one page, or will I have to read a tome instead of having everything organized the way I want it, in shorthand, right where I wrote it? Meh, I like pencil and paper, thank you very much. And to be honest, I don't think the kids are as computer-savvy as they are supposed to be. I know mine sure ain't.
This may be premature, but I'm guessing from the hints in what has been posted here that:
1) gnomes will no longer be a core race
2) bards will no longer be a core class
3) the Vancian magic system will be ditched in favor of something more . . . Jordanian? (I.e. more like the current psionics system, or maybe a variation on the system that spontaneous casters use in the current edition).
4) the game will be even more high-powered than it is now--if you get a new power every level, by level 30 you'll be pretty damn epic. (Even by level 15!)
5) demon lords and beings of like power level will return to the core monster manual.
Harrumph. I'm not saying I'll never play 4e, but I'm going to join the Eltanin 3e Rulebook Recycling Project and stick with 3.5, at least in my DMing endeavors. Revealing my tree-hugger hippy roots, I guess. I need 4e about as much as I need Vista. (And it should be officially noted here that I still run MS Word 2000 on my computer, which is older than my 3.5e rulebooks. And I finally junked my 1988 Mitsubishi pickup last year, and still kind of regret it. I prefer to keep things that work rather than replace them with things that are supposed to "work better." Call me a Luddite.)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Caught wind that the new rules will be so incompatible that WotC won't try to convert old books. By my count, there are at least 54 rules-centric (not setting specific, in otherwords) hardcovers for 3rd edition. That's a lot of wasted paper on your bookshelf if you jump on the bandwagon.
What I would really like to see is that the new edition could be backwards compatible. I wouldn't mind using a new edition if it was an improvement on the old, but I'd want to use it easily if not seamlessly with my old adventures and Dungeon magazines(kind of like how you can play Gamecube games on a Wii or 3.5 with 3.0 adventures with little changes). I know WOTC has to stay with the times and a good way to make money is to change the way the product works so you make the people get the new and improved version but I am whole heartily against coming out with new version just for the sake of making money(I.E. new textbooks- change the picture from page 81 to 82 you have a new edition). Plus I'm a little mad that I bought the box set of 3.5 rulebooks last month, if I would have known I'd have at least kept my receipt.
My bottom line: if 4e makes me as excited about the game as 3e did, I'm all over it like sand on a beach.
Edit: Also, anyone else think it's the cleric they're talking about when they say that some of the current classes are not sexy enough?
I was thinking Paladin.
Unless you consider "whiny b&+&@ fest about how it should be played" as sexy... Besides, it just screams "supplement, so we can detail all the different Paladins, for each Deity."
That and the traditional Wizard. Although, with the Resource Management Overhaul, they might consider it sexy again...
And then there is the Ranger... While I am fond of the 3.5 revamp, the fact they felt it needed a revamp tells me they didn't think it was sexy before. Combine that with the fact that I like it just means it has to go.
And lets not forget - no more Fighter. At least not how we are used to seeing them. So that alone might qualify.
EDIT::
What I would really like to see is that the new edition could be backwards compatible.
We are already pretty sure it won't be. At least not easily.
Completely different model for a fighter. Different level progressions, if not rate. Resources regained over time as opposed to once a day.
Makes any kind of conversions difficult at best. As a completely hypothetical example, a 3.5 module written for 1st to 5th level characters might only be good for 1st level 4th Edition characters.
Of course, we need to see the exact changes involved... But there is a pretty good reason that WoTC strongly suggests starting a whole new campaign when 4th Edition is released.
I was thinking Paladin.Unless you consider "whiny b&~*~ fest about how it should be played" as sexy... Besides, it just screams "supplement, so we can detail all the different Paladins, for each Deity."
You still on that? Hehe. No I don't want to quarrel.
By the way, did you see this:
"A paladin need not devote herself to a single deity--devotion to righteousness is enough." (PHB 43, Special ed. 2004)
If 4E is essentially classless with modular class features (with the traditional base classes provided as quick play examples) I'll be happy. Otherwise I guess I'm in the grumpy old man camp with pretty much everyone else here.
Classes RPGs and templates. Gods! The crunching of numbers. It's Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition via the accounting department.
The bean-counters now run the game. There goes my dream of opening an RPG store here in Las Vegas.
The End of Nigh for Dungeons and Dragons true believers.
:::Shudders::::
Harrumph. I'm not saying I'll never play 4e, but I'm going to join the Eltanin 3e Rulebook Recycling Project and stick with 3.5, at least in my DMing endeavors. Revealing my tree-hugger hippy roots, I guess. I need 4e about as much as I need Vista. (And it should be officially noted here that I still run MS Word 2000 on my computer, which is older than my 3.5e rulebooks. And I finally junked my 1988 Mitsubishi pickup last year, and still kind of regret it. I prefer to keep things that work rather than replace them with things that are supposed to "work better." Call me a Luddite.)
Luddite? You too huh? I still use Windows 98 or XP. I dread using Vista as mucha s I dread using 4E.
Well, just to throw in some more speculation: The bard as class could be thrown out - if the other classes allow a more modular build anyway, what´s the point of having a "jack-of-all-trades" class ?
As for the cleric: It is one of the foundations of the game that there are arcane and divine spellcasters, however these are called. So, I guess we will see both of these in the future. I don´t think of the cleric as "not sexy" - although I would like to see some modifications to individualize them more.
Stefan
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Well, just to throw in some more speculation: The bard as class could be thrown out - if the other classes allow a more modular build anyway, what´s the point of having a "jack-of-all-trades" class ?
As for the cleric: It is one of the foundations of the game that there are arcane and divine spellcasters, however these are called. So, I guess we will see both of these in the future. I don´t think of the cleric as "not sexy" - although I would like to see some modifications to individualize them more.
Stefan
then again mayhaps we will see a bard that is more magic based as its considered an arcane caster in 3.5......it would make some sense that if they still wanted to keep a bard class to go this route while removing the skill oriented quality of the class....
I'm of the opinion that these professional designers, who spend all their time thinking about and working on these games, will want to make something excellent - and have a good chance of doing it, particularly when backed up with WotC's clout. So I'm cautiously optimistic, and keen to find out more.
I do hope those book covers aren't the final versions, though - they look dreadful. If that's an example of 4E's state-of-the-art design, then I'm a little worried...
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Not only is this the fastest I've ever seen a thread run to more than 500 responses, but this is hilarious, given the circumstances...
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I'm gonna go ahead and write it: I'm excited about a new edition; I spent seven hours driving from Anchorage back home to Fairbanks today listening to old D&D Podcast episodes and thinking about what the new edition would look like. I love this game, and when someone, whether it's WotC, Paizo, or some unknown of the future publishes the 10th edition, I'll be there to scarf it up as well. I don't think there's anything anyone could do to completely invalidate my colossal hoard of 3/3.5 edition books, just like none of my 1E books are worthless now...
and at this, I raise my Shield Against Slings and Arrows of Outrageous Fortune +1, and make ready to take arms against a sea of troubles...
Luddite? You too huh? I still use Windows 98 or XP. I dread using Vista as mucha s I dread using 4E.Harrumph. I'm not saying I'll never play 4e, but I'm going to join the Eltanin 3e Rulebook Recycling Project and stick with 3.5, at least in my DMing endeavors. Revealing my tree-hugger hippy roots, I guess. I need 4e about as much as I need Vista. (And it should be officially noted here that I still run MS Word 2000 on my computer, which is older than my 3.5e rulebooks. And I finally junked my 1988 Mitsubishi pickup last year, and still kind of regret it. I prefer to keep things that work rather than replace them with things that are supposed to "work better." Call me a Luddite.)
What? You mean I'm not the only one? I still use Windows 98 to run some of my older games, like X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter and Mechwarrior 2 and 3. Huzzah!
Not only is this the fastest I've ever seen a thread run to more than 500 responses, but this is hilarious, given the circumstances...
Forgot about that! I gotta go out and get my d30!
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I'm gonna go ahead and write it: I'm excited about a new edition; I spent seven hours driving from Anchorage back home to Fairbanks today listening to old D&D Podcast episodes and thinking about what the new edition would look like. I love this game, and when someone, whether it's WotC, Paizo, or some unknown of the future publishes the 10th edition, I'll be there to scarf it up as well. I don't think there's anything anyone could do to completely invalidate my colossal hoard of 3/3.5 edition books, just like none of my 1E books are worthless now...
and at this, I raise my Shield Against Slings and Arrows of Outrageous Fortune +1, and make ready to take arms against a sea of troubles...
Hear Hear. Realize that just a few years ago DnD was not looking so healthy. Remember when the mags basically went silent for awhile and it looked like the end was nigh? Compare that to today. DnD is a big deal again. Big, scary suit people at Hasbro could have easily quashed the whole line if they didn't think the margins had a future. These are the same guys worrying about paint from China right now, right? So this is a big investement of Hasbro time/materials/effort (i.e. $$$) behind the core franchise. Long term this is great news for everyone involved in the game and producing materials for it (like Paizo) because any kind of big marketing push will trickle down.
With this and Pathfinder/Gamemastery, things are looking pretty good for high quality products over the next while. Rack up those miles on your visa card! :-)
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I said it before and I will say it agian this just looks liek trouble. Not only have WoTC flooded the market with a lower quality product for the last couple of years and expected everyone to buy every book just to keep up with the rules, now they release an unwanted rules update. Oh sure there are some people just gaga over spending more money and thats awsome they are the market the new game seems to be after.
On a positive side I can see how they are trying to expand the possibilities of charater creation and online interaction. it would be a great idea if they could just stop doing this..............
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It is hard for me to concieve of a great DI when they can't handle the server traffic. It makes me a little upset that what was once free will soon be a subscription based program and that you get much more then you could want or ever use.
Changing character classes and races could be an interesting thing to do to "spice" up the game but I want something that makes it easier to "roleplay" not just becaome a pen and paper version of an online first person shooter. I was never really into "ever crack" and some of the rules realeased in oh say ToB and PHb II put me into mind of such games. If this IS the route they have chosen then count me out. I could understand that they want more stream lined rules for things like grapple (About Time) and better party roles since I hate the "Oh! we don't have a rogue (or cleric or arcane caster or fighter type take your pick) so we can't go down into the nasty little dungeon because the trap(or undead or et al ect...) will get us and mash us into little tiny bits.
Even worse is the idea of having to have to finish up and leave the dungeon because the parties wizard is out of spells and we can't fight the bad guys. Ok I will admit I was interested when they came out with some things to try to improve that in the complete handbooks. And while they do make mention of this in the 4E rules that they have talked about I still have some miss-givings. Why? because all the "fix's" they have made so far just made things worse by making the wizard too butch.
I am not one of the old farts here (ok I'm old but not that old) that is saying that they like the way things are and they don't want to change and that I will never use Vista (using it now thank you and I like most of what it does ***shudders***)and want to stick with 98 (never did like my computer crashing every five minutes)But when only part of something is broken (grappling rules)dont think you should fix the entire system.
I've seen this before with other games where they can't help but put out 12 different rules variations only to find out people are playing the old game anyway because only the diehard will buy every book and try to use it all. (does anyone remember Rolemaster or Rifts)
I'm just going to be overly cautios and say no thank you Wizards for now but then hey I have been known to be wrong before and maybe I am wrong now. who knows only time will tell.
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I'm personally somewhat excited about the new edition. I listened to the presentation at Gen Con, and personally think it sounds like they have some solid ideas. Anything that streamlines play is good as long as it doesn't take away from players giving their characters depth. As for resource management, I am an old school D&D person on that issue and don't like the idea of abilities that replenish over time as opposed to by the day. That said, the current market dictates that sort of change as well as the digital components. D&D isn't just trying to get it's market share from guys like me who have been playing for 20 years and will keep buying books even if they hadn't ever revised 1st edition. They have to compete for a market share with the younger crowd that has grown up on video games and MMORPG's. D&D, even in the 3.5 incarnation, was difficult to start playing if you were new to the game compared to say WoW and also requires that you have a group of friends who wants to play. If you want to get some of that consumer's gaming budget, you have to offer something that appeals to them in terms of the same ease of use and instant gratification that the video games or MMORPG's offers.
It's all about staying economically viable in a gaming market where larger and larger shares of the market are becoming digital. The fact that they are still committed to producing the books and pencil and paper RPG is a good sign IMHO. As for whether the game will be better than 3.5 or not, I am willing to wait and see on that. This same sort of nashing of teeth occured when 2nd edition came out, when 3rd edition came out, and when 3.5 edition came out. It's the same old song and dance from gamers who don't like change to something they enjoy. I think we should all see what the game is like at the table before we write it off completely. I for one intent to buy all the core books and subscribe to the D&D Insider initially to take it for a test drive. If I don't like it, I will still have all my 3.5 edition stuff, and I will only be out the money the core books and a few months of the insider content cost me. If it turns out 4th edition is as much an improvement to the game as 3rd edition was over 2nd edition, they will have sold me in spades.
Lastly, I think everyone should back off the ledge a bit. A 4th edition was going to happen eventually. It was just a question of when. No matter when they released it whether now or 10 years from now, there would still be people that are angry they did it. D&D has grown a lot over the years, and I for one am looking forward to what the new edition might bring.
Hm. As much as I was prepared to stamp my foot on my 3.5 core books and yell "this far and no further!"
The teasers that we have seen about 4e have me more than a litle curious about the new system.
Must...resist...change....
Does this mean that my beloved Eberron can be oldschool and grognardy now?
Can I sit in my rocker on the porch and polish my model lightning rail, and yell at the 4e kids to get off my darn lawn now?
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Does this mean that my beloved Eberron can be oldschool and grognardy now?
Can I sit in my rocker on the porch and polish my model lightning rail, and yell at the 4e kids to get off my darn lawn now?
No. You need to love Eborrin for at least 15 years, then have it taken away and replaced with a magical land that resembles some ridiculous caricature of 16th century Fuedal Japan, while being told that your setting isn't being supported because WotCost has decided what the masses want and it isn't your favored setting.
Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!FH
Up your nose with a rubber hose, gramps. Us kids weren't touching your lawn, because it has an old man smell.
I've got my own lawn, covered with lawn-warforged instead of lawn gnomes.
My wild speculation machine hints that Eberron will be the core setting for the 4e core books.
My wild speculation machine hints that Eberron will be the core setting for the 4e core books.
You need to get it fixed then... :-)
It's already been officially reported that the books will be setting neutral.Also, regarding the "which race goes" in the PHB, well, it's neither Dwarf, Elf nor Half-Elf ("dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on." - from one of the race articles, found it on ENWorld since I still can't access any part of the Wizard site).
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My wild speculation machine hints that Eberron will be the core setting for the 4e core books.You need to get it fixed then... :-)
It's already been officially reported that the books will be setting neutral.Also, regarding the "which race goes" in the PHB, well, it's neither Dwarf, Elf nor Half-Elf ("dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on." - from one of the race articles, found it on ENWorld since I still can't access any part of the Wizard site).
My conjecture would be Gnome and Half-Orc. I.E. not in the LOTR. We're looking to hit the mass market here, so Gimli and Orlando Bloom have to stay.
I, personally, would enjoy the Gnomes being put back into the MM as true Fey (see Pathfinder's treatment of them) to give them some flavor back. Instead of the default "oh I want to play a short illusionist".
Similar for the half-orc. They're half-monster, by garsh, they ought to be in the MM! People aren't going to like you!
I suspect though, that even though they aren't "core", there will be good details on "playable monster options" that cover a number of races. It always was odd to me that the half-orc showed up. Why not half-hobgoblin? half-gnoll? And kobold or goblin pc's can always be fun, although too many people play them as ferengi.
My wild speculation machine hints that Eberron will be the core setting for the 4e core books.You need to get it fixed then... :-)
It's already been officially reported that the books will be setting neutral.
Aw, I was just trying to stir up some poop.
This was mentioned a page or so back, but I think it is a good thing to have somewhat clearly defined party roles. I like the old schtick with the Tank, the Arcane caster, the Divine caster and the stealth/skill guy. Everyone has a chance to shine at *different* times. And having various niches means teamwork is encouraged rather than discouraged. If everyone had roughly the same skillset, it would be boring, and could foster games where everyone is always trying to steal the limelight...in every scenario. I like the idea of the small team of heroes, each of whom brings something different to the table. It's kind of like a modern Special Forces team: you've got your weapons specialist, your medic, your radio guy, your language guy, etc. By working together the *team* succeeds, not just a group of individuals, but a bona fide team.
And for the cleric as being non-sexy? I can't believe that. They can be a back up tank, back up artillery (sometimes), they can heal...they are the one class that could actually stand a chance to tackle a problem on their own. That's pretty cool in my book. *shrug*
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A preview of things to come for the half-orc? Alternate race added as a web enhancement for SWSaga.
So, based upon the youtube videos that talk about the core books being augmented by digtal content, I can certainly see the core books having only a few, core races, but the number of potential additional enhancements being increased. They'd no longer be constrained by page count and printing costs.
Newbies can stick with the tried and true, you advanced players can throw in as many options as you want. And based upon their proposed digital model you can create and post your own race/class variations for others to use.
This actually makes some sense if you think about it. Newbies don't want that many options, and they probably won't be reading every inch of the online digital content options like you scary people.
I finally figured out how to express my reservations about WoTC being our commander-in-chief for this battle (in the parlance of Sebastian's and my analogy). It's an old story which I first saw in the 80's. It's called S@*t Happens
In the beginning was the Plan.
And then came the Assumptions.
And the Assumptions were without form.
And the Plan was without substance. And darkness was upon the face of the Workers.
And they spoke amongst themselves, saying, "it is a crock of S@*t, and it stinketh."
And the workers went unto their supervisors and said 'It is a pail of dung, and none may abide the odour thereof.'
And the supervisors went unto the managers, saying 'It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it.'
And the managers went unto their directors saying, 'it is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide it's strength.'
And the Directors talked amongst themselves, saying to one another, 'It contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very powerful.'
And the Vice Presidents went unto the President, saying unto him, 'this new Plan will actively promote the growth and vigour of the company, with powerful effects.'
And the President looked upon the Plan, and saw that it was good.
And the Plan became Policy.
This is how s@*t happens!
And this is how I'm afraid decisions are made at WoTC. (Please note, that I'm not making accusations, just fearful suppositions).
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As I said earlier, I'll more than likely give 4E the once over. If I like it I'll buy the core books. If I don't like it I'll stick with 3.5E for a while.
My concern is this digital version of the magazines. I can see the wisdom behind digital versions - no printing or shipping costs, no space taken up in your home to store them, etc. But from what I was reading on WotCs website (when I could get to it), it seems like you'll have to pay a continous monthly fee in order to keep having access to older issues. In my humble opinion that sucks! It smacks of being the greedy corporation many are accusing WotC of being. Why not just have the mags as downloadable PDFs? You could still have online content for the monthly fee (such as the various character generators), and then you would have a product for those who don't want to pay the monthly fee.
Also, the current situation with the webiste certainly does not inspire me with confidence that they can pull of this D&D Insider. If this is a sign of things to come, then I weep for our future.
No matter what, though, I still have the various novels they publish to look forward to. Of course, now that I've said that, I'm sure the next thing WotC will announce is that all of there book lines are converting to an e-book format.
Crap! I'll probably regret giving them that idea.
A preview of things to come for the half-orc? Alternate race added as a web enhancement for SWSaga.
So, based upon the youtube videos that talk about the core books being augmented by digtal content, I can certainly see the core books having only a few, core races, but the number of potential additional enhancements being increased. They'd no longer be constrained by page count and printing costs.
Newbies can stick with the tried and true, you advanced players can throw in as many options as you want. And based upon their proposed digital model you can create and post your own race/class variations for others to use.
This actually makes some sense if you think about it. Newbies don't want that many options, and they probably won't be reading every inch of the online digital content options like you scary people.
Sure all that digital content is great, if you can afford a subscription. But what about all those kids out there with paper routes or mowing lawns to get money for their games. They now lose the ability to go down to their FLGS and browse through the latest issue of Dungeon or Dragon and decide for themselves if they want to invest in it. And if they don't have a regular cash flow to keep thier subscription up, they lose access not to just the current issue, but all the previous issues they have already paid subscription fees for.
Sure the tree-hugger in me likes that this means less deforestation to print magazines, but please...I still have Dragon issues from 25+ years ago. And while the gaming content itself is old and outdated, reading through the articles is great for inspiration and revisiting old ideas.
so in conclusion this is a big thumbs down from me on the whole digital initiative non-sense and what I've read of the speculation about fourth edition leads me to think I'll be avoiding that as well...
Sorny
Kids are pretty well off these days; if they can afford a $60 videogame they can certainly afford a $10 subscription. But I too am worried about losing access to an archive when my subscription expires. This is a worrying trend across the entire software industry, actually, and may require a future regulatory/political solution to protect consumers. Money should buy goods permanently, not just rent them for a time.
Aw, I was just trying to stir up some poop.My wild speculation machine hints that Eberron will be the core setting for the 4e core books.You need to get it fixed then... :-)
It's already been officially reported that the books will be setting neutral.
Please... don't stir the poop! ;-)
What? You mean I'm not the only one? I still use Windows 98 to run some of my older games, like X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter and Mechwarrior 2 and 3. Huzzah!Luddite? You too huh? I still use Windows 98 or XP. I dread using Vista as much as I dread using 4E.(And it should be officially noted here that I still run MS Word 2000 on my computer, which is older than my 3.5e rulebooks. And I finally junked my 1988 Mitsubishi pickup last year, and still kind of regret it. I prefer to keep things that work rather than replace them with things that are supposed to "work better." Call me a Luddite.)
Yes Freehold, you're not the only one. I keep the old computer happy and glitch free. I still play Shadows of Amn, Icewind Dale and Fallout 1, 2 & Combat Tactics. I have the Dragon Archive CD set as well. Don't have the heart to throw out some of the classics and modernized.
Nice Avatar btw.
Not only is this the fastest I've ever seen a thread run to more than 500 responses, but this is hilarious, given the circumstances...
Actually it's prophetic. I guess I should have taken it seriously, like Nostronomus. Given its posting date, I fell for it.