One of the things I often find interesting has been mentioned before and I believe even on other threads. Some of the best stuff in many ways is still in the 'boring old' core books. Especially in the way of relatively inexpensive magic items. Get a little creative and things really get interesting.
And yes Allen, I did not mean to imply that my sitting back after one big hurrah was the reason our fellow players die like proverbial flies at times in the campaign. I intended to convey my way of thinking as a player 'behind the curtain' as it were for the most recent session and indeed for many sessions, especially keeping in mind the size of the player group. I had a hideously lucky nat 20 Diplomacy check (total check of 62) that won the early part of the session for us with no bloodshed, so I figured that as Cleric 2.0's moment in the spotlight for the session and settled down for the ensuing carnage with the Mother Worm. Since I knew in advance we were looking at an encounter with the primary goal of eliminating the anti-magic armor from the campaign, that also shaped my actions and spell preparations. (Yes, I probably could have saved that character's miserable hide, but why do so when (a) my character had no means of knowing what was ahead, and (b) found the item in question just as big of a double-edged blade as the rest of the group ?)
Of course, since we have at least 3 hideous mutants passing for player characters at the table now, and I believe one of the almost-never-there players will be attending this session which will likely see 4 hideous mutants passing for player characters, things are shaping up to be particularly unpleasant/enjoyable.
In today’s twenty-seventh session of the Killer Age of Worms campaign, there were TWO (2) Player Character Fatalities. This brings the campaign total to Sixty-Six (66) PC fatalities. Far worse than the PC deaths today however was the presence of the Lich Thessalar who (prior to being obliterated by Turin) dropped a Mordenkainen’s Disjunction on the group and removed roughly 1,000,000 gold pieces worth of out-of-control PC magical gear:D
I deviated from the scripted text, in that I did not have the PC’s explore the areas in the Rift Canyon before heading for the Tabernacle of Worms. I moved the Ulgerstasta Sorcerer N’vesh-N’kar and the lich Thessalar to the Tabernacle area. Both having a fragment of Bucknard’s psyche, they needed to be there, and I did not want to spend the time and effort of having the PC’s wander around the Rift Canyon nor waste time with the Lillend.
There were 10 PC’s present at today’s game session. About half of the PC’s are getting out of hand with all of their magical gear. The group absolutely steamrolled the first encounter that consisted of N’vesh-N’kar, 2 flying Mindkiller Scorpions, 2 Earthcancer Centipedes, and 2 Advanced Kyuss Chimeras. The fight was over in only 2 rounds, and I did not do anything incredibly stupid or rash. So, when the PC’s opened the front doors to the Tabernacle of Worms, Thessalar the lich (modified to allow him access to illusion magic and was under the effects of a Superior Invisibility Spell) immediately cast Mordenkainen’s Disjunction, and 2/3 of my players went into an absolute Hissy Fit. Honestly, it was better than killing their characters. Nothing hurts the munchkin players more than steamrolling many of their beloved magic items. I had Turin witness each and every one of their rolls to everyone’s irritation:) Unfortunately, Turin somehow managed to turn at 31st level and Oblitterated Thessalar, just as I was getting into position to cast Wail of the Banshee and I suspect that would have killed 3 or 4 of the PC’s for my trouble. I’ll let Turin explain how he managed a turn check like that, TURD! Turin and one other PC were out of the area of effect, but as Turin’s character has taken a Vow of Poverty, I would have benefited little from Disjoining him.
Following the fiasco with the lich, the PC’s went back inside, hoping to loot the entire place to try to recover some of their losses. The ten Avolakia 10th level clerics entered the entrance hall invisibly and under the effects of a fly spell. Although several of the PC’s were able to spot the Avolakia clerics, they could little to stop them in the first round. Four of the PC’s were very close together. I then threw the kitchen sink at them, and dropped TEN Flame Strike Spells (one from each Avolakia cleric) right in the exact same area, one from each Avolakia cleric. The Elf Wizard PC and a new Stongman Character played by the player who formerly played the Binder character were INCINERATED into Ash instantly, and both Whined mightily. Two other player characters took in the area of 170 HP of damage and barely survived. Turin then had to rain on my parade by bringing back the two slain PC’s to life with a Revivify spell. The slain elf wizard then cast Mordenkainen’s Disjunction on all ten of the Avolakia clerics, dropping all ten to the ground and ruining all of their spell effects in operation. This was the end of the Avolakia clerics, as the Half-minotaur PC killed six in one round with his insane amounts of damage combined with the Supreme Cleave feat. In the end, only 1 of the ten managed to get out of the place alive. This was where we halted it for the afternoon.
All-in-all, a tiring afternoon. It is difficult to GM 10 high level and insanely powerful PC’s, at least 5 or 6 of which are uber-maxed-out to the point of being ridiculous (and Turin’s no walk in the park either), and the constant bickering between/and from the players was very tiring.
Our next game will be on Sept. 29 due to my child that is scheduled to be born next week. I regret the delay that this will give all of you, my dear fellow sick freaks and killer GM's in your usual bi-weekly fix. I hope the delay will give me time to recharge my batteries, as I'm likely to need it. Next game, I suspect the PC’s will likely tangle with Dragotha. I am seriously considering reducing the awards given from the 3 fragments of Bucknard. Those fragments will completely gut Dragotha’s formidable breath weapon and paralysis abilities, leaving him only with his spells and melee combat. And that will ultimately prove inadequate against my still-highly-powered group.
See all of you on the 29th. ~A.S.
Allen, you did not correctly remember certain details my old friend:
This is cleric 3.0, who was in quite the brutal position regarding a disjunction should the greater counterspells ring fail in its ability to counterspell a disjunction. Cleric 2.0 has the vow of poverty and was swapped out for Cleric 3.0 during the "shopping trip" prior to commencement of play, thus the character being illustrated by Cleric #2's player for me and dubbed Cardinal Tiberium.
Had I a Vow of Poverty, I would not have been able to benefit from Incense of Meditation nor the bevy of items on my characters' person. Given his Will saving throw bonus against the disjunction in question however (+30 against effects from an Evil source, +29 otherwise), he would have statistically only lost 10% of his gear, failing the DC 32 Disjunction saving throw only on a d20 roll of 1 or 2.
And I carried over most, but not all, of cleric #2's xp total, which from the xp awarded this session bumps Cardinal Tiberium to 19th level.
Turning level was achieved as follows:
Base cleric level 18, improved turning feat +1 (19), ephod of authority +1 (20), phylactery of turning +4 (24), scepter of the netherworld +3 (27), turning bonus armor enchantment +2 (29), turning bonus shield enchantment +2 gives a base cleric level for turning purposes total of 31. My level check can achieve the +4 turning level bonus with the -4 penalty for the Unhallow spell on a natural d20 roll of 12 or higher. (I rolled an 11, technically achieving a turning level of 34 that was lost in the din and reported as a 31 in play.)
Turning check bonus is +9 for CHA modifier, +2 for synergy bonus from Knowledge (religion), +2 for his affiliation score with the Church of Pelor, +2 for the Glory domain, totalling a base turn check modifier of +15 on the die roll, effectively reduced in the current location of +11 due to the Unhallow effect of the environment. (Since a total of 23 or higher is what adds an additional +4 cleric level for turning, Cardinal Tiberium achieves this level 45% of the time.)
Cardinal Tiberium's gear is all legal and above board, and you will appreciate what happens when you permadeath him. ^_^
There is also a suite of spells from Complete Champion (which Cleric 2.0 made use of when he could) that Cardinal Tiberium has integrated into his staff that are going to make his turning capabilities significantly worse. I am hoping to not need them to come into play, but if they do ... well, they do. ^_^ They are called Light of Faith (adding a +5 sacred bonus to his turning check, meaning he requires a natural 7 or higher on a d20 to add 4 to his cleric level), Light of Wisdom (adding 6 to his effective turning level for a base turning level of 37 plus the probable increase from the turning check itself), Light of Purity (increasing his turning damage at his current caster level by +5d6 which is maximized to +30 from the Incense of Meditation, which is further multiplied by Empowered Turning), and Light of Courage (inflicting a flat 10d8 damage to all undead creatures within the area of effect of his turning attempt whether or not they are turned at all, maximized to 80 hp by Incense of Meditation). The way the staff is set up requires me to take a full round action plus a following swift action - then of course the free action for the actual turn attempt - to charge my divine focus [which the shield is constructed to serve as in addition to the standard holy symbol] and subsequently generate a turning check in the environment we are in on a natural 7 or higher of an effective cleric level of 45th, generating turning damage (on average) of 105 HD and dealing 80 hp damage (in addition to several undead guaranteed to get obliterated) to all undead within the 60 ft radius spread of the turn.
Other than that, the spells used on the two crispy critters was Revenance, which temporarily restores them to half hp and grants them a reprieve from the great beyond. Revivify is intended for when the Revenance effect collapses and they fall over dead again.
Very clever Turin. You see folks, I take my eyes off him for only a moment, and it's all downhill from there for me:(
Congrats on the new gamer-to-be Allen!
Very clever Turin. You see folks, I take my eyes off him for only a moment, and it's all downhill from there for me:(
Actually, the gist of this character I recall discussing with you via phone a fair bit prior to the session, and in bits and pieces over the preceeding weeks while the munchkins were getting more munchkin.
Ironically, this was *basically* the direction I had planned for the dwarven Cleric of Me the whole time, interrupted by his unexpected and fiery demise: to turn like no cleric has turned before. :)
Hopefully the e-mail discussion we've had in the aftermath of this session has helped in clarifying some of the potential difficulties your bad guys may be facing.
At least the disjunction has had its intended effect. Now, let us hope the rest of the Mighty Endorphin Power Strangers don't get stupid on me and insist on draggin things out for months of 'down time', which would be tantamount to end of game ...
Congrats on the new gamer-to-be Allen!
Thank you. My wife and I are naming her Allyson.
Congrats AllenCongrats on the new gamer-to-be Allen!Thank you. My wife and I are naming her Allyson.
Thanks very much Brent.
I was taking a peek at the most recent entry in Turin the Mad's Campaign Journal "A Madman GM's the Savage Tide" where he indicated he couldn't remember the character class played by one of his players.
And then the thought struck me: I NEVER DID KNOW AND STILL DON'T KNOW the name, character class, or character level of Ben's deceased player character before I WASTED HIS ASS yesterday:)
Hehehe....
I just can't express enough how enjoyable this thread is...
GM Allen, you remind me greatly of the DM that trained me at the fine art of killing...err I mean, adjudicating, character demise situations. A style that calls back to the older days of D&D. Though I do have to say, why did you seem to dread running Redhand? I now its combat-light, but ohhh does it have potential.
While I will say that I do enjoy a good Monster-killing session, I am greatly looking forward to all the potential fall-out that will happen in 'The Prince of Red-Hand' when I run it. My players tend to vary greatly in their ability to handle such things. Some can craft a character with incredible potential (as you seem able Turin), whereas others are simply LUCKY!(<--- My Wife...I've never seen anyone roll so many 20's, legit too)
I try my best to make each and every player face their weaknesses (not being unfair of course).
keep up the good work! Let'em have it with Dragotha!
Yasha
Thanks Yasha, I intend to steamroll my players with Dragotha come the 29th. And I'll pull out the stops to do so. Even Turin isn't going to derail this freight train >:D
Thanks Yasha, I intend to steamroll my players with Dragotha come the 29th. And I'll pull out the stops to do so. Even Turin isn't going to derail this freight train >:D
I am fully expecting to see my turn attempt fail miserably against him - but, in character, he would be obligated to try. No cleric with Quickened Turning would not at least give it one shot.
Why does Turin's new cleric frighten me?
The last campaign I DM'ed which got to high levels (14 or so before I nerfed them), I'd managed to limit the loot and items they had, so that my bad guys still had a chance (however slim) against them. Even then, they played well enough and tactically enough that they could take on higher CR encounters without too many problems.
I shudder to think what would have happened had their cleric got a loot list like Turin has noted...
Grats on the new rug rat! Also grats on wiping out one Millleeeoon (*doctor evil voice*) gp worth of gear. heh . I've only used disjunction once as a DM, and it was a very interesting experience. The bad guy accidentally destroyed the artifact he was after, and that pretty much threw my campaign's entire plot in the dumpster. (Was still worth it though )
Why does Turin's new cleric frighten me?
The last campaign I DM'ed which got to high levels (14 or so before I nerfed them), I'd managed to limit the loot and items they had, so that my bad guys still had a chance (however slim) against them. Even then, they played well enough and tactically enough that they could take on higher CR encounters without too many problems.
I shudder to think what would have happened had their cleric got a loot list like Turin has noted...
Oh yes meomwt, should my meager defenses fail against a disjunction, I'll be rolling quite a few d20's in a feverish attempt to not lose everything. (Okay, granted, with a huge Will bonus it won't be much ... but when those 'few' items that buy the farm are the main items, it can be utterly devastating.)
This is pretty much the 'big moment' in the campaign for me, staring down Dragotha, fellow PC's lying in windrows of worm-gnawed carrion around me ... and perhaps collecting a huge pile of xp and schwag, or perhaps joining the carrion pile.
In a way, I would rather Dragotha had his own campaign arc rather than be kowtowing to some hopped-up zombie semi-gawd comprised of a million or so earthworms. But hey, I'll take the BBEG's as they come. If I can somehow pull that particular rabbit out, the moment will be sweet indeed and I personally would be satisified with the campaign.
I am sooo looking forward to running Age of Worms....
Do bear in mind Allen, Turin, it is the enthusiasm and aplomb with which you both have talked about AOW that caught my attention and drove me to seek out all my copies of it. The enthusiasm for death also has given me a new lease on my relatively rusty Nasty DM id Card. my hands have been sadly somewhat tied, as due to a lack of dependable gamers in my area (seeking them fervently right now...) that most of my DMing has been 1-1 with my wife and I. It becomes increasingly difficult to ruthlessly kill a character when that one character is the only motivation to keep the adventure running. And while she tells me to just kill her characters if they do something stupid...which I have done...often, considering her insistence that these single-player games revolve around her character makes rolling up a new one difficult (at least for the same storyline).
So, heres to 100 (and please do try your damndest Allen) deaths to date by the endgame! I have also heard someone mention doing a rewrite of Kyuss using Dread Necromancer instead of Sorcerer. I haven't tried that myself yet, but I will most likely do so here soon to see what it turns out like.
The suggestion included giving him Multispell as a fear...I do like that idea.
And lets see some Dragonkibble!
I am sooo looking forward to running Age of Worms....
Do bear in mind Allen, Turin, it is the enthusiasm and aplomb with which you both have talked about AOW that caught my attention and drove me to seek out all my copies of it. The enthusiasm for death also has given me a new lease on my relatively rusty Nasty DM id Card. my hands have been sadly somewhat tied, as due to a lack of dependable gamers in my area (seeking them fervently right now...) that most of my DMing has been 1-1 with my wife and I. It becomes increasingly difficult to ruthlessly kill a character when that one character is the only motivation to keep the adventure running. And while she tells me to just kill her characters if they do something stupid...which I have done...often, considering her insistence that these single-player games revolve around her character makes rolling up a new one difficult (at least for the same storyline).
So, heres to 100 (and please do try your damndest Allen) deaths to date by the endgame! I have also heard someone mention doing a rewrite of Kyuss using Dread Necromancer instead of Sorcerer. I haven't tried that myself yet, but I will most likely do so here soon to see what it turns out like.
The suggestion included giving him Multispell as a fear...I do like that idea.And lets see some Dragonkibble!
Yasha, I have no doubt - especially in the aftermath of the Disjunction along with what will no doubt be numerable changes to Dragotha's known spells roster - that virtually the entire party will be steaming piles of undead dragonkibble. A bit of judicious swapouts for a handful of defensive spells and a well-aimed enervate or two will likely provide the necessary boost in body bags to breach 70 by the end of the next, albiet delayed, session of the Age of Worms.
What's even better is that the Savage Tide has some tie-ins to the Shackled City and the Age of Worms adventure paths should your players have previously participated in either or both and are paying some attention to the flavor text.
And it gladdens a Naughty GM's heart to hear such tales of carnage-doing when you dust off the old school screens and sally forth to eagerly acquire player characters (besides the spouse's) to succumb to the critical hits and enervations of their malevolent foes.
And I thank you for that Turin. Do bear in mind...if the Wife should decide to play my Age of Worms...which I am trying to convince her to, it shall Be Open Season! I only ever pull punches a bit in one-on-one play. And she wonders why I want to group play more often...I want Death! I want Mayhem! I want people to Cry! *Cough..cough...* Err...all in the name of fun, of course.
And I thank you for that Turin. Do bear in mind...if the Wife should decide to play my Age of Worms...which I am trying to convince her to, it shall Be Open Season! I only ever pull punches a bit in one-on-one play. And she wonders why I want to group play more often...I want Death! I want Mayhem! I want people to Cry! *Cough..cough...* Err...all in the name of fun, of course.
You want the players to sob as thier precious hard-wrought characters die horribly in a matter of seconds as a critical hit horribly mutilates them ?
WELCOME TO THE CLUB! :)
... Oh wait, did I type that out loud ? My bad.
Speaking of which...critical hits....does anyone, namely you Turin, or Allen have a interesting Critical Hit chart for 3rd edition. I still lament the photocopied ones I had that I think were from some magazine in 1975? My old DM's evil evil chart. Also included was the incredibly deadly Critical Fumble table...which I have missed ever so much.
Cleric: I make my attack roll! *a 1*
Me: Roll percentile...
Cleric: 68%: Critical Hit to friend (gotta love that stuff)!
Me: 'Arvan the heroic half-elven ranger has tragically had his lower spine severed by the crushing blow dealt to him by Cleric#1. He falls, with exaggerated slowness, his death rattle marking his passing.'
Perhaps Allen might think me a little soft in the head for this, but I do want to mention that I do not use the Death From Massive Damage Rule. However...I do use the Wound System for my games (ie. critical damage is not multiplied by goes straight to your wound score). I have found with a great deal of testing that this is quite deadly for players...especially since Larger creature types get more Wounds depending on their size...
Colossal..base wound score x8! I have just been waiting to use a Dragon with this system.
I would be curious to know your input about using this though. Undead of course have no Wounds...but Aberrations certainly do. I think this would be perfectly nasty for Age of Worms personally.
Actually, the fact that some critters have no ability to BE criticalled (especially if you remove the ability to enchant items that can do so on a continuing basis) make the undead far more horrifying.
On the flip side, I have (in the Savage Tide) found that the Critical Hit Deck is a far more gratifying device for 'fleshing out' that aspect of combat. And lo, Paizo also has a Critical Fumble deck coming down the pike too, which - if the hit deck is any indicator - will also prove wonderfully educational for my players and players-to-be. Depending on the critter (zombies for example) one can still lop off an arm or leg and not have done too much actual damage for example ...
Personally, tracking wounds et al is far too cumbersome in previous experience with 3rd edition. D&D is hardly a realistic game, so tacking on yet another combat mechanism to keep track of is just one more headache to GM and play with. Characters get, encounter for encounter, critically-hit far, far more often than any critter or NPC, so sooner or later a lucky shot WILL kill a PC. Regular hit points is bad enough - wounds, for me, are worse and also have the unintended effect of every single character sinking thier first or second best ability score into CON just to get that extra edge in dealing with Wound-based criticals. Why encourage a player to ramp up an ability score that will make poisons, various necromantic effects and diseases all the less likely to be successful in softening them up prior to the bad guys' polishing them off ?
I've already banned Psionics, Eberron-specific, Forgotten Realms-speciic and pretty much all OGL ('cept Paizo, but thier 'OGL' stuff is Pathfinder as far as I am concerned) source materials, *especially* for feats, prestige classes and magic items.
Granted, there are a few 'vanilla' (WoTC) goodies that are out of whack too: Frenzied Berserker [WAY too much raw damage output potential per round to be anything remotely resembling sane], the feat that lets a Hide check defeat every non-standard sensory method in the game [say what?!] are two the come readily to mind. I am sure there are others that I will have to reign in or simply pull the rug out from under as well. And don't get me started on templates that characters keep wanting to take.
Well said Turin. One of the reasons I posted this, is while I have been very happy to use the Wound System (and I use a non-constitution, but level-based version) I was already considering nixing it for Age of Worms.
I am getting the distinct feeling...(hmm..I wonder why?) that I already have my work cut out for me. I have already begun overhauling the campaign, which is certainly no walk in the park (And Paizo...I love what you did with it, I am just compulsive...), and I am beginning to this that I already will have far too many things to keep track of to really worry about some of the optional rules that I normally employ in my campaigns.
I originally adapted the Wound System because it seemed more in line with the nasty criticals and Fumbles of the past I was use to. I only recently have taken my first look at the Critical Deck and I will admit...it seems quite nice. Not quite as nasty as I would like, but nice. I might just have to look into picking it up.
Do you have any idea when this purported Fumble Deck might be coming out? Thats the one I am really interested in. Oh and Turin, I am currently reading through your STAP Mad DM posting...when I get to the end I will post here in just a bit...
Yasha, the Fumble deck IIRC is slated for release in the next few months (January maybe ?) - I went ahead and pre-ordered mine a couple of weeks ago from the good folks here at Paizo. I've also scored a singificant haul of the item cards, another combat pad [it is amazing how heavy usage will ablate the thing] and some other juicy goodness. Got the Dragon issue with ol' Malcanthet's PrC in it too, since I suspect I will have at least one sucker get interested in it.
And the beauty of the crit deck is your named bad guys can draw from it too, to once again add a reason for the Regenerate spell to ever exist in D&D. (Well, besides eyeball-slurping worm-periscopes that is.)
YES! Severed Limbs!
That is one of the things I have been missing. Anyone else been totally missing the 'Sword of Sharpness'? I have personally readmitted that particular magical effect back into my game. I do so enjoy using it.
YES! Severed Limbs!
That is one of the things I have been missing. Anyone else been totally missing the 'Sword of Sharpness'? I have personally readmitted that particular magical effect back into my game. I do so enjoy using it.
With the release of 3.0, I've long wondered what the point to even bothering with Regeneration ever was in the game, since nothing 'official' even administers limb-loppage. Oh sure, plenty of 'crit, you're head is lopped off' vorpal junk, but not the humble Sword of Sharpness and its awesome 'Welcome to the Stubby Club' goodness.
Of course, about six years later and the charming critters here at Paizo catch on to it and thus the Crit Hit Deck is ... er, printed.
Now, if only the Crit Fumble deck would get done already ... I do so cherish the natural 1s ...
After taking another look at the samples for the Crit Deck....I think I am going to buy one this weekend. Its not too expensive and hey everyone...it just makes gaming more interesting. Heheheh
I am definately going to wait for that Fumble Deck with a great deal of anticipation.
If you have access to the old RuneQuest (versions 2 or 3) rules, they have critical fumble tables which could provide hours of inspiration and fun (for DM's) and annoyance (for players). IIRC, there are different fumble charts for melee, missile and natural weapons.
Back in the day, playing RQ with a killer DM, we dreaded a roll of 100, as we knew that the party was in for a dose of hurt.
Teemuu, thank you for the well wishes.
As for Disjunction I really have no objection to using it whatsoever. I used Mordenkainen's Disjunction in the last high level campaign that I ran in 2004 (a home-brewed campaign: "Yethan's Faithful/Doomsday Disciples"). Turin also used a Disjunction on me and the lads in the Sea of Dust (Greyhawk) during his "Tharizdun Unleashed" campaign (which sadly, we never finished, due to scheduling problems as I recall.) As a player, I don't sweat Disjunction too much. I certainly don't get angry about. But I would (as a player) probably leave the main campaign I was playing in (if I ate a disjunction and lost a lot of items), and pick up some side quests to acquire the necessary gold to get my character back into position where I could finish the main campaign without getting massacred.
That being said. I use Disjunction when players have gone overboard with magic items. In campaigns and in groups where the players are more modest and reasonable, I don't even have to consider using it. It is the ultimate "Check and Balance" against the tyranical government (Player Characters)... and should be used intelligently.
Yasha0006, do dust off your killer GM card. I don't know whereabouts you live, as far as the low player count. I imagine finding new players could be difficult. If you live near a university, I'd drop some discreet advertisements or index cards in places gamer-types are likely to come across. If you live in the continental U.S., you should find some.
I've never used Wound Points as a GM. I really don't have an opinion about other GM's use of them. I think Wound points tend to go for the "cinematic element" of the game, and probably achieves it, as I imagine that most players are clutching their character sheets for dear life whenever they hear the word, "Nat 19, I will threaten..." As a GM, I'd probably be okay with Wound Points, but with some players, You'd have to watch them like hawks on their dice rolls (to prevent cheating) or else your bad guys would be taking nose dives all too often...
I am shooting for 100 player character kills in Age of Worms. I rather doubt I'll get there, as I'd need 34 more Player character kills to do so. I'm hoping to pick up 7+ PC kills against Dragotha next game session, but assuming Into the Wormcrawl Fissure finishes this next game on the 29th, I'll only have four or maybe five game sessions to butcher as many PC's as I can in Dawn of a New Age, which I'd drag out until Thanksgiving (I told the group I'd finish Age of Worms by the end of November). It is also my intent to go for a TPK in the encounter with Kyuss, and then attempt to convince my players to bring in new/or raised PC's to have another go at Kyuss, which will of course produce even more very dead PC's:)
Presuming we have 10 players on the 29th, I'm betting 8 or 9 of them become dragonkibble.
How many wish to persist after of course is the key point.
I have had the misfortune of having to play with Wound points in d20 (Star Wars to be specific), and frankly think about them as outlined in an earlier post. One more headache to deal with that is really not necessary.
Mordenkainen's Disjunction - to me - is pretty much the proverbial " WELCOME TO 17th LEVEL !! " spell. I agree with Allen, it is a wonderful tool for reigning in absurdly large piles of magical schwag.
However, I've toyed with a variant of it in my head : basically the same effect as far as spells and similar effects (spell-like abilities, psionics ad nauseam are automatically blasted) but instead of permitting saves against item de-magicking, they are suppressed based on a caster level check as a "contest" against the targeted items' caster level+10. One caster level check is made for the entire disjunction.
For example, with this variant, a disjunction from the 20th level lich Thessalar slams into the party. The first player up to bat has, amongst other piles of goodies, Heavy Fortification armor with a caster level of 17 setting a suppression DC of 27. Thessalar's disjunction has to roll a natural 8 or better on the d20 to successfully suppress the heavy fortification armor, achieving 1 round of suppression per # higher rolled on the d20. Let us say he rolls a vanilla 10, achieving a caster level check of 30, thus suppressing the magical armor for the next 3 rounds of game time (8,9 and 10). Of course, since this would also suppress every other item on the characters short of a caster level 20 item, in the short-term it achieves the same desired effect (shutting down magic items) without robbing them directly of thier loot. The subsequent massacre of characters (deprived of thier items) by said Lich will likely mean that he robs thier worm-eaten corpses of thier schwag very directly, so that they are virtually guaranteed to be completely nekkid mewling kittens back where they are true-rezzed from. And now the bad guy has ALL thier swag...
Why does Turin's new cleric frighten me?
The last campaign I DM'ed which got to high levels (14 or so before I nerfed them), I'd managed to limit the loot and items they had, so that my bad guys still had a chance (however slim) against them. Even then, they played well enough and tactically enough that they could take on higher CR encounters without too many problems.
I shudder to think what would have happened had their cleric got a loot list like Turin has noted...
Pshaw meomwt, the total gp value of all that stuff is in the range of about 15% of what an 18th level character should be expected to have.
Sadly, for this group, thier collective tactical ability is about on par with a par of soap.
That is a very interesting take on Disjunction Turin. Hmm...
It does make you think though...just how mad is Mordenkainen that his little killer spell got released into the general magical populace of Greyhawk.
I guess the way the effect works (as printed, or your version Turin) depends on how you rule the spell was created in the first place.
-Either Mordy created it as an ultimate suppression/dispel type effect (ie. Turin's method) or
-He created it specifically to destroy magical items (didn't really care if spells got caught up in it too).
I think that your method is more likely Turin. It just seems if Mordy was making a 9th level spell for this effect, he wouldn't have done so to not face a Belt of Giant Strength and +5 sword. As a Wizard he already has more than enough firepower to kill just about any party, why destroy their loot?
My personal take is that the spell was created to give the slight slight chance of destroying an artifact without going on some fantastic adventure to rid yourself of it...and what DM will actually let their players succeed at that?
Next adventure arc provided? Sounds good to me.
Perhaps a variable version of the spell, a regular cast version (Turin's version) and a ritual-spell version for actual destruction of magic item (10 minute to 1 hour casting time, and maybe a component to add in). Just a thought.
Yeah, that sounds about right for the "backstory" to the spell.
I rather doubt even a Neutral Wizard would be overfond of permanently disjoining massive piles of magic items - especially if they know how to 'siphon' (for lack of a more accurate term) the magical enchantments within schwag items for thier own purposes. (And virtually no Wizard will have the Vow of Poverty, sorcerors maybe, but not Wizards.)
Part of the reason I've long pondered the variant is, back when the spell was introduced in 1st edition (IIRC), almost every character had a far higher chance of successfully retaining thier magic items, since thier saves vs. spells was quite low a target number by the time they would typically encounter a disjunction (if ever), and of course that even really high-level characters pre-3rd edition simply didn't tromp around with the dozens and dozens of minor and major magical items that are so commonly encountered in 3rd edition.
Now of course it is pretty much a guaranteed hosing of everyone in the party BUT the characters you really want to clear out thier items (the ones with the high Will save bonuses). Since the short-term goal of a disjunction remains addressed with the variant above (rip down the buff spells and shut down the foes' schwag), I can readily agree that a ritualized disjunction should easily achieve the random % roll to disjoin an artifact. (If anything, for some artifacts, that may BE the way to dispatch the cursed thing in a given GM's campaign, no die roll required other than figuring that out ...)
That would be pretty funny....characters have a Disjunction, but don't use it because they think the Artifact will be unaffected (or there will be nasty backlash...). They then spend ridiculous amounts of time, treasure and sweat realizing that the disjunction is what they needed all along. ^_^
Its like the Wizard of Oz...
Thanks very much Brent.Congrats AllenCongrats on the new gamer-to-be Allen!Thank you. My wife and I are naming her Allyson.
What's the latest word on Allyson my friend ? Or am I a day or two premature in wanting to procure stogies ?
My daughter was born yesterday evening. Both mother and child are doing well. There were several minor complications, and my wife endured 23 hours of AGONIZING labor. Although I had always tremendously respected "motherhood", to witness the incomprehensible pain and labor a woman goes through is hard to grasp. Women do indeed (as the saying goes) "walk through the valley of death to give life." I witnessed it yesterday. I really don't even have the words to describe more than that.
And to risk yet another pointless and irreverant insult of my Players and their characters; on Sept. 29, my player's characters will likewise take a "Walk through the Valley of Death." However the end result of my PC's walk through the valley of death will be them getting their BUTTS HANDED TO THEM, by Dragotha:) Thank you very much.
Congrats on the daughter!
Also, congrats on a chance to devastate yet more PCs for our sadistic enjoyment.
^_^ Welcome Allyson, pass our fondest regards to the wife Allen. Be sure to touch base with everyone when the opportunity presents itself.
^_^ Welcome Allyson, pass our fondest regards to the wife Allen. Be sure to touch base with everyone when the opportunity presents itself.
Congratulations Allen. May the thee of you know many happy, peaceful and fulfilling years together.
“Childbirth is more admirable than conquest, more amazing than self-defense, and as courageous as either one.”
Gloria Steinum (I think).
And remember Allen, while you may never be able to experience the pain and satisfaction of giving birth yourself, at least you can open all your own jars.
Bruce Willis said that.
Ahh the Wisdom of Bruce Willis...
I also will add my congrats to you Allen. I too have a young child (a son, Logan, now 5). He has already begun to develop an unhealthy interest in dice. ^_^ Something for you to look forward to. All the normies cringe when we gamer-types infest the Genepool with our spawn. Who would have thought we could actually reproduce? (Cliche I know..)
Since I predict a great many sleepless nights ahead for you (yeah, that was a tough one...), take care.
Thanks again to all for your well wishes. I spent my first day, up all night with my child. It's tougher than I would have imagined, but definitely worth all of it.
Heh, I remember those days/nights...
Do your best to help out your wife in the weeks to come, they VERY last thing you will want to hear is that you aren't helping out enough. It will most likely take a few weeks for her to recover to prebirth levels of energy, so she will need all the help you can give.
Besides, it seems to me that those first few weeks are a wonderful chance for a father to get to know their child.
Oh and last thing, be prepared for your wife to be territorial (even towards you) and nitpick on just about everything you do regarding the baby (well...mine certainly did). If this does occur it will mellow out soon enough, its just a chemical-born paranoia about protecting the baby I think. But then again, you have a degree in Psych don't you? You should do fine. ^_^
Congratulations to Allen & his wife on the arrival of their daughter.
These are wonderful times. I hope you both enjoy them.
And to risk yet another pointless and irreverant insult of my Players and their characters; on Sept. 29, my player's characters will likewise take a "Walk through the Valley of Death." However the end result of my PC's walk through the valley of death will be them getting their BUTTS HANDED TO THEM, by Dragotha:) Thank you very much.
I'll attempt to procure suitable audio tracks for background noise/music for the greatly anticipated showdown with ol' bony face.
That would be pretty funny....characters have a Disjunction, but don't use it because they think the Artifact will be unaffected (or there will be nasty backlash...). They then spend ridiculous amounts of time, treasure and sweat realizing that the disjunction is what they needed all along. ^_^
Its like the Wizard of Oz...
And you just KNOW it would cheese the whole lot off to no end once they figure that out ...
I LIKE IT !! *Robocop 1 thug voice*
Players: "We went to hell and back for nothing?"
DM: "Yup. And now you've made a very bad enemy in the personage of Mephistopheles." Heheh
Players: "We went to hell and back for nothing?"
DM: "Yup. And now you've made a very bad enemy in the personage of Mephistopheles." Heheh
ROFLMAO. ^_^
Just another week to go ... *twitch, drool, slobber*