As I have already awarded each player with 5AP, I may simply rule that they dont automatically get to replace them when they go up a level. I`ve been giving this AP safety net issue a lot of thought , and I have decided I shall only awrd them on a very ad hoc basis. Such as when the characters accomplish a heroic feat (and I dont mean just by doing something flashy, I mean by saving a city or raising a seige for example).
That way, my happy players keep their AP and I get to maintain a certain sense of danger in the campaign.
As I have already awarded each player with 5AP, I may simply rule that they dont automatically get to replace them when they go up a level. I`ve been giving this AP safety net issue a lot of thought , and I have decided I shall only awrd them on a very ad hoc basis. Such as when the characters accomplish a heroic feat (and I dont mean just by doing something flashy, I mean by saving a city or raising a seige for example).
That way, my happy players keep their AP and I get to maintain a certain sense of danger in the campaign.
From my personal experience with Action Points, the likelyhood is that your PCs will eventually burn through them as fast as they get them. Try to see how they do for an extended period. After all, as can be considered fairly well documented, character deaths at low and high levels are relatively easy - it's in the middle levels that it gets hard. Let them burn through them by the fistfuls at the low levels. They'll wish that they had been stingy with them until the middle levels all too soon.
To more directly answer your astute observations Mr. Taylor, this was an item he simply showed up wearing, not an item he received GM approval of prior to entering play. Generally, item equippage, hit point/ability score rolls and such details have been handled on an honor system basis. Frankly, I rather doubt that item costs less than nearly 200k gp "by the book" (which is, as the DMG and Magic Item Compendium books both point out, subject to pricing control by the GM under all circumstances).
Math would roughly be 6 x 11 x 2000 x # (the multiplicative number appropriate to the duration of the vanilla anti-magic field spell), or a base cost of 132,000 multiplied by the duration-based value. I rather suspect that an anti-magic field's duration is not measured in hours and that the sneak thus slipped his item in under the radar.
In short, a re-learned lesson in permitting players to just blindly come up with thier own magical items.
Just bothered to double-check the math on this armor enchantment in question - 6 x 11 x 2000 (use-activated, since there is no durational limit when activated) x 1.5 (for a duration of 10 minutes per level) totals up to 198,000 gp plus the base armor (masterwork full plate) for a grand total of 199,650 gp. That's all but 350 gp of the gear allowance for a 15th level character (200,000 gp), which as I recall is exactly where the character in question came into the game.
Methinks I smell a rat. It's one thing to blow half your gear allowance on a single item (although that's pushing it pretty hard), it's another altogether for all but 350 gp out of 200,000 gp to be invested in a single item.
Yes, all that gold spent, and his sorry ass is still going to be worm chow when the Mother Worm comes calling:D
Yes, all that gold spent, and his sorry ass is still going to be worm chow when the Mother Worm comes calling:D
The problem is, I rather suspect he has tacked on items since creation, from looted cash. Such as the aforementioned Starmetal Greatsword (adamantine plus bonus damage per hit to outsiders, detailed in Complete Arcane within the description of the Green Star Adept prestige class). And other goodies that allow him to eat and drink without depending on yours truly to piss away valuable spells to feed and water him. (Granted, such items are at this level truly minor in gp value, but it is a question you might wish to ask him...)
And yes, from your posts above, I rather suspect AM Field boy is crawler chow ...
*Herr Radiant Servant of Pelor savors the mountain of xp's earned today, culminating in a magnificent display of buffed clerical awesomeness.* I made 18th level today Allen. <grins evilly>
I'm sure Allen's rant will follow shortly. And of course, that said cleric will surely die a messy, messy demise in the next session of the Age of Worms.
I certainly hope Payback's coming Turin after your performance today >:( In today’s Twenty-fifth Session of the Killer Age of Worms Campaign, there were FOUR (4) Player Character Fatalities. This brings us to a total Kill Count of Sixty (60) for the campaign. There were Ten players present for today’s session. Eight PC’s were 16th level, one was 15th, and 1 was 17th.
The characters began the afternoon by finishing the Library of Last Resort. I elected to scrap the “dream encounter” and its “not really dead” result, in favor of having an encounter that could actually produce real fatalities:) With that in mind, I called upon a former notorious home-brewed villain NPC “Cardinal Devious” (named from Cardinal Richelieu and the character ‘Devious’ from the old Monty Python’s Flying Circus TV show) to make an appearance.
I gave the PC’s most of the dream material from the Library, but I forced them research the possible locations of Kongin-Thulnir once they returned from Last Resort. Dragotha and company, having just gained the knowledge of where the phylactery was hidden dispatched Cardinal Devious to be the convenient sage the PC’s sought out in Alhaster. Naturally, Kyuss’ minions directed the PC’s to Cardinal Devious. The Cardinal was waiting for them in a waterfront warehouse. The PC’s were given the false impression that Cardinal Devious had information that could be used to halt the Age of Worms and that he was willing to sell it to the highest bidder. Happily no Player expressed even the faintest doubts that this was legitimate. While looking for the Cardinal, the PC’s tracked him down, only to have a scroll planted on one of their persons. I typed up a nice computer printed document to spice up the plot. They bought it hook-line and sinker. They tracked down the Cardinal, engaged in dialogue with him, and were “offered” an “ancient scroll” that supposedly could stop the Age of Worms. I handed one of the Players (the player of the Gnome Artificer) a second scroll of printed paper. He (the player) unrolled the ‘scroll.’ However unlike the first, this scroll said simply “SYMBOL OF DEATH.” Then, his character failed his Fortitude Save, and died instantly:)
The gang then rolled initiative. First went a PC Fighter, run by a female player. She moved into position, but did little of consequence. This proved unfortunate, for after the second player (PC Psion-replaced slain PC Deathmaster), it was the Cardinal’s turn. The Cardinal successfully cast defensively, and then proceeded to drop a Wail of the Banshee spell, and THREE more PC’s (including the Fighter) fell over DEAD:D:D:D Cardinal Devious then used his free action to call out “release the bug” before Quicken Dimension Door’ing out. The remaining PC’s were left to deal with a Mindkiller Scorpion (CR18), which they defeated without much difficulty, minus a few ability points on PC lost due to the aura of madness.
With the info gained from the wicked Cardinal, the PC’s then teleported off to Kongen-Thulnir. The group first tangled with the Fiendish Green Dragon Necrozyte. The players enacted a few intelligent defenses after first learning of the invisible dragon’s presence. They were having some success before one PC spellcaster managed to get a Force Cage around the dragon and effectively ended the encounter for the dragon, which couldn’t escape the Force Cage.
The PC’s were deciding what to do with Necrozyte when Vermirox the Blue showed up. I opted to substitute the two scripted CR 16 Blue Dragon cohorts with Vermirox, and have him ridden by a 18th level Cleric. The encounter started with the dragon and rider 500 feet above the PC’s. Once the Vermirox descended to 350 feet above the PC’s things got interesting. The player of ‘Dwarf Cleric #3’ Dimension Doored himself (travel domain) up 350 in an effort to dismount the rider Cleric 18. He failed in his initial effort; but in an effort to be ‘cinematic’ I allowed both Clerics opposed Attacks of Opportunity as each left the other’s threatened space. The evil cleric was dismounted and then proceeded to cream Dwarf Cleric #3 with his heavy flail (Evil Cleric had a previously cast Fly spell (also had Travel domain) in operation.
Numerous attempts from the PC’s on the ground to affect the dragon and evil cleric came to little or no significance, and I won’t relate the details, save to mention those that did. After bashing Dwarf Cleric #3 again with heavy flail, the evil cleric put Dwarf Cleric #3 at –9 HP with a Flame Strike. Death seemed absolutely certain. But I was ROBBED by Turin the Mad who used an Immediate Action to bring Dwarf Cleric up to +1 HP. Dwarf Cleric #3 then healed himself, and I (the evil GM) started to get concerned… The Human Cleric (#2, not Turin the Mad) went airborne after the dragon and evil cleric. He dropped a Maximized Flame-Acid substituted Strike and a Quickened Flame Strike on the dragon. The dragon was then hit by an attack from the PC Psion and forced down onto the ground surrounding the Citadel of Weeping Dragons. Turin the Mad, buffed to the gills then entered melee with the dragon, and scored 6 hits, including 3 criticals (one was an attack of opportunity when the dragon tried to run away to save his life) and Killed the dragon SOUNDLY. Props, you turd…
My one last attempt at PC death came as the evil cleric cast Implosion at Cleric #2. The player in question needed a Natural 15 on a d20 to survive, and the lucky bastard rolled a 15. Crap. Evil cleric then word of recall'd out.
The PC Half-Minotaur had no significant contribution, as he was grounded and unable to engage anything in melee combat:)
That’s where we called it for the afternoon. Join me next time friends when dear old Mother Worm likely comes-a-calling, and the players start screaming:)
You are a mite mistaken good friend, Cleric # 2 walloped the dragon with his two Fire Storm spells for the day, not Flame Strikes, although his caster level of 15 may explain why you were led astray regarding that particular.
We didn't get any schwag to speak of so pthbthpthpt ... ^_^
And don't forget I did try to get the Hexblade's gear destroyed after he blew his natch 1 Reflex save (in according to the rules outlined for magical items from the DMG).
Thanks Turin, your corrections are accurate and so noted; and yes you did attempt to help me dispatch certain items following the Nat '1' save rolled. I believe the Nat 1 was for Dwarf Cleric #3 on the Flame Strike however...
To make matters worse old friend, thanks to the mountainous pile of xp earned this previous session, my humble impoverished cleric strolled directly into 18th level. Ah, 2 base 9th level spells per day plus domain plus bonus from WIS (you have GOT to love the Vow of Poverty's enhancement bonuses to attributes at 18th level), things are looking relatively rosy indeed.
Since it is clear that undead turning is of less-than-optimal capability at this late point in the campaign, spell casting is his new area of concern...
*sigh* It seems your players are finally getting the hang of things. Or is it just that their higher level characters give them a slightly larger comfort zone?
Or is it all down to that Turin the Mad and his cleric of Pelor.
I cant help but note how the high character death rate has nudged more and more PCs into taking the Cleric class. Thats what? Five clerics at least right now? Three dwarven and two human? Out of a party of TEN!
Sheesh, most groups can`t even get ONE player to play a cleric! :)
*sigh* It seems your players are finally getting the hang of things. Or is it just that their higher level characters give them a slightly larger comfort zone?
Or is it all down to that Turin the Mad and his cleric of Pelor.
I cant help but note how the high character death rate has nudged more and more PCs into taking the Cleric class. Thats what? Five clerics at least right now? Three dwarven and two human? Out of a party of TEN!
Sheesh, most groups can`t even get ONE player to play a cleric! :)
*Chuckling*
Actually, there are 3 clerics in possible play with this group. (My first cleric, the Dwarf with No Name, died at about 12th level due to the infamous paired Flame Strikes.) The other party members are a Hexblade, a Wizard, a psionic Ardent, a Fighter, a monk-esque character, a ranged-attack built Assassin-type character and the Uberfied Frenzied Berserker (with the anti-magic field armor) ... I think that covers all those who were present last session. If one of the 'rares' (player wise) shows, he has a dwarven fighter/cleric on tap with a pretty scary high-level rogue in reserve from 3.0 days.
As posted previously, an entire party of clerics could prove damn, damn hard to stop. Not impossible, granted, but much more difficult.
I almost feel like clapping my hands together in delight, whilst giving a gleeful (yet slightly girlish) "Horaay!" upon reading this news.
Indeed, such ferocious veracity of eviscerating and re-educating adventurers truly verifies the value of venturing, henceforth I hopefully and honestly hope to peruse the recounting of rendered characters in all their glory (especially because it appeals to my slightly-sadistic sensibility, whilst allowing me to remain a “nice” GM to my own players… for now).
Ilaletin, how many of YOUR campaigns' PC's have become monster mulch - it's been almost a year now ... ^_^
llaletin, how many of YOUR campaigns' PC's have become monster mulch - it's been almost a year now ... ^_^
Ahhhh, should you find yourselves perusing the DM Kill Board thread you might find quite a few entries that I have recently submitted. This saturday gone was the last session of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (Group 1), and there were a number of points throughout the last battle where I did indeed think that the PCs might fail in their quest, resulting in the destruction of the entire multiverse. But fortunately(?) they managed to avert such a fate, though it did indeed come at a heavy price for the group.
The previous session for RttToEE was almost a TPK, with 3/4 of the PCs falling to death spells. And the session before that consisted of a marathon battle, 8 hours in real-time against The First, though no PCs died in this battle it was very close in every single round, with the PCs immediately having to go on the defensive due to the preparations that their opponent had made, with multiple Blade Barriers spread across a large area, and a high number of Wraiths with Spring Attack moving across the area.One interesting thing of note is that after Lv 11, their deaths never came about from heavy damage administered to them, because they are indeed quite capable of administering many many Heal spells between them, but they never have quite figured out the Death Ward spell. Disintegrate, Destruction, Slay Living, these are the causes of nearly all of the PC deaths in recent times (and being within the vicinity of a Hewards Handy Haversack thrown into a Portable Hole).
All in all, there have been approximately 12 PC deaths during my time of running RttToEE for the saturday group, with 7 of these occurring in the final two sessions.
I am also running an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft game, and have quickly made it known that I will not be pulling any punches for this, though after a couple of early deaths, the group now seem to be fairly well formed and capable of facing the challenges ahead. I think that the biggest difficulty for them was that I had not told the players what game I would be running for them, and so the group started off without a single cleric ;-)
All this aside, I do believe it will soon be time to run Age of Worms, and though I have given them a number of warnings about the severity of encounters, I will still try and maintain my "nice" GM hat, though running the likes of all those dragons, Mother Worm, the Titan, Dragotha & friends should still be the natural demise of many a character.
Good to hear from you Illatin. At higher PC levels, like my group is presently at, it does become easier to polish some of them off with certain death spells when they are not spelled-up or prepared. However of late, I am less enthusiastic about using these types of spells because they penalize the players with the more reasonable, fair, and balanced characters (a.k.a. honest/legitimate PC's), and the players with Uber-maxed munchkin characters usually come out alive. I learned this last game yet again.
Mother worm is another matter however. Although I suspect that she's a All-PC-kill or No-PC-kill type of encounter, she has the ability to make short work of the uber-characters in the group just as readily as the modest ones, hence, I intent to go after the heavies straight out of the gate. Turin, having a Freedom of Movement ability will not be affected by Mother worm's most potent special ability, so I've got to either quickly subdue the rest and drive him off, or pummel him to death with her many attacks (which I can do Turin, so don't try to be a friggin hero, alright:)
And llaletin, do forgive my prior spelling of your screen name. Such happens when I don't have the reply up in front of me for the sake of space...
Good to hear from you Illatin. At higher PC levels, like my group is presently at, it does become easier to polish some of them off with certain death spells when they are not spelled-up or prepared. However of late, I am less enthusiastic about using these types of spells because they penalize the players with the more reasonable, fair, and balanced characters (a.k.a. honest/legitimate PC's), and the players with Uber-maxed munchkin characters usually come out alive. I learned this last game yet again.
Mother worm is another matter however. Although I suspect that she's a All-PC-kill or No-PC-kill type of encounter, she has the ability to make short work of the uber-characters in the group just as readily as the modest ones, hence, I intent to go after the heavies straight out of the gate. Turin, having a Freedom of Movement ability will not be affected by Mother worm's most potent special ability, so I've got to either quickly subdue the rest and drive him off, or pummel him to death with her many attacks (which I can do Turin, so don't try to be a friggin hero, alright:)
Well, Allen, I see a few basic options available. Given the character's required NG alignment, he's rather morally obligated to not leave his fellow compatriots in the lurch for any longer than he can help. (Which of course eventually spells into a recipe for character death, often at the price you've mentioned before where the honest players get hosed while the munchkins continue onwards.) Sooner or later the VoP Radiant Servant of Pelor is critter kibble, of that I am comfortable with.
Which leaves the option of which kind of character to 'build' for back up. Either I make up a serious melee bad-ass (and educate the dingleberries with what a Warblade is capable of) or Radiant Servant 3.0. I suppose you can take your pick ... ^_^
Please avoid the temptation of instructing those buffoons how to play a competent melee combatant. And if you do, I suspect you'll get stuck GM'ing several of them for the next 18 months in STAP Group 1:) Go with cleric 3.0
Please avoid the temptation of instructing those buffoons how to play a competent melee combatant. And if you do, I suspect you'll get stuck GM'ing several of them for the next 18 months in STAP Group 1:) Go with cleric 3.0
ROFL
Indeed,that thought did indeed occur to me earlier this evening whilst the hexblade and grey elf wizard players talked my ear off on the phone for about 2 hours. The wizard's player was rather ... eloquent, shall we say, in expressing a desire to retain a competent healer in the party...
Although it would be rather ironic indeed to get shafted with my own melee build throughout the First Savage Tide plus side quests ... I shall indeed go with Cleric 3.0, to spare myself the pain.
On the other hand, the thought of having to make yet another cleric right now is rather ... hard to digest.
Just catching up on my "Killer GM runs Age of Worms" reading.
ROFL its hard not to like a gm , that substitutes a non lethal dream sequence encounter with a much more tangible and potentially lethal one.
60 pc deaths is a very daunting number, I've been running shackled city and have only killed about 20 ( 20 i killed, 5 suicides i dont coun't , and 5-8 through interparty combat which i also don't count). I'm only on chapter 6 , so I have a lot of time to reach such great heights as yourself heh.
Just catching up on my "Killer GM runs Age of Worms" reading.
ROFL its hard not to like a gm , that substitutes a non lethal dream sequence encounter with a much more tangible and potentially lethal one.60 pc deaths is a very daunting number, I've been running shackled city and have only killed about 20 ( 20 i killed, 5 suicides i dont coun't , and 5-8 through interparty combat which i also don't count). I'm only on chapter 6 , so I have a lot of time to reach such great heights as yourself heh.
5 suicides plus another roughly half a dozen internecine kills ? Please tell me you've done those incidents justice in a post or five. ^_^
We're at about the end-ish, from what I have gathered (without cheating and looking up the summaries available), of Chapter 10, so you're on course. Chin up!
Just catching up on my "Killer GM runs Age of Worms" reading.
ROFL its hard not to like a gm , that substitutes a non lethal dream sequence encounter with a much more tangible and potentially lethal one.60 pc deaths is a very daunting number, I've been running shackled city and have only killed about 20 ( 20 i killed, 5 suicides i dont coun't , and 5-8 through interparty combat which i also don't count). I'm only on chapter 6 , so I have a lot of time to reach such great heights as yourself heh.
No, its not at all fun to get your character killed in a very harsh encounter, only to be told "oh, don't worry, that didn't really happen, it was only a dream." Being the kind GM I am, I wanted to spare my players that last bit of disappointment, and not have to burden them by a fictitous demise. Instead I gave them the REAL THING and wiped out nearly half the party in one shot!!!!!!!! And I know my players will deeply thank me for wiping them out. It shows them how much I really do care:)
Best of luck on the remainder of your campaign, and achieving a legendary PC kill count in the Shackled City. Turin, I, and others will look forward to the good news, so please do let us know:)
Teeamu, Allen is correct. We both enjoy accounts of character carnage, whether we're playing or running. All we ask is to be fragged fair and square.
Strangely, I don't remember any character demises at that bridgehead Allen ... something about a dragon falling down and getting his brains knocked out I think ...
I can't bring myself to make up yet another cleric in the fallback position however. Player block mebbe ...
I can't bring myself to make up yet another cleric in the fallback position however. Player block mebbe ...
If your esteemed DM would allow such a combo, may I humbly suggest a Favoured Soul/ Hospitaler PrC from Complete Divine) combination. Bard-like casting for a cleric, but the Hospitaler adds a little punch to the combat mix and keeps the spell-casting up high.
If I get chance to play a new character sometime soon (and I can't see that happening), that's what I'll be heading for.
As an addendum, the Rogue PC in my party has dropped below 0hp twice in our last two sessions - each time, saved by the do-gooder cleric or druid. The most recent was impressive: dropped by two Magic Missiles cast by an Orcish Cleric (Magic Domain), Hidden in the Dark and who won initiative. Sweet.
I can't bring myself to make up yet another cleric in the fallback position however. Player block mebbe ...If your esteemed DM would allow such a combo, may I humbly suggest a Favoured Soul/ Hospitaler PrC from Complete Divine) combination. Bard-like casting for a cleric, but the Hospitaler adds a little punch to the combat mix and keeps the spell-casting up high.
If I get chance to play a new character sometime soon (and I can't see that happening), that's what I'll be heading for.
As an addendum, the Rogue PC in my party has dropped below 0hp twice in our last two sessions - each time, saved by the do-gooder cleric or druid. The most recent was impressive: dropped by two Magic Missiles cast by an Orcish Cleric (Magic Domain), Hidden in the Dark and who won initiative. Sweet.
Actually, I went with a warmage/jade phoenix mage for the back up character. Super-duper heavy on the offensive firepower, with some respectable melee combat capability mixed in ... with Tenser's Transformation and a supply of 10 potions of Bull's Strength to fuel them with adding in a nice bit of short-term melee punch. Among other things of course.
I've never looked closely at Favoured Soul, but I shall certainly do so in the near future moewmt.
Allen,
By any chance are you two personal favorite bad guys going to put in an appearance to collect some heads, say at about an average party level of 18th ? (Or sooner after the Mommie of Almost-All gets her fill.)
I would think you would want to take a swipe at the group with Sir Sean and Sir Laughs-Some-More...
I haven't decided. Sir Sean killed 4 PC's in Chapter 3 of the AoW, as you know, he was one of the couriers. I'd have to upgun both significantly to reflect the higher levels of the PC's (Sir Sean's 10th level, Sir Laughsomore's 14th level). I'll stew on this one for a few days...
I haven't decided. Sir Sean killed 4 PC's in Chapter 3 of the AoW, as you know, he was one of the couriers. I'd have to upgun both significantly to reflect the higher levels of the PC's (Sir Sean's 10th level, Sir Laughsomore's 14th level). I'll stew on this one for a few days...
Hrm. That's right, he was the charming gent cleaving through multiple PCs in the aftermath of a necklace of missiles bead.
The big question is whether or not you want to drag things out or go along with the pace we've established thusfar. :)
I had a guy run a Favoured Soul in my last campaign. They get a restricted selection of Cleric Spells (similar to the way the Sorceror gets a limited selection of Wizard Spells) but casts spontaneously. There are another couple of nice abilities at high level. They get d8 for hit dice and cleric BAB progression.
The character played well and the guy had a good spell selection which he used effectively.
It's a nice class, and when I get chance, I'll play one myself for a while.
The Hospitaler PrC (Complete Divine) seems to be a bit like the Knights Templar, and is (I think) intended for Paladins. But the Favoured Soul can qualify. I knocked one together as an exercise one day and it seemed to mesh well.
I have to agree that Favoured Souls work well. Most of the clerics I have played with tend to have a very rigid "favoured spell selection" anyway, always sticking to a few key spells for each spellcasting level.
Favoured Soul means you can use more of them, but like a sorcorer the versatility hit can be devestating. Personally I prefer them as "back-up" or joint healers with another cleric or druid, the same way I prefer to play sorcorers in a party that already has a generalist mage.
But its a very excellent class. Im not s keen on the Hospitaller presige class myself. I feel its class abilities are pretty redundant where Favoured Souls are concerned, but thats just my particular playing style talking.
meomwt and Calavingian:
Took a look at Favored Soul, noticed that they seem to be the only other 'core' (20 level) class that receives all 3 base saving throws as good saving throws, besides monk. (I could easily be mistaken of course, there are an awful lot of splatbooks out nowadays...)
The whole reason to do a Cleric in AoW for me was to have that always-important undead turning ability (thus branching into Radiant Servant) in a campaign so heavily emphasizing them.
Other than that, the raw divine firepower is mucho nice. I rather suspect one has to, like with sorcerors, determine in advance whether or not your favored soul is going to be a blaster-type or a buff-and-crush type. I rather lean towards the latter due to the class' bonus proficiencies regarding thier patron gawd's preferred weapon, not to mention energy resistances, wings (yay mobility increase for free), and DR at 20th level.
All that having been said, one can munchkin the turning of undead aspect of such a character with a single level of cleric (in conjunction with cherry-picking certain domains), multi-classing into favored soul, nipping Contemplative 1 at the optimum moment (to cherry pick a 3rd domain) then heading right back into FS. While you'd lose out on the DR, and a bit of spellhucking, you would get access to Divine Metamagic - which doesn't care one whit if you've any significant clerical prowess whatsoever - and could rather brutally monster out on the BBEG's via undead turn attempt dumps into mondo-spell-hucks. Quickened Maximized Empowered Fire Storm anyone ? (And yes, I know that specific combination would suck down a whopping 12 turn undead attempts ... but the horrified expression on a GM's face when you cackle gleefully as you inform him of the BBEG's recent damage wallop could well be worth it...)
meomwt and Calavingian:
All that having been said, one can munchkin the turning of undead aspect of such a character with a single level of cleric (in conjunction with cherry-picking certain domains), multi-classing into favored soul, nipping Contemplative 1 at the optimum moment (to cherry pick a 3rd domain) then heading right back into FS. While you'd lose out on the DR, and a bit of spellhucking, you would get access to Divine Metamagic - which doesn't care one whit if you've any significant clerical prowess whatsoever - and could rather brutally monster out on the BBEG's via undead turn attempt dumps into mondo-spell-hucks. Quickened Maximized Empowered Fire Storm anyone ? (And yes, I know that specific combination would suck down a whopping 12 turn undead attempts ... but the horrified expression on a GM's face when you cackle gleefully as you inform him of the BBEG's recent damage wallop could well be worth it...)
This kind of clever crap from Turin is what I have to live with Gents, week in and week out.
On the plus side, in the rare instance when Turin and I have had the opportunity to play together as players (usually he GM's or I do), there has yet to be a single campaign we have not taken over, notwithstanding the GM's efforts to stop us:)
meomwt and Calavingian:
All that having been said, one can munchkin the turning of undead aspect of such a character with a single level of cleric (in conjunction with cherry-picking certain domains), multi-classing into favored soul, nipping Contemplative 1 at the optimum moment (to cherry pick a 3rd domain) then heading right back into FS. While you'd lose out on the DR, and a bit of spellhucking, you would get access to Divine Metamagic - which doesn't care one whit if you've any significant clerical prowess whatsoever - and could rather brutally monster out on the BBEG's via undead turn attempt dumps into mondo-spell-hucks. Quickened Maximized Empowered Fire Storm anyone ? (And yes, I know that specific combination would suck down a whopping 12 turn undead attempts ... but the horrified expression on a GM's face when you cackle gleefully as you inform him of the BBEG's recent damage wallop could well be worth it...)
This kind of clever crap from Turin is what I have to live with Gents, week in and week out.
On the plus side, in the rare instance when Turin and I have had the opportunity to play together as players (usually he GM's or I do), there has yet to be a single campaign we have not taken over, notwithstanding the GM's efforts to stop us:)
Weell, remember, I'm not the one to abuse the Divine Metamagic as a general rule of thumb. Allen's assessments are correct: as a tag-team of players, we are quite difficult to stop. And of course Allen has come to despise the Close Wounds spell, which has denied him a few character fatalities in my time with the clerical reigns. (Not enough, but Allen's always been fond of the save-or-die stuff.)
I have one trick up my sleeve for the end-game BBEG, but not with the current character or his current replacement. (I will put together cleric 3.0 this week, but the first stand-by character is 'on hold' until the end-game with Kyuss.)
*Pokes Allen*
Hey, you got some more body bags bud, surprised you're not exercising your bragging rights now ... :P
In Today's Twenty-Sixth Session of the Killer Age of Worms campaign, there were FOUR (4) Player Character Fatalities. I seem to get stuck on four PC deaths, in each of these last few game sessions and I can't quite hit five... and I'm deeply saddened by it--as I know each of you are as well:)
Today the group actually finished "Kings of the Rift", and were nearly finished by it as well. I had expected "KotR" to last one or more game sessions longer, but the PC's, led by Turin the Mad's RIDICULOUS Diplomacy bonus (+30 or so), managed to turn most of my bloodthirsty giants into Lifelong Friends:(
The Firegiant chief ended up offering a phony deal to the PC's, to retrieve the other key that Charlgar the rebel Hill Giant leader had obtained. This led the PC's to seek out Charlgar in the Pit areas. Naturally, Turin the Mad Nat'20'd his Diplomacy check and Charlgar wanted to be good pals instead of impaling my snivelling PC's as he should have; and he told the PC's that the key was down in the carrion pit. However, being a Chaotic Evil giant has its limits, and Charlgar opted Not to tell his new pals that there was something else down in the carrion pit:)
The PC's head down into the carrion pit, find some loose treasure, and search the place for the vault key. The group had searched about 2/3 of the cavern when Dear, Sweet old Mother Worm burst out of the ground. The players with some debate and misassumptions (if you could have just seen it--the Hexblade picked up old giant bones thinking he somehow wouldn't get eaten...) concluded that a colossal worm threatened them. Sadly for the PC's, they did not conclude that the worm in question was a colossal carrion crawler. And sadly for me... half of the party ended up having some ability to use Freedom of Movement (via items, domain abilities, special abilities) which ultimately allowed them to avoid a TPK.
Once Mother Worm hit the scene, Initiative rolls were made and after several PC's went, it was the Hexblade's turn. Always in possession of Gonads as big as church bells, but a brain the size of an almond, dear old Hex naturally charged the beastie, hitting for about 100 HP of damage. On Mother Worm's action, she attacked each player present (there were Eight of them today) with a tentacle attack, and successfully paralyzed all three PC's that were succeptible to the paralysis attacks), namely, the PC Monk, the PC Fighter, and the previously-deemed-invincible Half Minotaur Frenzied Beserker (with the Anti-magic armor). The other five PC's were immune to the paralysis.
After most of the players present whined mightily and declared the encounter an almost certain TPK (which I encouraged, naturally), those that could moved back, away from Mother Worm, except the Hexblade. On Mother Worm's next action, she sunk all Eight of her tentacle attacks and her bite on the irritating Hexblade, and KILLED him, turning him into a large red stain on the floor:D:D:D
Over the course of the next two rounds, most of the PC's made a gradual retreat to the end of the cavern that led up to Charlgar's room. The Drow Cleric/Sorcerer however was determined to get the vault key and (after Dwarf Cleric #3 magically located the key) assumed Gaseous Form and dimension door'd into the belly of Mother Worm to find the key. In the meanwhile, during those next two rounds, Mother Worm first SLAUGHTERED the PC Monk:D then OBLITERATED the PC Fighter:D, and started on the Half-Minotaur, who could do nothing to stop him:D.
Several efforts by Turin and the other PC's to harm the monster came to minimal fruition, and the group basically gave up the Half-Minotaur for dead, putting up a Wall of Stone and creating a Forcecage to prevent Mother Worm from charging into them and causing yet more PC deaths.
On the following round, Mother Worm KILLED the Half-Minotaur:D:D:D, and then used her bite attack to keep the Half-Minotaur in her mouth. On the round after that, Mother Worm shot a Ray of Acid at the PC Elf Wizard whom she could not attack directly because of the Forcecage; and in the process dislodged the Drow Cleric/Sorcerer-(who took full damage)-and the Key in the process. After firing the Acid Ray, Mother Worm moved down to just below the level of her large hole in the ground to wait for another opportunity to fire yet another Acid Ray. Before I could do that, Dwarf Cleric #3 dropped another Wall of Stone, this time over the top of Mother Worm's hole. This effectively ended the encounter. The PC's now had the key, which Mother Worm Vomitted up when she used her Acid Ray to hose the Elf Wizard and the Drow Cleric/Sorcerer, and they couldn't get to Mother Worm without going through the Wall of Stone. Thus Mother Worm made off with the corpse of the ridiculous Half-Minotaur, and his Insane suit of Anti-Magic armor, PERMANENTLY removing it from the campaign:D:D:D:D:D Thank's Greg Vaughan. It took a truly fearsome monster to get the job done, but it's over and that retarted anti-magic armor is history, all done completely fairly and as scripted:)
Unfortunately, the player of the Half-Minotaur thanked me by making his next character a duplicate of the last one, EXCEPT for the anti-magic armor. This one does even more damage, but can be affected normally, which means I'll likely kill him off pretty quick. Sadly, that was not accomplished by the remainder of the opponents in Kings of the Rift. Long story short, the PC's slaughtered the Fire Giant Chieftain, obtained Dragotha's phylactery, and destroyed it. The Frost Giant Sorcerer attempted to waylay the group, only to die when Brazzemul arrived and attempted to Incinerate everyone moving, which included the Frost Giant Sorcerer. Brazzemul, not withstanding his awesome prowess, did not kill a single PC. Dwarf Cleric #3 put a wall of stone up after Brazzemul first Transmuted the wall to mud, and bought the PC's one additional round to prepare, in which time, the Elf Wizard used that RIDICULOUS Invisibility to Dragon's Spell. On the round after the wall came down again, the dragon Burned half of the party to near death, but after that, multiple PC's had Immunity to Fire spells up, and could Fly, which allowed them to start wailing on Mr. Brazzemul, until Brazzemul plummeted out of the sky, PC's tailing him downward, and teleported away to safety with only SIX Hit Points remaining. Almost got him you schmucks, but Brazzemul lives to fight another day:)
That was where we called it for the afternoon. Do join me again next time my friends and fellow bloodthirsty blackguards, when we begin "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure", and the Players tread closer and closer to your friend and mine, Dragotha, and the likely TPK that accompany's him:)
Pardon me friends, but I neglected to mention that we are now up to SIXTY-FOUR (64) total Player Character Deaths for the campaign through "Kings of the Rift". My original prediction in October 2006 was for 64 PC deaths for the entire Completed campaign. With the two final chapters yet to go, I think Turin's prediction of Eighty PC kills is attainable. We'll have to wait and see:)
You know, I do believe that there should be a feat available to creatures that improves blindsense to blindsight. The scent ability has two feats dedicated to it [and scent is dependant on a WIS ability check, which rots], and there are plenty of other examples of monster feats that improve upon existing special qualities.
Having observed some of the monstrosities that are coming into [and dying in] play in the AoW thus far on the players' side of things, we did have the misfortune of seeing even my reasonably formidable knowledge of 3rd edition run against its limits in this most recent session of the Age of Worms that good Sir Allen is running.
Half-minotaurs ... more core classes and class options than you can shake a tarrasque' shield plates at ... it's become rather nightmarish. Even with myself and one of the other players attempting to aid Allen in adjudicating all of the various items and abilities and what have you, it gets to the point where a GM simply has to say 'enough!'. Which I admit I am expecting at one point or another from Allen, if nothing else to preserve his sanity. Well, I figure it might preserve my own ...
Allen my friend, I really felt for you today between the half-minitaur version 2.0 [which I expect to hear has the feral template next session], the hexblade's successor feral-templated duskblade character, the female fighter's successor feral-templated druid character ... I believe the party has become mostly monsters asides from the spellchuckers ... how depressing. And even then, some of the spellchuckers are monsters too ... bleah.
Ah, the desperations players will go to in order to stop dying horribly ... and they wonder why the save DCs go from 'ouch' to 'omg wtf BS!!' at this level of play ... talk about a vicious circle.
*sigh* Pardon me while I bask in the sheer pleasure of it all.
Turin, I completely concur with your thoughts. I have let the munchkins have their cake. But I'm going to have the last laugh when I ram that cake down their throats:D
And furthermore Turin (and readers), in my e-mail sent to the group, I specifically discussed at length, that if each player would play a standard book PC instead of continually trying to fudge and exploit every concievable race/class combination, as well as their ability score rolls, I'd gladly reduce the difficulty of the scripted text to compensate. 50% of the gang just doesn't get it; and persists in trying to make unkillable characters, trusting that I will honor the rules of the game and therefore not kill them. They are smart in that sense, because I won't break the rules; but what I will do is REMOVE ALL potential help they might have otherwise gotten. This will take the form of several very special bonuses (from Bucknard/Balakard) that were intended to be used against Dragotha. Frankly, the PC's as of now, probably could get by without them, but I suspect that Dragotha will ultimately have the victory; but I have no sympathy for the players at this point:)
I had a similar situation in my game when one of my players proposed a fearl thri-kreen barbarian/stoneblessed goliath/blah/blah that referenced about 10 different splat books. Granted it was all legit (ish) if you don't mind players picking and choosing at will from anybook they can get their hands on, but it just put me over the edge. I was like enough of this crap! I don't have time to spend to hours weeding through all these different sources to figure out what the heck this monstosity you're trying to pass for a PC is. I finally broke down and drafted some character creation guidlines (no more than 2 non core books to be used in any character being added into the game for starters), and my list of banned races and prestige classes is growing- cetainly no frenzied berserkers (i hate that stupid prestige class).
I had a similar situation in my game when one of my players proposed a fearl thri-kreen barbarian/stoneblessed goliath/blah/blah that referenced about 10 different splat books. Granted it was all legit (ish) if you don't mind players picking and choosing at will from anybook they can get their hands on, but it just put me over the edge. I was like enough of this crap! I don't have time to spend to hours weeding through all these different sources to figure out what the heck this monstosity you're trying to pass for a PC is. I finally broke down and drafted some character creation guidlines (no more than 2 non core books to be used in any character being added into the game for starters), and my list of banned races and prestige classes is growing- cetainly no frenzied berserkers (i hate that stupid prestige class).
Absolutely. I see this crap from some specific players consistently. I think it is both a personality issue, and some of these players have played extensively in other game systems. I have previously barred most other 3.0/3.5 books, but this time I succumbed to the whining of the predictable players and allowed any WoTC book. Come next time, I'll nip this rose in the bud and once again limit what books/races/& classes the players can choose from.
Ive limited my players to the two Players Handbooks, the various Complete Books and Eberron Sourcebooks for char generation and thats it. Oh except for Exalted Deeds and Vile Darkness, which no-one has used yet anyway.
Most of my players aren't total munchkin power gamers and actually build their PCs more around rping interests than optimizing. I only have one real optimizer, but his disease sometimes infects the others a little. However, I don't want to limit them too much in books. There's some good stuff in some of the complete books, along with some of the races of books and I quite like the Stormwrack, Frostburn books as well. Its just when you start mixing too many sources that problems really start to arise. The savage species book has started to become a particular bane for me. Stupid feral template. I laughed when I saw it being an issue in your game as well.
QUOTE="Allen Stewart"]
I had a similar situation in my game when one of my players proposed a fearl thri-kreen barbarian/stoneblessed goliath/blah/blah that referenced about 10 different splat books. Granted it was all legit (ish) if you don't mind players picking and choosing at will from anybook they can get their hands on, but it just put me over the edge. I was like enough of this crap! I don't have time to spend to hours weeding through all these different sources to figure out what the heck this monstosity you're trying to pass for a PC is. I finally broke down and drafted some character creation guidlines (no more than 2 non core books to be used in any character being added into the game for starters), and my list of banned races and prestige classes is growing- cetainly no frenzied berserkers (i hate that stupid prestige class).Absolutely. I see this crap from some specific players consistently. I think it is both a personality issue, and some of these players have played extensively in other game systems. I have previously barred most other 3.0/3.5 books, but this time I succumbed to the whining of the predictable players and allowed any WoTC book. Come next time, I'll nip this rose in the bud and once again limit what books/races/& classes the players can choose from.
And furthermore Turin (and readers), in my e-mail sent to the group, I specifically discussed at length, that if each player would play a standard book PC instead of continually trying to fudge and exploit every concievable race/class combination, as well as their ability score rolls, I'd gladly reduce the difficulty of the scripted text to compensate. 50% of the gang just doesn't get it; and persists in trying to make unkillable characters, trusting that I will honor the rules of the game and therefore not kill them. They are smart in that sense, because I won't break the rules; but what I will do is REMOVE ALL potential help they might have otherwise gotten. This will take the form of several very special bonuses (from Bucknard/Balakard) that were intended to be used against Dragotha. Frankly, the PC's as of now, probably could get by without them, but I suspect that Dragotha will ultimately have the victory; but I have no sympathy for the players at this point:)
Well, in the interests of promoting group sanity - or at least my own and Allen's - I've canned the monstrosity I had planned with the intention of finishing up cleric 3.0 to stand in the stead of cleric 2.0 should #2 finally meet his untimely demise in the coming session.
After seeing the brutal beasties being deployed by all but the cleric players and one or two others, I must confess a strong, almost overwhelming desire to see the stuper-munchkins get annihilated and set aside from the table for at least a brief time while the non-power gamed characters tackle the challenge of dealing with the threat(s) in question.
Of course, numerous observations have been made that I've observed regarding the seeming necessity to be able to dispense truly staggering amounts of damage upon the Ebil bad guys in the tail end of the AoW, so it seems not entirely unwarranted to be able to dish out as much as we tend to find ourselves on the receiving end of.
Baleful Polymorph on the feral characters comes readily to mind ...
Pardon me friends, but I neglected to mention that we are now up to SIXTY-FOUR (64) total Player Character Deaths for the campaign through "Kings of the Rift". My original prediction in October 2006 was for 64 PC deaths for the entire Completed campaign. With the two final chapters yet to go, I think Turin's prediction of Eighty PC kills is attainable. We'll have to wait and see:)
After a lengthly discussion of the concept, and the simple fact that the last 2 chapters are estimated at having by far the most likely casualty rate per session of the entire campaign arc, it has become my estimate that 80 total character deaths for the session is on the low end, with 100 at the higher end of the guesstimation.
Of course, cleric 3.0 is obligated to finally surface for this coming session, as it is my understanding that the group is facing its final "shopping trip". Such a matter of timing is truly when the old cleric can step away from the table and #3 can enter play.
Long live (sh'ya, right^_^) Cardinal Tiberium.
Another great post.
Good play by play with the mother worm thing. Its interesting the the party can still get such a high death toll after cleverly avoiding most of the opposition in that chapter of the adventure path. I can't wait to find out what happens when the party faces down Dragotha.
Oh and btw, I have posted my groups adventures . Its under http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/community/gaming/campaignJournals/th ingsToDoInCauldronWhenYoureDead
We only play every other week,( I take turns Gm'ing ) so its not updated that often.
About the issue you have with all the crazy expansions , in my campaign we pretty much lay out which books we are using, (Core + all the complete books ) but if a person wants to play something else, or use a feat from a different source they have to provide a printed copy of the class, race, spell ext in question and have to get gm approval. So theoretically they "can " play any class, but most people seem to just avoid the hassle, and stick with whats infront of them.
Anyways, keep that body count high.
Teemuu, part of why Allen continues to rack 'em and stack 'em is that I'm more than happy to take my one turn in the spotlight for the session before settling back contentendly in my chair to await the carnage royale. Allen and I tend to work closely together with each other on his campaigns like this one, and most of the time I tend to humor his craving for in-game carcasses. I won't (usually) go so far as to butcher my fellow party members with malice aforethought.
Although that could easily take a different tack in a few days, since we're going to have a "pre-baby" session of the Age of Worms prior to a several week recess. In theory at least, my character could wind up racking up a higher body count than the bad guys ... and that's among the player characters...
Teemuu, part of why Allen continues to rack 'em and stack 'em is that I'm more than happy to take my one turn in the spotlight for the session before settling back contentendly in my chair to await the carnage royale. Allen and I tend to work closely together with each other on his campaigns like this one, and most of the time I tend to humor his craving for in-game carcasses. I won't (usually) go so far as to butcher my fellow party members with malice aforethought.
Well, I don't know Turin. The lads are often dumb enough to get themselves killed in spite of your best efforts to keep them alive. However, I encourage you to continue letting them sink or swim on their own, as you have done previously:)