Forgive my density, but I struggle with the three dimensional nature of some of the maps. Specifically in the caves of Erythnul, we have the horseshoe cavern. This is a small detail map showing a serpentine route no more than 5' wide. I understand that this is a plan view, but is it showing the area where the grimlock barbarian hides, the level with the chokers or both? I'm just not sure how to make the place clear to my players since it's not clear to me.
Also, how do the grimlocks get from the archers' ledge to the entrance to the caves? They presumably don't want to mess with the chokers or the chokers wouldn't still be there.
And finally, I have a similar question about the climb down to Moreto in A Gathering of Winds. The map scale indicates that each square is 25'. How do you DMs logistically work the players through this? At some point they're presumably clinging to the cliff fighting Wind Warriors (unless they're all flying down of course). Do you just make up a cliff face (draw a bunch of squiggles on the battle mat)?
I suspect that my questions are all related to the fact that I just don't have much experience under my belt with this kind of stuff. Any tips would be appreciated.
Forgive my density, but I struggle with the three dimensional nature of some of the maps. Specifically in the caves of Erythnul, we have the horseshoe cavern. This is a small detail map showing a serpentine route no more than 5' wide. I understand that this is a plan view, but is it showing the area where the grimlock barbarian hides, the level with the chokers or both? I'm just not sure how to make the place clear to my players since it's not clear to me.
The small detail map is for the upper passage. The lower passage is described (not on a map) as being roughly straight and 10' wide.
The rest of the bottom of the caves I just made up.
I'd need to re-read the module to offer an opinion on the grimlocks avoiding the chokers, and I haven't read a Gathering of Winds.
I suspect that my questions are all related to the fact that I just don't have much experience under my belt with this kind of stuff. Any tips would be appreciated.
In TFoE I had 2 maps, one top-down, and one from the side. For the most part I could keep track of where the players were with one miniature on whichever map was most applicable. Now, I'd suggest 1 mini for each map for each PC just to track where people are.
In TFoE I had 2 maps, one top-down, and one from the side. For the most part I could keep track of where the players were with one miniature on whichever map was most applicable. Now, I'd suggest 1 mini for each map for each PC just to track where people are.
Thanks for the tip. I like it.
As for the archers, I reread the adventure (yet again) and found the answer: "If the grimlocks wish to travel to area 13, they throw a rope to the kennel master, who then anchors it while they tie it down to the ledge."
It seems a little clumsy and weird since you have to risk life and limb to climb across a chasm to get out your front door, but it'll work.
As to the Gathering of Winds, do any of you who have done it have any suggestions about how you deal with the vertical maps in that adventure?
My group hasn't made it to A Gathering of Winds yet but I can tell you what I did for the Erthynul caves and other times that cliff battles are required ...
Let's say the cliff face is fifty feet vertically. I stack ten books (I have lots of hardcover D&D books at our play table at all times) in a graduated pile (like a set of stairs, each one just slightly offset from the one below it). Each "step" (protruding edge of a book) represents a five foot descent/ascent. Then a large number of miniatures can be arranged at differing heights of the cliff with a clear idea of everyone's exact position at all times. This is especially helpful when prolonged vertical battles occur (which is surprising often in AoW).
unless im mistaken the close up of the horseshoe passage is too lon by around 10' when compared to the side view. i must say we did this part 2 nites ago but it played out slightly differently. only 2 pcs ventured into the lowere caves so the snipers waited on firing. a tough battle later they killed the 2 chokers but shouted for help causing the worst ever rolling of climb checks ever. three 1's. anyhow i added a rope to the horse shoe cave so that the other grimlocks could get down to the cavern floor whilst avoiding the chokers cavern.
For A Gathering of Winds, the PCs will be high enough level at that point that they can be expected to have some options for flying. Plus, some of the prior adventures point out to them that flight is important (fighting Xyrzog in Hall of Harsh Reflections; fighting the flying dwarves in Champion's Games). It's likely that at least a couple of people will invest in a flight item (or even cheaper, slippers of spider climb) by that point.
You should probably be aware of the options available to any PCs who don't own those sorts of magic items by this point. The Fly spell has such a short duration that they may be reluctant to rely on it. Overland Flight has a longer duration, but they may not have it available (you could make a point of providing a scroll of it as treasure during a prior adventure, if you have a wizard in the group who'd be likely to add it to his spellbook).
Both Clerics and Druids can cast Air Walk, which is an excellent choice, as it lasts 10 minutes per level.
My group ended up using Wind Walk on most of the party; it's a 6th level cleric spell. It wasn't such a good choice, even though it lasts a really long time and can affect lots of people, because when they got attacked, all the Wind Walkers had to waste 5 rounds changing back to solid form to participate in the fight (or else lose the spell and get stranded), so most of my players ended up sitting around bored while a couple of others got to participate in the fight, which took extra-long due to the small number of combatants on the PCs side. (The two who were able to engage the enemy also insisted on following the Wind Warriors down instead of waiting with the others and coming up with a way to let everyone participate...)
If you're not close to this adventure yet, I'd not worry too much about it, just wait and see how they react to Xyrzog etc. and if that gets them to think about this stuff. You can also add appropriate items (scrolls with spells, the above-mentioned slippers, carpet or broom of flying) to any treasures they find before that point, if you want to give them a nudge in the right direction (or if you don't typically allow them to buy/commission just any item they want in your campaign).
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We just made it past the barbarian and chokers a couple nights ago and we had fun with a side view mapping approach for those encounters. It felt like old school d&d as our wizard(and mapper) drew out the side view on the battlemat as we progressed, and the miniatures were only being used for marching order and to see how high the PC's were on the iron spike cave wall. Tonight they face Grallak Kur :)
My group really liked the Three Faces of Evil dungeons. They had the most trouble with Beast and the Faceless One. The grimlocks were fairly easy to deal with, as my group had the fighter and barbarian jump from the cliff over to the ledge with the archers/snipers on it, a pretty amazing stunt! They needed a running start of course, and rolled some excellent Jump checks.
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my group had the fighter and barbarian jump from the cliff over to the ledge with the archers/snipers on it, a pretty amazing stunt!
Haha! Our party stood on the cliff face debating about a strategy for what seemed like hours. The wizard finally sent a dancing light down only to watch it "pop". The halfling rogue was able to spot the ledge though and pointed it out to the rest of the party. Once again they started debating about a plan when the half orc fighter finally had enough and grabbed the halfling and jumped down to the ledge. They also had to make some nice rolls to manage this, but it was great when they landed and mopped up the archers. Nice job on the writing for this adventure as my party usually doesn't talk about anything and this encounter had them babbling about all the possibilities that could be awaiting them down below. I guess after the temple of hextor they learned that some mobs actually use some strategy :)
My group really liked the Three Faces of Evil dungeons. They had the most trouble with Beast and the Faceless One. The grimlocks were fairly easy to deal with, as my group had the fighter and barbarian jump from the cliff over to the ledge with the archers/snipers on it, a pretty amazing stunt! They needed a running start of course, and rolled some excellent Jump checks.
They didn't hit the stalactites on the cave roof at the top of their jump arc?
My party had a lot of trouble with this section of the dungeon and it nearly turned into a TPK. Two members got down to the bottom of the horseshoe cave, before the shooting started, but no one could effectively attack the grimlocks on the ledge due to poor lighting and cover. The cast light on a stone and toss it trick didn't work because the grimlocks just kept kicking it back off the ledge. Finally, the two on the ground floor (bard and paladin) went through the lower passage to look for a way to get at the archers, got ambushed first by the chokers, then by the barbarian. They almost bled to death and were saved because the wizard webbed the archers, enabling wizard and cleric to come to their rescue, but it was a close call. When the party revived their fallen comrades, they finally took out the archers by burning the webs (overwhelming the grimlocks' sense of smell) and casting silence, then boosting the bard up to fight them. He made short work of the now blinded creatures. An interesting tactical encounter, to say the least--induced the party to make the mistake of splitting up.
Thanks for the suggestions with 3D maps.
The thread seems to be wandering from topic a bit, which is great by me. So, to continue the trend...
We just got through the temple of Hextor and I'm hoping to be able to steer the party into Erythnul next. I spent a fair amount of time reading about stat block errors in TFoE but due to a number of factors (6 hour game late into the night, inexperience on my part etc.)I managed to forget about them. Thus I found myself having Theldrick weild his heavy flail behind his steel shield. Drat. Uh, I meant light flail. Anyway, I've been trying to find time to search for errors elsewhere. What errors have you found? How did you deal with it? I haven't found any sort of official errata from the good folks at Paizo. This thread was helpful (http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/ageOfWorms/archives/disappointmentW ith2FacesOfEvil&page=1) but the compendium of errors are a bit spread out and interspersed with heated discussion of the merits of the module. I'd like to avoid discussing the merits and just get a plain and simple errata going. So, compiled from other threads etc...
*Temple of Hextor errors*
Theldrick, Garras, and Kendra all wield heavy flails with shields. Fix: Remove shields and reduce AC by 2 or change flails into light flails and LEAVE damage as a 1d8.
Tieflings wield greataxes but deal 1d8 damage. Fix: Change weapon to battleaxe.
Skeletons are wearing full plate with a movement of 30'. Fix: Reduce movement to 20'.
Unknown number of cultists. Fix: Decide how many you want! I believe Eric Mona recommended somewhere around 9 which worked for me.
Entrance to Temple of Hextor is 5' wide on one map and 10' on another. Fix: Pick one and stick with it.
*Caves of Erythnul*
Grimlocks not proficient with shields(?). Someone else suggested this, and I'm not clear enough on the rules regarding their proficiencies to figure this one out. Anyone else - help? Fix: Reduce AC by two.
Grimlocks can't attack lights which they can't sense. Fix: Grimlocks won't attack continual flame, everburning torches, or light spells. All else should be fair game.
Grimlock chieftain's raging damage is off. Fix: change from 1d12+6 to 1d12+9.
Grimlocks in area 18 and the guards defending Grallak are supposed to use longspears to fend enemies off, but no longspears are provided in their equipment. Fix: Give 'em longspears.
*Labyrinth of Vecna*
Acolytes haven't prepared message for the day. Fix: swap out some other 0-level for message. Note: I think the acolyte casting message would have to run and find the FO to point at him first according to the spell description. Is this correct? So maybe skip the whole message idea entirely?
That's what I've found. What else am I missing?
The cast light on a stone and toss it trick didn't work because the grimlocks just kept kicking it back off the ledge.
How'd the grimlocks know the pebbles had light on them, or, once the pebble has landed, which pebble is glowing? It indicates a grimlock knows how a torch or lantern is handled, but what knowledge would joe-schmoe archer have of the light spell? (For that matter, how would the kennelmaster know what color a krenshar's face is...)
I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just curious if this was an oversight, or if you have a good reason I can't think of. (The other questions are nore me rambling.)
Grimlocks can't attack lights which they can't sense. Fix: Grimlocks won't attack continual flame, everburning torches, or light spells. All else should be fair game.
If carried as a normal torch, it'd be fine for grimlocks to attack an everburning torch.
A question...
In the horseshoe cavern, what prevents the hungry chokers from climbing up the iron spikes in the wall?
Ultradan
If carried as a normal torch, it'd be fine for grimlocks to attack an everburning torch.
I think that they wouldn't target it specifically as a light source. An everburning torch just has continual flame cast on it and therefore there is no heat or smell. Since the grimlocks are blind I'm not sure how they'd perceive it as a light source and not just a stick or club.
Ultradan, I'm not sure that there is any reason they couldn't. Except they've made a nest and had success there once or twice (a couple of fallen grimlocks and some refuse). Perhaps they're hungry but not desparate enough to leave their comfy little hidey-hole.