Just a question but, in Nadroc's area of the Whispering Cairn, there is a large stone block holding down a pressure plate. Obviously, the fact that this stone prevents further access to parts of this area if not pushed over hearkens to the fact that its ability to be pushed over is on purpose. However, here's my problem. The Gas Trap has onset delay of two rounds right? Now I'm kinda fuzzy on the rules pertaining to Never-Miss traps but, couldn't the PC's just run down the now-open hallway to escape the poison? It would make sense if some sort of portcullis or wall dropped down, then the PC's would be stuck with the posion gas.
Just a thought.
Just a question but, in Nadroc's area of the Whispering Cairn, there is a large stone block holding down a pressure plate. Obviously, the fact that this stone prevents further access to parts of this area if not pushed over hearkens to the fact that its ability to be pushed over is on purpose. However, here's my problem. The Gas Trap has onset delay of two rounds right? Now I'm kinda fuzzy on the rules pertaining to Never-Miss traps but, couldn't the PC's just run down the now-open hallway to escape the poison? It would make sense if some sort of portcullis or wall dropped down, then the PC's would be stuck with the posion gas.
Just a thought.
I thought of the same thing. I figured I would tell them about the gas, ask for initiative rolls, give them two rounds to get their characters out of the room, and then spring the lurking strangler on them assuming they go down the tunnel. At the very least the trap will cause them to rush unprepared into another fight.
I don’t remember this encounter very well, but why tell your PC that there was a trap right away. Maybe the release of the gas is silent and can only be detected by a DC 20 listen check (and then maybe a wisdom check to determine what that hissing sound is). It makes sense that after pushing over a big ol’ stone that the PC would take a breather for a round or two. Just a thought.
Actually the onset delay is 3 rounds. You could just change the onset delay to 1 round or to instant. One round would give you a little drama and instant would would put a damper on a party that is doing really well. Another option if you would like to up the ECL and the drama a little you can have the Lurking Strangler attack immediately with a one round onset delay for the trap. This will make for a tough encounter. The lurking Strangler could possibly hear the PCs approach and ready an action, as soon as the block falls it strikes with its sleep ray. At the top of the next round the gas trap goes off and the Lurking Strangler uses its Cause Fear ray causing PCs to flee back to area 9. I agree the onset delay on a "never miss" trap is kind of funny..."Hey, wait! We need to wait for the trap to get us."
Traps like this aren't readily apparent. Thus, you shouldn't tip your PCs off that a trap leaking unseen gas into the air has been triggered. The fact that it can affect a lot of people in an area is offset by the fact that the PCs have 12 seconds that they may not be there to suffer its ill effects.
However, when they come back through there. There's a good possibility that the poison is still in the air. This is up to a DM's discretion to determine how long it will remain potent before dissipating harmlessly.
Having a rogue in the group that found the trap and knows about it should be the only reason to alert your PCs of its presence once they trigger it. If you want to make them nervous about it anyway, call for a DC 15 Listen check to hear the soft hissing sound. If they are still there after 2 rounds, well, now they know what was making the sound.
To quote from page 70 of the 3.5 DMG:
"Onset Delay: An onset delay is the amount of time between when the trap is sprung and when it deals damage. A never miss trap always has an onset delay."
Normally traps that never miss do not need to make an attack roll or allow a saving throw. Considering that the gas trap also allows a saving throw is a bit strange for a never miss trap, but not entirely impossible (actually, I think its an error). If I were going to run the AP I'd present the following modification to the trap:
The poison gets into the PCs lungs immediately, but the PCs don't have to make their first saving throws until 3 rounds have elapsed. This solves both problems simultaneously and gives the PCs time to drink an antitoxin or something. Of course, if I used this option the gas would have to be a bit deadlier. Making the gas invisible or odorless would also be funky, but then again an oilcloud gas trap sounds smelly and black!
Quick questions, since we're on the topic... I haven't ever used this kind of trap, at least not in the 3.5 rules, and my players are about to get there.
So I'm wondering if my interpretation is right: if PCs fail their first DCs (DC 13 Fort to resist), they receive 1 pt Str damage (not permanent), then in the 2nd round if they fail their DCs (same as above), then they get an additional 1d6 Str damage (also not permanent)? And there's no hit point damage with this, right? So if someone saves on both their DCs, they might have no penalties as a result?
Ways around this trap: none, unless they both detect the trap and manage to disable it... unlikely given the DisDev (20) at their level?
Quick questions, since we're on the topic... I haven't ever used this kind of trap, at least not in the 3.5 rules, and my players are about to get there.
So I'm wondering if my interpretation is right: if PCs fail their first DCs (DC 13 Fort to resist), they receive 1 pt Str damage (not permanent), then in the 2nd round if they fail their DCs (same as above), then they get an additional 1d6 Str damage (also not permanent)? And there's no hit point damage with this, right? So if someone saves on both their DCs, they might have no penalties as a result?
Ways around this trap: none, unless they both detect the trap and manage to disable it... unlikely given the DisDev (20) at their level?
All poisons, be it from a trap, injected, smeared on the skin, or whatever, require an initial IMMEDIATE saving throw and then a second save for the secondary effects 1 MINUTE later, whether they made the first save or not. If they make both saves, no harm no foul.
Some good reading for this is "Poison" on pg. 296 of the DMG.
I suggest some kind of Listen check (as I stated above) or perhaps a straight up Wisdom check to notice a peculiar odor in the air when the trap is sprung. However, since this is not a FATAL trap and it only deals temporary ability score damage, you shouldn't worry too much about poisoning your PCs with this relatively weak poison.
All poisons, be it from a trap, injected, smeared on the skin, or whatever, require an initial IMMEDIATE saving throw and then a second save for the secondary effects 1 MINUTE later, whether they made the first save or not. If they make both saves, no harm no foul.
Sorry - minute rather than round. But if the save DC is immediate, wouldn't any type of escape be impossible? I'm leaning toward the interpretation that the "3-round onset delay" is the delay of possible initial damage... not a delay for a slowly released gas (which they could run from and avoid the need for DCs altogether... though they'd run into the stangler). Noticing the trap (either spot or listen) and then running wouldn't matter with the former, but it would with the latter. So which would be correct - onset delay of damage, or onset delay for the release of the gas itself?
I could certainly see ruling that it takes three rounds for the gas to permeate the room. If that seems too lenient, a DM could always rule that there's enough gas to permeate the entire level or (perhaps more realistically) that it remains potent in the room for a few hours.
Personally, I took it to mean that the save was immediate, but it took three round for the poison to make its way through the bloodstream so that the effects were felt.
The way I plan to work it incorporating ideas in this thread is to call for a DC 15 Listen check for PCs in the room to notice the hissing sound. If they fail and stay in the room for 3 rounds, they are affected by the poison (must make the initial Fort save) and begin to notice the green gas cloud forming in the room. If they succeed/immediately leave the room I will spring the lurking strangler on them and the gas will disperse in 30 minutes (as per a fog cloud spell cast at 3rd level) unless a moderate or stronger wind disperses it more quickly.
Ran this trap with immediate saves. Didn't bother with any delay - for saves or effects. Both PC's made their initial saving throw, so no further consideration was needed. It did, however, put them on their toes for the rest of the level.
Ran this trap with immediate saves. Didn't bother with any delay - for saves or effects. Both PC's made their initial saving throw, so no further consideration was needed. It did, however, put them on their toes for the rest of the level.
I'm right with you Katana! People moan and groan about traps like these when they should just ignore what's written and say that the gas trap is sprung automatically. Problem solved.
On a separate note, the fact that all poisons require an immediate save and then another save 1 minute later has never sat well with me. I sometimes alter the onset times of poisons depending on what sort of poison it is. My decision on what the onset times are is completely arbitrary since none of the poisons are real-life poisons anyway.