So on Tuesday I got a contract in the mail and it's coming out next issue. I told a bunch of my friends, one of whom already knew from the preview in this month's issue....
Anyways, of course I'm as excited as all get out, and inspired to write a bunch more stuff. I put together a few ideas, and of course, get the same carpet pulled out from under my feet as the rest of you.
Bit of a roller coaster.
Craig Shackleton
The Rambling Scribe
Congratulations! Let me be first to say I'm proud to share the issue with you. Do dou have anything else out there or is this your first?
::Raises his cup of green welcome::
The Inscrutible Great Green God
Indeed! Congrats, Craig. I never got the chance to get into Dungeon.
Indeed! Congrats, Craig. I never got the chance to get into Dungeon.
I feel your pain, my plan of first getting a CW published, then moving on to adventures, crushed.
So now I am waiting for the new submission guidelines..........
They're printing your manuscript as is without a re-write?
They're printing your manuscript as is without a re-write?
It has been my incredibly meager experience that unless you are way way off the target set by your query (story structure, primary characters, use of language, game mechanics, grammer, etc...) the editors fix them up for you rather than writing a huge explination for what they want you to do and then waiting to see if you do it. In the 3 adventures that I have been primarily responsible for and the few others I have some level of connection to I have yet to see a rewrite. Then again most of them have come through with relatively minor changes (swapping characters, trimming the fat, touching up stats, fixing grammer, reoganization, and the like).
GGG
Congrats to you Craig, and you too Great Green One. I was supposed to get an adventure in issue 149, but with the tragic end of DUNGEON (and DRAGON) as Paizo magazines, I won't be holding my breath. :-(
It has been my incredibly meager experience that unless you are way way off the target set by your query (story structure, primary characters, use of language, game mechanics, grammer, etc...) the editors fix them up for you rather than writing a huge explination for what they want you to do and then waiting to see if you do it.
Weird. That's totally unexpected.
Contributor
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Thanks to all for your congratulations etc.
G-cubed: I was previously published way back in Issue 76, an adventure called "Earth Tones" under 2E of course. More recently I had "Three Dragon Readings" in Dragon 346.
Not to toot my own horn too much, but I'm proud of my record. While This will only be my third publication, that's off only seven query letters. The bad part is that I had two additional greenlights that never got written.
Helium3: That is correct there were no revisions by me. Which is what made me assume they had dropped it, because my previous adventure was heavilly revised. Mind you, I had to cut it by 6000 words, whereas my latest was pretty bang on the word count.
Craig Shackleton,
The Rambling Scribe
...The bad part is that I had two additional greenlights that never got written...
Which reminds me, what about stuff that was greenlit AND written?
Well technically Paizo (and one would assume Wizards should they inherit some or all of the Black Hole) always had the option of holding on to a finished manuscript for a year or two and then saying 'no' for whatever reason. In fact that happened to me once or twice. As for what is going to happen now... I don't think the principals involved even know yet.
I figure I'll give 'em ten minutes or so... until then I'll wait for the magna opus that is Dread Pagoda of the Inscrutable Ones!!!
;)
GGG
So here's a funny (ironic, not Ha Ha) story.
Over a year ago I submitted an adventure to Dungeon. I received a notice that it was received, and then nothing. [..]
So on Tuesday I got a contract in the mail and it's coming out next issue.
Congratulations ;)
I have a query from.. I think October. I haven't received even a confirmation :( (it's something about EtCR, in case somebody from the editors is watching).
1765th Post Whoohoo! Such an accomplishment deserves a day off from work. Heh, who am I kidding I already have the day off.
Anyhow, I felt compelled to post on this thread for more than just sentiment. Turns out that an actual "Black Hole" (No Hags allowed) adventure of mine made it to "print" in the Neo-Digital-Dungeon. Witching Season finally hit the public after bouncing back and forth between the WotC and Paizo offices. Get it while it's free!
Are there any other Black Hole projects swirling out there in the void? Let us know because we are only a few months away from the event horizon, at which point they all get compacted down into 4e!
;)
-GGG
Congrats, you dog! (god?) Looks like a great module.
Nah, I tried another taboo subject involving princesses and dragons, but was shot down...again.
Not to fear, Ive got other things in the works ;)
Wow.
Blast from the past to see this thread rolling and rocking again.
Wow.
And! Congrats GGG! I just downloaded Witching Season and glanced through it! Well done my man! Rock solid!
F2K? Hitchcock? Koldoon? Pett? Shroomy? Simcoe? Talion09? Were-platypus? Zherog? I know there's a bunch of others that used to play around here, where y'all at? Represent!
And Sutter the Render (yes, I called him that!), what you been up to?
F2K? Hitchcock? Koldoon? Pett? Shroomy? Simcoe? Talion09? Were-platypus? Zherog? I know there's a bunch of others that used to play around here, where y'all at? Represent!
And Sutter the Render (yes, I called him that!), what you been up to?
Greer? Greer? Greer?
WTF, Manning?! I don't rank now? Well, here I am anyway. I recall you once called me the Desert Assassin and we stormed the Renton compound together. Ah, glory days. (at least one of us remembers!) ;)
Oh crap in a hat! I forgot the man who started it all!
*Bows and scrapes*
*Offers pinky cut from right hand*
*Passes out*
Dude!
You and me were part of the Band of Five that Wissel tagged us. Oh geez! No excuses, wasnt even drinking last night.
Id still follow you into Hell!
Just took a look at the first post, it's from 26th of March 2005. Almost 3 years.
GGG: good for you, I actually liked the adventure, even though it uses that Delve format which I hate.
GREER! The man who created a black hole with one post! YOU ARE A GOD TO ME!
Greer - Cad
I'm pro-4e and a masochist, so I can usually be found in the 4th Edition forum. Whether any of my submissions will ever escape this singularity in some form, who knows?
Ha! We tricked Wizards into taking our black hole!
It kept sucking all the action figures off of our desks. :-(
Unfortunately, it seems to have also pulled in the GSL.
Greer - Cad
I assume you mean that in the most affectionate way. ;)
Oh, and thanks for ruining my night of At the Mountains of Madness last night, Pett. Lovecraft starts talking about Mnar and all of a sudden all I can think of is the insane, nonsensical messageboard ramblings of some crazy old Brit.
Oh, and thanks for ruining my night of At the Mountains of Madness last night, Pett. Lovecraft starts talking about Mnar and all of a sudden all I can think of is the insane, nonsensical messageboard ramblings of some crazy old Brit.
But all the kids are doing it.
Mnar,
-Great Green Outer God
I almost soiled myself when I saw this thread pop up again. Thanks for all the memories, everyone....and thanks again Paizo for giving me a chance to finally get some D&D writing published...it only took 23 years from the first time Dragon's 1982 "Dungeon Design Contest" sucked one of my submissions into a black hole to the first time Paizo said "hmmmm...okay....send us something on this."
Ashavan, Steve Greer, Tom Ganz and Great Green God--couldn't have done it without you guys, my fellow original WCs...
Congratulations Matt!!! Witching Season rocks!
Congrats GGG.
Yeah missed this thread-i joined late and it took me nearly a week to escape the black hole... err... readh the whole thing... err decide to skip to the curret bits. *grin*
So if the black hole is gone now and in the hands of Wizards what is the status of submissions to Paizo? Is Paizo accepting open submissions for things like GameMastery Modules? Given some other forum posts, I suspect not, but I wanted to ask, as an aspiring, and often rejected, author and designer.
Is the best route to still bombard Dragon and Dungeon with submissions and hope that someone notices? Are there other good routes? Kobold Quarterly? Signs & Portents? Any suggestions from folks who have met with success? Is it best to wait out this tumultuous time and update to 4th Edition? Does that even matter? Have I posted enough fragmented questions? Are there more I could write? Anyone?
Just write and publish your own, and then wait for the money to come flooding in!
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Contributor
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That's a tough question.
Kobold Quarterly is a place to try, but since they are quarterly, they don't have as much room as Dragon and dungeon did.
The online versions of Dragon and dungeon don't seem to be putting out much material. I had heard that they had all the 3.5 stuff they needed, but then I wonder where it all is? You might get some success if you fired in a short crunch-lite article.
There are lots of small companies putting out stuff for other systems looking for writers. Usually they pay less and you have to know their system.
Paizo is not accepting open submissions right now. To write for them you need to compete in their next open call or RPGSuperstar competition, and the competition there is fiercer than the black hole ever was. They may open submission up again someday, but I'm somewhat doubtful. The nature of their business has changed, and part of that change seems to be contracting the work they want done rather than sifting through a pile of queries for something that looks good. Which probably makes James Sutter happy.
When 4E comes out I pretty much gaurantee that there will be an overload of submissions to the DDI that will again be pretty fierce, and it will take a while to settle down. Especially because I imagine that they are lining up the first few months of material in-house or through established freelancers who have access to 4E already.
So I don't know what to tell you. It's a tumultuous time in the industry, but it seems like tumultuous times are almost as common as times of stability. Opportunities change, but are always out there. It's just a question of finding an opportunity that works for you.
Good Luck!
Just write and publish your own, and then wait for the money to come flooding in!
I've considered becoming an E-publisher just so I can charge people ;>
I read on Enworld that 100 copies sold is actually quite a good run for an e-publisher ;<
Just write and publish your own, and then wait for the money to come flooding in!I've considered becoming an E-publisher just so I can charge people ;>
I read on Enworld that 100 copies sold is actually quite a good run for an e-publisher ;<
It's true the RPG industry is shrinking faster than a Polar Bear Club member in January. The only way to fight back is to take the time to teach someone else the game (preferably someone who still has Summer vacation). Young kids can learn so much from Role-Playing, stuff you just don't get with your WOW subscription.
Anyhow cheers.
The Great Green God
Just write and publish your own, and then wait for the money to come flooding in!
Ha!
;)
GGG
Just write and publish your own, and then wait for the money to come flooding in!
ROFLMAO That's a good one, man, I needed a good joke to get my day going. Thanks. :P
Shadowrun: Urban Kaos
*coughclickonmyadscough*
Necromancer still accepts open submissions but outside of that and Mongoose's Signs & Portents I haven't found anything. Dungeon and Dragon are really all there is right now for d20 options and the best and easiest place to start is still in d20. I don't know what is up with Wizards and the DDI thing but I have bombarded them with (well, four) adventure and side trek pitches since November and haven't heard back anything. Two month turn around? Hmmm, November to March is... Anyway, with the edition change and DDI the opportunity for unpublished authors to break in and get some clout has dramatically dried up.
I was almost certain that Paizo wasn't accepting anything based on staff comments other places in the forums and their product lineup looks pretty full for a long way out. You can tell magazine editors are in charge because it's laid out so far in advance, it's like they are preparing for the crunch that doesn't come on the same way as arranging a magazine.
I'm gonna take back my Wizards slush and start shopping it elsewhere. The market and opportunity for unclouted RPG designers is still downright inviting and hospitable compared to the fiction market. *shudder* I played in that sandbox too damn long...
Of course, I'm not holing my breath about any of my RPG projects outside the one above mentioned. (You know you love Shadowrun.)
I'm gonna take back my Wizards slush and start shopping it elsewhere. The market and opportunity for unclouted RPG designers is still downright inviting and hospitable compared to the fiction market. *shudder* I played in that sandbox too damn long...
And where are you going to shop it?
I sent Wizards all the stuff that got lost in the black hole, but they've got their own version it seems. Strangely, they recently did a side trek that looked remarkedly similar to one of my campaign workbooks. But they do say that great minds think alike ;>
And where are you going to shop it?
That's the $20,000 question.
In all seriousness, I wish I had the resources (and time) to publish on my own. At this time in the market, d20 3.5e is pretty dead sales-wise. Paizo is still reporting decent sales, but everyone else is watching their sales drop like a Stone Golem in the Elemental Plane of Air.I think the best thing for RPG writers to do is to weather the storm in non-d20 lines until the GSL kicks in. Even then, it's not entirely clear how lenient/flexible the GSL will be compared to the OGL.
The OGL was a desktop publisher's dream come true. The GSL doesn't appear to be.
And where are you going to shop it?
Necromancer and Mongoose. Necromancer accepts open submissions for adventures and such and Mongoose's Signs & Portents magazine accepts open submissions for articles and adventures though they prefer they are tied to one of their settings. I could probably convert my goblin vendetta adventure to Conan...
I tried the desktop publishing thing with a fiction line but it was so much work and the money so minuscule it wasn't worth the effort and gave it up. I'm trying the ad supported website thing to see how it works out but I'm not sure if the material I'm choosing will generate enough traffic to actually generate a worthwhile income.
My wife tried something similar but didn't keep up with it and then I heard about some success stories and how to reproduce that on the radio (laugh all you want but I was listening to John Tesh while I was at work one night). So now I'm trying it out with game related material. I haven't made any money yet but it's only been a week or two.
And where are you going to shop it?
That's the $20,000 question.
In all seriousness, I wish I had the resources (and time) to publish on my own. At this time in the market, d20 3.5e is pretty dead sales-wise. Paizo is still reporting decent sales, but everyone else is watching their sales drop like a Stone Golem in the Elemental Plane of Air.
I think the best thing for RPG writers to do is to weather the storm in non-d20 lines until the GSL kicks in. Even then, it's not entirely clear how lenient/flexible the GSL will be compared to the OGL.
The OGL was a desktop publisher's dream come true. The GSL doesn't appear to be.
1) where do you get your numbers from (Paizo and other publisher sales)?
2) I did give the self-publishing some thought, so if 100 copies sold is a good run. Then if your PDF costs $2 you make $200. And with the whole euro-dollar conversion rate that isn't all that much.3) If the whole 4e / 3.5 leads to a fracturing of the market wouldn't that give a 3.5 publisher a niche market? Although the number of 2e publishers is zero(?), the OGL changed everything, so maybe the 3.5 market will remain viable.
1) where do you get your numbers from (Paizo and other publisher sales)?
Mostly from ENworld.org. Erik Mona has stated there that Pathfinder and their module series are doing quite well for them.
EN Publishing has had a very steep drop in sales since the 4e announcement. "Morrus" (his EN World username) runs all of their publishing efforts and cited an 80% drop. He's also said that he's talked with other publishers who've had a similar issue.Additionally, I work/worked as a line editor on EN Publishing's Faction Folio series. I know the figures (but can't divulge them), and there is indeed a big difference.
Of course, other factors could be at play, but most publishers point to steady sales before the 4e announcement and then a near dead-stop after.
... And let me clarify that this is all forum chatter, I have no numbers of my own except Faction Folio's.
Solid numbers or no, I'm inclined t believe it. It makes sense logically that most folks are going to hold out and spend money on the new edition when it's released. Just because people don't have to upgrade doesn't mean they don't feel like they are wasting money on products that will be obsolete in a few months.
I remeber hearing similar reports from White Wolf when they announced the end of the old World of Darkness line. They announced it and people ate it up until they realized there was going to be a new edition by the end of the year. From what I remember they claimed it went well and the sales didn't die but there was still a noticeable drop after the announcement.
Wizards is claiming their current material will be compatible or easily upgradeable to 4th Ed but I'm willing to bet the sales still suck. It's clear they're not releasing the best they have to offer with Dungeon and Dragon and that's free. Why waste time and effort on something that will be pointless in a couple of months when you could work on something great that is a few months off? I think we'll see a surge of great stuff from Wizards while everyone else is trying to play catchup and recover from this slump.
It's clear they're not releasing the best they have to offer with Dungeon and Dragon and that's free. Why waste time and effort on something that will be pointless in a couple of months when you could work on something great that is a few months off? I think we'll see a surge of great stuff from Wizards while everyone else is trying to play catchup and recover from this slump.
Why deliver quality stuff for Dragon and Dungeon? Well, I am not a marketing guru, but I would say it would give an indication of what to expect in the future. You know the future when your customer needs to pay $10 to see your content?
I am not a big DnD spender, I've bought a few dungeon and pathfinders but I mostly use them for ideas and as a guide to improve my DM-ing. But if you could split up the number between DM and player market would you still see the same numbers => are both players and DM's in a holding pattern?
But if you could split up the number between DM and player market would you still see the same numbers => are both players and DM's in a holding pattern?
I have no numbers to back up my theories but I would suspect so. I'm not a big D&D spender either. I purchase a few books that catch my eye but most of my money goes into World of Darkness books. The quality is more consistent and useful.
I've ranted about the whole Dungeon and Dragon thing enough in the past so I won't get into it again here. Yeah, they should be putting their all into DDI but they clearly are not. We've all been over this before however...
It's really hard to get published in the current gaming market. And I expect it will remain so. Dragon and Dungeon's online incarnations will be harder to break into, in part because there will be a learning curve for the rules. Knowing rules well enough to play a game is vastly different than knowing them well enough to write in a system.
Anyway... I too miss the black hole. It was nice to at least have the hope of publication. There are still some publication opportunities, but I have to say, they're pretty limited at the moment. I've taken the break to do some work on some of my fiction writing so I can start sending out manuscripts again.
- Koldoon
I've taken the break to do some work on some of my fiction writing so I can start sending out manuscripts again.
The fiction market is a massive pain in the ass, trust me, I have been beating my head against that wall for years now. The catch-22 is that in order to get published you need an agent and in order to get an agent you need to be published. This is a gross oversimplification but is fundamentally true. Expect to spend a fortune in postage sending out your stories to magazines and such, none that pay, and meet with some publication success. However, when you list those credits expect agents to not recognize them as publishing credits because they are too small print runs or electronic based.
It's a total pain in the ass.