Need Some Clarification About Book 1 *spoilers*


Season of Ghosts


Hey all, i just started reading book 1 and excited to start playing, but i'm kind of confused about the whole reset when it comes to the PCs.

So from what i understand for 114 years, the resets went smoothly.
Now, at the 115th time, due to the disruption of Mago Kai and the death of Ugly Cute
the influence of Kugaptee grew and found its way into the mindscape by manifesting monsters at the final days of summer during the festival.

In every previous reset, the PCs, being the abductees, wake up at the normal clearing and life goes on as normal before the next reset.
Every other villagers also resets at that time to continue the new cycle.
What i don't understand is how come this time the PCs wake up in a different clearing after being abducted the day before, but every other villager resets as normal?
I understand the monsters, not being part of the reset cycle, do not reset and continue to rampage after the reset, But the PCs should still reset to the clearing they were at before the first reset.
After all, they were abducted in the day before the reset, so even if they were taken to a different clearing, shouldn't they reset at the usual clearing like every other cycle?

Scarab Sages

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There is a single line in the book that says the PCs were being dragged off by monsters to be eaten until they were rescued by ugly-cute. How the PCs slept through that I do not know. Maybe the reset and the waking of the demon combined in some unexpected way to prevent the party from waking? I know at least Japanese folklore is replete with monsters that can abscond with people in their sleep too, so maybe that’s it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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A bit of clarification... or at least as much clarification as I can present when it comes to complicated narrative devices like these...

Spoiler:
All of this is a side effect of the strange way the mindscape interacts with the PCs (who reset normally) and their antagonist noppera-bos (who do not). There wasn't a lot of room in the Adventure Path to get super detailed in how the reset works in game terms, and time travel paradoxes and all that are already pretty complicated, so we decided to leave things pretty vague here—the point is that the PCs should wake up in strange circumstances to let them know something weird happened.

The PCs getting dragged off by noppera-bos and those monsters in turn being run off by Ugly Cute happens not long after the time loop resets. The PCs not waking up during these events is a bit of hand-waving, yeah, but you can explain it as them being caught up in the whole transition through the loop leaving them insensible for a few hours. Also, noppera-bos are very good at trickery and deception, and also good at stealth—they'd be able to drag off the PCs without waking them if they took care, and Ugly Cute's arrival could have happened in a way where the noppera-bos heard him coming, set the PCs down, then went to investigate only to be surprised to be facing a giant spider that then ran them off, so that fight didn't necessarily happen in the middle of the slumbering party.

In the end, though, since these events take place before play begins, we get to do a lot of handwaving. Similar to how "Souls for Smuggler's Shiv" deliberate started AFTER the PCs survived a shipwreck, so that the adventure could begin with them washing up on shore without subjecting 1st level PCs to a devastating disaster that either would likely have killed them or that (more unlikely) they might even find a way to avert, the events that happen JUST BEFORE the players take over their characters are firmly in the control of the background setup.

AKA: The PCs didn't wake up becuase that's not how the story set things up.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

ALL that said, though...

If the backstory of those events is too complicated, or you fear it'll confuse or distract the PCs too much... the simplest solution is to:

Spoiler:
Just cut the whole "dragged off by noppera-bo who were then themselves chased off by Ugly Cute" element entirely. In this case, the PCs wake up in the same place they went to sleep and nothing seems strange until they're attacked by talking centipedes. There's less foreshadowing in this case, and you'll potentially need to adjust a few other things in how you encourage/guide the PCs back to Willowshore rather than end up with them being lost in the woods, but once they break cover from the forest and see the strange situation in town, things will proceed as normal from there.


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James Jacobs wrote:

ALL that said, though...

If the backstory of those events is too complicated, or you fear it'll confuse or distract the PCs too much... the simplest solution is to:

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks a lot for the response!

This is actually what i thought about doing with a little twist.
Maybe the PCs wake up next to a corpse of another NPC abductee that was killed in the clearing by the noppera-bos, only to be saved at the last second by Ugly-Cute.
This sets the scene pretty nicely for encouraging the PCs.
They could also see the spider's tracks at the clearing and compare them to the ones at the shrine, making them believe that maybe he did the killing, only to find out later he was the rescuer.

Scarab Sages

Fun idea! If you want to do as James Jacob’s said and don’t have the PCs dragged off, you could instead have the PCs have nightmares about what’s happening to let them know something’s odd. I’m going to do that for my Leshy PC. Since leshy’s are nature spirits and when they ‘die’ their spirit just releases from his body, but that didn’t happen here, that’s a good way to add in some subtle foreshadowing.


VampByDay wrote:
Fun idea! If you want to do as James Jacob’s said and don’t have the PCs dragged off, you could instead have the PCs have nightmares about what’s happening to let them know something’s odd. I’m going to do that for my Leshy PC. Since leshy’s are nature spirits and when they ‘die’ their spirit just releases from his body, but that didn’t happen here, that’s a good way to add in some subtle foreshadowing.

Yep, i am going to make sure they know something if off.

I think the dragged to a different location will not go well with my players, as they will try to understand how it happened and they will not accept handwave explanation.


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Jumping in a little late, but the higher-level Noppera-Bos have access to sleep magic, so in my imagination they just cast that on the party as part of their routine for dragging them away.


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What I found a tiny bit harder to explain/understand was the idea that all residents of Willowshore were asleep when the governor's ritual failed and killed everyone. My interpretation is that even if they were awake, the trauma of being killed in the ritual means they don't remember the final few minutes of their lives.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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CuddlyZombie wrote:
What I found a tiny bit harder to explain/understand was the idea that all residents of Willowshore were asleep when the governor's ritual failed and killed everyone. My interpretation is that even if they were awake, the trauma of being killed in the ritual means they don't remember the final few minutes of their lives.

That element is equal parts trying to be quick and succinct but also trying not to hard-code the devastating trauma of an entire town being murdered.

In game terms, the dangers unleashed upon the people of Willowshore were far in excess of anyone being able to do something about it, so if it helps explain and understand how everyone in Willowshore was slain, then assume that the evil spriits/fiends released upon the town not only outnumbered the populace but outleveled them. It's like everyone in town being faced with their own personal foe who's at least (if not more) 5 levels higher than them, but didn't just quickly kill them off. The trauma of that violence and death is absolutely the type of thing that no one would remember, and the whole point of the mindscape itself is to obscure that element. On the one hand it's the mindscape protecting those within from the agony of what they endured. And on the other it's the evil influence obscuring the truth so that no one tries to fight back. Both of those things at the same time can exist.

But saying "It all happened when the town was asleep" saves wordcount on something that HAS to happen in order for the adventure to take place, but doesn't HAVE to be specifically detailed in order to still remain true.


CuddlyZombie wrote:
Jumping in a little late, but the higher-level Noppera-Bos have access to sleep magic, so in my imagination they just cast that on the party as part of their routine for dragging them away.

Oh I like this. I'm thinking of making a big thing about how the PCs go to sleep in this great "party tent" type pavilion thing set up for them and then they wake up in the dirt somewhere and have no idea how they got there. If they can get back to the pavilion they can get their stuff but the place has been trashed. If they waste too much time, the mist starts to descend and the woods get progressively less safe.

To answer the post, (in my game) the PCs reset to the pavilion. Afterwards, they are found by monsters, enchanted so that they don't wake up, and carried off while they are still sleeping. They are saved by Ugly Cute, but they wont find this out for some time.

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