Pathfinder Guns & Gears (Remastered)

Announced for February! Product images and descriptions are not final and are subject to change. :)

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If you already have the Guns & Gears PDF, you'll get the remaster version of the download automatically just like you would when we release a new printing with errata.

To manage expectation: We have been told that the pagination of this book should be the same as the pre-remaster one, meaning that all the content should be on the same page as it was before. So if there's stuff "changed" or "replaced", it need to take exactly the same space as before. So the changes should be minor. There (most probably) won't be Champion-level of "remaster" here.
My guess would be that the biggest changes should be either already in the Errata page, or de-OGLification (there's not a lot of that here, as D&D never really injected any guns/technology in the OGL).

zergtitan wrote:

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If you already have the Guns & Gears PDF, you'll get the remaster version of the download automatically just like you would when we release a new printing with errata.

The page state its included in the subscription, does that mean that subcriber that already had the pre-remaster version will receive a duplicate physical copy as well as the PDF update, and if so is there a way to skip it?

Michael Sayre wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If you already have the Guns & Gears PDF, you'll get the remaster version of the download automatically just like you would when we release a new printing with errata.

The page state its included in the subscription, does that mean that subcriber that already had the pre-remaster version will receive a duplicate physical copy as well as the PDF update, and if so is there a way to skip it?

Yup, just contact customer service or generate a ticket when the order is created

Oooh nice. Not that I really need a second GnG but I'm glad to see the non-core classes get a little touch up, even if it's only minor.

Will the print version get the new Remaster standard spine, like Howl of the Wild, or will it keep the yellow custom spine?

Will there be a sketch cover by chance?

Will there be a sketch cover by chance?

Unfortunately, at this time there are no plans for this to have a Sketch Cover. -mi

If I preorder, will I be charged at checkout or when the book is being prepared for shipping?

When shipping.

zergtitan wrote:

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If you already have the Guns & Gears PDF, you'll get the remaster version of the download automatically just like you would when we release a new printing with errata.

Any chance of seeing the changed list before it is printed? So as subscribers we can determine if we want to skip of not.

Michael Sayre wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If we already got the previous pre-remaster version via subscription, will we be getting the remaster PDF update? or is this a completely different book?

If you already have the Guns & Gears PDF, you'll get the remaster version of the download automatically just like you would when we release a new printing with errata.

Any chance of seeing the changed list before it is printed? So as subscribers we can determine if we want to skip of not.

At the very minimum, you can look at the Pathfinder errata page, in the Guns & Gear section, that the MINIMUM amount of changes that will be there.

OMG they are redoing G&G.
siege engines, gadgets
options for battlefields large and small. So are we going to start seeing maps that are 100s of feet where range really matters or are we still going to be stuck where characters will be in melee in the first round? or is this for large scale battles? maybe massive ordinance like big bombs from airships... probably not.

I'm still looking forward to the additions you all make to the game

BTW is secret of magic next or Dark archive?

OMG they are redoing G&G.

siege engines, gadgets
options for battlefields large and small. So are we going to start seeing maps that are 100s of feet where range really matters or are we still going to be stuck where characters will be in melee in the first round? or is this for large scale battles? maybe massive ordinance like big bombs from airships... probably not.

I'm still looking forward to the additions you all make to the game

BTW is secret of magic next or Dark archive?

This is not a "redo", it's a "reprint with errata". The pagination will be the same. So no big major changes. No new mechanics.

What you talk about might be in the future "Battle Cry!" book that will have commander and guardian... but even then, the actual limitation of adventure maps is the paper format. They CAN'T make maps too big and still having them readable in actual physical books.

BTW is secret of magic next or Dark archive?

I would not expect them to do the same kind of a smaller Remaster update (maintaining the same page count and layout with errata) to SoM like they are doing to G&G. They have already told us that the Runelord archetype is getting remastered in Lost Omens Rival Academies and many of the spells in SoM (Gouging Claws, Mud Pit, etc.) got moved to Player Core and Player Core 2, the content of those 8 pages written for the schools of magic are as good as scrapped thanks to the OGL crisis, and I’m sure there is more that I have missed that has already been taken from SoM and remastered in a newer book.

With that much material taken from the book already, if it does come back, it will be a very different book with a much more intensive remastered iteration with that much of a page and word count taken out.

IF they even take that approach…

Is there a way to get on a "no future re-release books" list for subscribers? Or is the expectation that we make a new customer service request every time y'all re-release a book?

I still need to find a good place to donate my current remaster books after finding out my local library doesn't take book donations.

So will gunslingers and inventors get a remaster retrain for society play since this is getting released after the free remaster rebuild expires?

"and the remastered automaton ancestry"

How remastered we talking?

I feel like there are a ton of people taking remaster to mean a PC/PC2 style rework of the book. Those people are going to be disappointed I think. I hope people aren't upset when it comes out and few things changed.

That's an interesting point. GMC and PC1 barely changed anything, and I sort of expect the same for G&G. PC2 is the freshest thing on people's minds though and have certainly pushed the discussions toward an increased scope regarding what may change in a remaster.

I feel like there are a ton of people taking remaster to mean a PC/PC2 style rework of the book. Those people are going to be disappointed I think. I hope people aren't upset when it comes out and few things changed.

The remastered game is still 98% the same game with tweaks for licensing, errata, and the occasional glow up. It would probably be good for folks to keep that in mind, yes.

I hope this means that the inventor and the gunslinger are getting a full-on rework.

I hope this means that the inventor and the gunslinger are getting a full-on rework.

The biggest thing that was said was a feature that made a gun gunslinger and a crossbow gunslinger a bit more different. But nothing much else.

Sayre posted this in another thread, and I would look at this, and base my expectation as "only what is written there, nothing more", and be happily surprised if the book end up being anything more on release.

Guns & Gears is out of print and due for a new print run, so the thousands of new customers we've picked up in the last two years can't buy it, and our 3pp and licensed partners have some licensing difficulties to navigate with it being on the OGL instead of the ORC. The remastered version allows us to put out a run with the errata, do any final clean-ups to sync language and traits with the current version of the game, move it to the new license so our partners can use it easily and confidently in their products, and get one of the best-selling books of the edition back on shelves for new customers.

And on reddit:

If you have the PDF, it will be automatically updated to the remastered version. This is in the same vein as the Beginner Box remastered version we dropped earlier in the year, where it's the same product with the same page references but everything updated to use the ORC license and reflect changes like the removal of alignment or flat-footed being changed to off-guard, as well as errata updates and the like.

And on Discord:

It's first and foremost about getting the license updated and getting the new print run (it's been sold out for awhile) pushed out in a way that's best for everyone (errata included, license in place for 3pps, etc.)

It's also an opportunity for little touch ups that go beyond the errata we've done so far. For example, singular expertise on the gunslinger isn't necessary anymore because we removed the flawed archetype architecture that necessitated it, so now that PC2 is out we have an opportunity to put something a little more spicy in that space.

But other books that reference pages in G&G won't be invalidated because doing this as a straight remaster of the original product allows us to preserve the pagination.
[... in another post a couple minute later ...]
It adds an additional tidbit of differentiation between crossbow and firearm gunslingers and gives the gunslinger a little something I always wanted it to have and which no one can stop me from giving it now 😆

(I quoted all of these so that the information is all in the same place. If something looks weird to you, it MIGHT be becasue I put these out of context, so don't judge Mike for these! That's like the LAST thing I want. Thanks!)

So if we were subscribers when this originally came out we will get the updated pdf or do we need to buy the book again?

So if we were subscribers when this originally came out we will get the updated pdf or do we need to buy the book again?

If you own the .PDF, you'll get the Remastered .PDF when it comes out.

I appreciate the separate product page, that will make it easier to keep track of the release.

On our merry way to Arcadia ?

What you talk about might be in the future "Battle Cry!" book that will have commander and guardian...

Let me guess.. "Battle Cry! will be a GENCon 2025 release.

I really hope most other OGL books get a similar remaster instead of the Divine Mysteries approach, including the Lost Omens books. Obviously some of them are not viable for this, Secrets of Magic and Character Guide come to mind as well as... Really any adventure, but I hope that books like Dark Archive or Legends can have a relatively simple remaster pass and be in tip-top shape once again.

Elfteiroh wrote:

What you talk about might be in the future "Battle Cry!" book that will have commander and guardian...

Let me guess.. "Battle Cry! will be a GENCon 2025 release.

Yep!

For a company that said that they wanted fewer classes in second edition than there were in first they seem to be rapidly approaching obviating that statement (there were 44 classes in PF1, these latest two make 29 (I think) in PF2. Heh. I was going to say that there are nowhere near as many archetypes in PF2 as there were prestige classes in PF1, but then I counted them: 151 archetypes vs. 115 prestige classes. It seems the goal has been missed -- or abandoned. <shrug>

When did they say that?

James Jacobs said back when PF2 first debuted. Probably somewhere here in a thread.

Oh, probably not a hard guideline then.

Changes of mind are permitted. :-)

TBF, that was 100% only talking about classes, not Archetypes. And at 2 classes per years, we're ~7-8 years away from meeting PF1's total. So yeah. To me it sounds like it fits. xD
If you want to combine classes and archetypes in PF2, at least count the class archetypes in PF1 too. :P

TBF though JJ, as he HIMSELF repeat again and again, doesn't work on the rule aspect of things, and tehse things are always his personal opinion. Like it have been a couple years since he said there was "maybe too many ancestries" in his opinion. They still release more.

But yeah. His comments still hold true for classes. xD

For a company that said that they wanted fewer classes in second edition than there were in first they seem to be rapidly approaching obviating that statement (there were 44 classes in PF1, these latest two make 29 (I think) in PF2. Heh. I was going to say that there are nowhere near as many archetypes in PF2 as there were prestige classes in PF1, but then I counted them: 151 archetypes vs. 115 prestige classes. It seems the goal has been missed -- or abandoned. <shrug>

I know the bullet points say two "new" classes but like, no they aren't? We've had Gunslinger and Inventor for a while now, and we have good reason to believe they're not getting changed too much, none of the book is. We're only at 29 if a) we count playtest classes which is admittedly reasonable, I tend to as well, and b) we double-count remastered classes, but if we do that make sure to count the 16 from the CRB and APG. Next playtest we'll probably have 29 though. Don't mind it at all, they're all great. Except Wizard. And maybe Oracle.