Pathfinder Adventure Path #187: The Seventh Arch (Gatewalkers 1 of 3)

Announced for January! Product image and description are not final and may be subject to change.

I ain't afraid of no gate!

Sounds fabulous.

From the brief bits of info I got from friends and folks doing recaps, I was kind of unenthused about this one.

Seeing a Castrovel gazetteer in the back completely changes that.

Ah, so we already get to see how PF2 handles an amnesiac party. Excellent!

Sounds pretty freaking cool so far! The X-Files is my fiancé’s favorite show so she was immediately hooked.

Ooh, nice.

Sweet! Its nice to be going back to the river kingdoms. Also, I'm glad to see James Sutter is writing this one.

I love the flavour of this, it's giving Strange Aeons vibes, and depending on how "ancient forest with paranoid townsfolk" turns out, could even end up sorta like True Detective.

Plus, 3-book APs are just infinitely more approachable for me than 6-book ones.

Definitely the most excited I've been for an AP in a while.

Mmmm... Castrovel...!

VERY excited for this, especially because I know a friend won't be able to resist running it...

Appreciate that Paizo seems to be willing to make 3-parters more often.

Appreciate that Paizo seems to be willing to make 3-parters more often.

They seem to have settled into a schedule of two in the front half of the year, followed by a 6-volume one in the back half. I’m very content with it.

Leon Aquilla wrote:

Appreciate that Paizo seems to be willing to make 3-parters more often.

They seem to have settled into a schedule of two in the front half of the year, followed by a 6-volume one in the back half. I’m very content with it.

Yeah I think it's the best policy for trying to entice the most kinds of GM's possible. I'm partial to three partners myself bc they're that much more likely to actually reach the finish line. Real life is an ever constant threat that can prematurely end a campaign.

Sutter writing a spooky investiagtion? I’m in.

Curious if elves will be allowed in the AP. Or if this will address the Obnubilate plague?

Really excited about Sutter, I've always loved his writing and adventures.

I would appreciate it if my coworkers would stop releasing adventures I desperately want to play, thanks.

A “three-parter” is just an old-fashioned TSR trilogy. Paizo took 15 years to reinvent the trilogy. So that’s a fine development because though six-parters are way epicer, not everything in D&D should be about epicness. Now how about a 12-parter again, like in the days of the magazines? A 12-parter to wrap up Second Edition would be especially appreciated in half a decade’s time or so, Mr. Creative Dinorector.

I would appreciate it if my coworkers would stop releasing adventures I desperately want to play, thanks.

Suffer, as I have suffered!

A “three-parter” is just an old-fashioned TSR trilogy. Paizo took 15 years to reinvent the trilogy. So that’s a fine development because though six-parters are way epicer, not everything in D&D should be about epicness. Now how about a 12-parter again, like in the days of the magazines? A 12-parter to wrap up Second Edition would be especially appreciated in half a decade’s time or so, Mr. Creative Dinorector.

Pretty sure Paizo isn't interested in committing a whole year of their most important revenue stream to a product that will ultimately entertain just some part of their customer base.

CULTxicycalm wrote:

A “three-parter” is just an old-fashioned TSR trilogy. Paizo took 15 years to reinvent the trilogy. So that’s a fine development because though six-parters are way epicer, not everything in D&D should be about epicness. Now how about a 12-parter again, like in the days of the magazines? A 12-parter to wrap up Second Edition would be especially appreciated in half a decade’s time or so, Mr. Creative Dinorector.

Pretty sure Paizo isn't interested in committing a whole year of their most important revenue stream to a product that will ultimately entertain just some part of their customer base.

Sounds like it would make for horrible pacing. Yeah just drag out every level to take twice as long to go through, that doesn't sound like obviously terrible idea.

Maybe a 12-parter could work in the sense of two 6-parters that tell an interwoven story? I guess that sort of happened with Hell's Rebels and then Hell's Vengeance.

Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance storylines don't interact with each other at all.

I mean, they don’t touch one another directly, but both are shaking up Cheliax at the same time and inform the context of the other.

Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance storylines don't interact with each other at all.

The first two three parters did so well they are both getting a combined hardcover rerelease. They are obviously doing well.

I would love a 5th-15th three part AP.

I think a twelve part AP could work after the introduction of Mythic Rules in 2e. But I will say, maybe make it a loose continuation at best. Like two (or three, with two three-part APs) distinct APs (one being Mythic) that happen to have a lot of overlap, but don't need to be played together to work on their own.

More on topic, pretty interested in this. A return to the River Kingdoms, especially on the heels of Kingmaker 2e, seems like a no brainer. I'd be interested to see if we stay in that nation, or the wider Broken Lands region, over the next year.

A 6-parter isn’t a real campaign anyway. It’s just one story. A 12-parter would be closer to the real D&D conception of a “campaign” that basically includes a character’s entire life. It’s silly to think a writer couldn’t think of cool things to do for 12 adventures. Whether that would be financially smart is another question. If done WELL ENOUGH I think it COULD be, but of course doing a good 12-parter is harder than a 6-parter which is harder than a standalone adventure which is harder than a one-shot which is harder than a single encounter. But if anyone could do it, it’d be Paizo.

A 6-parter isn’t a real campaign anyway. It’s just one story.

So is a 12-parter.

Yeah but it’s a longer one, thus closer to encompassing a character’s life. I already said that. It won’t match D&D’s concept of a campaign, but it will get closer than the current ditching of a character after 6 adventures.

Longer is not always better. *looks at Terry Goodkind*

A 6-parter isn’t a real campaign anyway. It’s just one story. A 12-parter would be closer to the real D&D conception of a “campaign” that basically includes a character’s entire life. It’s silly to think a writer couldn’t think of cool things to do for 12 adventures. Whether that would be financially smart is another question. If done WELL ENOUGH I think it COULD be, but of course doing a good 12-parter is harder than a 6-parter which is harder than a standalone adventure which is harder than a one-shot which is harder than a single encounter. But if anyone could do it, it’d be Paizo.

Well, yes. They’ve done it 3 times before: Shackled city, age of worms, and savage tide.

I don’t think the total word count for 12 adventures was any higher than the current 6 parters.

Yep so I would basically love to see a 1,200-page campaign from Paizo.

Yep so I would basically love to see a 1,200-page campaign from Paizo.

A 6 parter takes you from 1-20th level what would you do with the other 6 volumes?

It took my group three years to complete Rise of the Runelords. I dread to think how long it would take to complete something double that size.

The old 12 part 3e AP campaigns from Paizo ran from 1st to 20th, so it is possible, but not necessarily wise.

One of the perks of the current system is that if you hate the current AP, there’s never more than six months between you and one with a different premise. I completely checked out on the product line for the Extinction Curse/Agents of Edgewatch year, and it was miserable waiting a whole year for s campaign product I actually cared about to come along; any 12-volume behemoth would almost certainly cause this to happen to more people.

This topic probably merits a separate thread from this product page.

It took my group three years to complete Rise of the Runelords. I dread to think how long it would take to complete something double that size.

The old 12 part 3e AP campaigns from Paizo ran from 1st to 20th, so it is possible, but not necessarily wise.

PF2 6-part APs run from 1 to 20, too. Changes to XP system in PF2 mean less encounters per level = less filler fights = faster leveling.

Yeah but it’s a longer one, thus closer to encompassing a character’s life. I already said that. It won’t match D&D’s concept of a campaign, but it will get closer than the current ditching of a character after 6 adventures.

What's that "D&D concept of a campaign" that you're referring to? Against the Giants ---> Queen of Demonweb Pits is seven adventures and goes from level 9 to 14. It's the most iconic D&D campaign, and it doesn't either start at level 1, go on for 12 episodes or end at level 20. It assumes that both before it and after it, you're doing other things.

Temple of Elemental Evil - Scourge of the Slave Lords - Queen of the Spiders goes from level 1 to level 14.

What you're describing is "Paizo's concept of a 3.5 D&D campaign published in monthly magazines" but these contained the amount of content that Paizo now puts in 6-part APs, going from level 1 to 20.

While I can complete a six part AP in about seven-eight months, by the end of it my group is definitely saying "Can we please play something NOT d20 OGL based?" so tag me in the "Thanks but no thanks" crowd re: a 12-parter.

PF2 can get a party all the way from level 1 to level 20 in 6 volumes, so I am not sure what would be gained with a 12-parter there.

But given where 6-part Starfinder APs cut off, we could really use some 9-parters there.

All 2E six book paths go 1-20, so uh, what more do you want out of a character? Do you want to play six full books at level 20? I think that'd get pretty boring myself. Mythic rules aren't here yet so that's all you can do beyond a normal six book AP without severely homebrewing rules.

Not to derail the 6 vs 12 part AP campaign argument, but on the original topic, this sounds like a pretty promising AP. I'm definitely interested in checking out (and the tie in also makes me much more likely to pick up Dark Archive too).

Agreed! This adventure seems so ripe for a psychic and a thaumaturge in the party.

Yeah, I have an Elf Psychic in mind (technically from Kyonin, almost certainly actually from Sovyrian) who is /perfect/ for at least this first adventure. Deeply curious to see where the other books lead - more Castrovelian adventure, through the elf-gates to another world, maybe onto the planes?

I’ll consider this book a real victory if we get a cute piece of Lashunta art. I want them as an Ancestry terribly.

Yeah, I have an Elf Psychic in mind (technically from Kyonin, almost certainly actually from Sovyrian) who is /perfect/ for at least this first adventure. Deeply curious to see where the other books lead - more Castrovelian adventure, through the elf-gates to another world, maybe onto the planes?

I’ll consider this book a real victory if we get a cute piece of Lashunta art. I want them as an Ancestry terribly.

I'd not be surprised if we were to get some Lashunta rules. Monster stats would be almost a given. They have introduced Ancestries in APs before, so who knows what else we might get.

keftiu wrote:

Yeah, I have an Elf Psychic in mind (technically from Kyonin, almost certainly actually from Sovyrian) who is /perfect/ for at least this first adventure. Deeply curious to see where the other books lead - more Castrovelian adventure, through the elf-gates to another world, maybe onto the planes?

I’ll consider this book a real victory if we get a cute piece of Lashunta art. I want them as an Ancestry terribly.

I'd not be surprised if we were to get some Lashunta rules. Monster stats would be almost a given. They have introduced Ancestries in APs before, so who knows what else we might get.

Pretty sure they've stated that they specifically won't be including whole Ancestries after what happened with the Shoony. As a result of them being put in an AP, they've received no further support since, basically because expanding their options wasn't accounted for within the schedule. They want to avoid that in the future. The most we are likely to get are thematically appropriate Ancestry Feats or Heritages.

So Lashunta, imo, are most likely to appear in a book covering the other planets in Golarion's star system. Likely alongside other alien options, such as the Kasatha.