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Oni, by Pathfinder standards, are considered Fiends. Under the new rules for "outsiders", Kami would have to fall under the category of one of the three class of Outer Immortals: being Celestial, Monitor, or Fiend. Given that most of Kami, void the Zuishin (which is LG), are some kind of neutral, one could argue that they are Monitors. But that only really works where Law and Chaos are concerned I think, since Good or Evil implies Celestial or Fiend respectively. A way around this could be to make Yokai their own form of Immortal, ones which aren't necessarily bound by the usual rules applied to the other Outer Immortals.
Yokai could be the neutral bound Immortals, able to go any direction in terms of neutral alignment, and then Kami could be the Celestial counterpart to Oni. Or Kami become the neutral ones and we introduce a third Immortal to Tian-Xia as Celestial beings. My recommendation would be the Tennin from Buddhism, which are basically angels.
Yokai is meant to also evoke certain monsters from Japanese myth, which, so far, has not been done in Pathfinder. Tengu, Kitsune, and Tanuki aren't considered Yokai by Pathfinder standards, only Oni, Kami, and ghosts/spirits.
If it were me, I'd use Yurei as the general term for undead ghosts or spirits, make Yokai a race of Immortals, divide the race into Tennin, Kami, and Oni, and probably turn Zuishin into a type of Tennin. But, that is just my opinion on the matter. In the end, Paizo will have to do something, because Kami, as they are, simply do not work with the way the new Immortals work now. As it stands, all Immortals seemingly must fall into one of four categories: Celestial, Elemental, Fiend, or Monitor, with appropriate subtypes where needed, such as Angel, Genie, Demon, or Aeon.
Since Kami have strong links with the natural world, Elemental sounds good to me.
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On a separate, more relevant note: does anyone else have an unbridled desire to start a campaign of nothing but Vigilante characters? My inner child wants to push a full Vigilante Ranger party and refer to them as Power Rangers. :D
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I'm so excited for this one, brings back a bunch of my favorite races AND evil champions.
I'm glad to see aasimars and tieflings become available to all races instead of just being various shades of humans.
Just take my money already, Paizo!!!
Hm. IIRC, Antipaladin was CE. Either way I hope they come up with a better name than "antipaladin".
The CE Champion NPC in the Gamemastery Guide is named "Antipaladin", so I have a feeling that one will stay. LE feels like it could be a "Tyrant", but that might be too generic of a name. I don't have a great idea for a NE name, it certainly depends on what theme Paizo goes for.
The Antipaladin's reaction - assuming it will be similar to the PC version - is to increase the damage taken on an attack against you, but deal that same amount back at the attacker and gain bonus Strike damage against that Target on your next turn.
The Lay on Hands equivalent is a damaging attack that reduces AC, or heals an undead creature and boosts their damage.
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Oh summer come so that we can get this! :)
it's snowing here. :-(
Did anybody else notice that the following spells are mentioned in Gods and Omens?
Aqueous orb
Blistering invective
Mad monkeys
Threefold aspect
Vomit swarm
They're listed as being from the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide. :D
The GMG has a reference to the Rod of Cancellation as being in the APG.
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Fun fact: Had the random desire to do some math. If one includes the 6 Ancestries presented in the Core Rulebook, the 3 added in the Character Guide, the eminent new Ancestry in the next act of Extinction Curse (confirmed in the "Next Month" section of Legacy of the Lost God act; which I presume will be Troglodytes), and the 5 Ancestries coming with the APG, and taking the 5 new Heritages being added as well; there will be a total of 75 distinct people that are playable in Second Edition since launch. This is of course not including the variable Heritages each Ancestry has, which denotes things like culture, ethnicity, nationality, and the like; nor is this including the likely "Sub-Heritages" we may see from options like Aasimar and Tiefling (such as Oni-spawn Tiefling and Agathion-blooded Aasimar). This number is assuming that options like Leshy can be Duskwalkers and Changelings. Given the nature of their birth, I'm not sure that is technically possible. But I digress.
This. This is why I love Pathfinder. The sheer multitude of options and routes one can take to create something theoretically original in this game is outright phenomenal. I saw a video recently where a guy took nearly every conceivable option within the Core Rulebook alone and came up with a ludicrous number. Not all of these choices are huge, but they are enough to create a unique story amongst the characters created. It's amazing.
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Fun fact: Had the random desire to do some math. If one includes the 6 Ancestries presented in the Core Rulebook, the 3 added in the Character Guide, the eminent new Ancestry in the next act of Extinction Curse (confirmed in the "Next Month" section of Legacy of the Lost God act; which I presume will be Troglodytes), and the 5 Ancestries coming with the APG, and taking the 5 new Heritages being added as well; there will be a total of 75 distinct people that are playable in Second Edition since launch. This is of course not including the variable Heritages each Ancestry has, which denotes things like culture, ethnicity, nationality, and the like; nor is this including the likely "Sub-Heritages" we may see from options like Aasimar and Tiefling (such as Oni-spawn Tiefling and Agathion-blooded Aasimar). This number is assuming that options like Leshy can be Duskwalkers and Changelings. Given the nature of their birth, I'm not sure that is technically possible. But I digress.
This. This is why I love Pathfinder. The sheer multitude of options and routes one can take to create something theoretically original in this game is outright phenomenal. I saw a video recently where a guy took nearly every conceivable option within the Core Rulebook alone and came up with a ludicrous number. Not all of these choices are huge, but they are enough to create a unique story amongst the characters created. It's amazing.
(The new ancestry was Shoony btw :D Pug ancestry!)
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(The new ancestry was Shoony btw :D Pug ancestry!)
Even better! Forgot they were sneakily hinted at. Wing-ed Aasimar Pupper!!
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On side note, I hope that heritages don't require more achievement points in PFS. Because I realized I might want to use certain Leshy character Background from PFS scenario for Leshy Tiefling character xD
That's assuming Leshy can take any of these variable Heritages. Given the nature of their birth, being created by Druids by infusing nature spirits into a material body; I wonder if their can take any Planar Scion options. Theroetically, I suppose one could argue the possibility of infusing Fiendish, Celestial, and Monitor spirits or essence from an Immortal or their corresponding Planes. But, I think that would likely force an alignment, as the Planes and their inhabitants tend to be alignment locked. And Changeling and Dhampir just seems very out of the question as well, being physical beings rather than spiritual, relying on genetic birth.
But maybe Paizo has thought up an elegant solution to this.
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The background doesn't necessarily make them Tiefling Leshy tho8gh. But again, I'm certain Paizo figured out a reasonable ingame lore reason as to why things like Tiefling Leshy and similar creatures exist. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
The more important issue here is the blatant lack on Swinefolk in fantasy settings nowadays! D:<
I desire the (P)Orcs of old! Give me the pig people Paizo!!
The background doesn't necessarily make them Tiefling Leshy tho8gh. But again, I'm certain Paizo figured out a reasonable ingame lore reason as to why things like Tiefling Leshy and similar creatures exist. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
The more important issue here is the blatant lack on Swinefolk in fantasy settings nowadays! D:<
I desire the (P)Orcs of old! Give me the pig people Paizo!!
I mean, it would probably be the other way around- it doesn't necessarily *make* them Tiefling Leshy, but it certainly seems like a good explanation for Tiefling Leshy (and by extension, other kinds of Leshy, as being nature spirits associated with areas under heavy planar influence) if you chose to take a universal heritage on a Leshy.
Any idea when the final cover will be shown?
I'm on board with hoping there is coherent control against Planetouched combos with Leshies and Duskwalker et al.
Really, even more so re: Dhampir and Changeling and such mortal Heritages which don't make sense in created spiritual being.
(if Planetouched origin is vague and mutable enough I suppose one could speculate a viable route for those Heritage combos)
I'm freshly curious on Metallic Kobolds and Aasimar and Apsu and such; interesting potential for specific expressions like that.
(although I also liked the idea of Metallic Kobolds being Apsu thing without necessarily involving Aasimar per se)
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As they announced final APG is now sent to printers, I expect the final cover to be released sooner rather than later.
Maybe we'll even start getting some more specific previews of the final APG content.... <hint hint hint ATTN: Paizo>
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I'm on board with hoping there is coherent control against Planetouched combos with Leshies and Duskwalker et al.
Really, even more so re: Dhampir and Changeling and such mortal Heritages which don't make sense in created spiritual being.
(if Planetouched origin is vague and mutable enough I suppose one could speculate a viable route for those Heritage combos)I'm freshly curious on Metallic Kobolds and Aasimar and Apsu and such; interesting potential for specific expressions like that.
(although I also liked the idea of Metallic Kobolds being Apsu thing without necessarily involving Aasimar per se)----------------------------------------------------------
As they announced final APG is now sent to printers, I expect the final cover to be released sooner rather than later.
Maybe we'll even start getting some more specific previews of the final APG content.... <hint hint hint ATTN: Paizo>
Agreed, I'm super ready for more info, I hope this is set to be a long, drip fed, hype cycle. I am so ready to slow burn my anticipation of this book, sharing each blog post with my group for us to speculate on and salivate over.
(full disclosure: i know this seems like a bit much, but i just enjoy hyping for products, always have- especially for TTRPG books, its actually part of my experience of the game as a whole and gives me a strong sense of community when we discuss each thing on here like we did with the Witch Playtest and such.... or in other words, I love all you nerds <3)
I mean...there are some very inhuman Demonic and Monitor entities that I could easily see being able to create "Planetouched"
Regardless of that fact, Aasimar and Tieflings aren't always born of a bloodline coupling between Mortals and Outsiders.
Proximity to prodigious Fell or Holy energy can lead to that sort of birth.
Look what happened to Nualia and her child...that poor, poor girl.
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I know there's a lot going on right now, especially for the writers. So I hope this doesn't ruffle any feathers, and I don't mean it to. But while there's a chance that the product might be delayed the pandemic, I was actually wondering if there's a chance the pdf is released early? A lot of digital content has been, for those bored at home. I know I'm chomping at the bit for fun stuff to do, and character building might be my favourite thing about pathfinder.
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While I personally wouldn’t mind getting this book early, throwing an extra 45$ charge to subscribers months in advance while a lot of people are currently in unemployment is probably not the best idea.
(Or did you mean to post in the Bestiary 2 thread, since that comes out in less than two months).
Not to mention that releasing the pdfs of new products for sale long before the actual street date may really hurt brick 'n mortar stores during this time where many are in financial stress.
Or at least, that is my understanding regarding one of the reasons why Paizo doesn't release pdfs of new products for sale before the street date of the physical product.
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I'd definitely prefer to get the subscription Bestiary 2 PDF and (eventually) the APG PDF "on time" even if the physical copies don't come for a while (which wouldn't currently be possible, since it doesn't come until the physical item is on it's way), but I don't think earlier than usual is a great idea-
I wouldn't mind but I'm sure some people would feel strongly about sub item dates changing to be closer.
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The literal only I had hoped for for 2nd edition was being able to recreate my favorite archetype, the kobold swashbuckler and I couldn't be more pleased! Being able to also potentially add on cavalier is just icing!
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It would be really nice to see the final cover art for the APG. I'm wondering if we are seeing all the four new iconics in it, and if they are going to be fighting a linnorm as well as in the 1E cover.
I too am looking forward to the new cover.
Any guesses on other core class options? Just for fun I looked to pf1 to see if I can guess what they might be.
Alchemist - Not sure if it's been confirmed, but I'm guessing a poisoner option. Maybe a sort of machinist option, something like the tinkerer archetype in original pathfinder. I do suspect probably a single class focus and then a bunch of more universal feats though.
Barbarian - Core class options loosely cover a ton of original archetypes. Mostly animal, there are a ton of animal barb archetypes in pf1! I could possibly see an elemental focused barbarian (More along the lines of earth/fire/water/air dealing bludgeoning or fire damage, rather than the energy types dragon deals, and very different thematically/powers wise). A heavy armor focused barb could also be an option, though I'm not sure what kind of feats you'd grant it.
Bard - This is the class I find hardest to guess. There could be more skill focused options like acrobat or wit based stuff, or it could be more occult magic like charming effects. Little inexperienced here. There could also be a skald type option, this could be here or in the barb area.
Cleric - We have cloistered and warpriest now, both focused more on defense and buffing. I could see a more magically offensive option, or maybe a necromancy focused one?
Druid - I could see a more elemental focused one, storm and leaf are pretty focused on their respective themes. Maybe a fey option, with more illusion and trickery. Possibly a shifter style option, but I do think that'll be its own class.
Fighter - Fighters don't really have a major option to choose from, so I expect just a buttload more feats, which I like. Tons of possibilities for martial feats.
Wizard - Another I'm not very familiar with but I could see lots of options. Maybe a magic item focused option like scrollmaster or an option of specific new types of magic like chronomancy.
I won't bother with the others as they're already in the product description. What do others think?
Investigator was chosen over other classes because of the Agents of Absalom AP (or whatever it's called).
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Investigator was chosen over other classes because of the Agents of Absalom AP (or whatever it's called).Agents of Edgewatch
I think the timing is nice, but I got the impression that they wanted to start including some less straight-up combat-oriented classes, and investigator was the obvious launch point for that. They also said it was one of the most requested classes.
Obviously depends on how it's grown since the playtest, but it's probably the most intriguing class to me at the moment.
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That set weren't exactly the top 5 most played raw (books that came out years later would have less raw play just by amount of time available), but they all did well for when they came out, and neck-and-neck alchemist and oracle were each more popular than even some of the core classes.
Is that how future classes are going to be picked, by most wanted/most popular?
As far as returning classes go, I hope popularity is strongly considered (as is filling conceptual voids in the game currently).
Though I'm still very hopeful we get more classes and ancestries and everything that have not directly appeared in the game before. I'm new with PF2, never played first edition, and don't really find tons of excitement in just getting all that rolled back out in modified form. Hoping over the next year or two we start to see Paizo truly taking advantage of owning their own world and their own game setup.
See where this evolves.
That's not to say I'm not wildly excited for this APG, because I am!
Is that how future classes are going to be picked, by most wanted/most popular?I fully expect that Paizo will weigh numerous factors, including popularity, what design space has not been covered, what classes can do the design better, and many other things.
Yeah but I wonder which is the most important. Assuming the next classes aren't locked down, it would be cool if there could be a poll for one or two of the next classes chosen. That being said I fully realize that the good folks at paizo are much better at determining what's best for their game, mob rule tends to be pretty dumb sometimes.
Not the worst idea, Gaulin, but I think at this point they’ve surely identified and set priorities for the “popular” classes, so the poll would mostly determine the next tier of conversions to prioritize.
If they do another pure class book akin to the Advanced Class guide, I could see something like that poll taking place. I doubt they’d get a lot of value doing that, but I’m definitely prepared to be wrong about it.
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Yeah but I wonder which is the most important.None of them. The most important criteria is "what will sell best without compromising our standards?"
Obviously, but I would think some of those factors factor in to that decision. I just wonder how important each factor is. I realize it's not a single thing.
I suppose I was hoping for a poll because I'm curious about what's coming up, and a poll might give people an idea, that's all. I'm dieing for kineticist to come out and wonder how long it'll be before it's created (if it will be at all), and I'm sure there are many that are waiting on baited breath for their favorite to come out.
I'm sure if you pop over to Paizo's Twitter page, or Facebook page, or their twitch channel or their Instagram page I'm sure you can find a poll to your liking.
If it's one thing that social media likes, it's more polls.
