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That looks like a lot more than 5 ancestries: Aasimar, tiefling, duskwalker, kobold, orc, catfolk, ratfolk, tengu, dhampir, changeling? That's at least 10!
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The planar scions (aasimar, duskwalker, tiefling), changelings, and dhampirs are heritages you can take with any ancestry, giving you far more options overall for your character than if they were a separate ancestry. So 5 of each is 10!
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KOBOLD ALARMS ACTIVATED!
Ahem. I mean, Huzzah!
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I’m really excited for this! My players and I have definitely been looking forward to PF2 getting fleshed out with more options!
Very excited about the news, and certainly looking forward to the book !!!!
Swashbuckler has always been my kind of hero!
The planar scions (aasimar, duskwalker, tiefling), changelings, and dhampirs are heritages you can take with any ancestry, giving you far more options overall for your character than if they were a separate ancestry. So 5 of each is 10!
*Happy Dance*
Preordered!
ALL ABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOARD!!
I was gonna chime in with something specific, but it is all just too much. There is just so much there. I hope we get the Bigby's Hand spells and more shadow spells. I'm glad we have they confirmed my favorite, Create Demiplane, though. I am excited.
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Vigilante and Cavalier confirmed as Archetypes? Excellent. Ditto Evil Champions, Zen Archer Monks, and Spellcasting Rangers being things again.
The Mastermind Rogue as a major thing worth talking about is effectively new, and that also sparks my interest quite a bit. An Int-related Racket should be very interesting to examine and possibly compare to Investigator...
Contributor
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Vigilante and Cavalier confirmed as Archetypes? Excellent. Ditto Evil Champions, Zen Archer Monks, and Spellcasting Rangers being things again.
The Mastermind Rogue as a major thing worth talking about is effectively new, and that also sparks my interest quite a bit. An Int-related Racket should be very interesting to examine and possibly compare to Investigator...
What's all this racket?
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Vigilante and Cavalier confirmed as Archetypes? Excellent. Ditto Evil Champions, Zen Archer Monks, and Spellcasting Rangers being things again.
The Mastermind Rogue as a major thing worth talking about is effectively new, and that also sparks my interest quite a bit. An Int-related Racket should be very interesting to examine and possibly compare to Investigator...
I'm curious if the Mastermind Rogue will be the foil to the Investigator, rather than overlapping with it. They had some class archetypes like that in Ultimate Intrigue, right?
Meanwhile, I'm rolling a series of Will saves at work to not scream in excitement with each sentence I read of the description.
Shadowdancers! YEEEES, and its an archetype- in 5e I was stuck with a Monks-Only version!
Zen Archer Monks... I wonder if that's feat support, or a class archetype for them? Either way, it makes me happy to know that we're getting weapon-monk support!
If Mastermind Rogues have an int inclination (and it would be weird if they didn't) they're going to be drowning in skills... but that just means they can take a bunch of specific lores instead!
The classes of course are cool and appreciated, but I'm trepiditious about what direction some of them will be taken in after seeing the feedback on the forums. I'm sure it'll turn out alright though.
My players will appreciate the inclusion of non-good champions, and I'm vaguely excited for Shadow Sorcerers as well.
Last but not least, is the presence of the ancestries and heritages, I'm really stoked to see the Orc stats that presumably follow the physical/mental boost pattern, and to be able to apply Tiefling/Aasimar/etc to other ancestries- this is really going to enhance the character building experience, and flesh the f$~* out of our homebrew world.
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Super curious to see what sneaks in here for Barbarians and Fighters more than anything else. I'd also love to see a Gloomblade/Soulknife/"you make your weapon" archetype, and having Vigilante back is such a treat.
The ancestries alone make me wanna grab this.
Definitely looks like a must purchase
Also makes me wonder whether I should delay any 2E game until this comes out .
If my 1E AP gets back on track (2 books to go) then the prospect of an “enforced” 2E delay is offset by allowing this book to be included !
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Can we get alternate casting rules for all casters, please? Vancian magic blows.
If Mastermind Rogues have an int inclination (and it would be weird if they didn't) they're going to be drowning in skills... but that just means they can take a bunch of specific lores instead!
IMHO if Mastermind Racket allows INT Key Stat, it's plausible it could allow INT bonus to increase existing proficiencies, still within normal level limits. Starting INT could only enable Expert, with later INT boosts potentially adding ~2 more max proficiency skills beyond norm for Rogue, but # of Skill Feats is the same, and heavy INT focus detracts from core stats including non-INT skill modifiers. Right now Archetypes allow bonus skill increases, but this would bring it "in house" (and not stack, since level limits still apply).
I do like the anti-Investigator vibe, which I can also see being option for Investigators themselves. This reassures me on my worry Investigator may step on Rogue's toes too much, if they have specific anti-Investigator Racket, I feel like they are "on the job" for that concern.
This also reminds me of an idea I had for general skill Feat allowing 1-action usage of Knowledge skills to gain advantage or debuff VS target like CHA skills, based on "understanding" their instinctual movements etc. Since it wouldn't stack with everything, doesn't seem problematic,and at opportunity cost of other skill feats, mostly an additional 3rd 1-action option for INT-based characters not thrilled with Recall Knowledge.
I'm really stoked to see the Orc stats that presumably follow the physical/mental boost pattern
I'm really don't understand excitement at predicting the most formulaic implementation. I think diverging from the pattern actually holds most promise here, and isn't necessarily that disruptive, if one considers +2 STR/CON -2 DEX with DEX undermining CON somewhat. I once suggested a further divergence in having TWO flaw stats (DEX and INT) but with modification to Class/Key Stat stage adding additional boost to STR/CON, but using normal "only one boost per stat per stage" rule, so if Class boosts STR (or CON) the additional Orc bonus could only apply to other stat, for same max (with 18 vs 16 CON only amounting to +1 half of boost tiers, anyways).
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I would like to see if there's confirmation from Mark or someone else whether it's just Evil Champions in this book, or if there'll also be Neutral ones as well. Even hearing a no would help me out grasping this.
Overall, super SUPER happy and cannot wait for the release next year!
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Ok, this was already on my buy list. Now its on I want it tomorrow list.
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I'm curious if the Mastermind Rogue will be the foil to the Investigator, rather than overlapping with it. They had some class archetypes like that in Ultimate Intrigue, right?Vigilante and Cavalier confirmed as Archetypes? Excellent. Ditto Evil Champions, Zen Archer Monks, and Spellcasting Rangers being things again.
The Mastermind Rogue as a major thing worth talking about is effectively new, and that also sparks my interest quite a bit. An Int-related Racket should be very interesting to examine and possibly compare to Investigator...
Moriarty and Sherlock coming in the same book?
Dope.
If Mastermind Rogues have an int inclination (and it would be weird if they didn't) they're going to be drowning in skills... but that just means they can take a bunch of specific lores instead!IMHO if they do this it seems likely they would allow applying INT bonus skill to increase existing proficiencies, not exceeding normal level limits for increases that isn't overly powerful. It mostly amounts to more Expert skills in endgame, with later INT increases adding 1 more max proficiency skill beyond norm for Rogue. I do like the anti-Investigator vibe, which I can also see being option for Investigators themselves.
This also reminds me of an idea I had for general skill Feat allowing 1-action usage of Knowledge skills to gain advantage or debuff VS target like CHA skills, based on "understanding" their instinctual movements etc. Since it wouldn't stack with everything, doesn't seem problematic and at opportunity cost of other skill feats.
I'm really stoked to see the Orc stats that presumably follow the physical/mental boost patternI'm really don't understand excitement at predicting the most formulaic implementation. I think diverging from the pattern actually holds most promise here, and isn't necessarily that disruptive, if one considers +2 STR/CON -2 DEX with DEX undermining CON somewhat. I once suggested a further divergence in having TWO flaw stats (DEX and INT) but with modification to Class/Key Stat stage adding additional boost to STR/CON, but using normal "only one boost per stat per stage" rule, so if Class boosts STR (or CON) the additional Orc bonus could only apply to other stat, for same max (with 18 vs 16 CON only amounting to +1 half of boost tiers, anyways).
Basically, the promise of one physical stat, one mental stat, especially with the third boost- has to do with the nature of the asymmetrical balance of different ancestries for the existing classes.
It widens the thematic field- since no one has Strength/Constitution by default it means that ancestries aren't as severely overspecialized to be good at one thing (in the case of the orc, hitting things- since it would give them a de facto casting stat) and that other ancestries (which would have had a physical/mental balance anyway)are still competitive for those builds as well.
Also that suggestion is... complicated, at best.
Really, I'm looking forward to it because when orcs get a boost to Wisdom (spoilers, but you can reverse engineer it from their monster stat block) it means that they'll make wonderful clerics and druids, in addition to wonderful fighters and barbarians.
I would like to see if there's confirmation from Mark or someone else whether it's just Evil Champions in this book, or if there'll also be Neutral ones as well.
I'm pretty sure if it included Neutral Champions, they would have said so. Just Tenets of Evil will require quite a bit Feat and Focus spell support, nearly equal to full Class (considering they probably want to match APG expansion of Good Champion options), so I'm not surprised they wouldn't do Neutral at the same time.
Although with Duskwalker Ancestry being in the book, a Pharasmin/Soul Cycle Neutral Champion Tenet/Cause would have made alot of sense. "Just Neutral" is unsatisfying as core element, so I might guess there will be very few common Neutral Tenet Feats and abilities, with more focus on specific Cause (e.g. Soul Cycle, Druidism) compared to Champions of Good.
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Meanwhile, I'm rolling a series of Will saves at work to not scream in excitement with each sentence I read of the description.
Aww, thanks!
This is only my second time writing one of these descriptions and I had some help from Jason too, so it's great to hear that it's having the desired effect!
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zen archer monks! I like that a lot! and i hope they can bane enemies from another plane with his arrows!
Basically, the promise of one physical stat, one mental stat, especially with the third boost ... means that ancestries aren't as severely overspecialized to be good at one thing ... and that other ancestries (which would have had a physical/mental balance anyway)are still competitive for those builds as well.
Really, I'm looking forward to it because when orcs get a boost to Wisdom (spoilers, but you can reverse engineer it from their monster stat block) it means that they'll make wonderful clerics and druids, in addition to wonderful fighters and barbarians.
As far as I can tell, the stats I proposed would make perfectly wonderful Orc Druids. CON is useful to everybody, and STR is also universally relevant, Druid Medium Armor also requires some to avoid penalties. On reflection though, I do think my proposal is too good over-all, just not especially for fighters/barbarians/etc whose array would be similar anyways. Because while I counterposed DEX agaisnt CON, STR (enabling armor) can supplant DEX re: AC and INT is easiest penalty to ignore if not a Key Stat, since -1 skill is just minor hit to versatility (and 1/3 skills are INT based, STR only having 1). Really only +INT +DEX Wizards would be bad off, wanting to reverse both bonus and flaw, although still better off with CON bonus than trying to negate "conventional" pattern with -INT +STR that didn't include +DEX.
Even using +STR +WIS and -INT -DEX as base would tend to allow too many "universally relevant" bonuses with penalties that are weak or solvable via other means (heavy armor). The "extra flaw, extra bonus" model might be workable for other stat combos that avoid universal synergy, such as INT and CHA bonus (weak general relevance) and STR/DEX/CON flaws (strong relevance). But even if that might be balanced, it could still be "too complicated" as basic element of character building, as you say.
Sorry for derail.
Did anybody say... Ratfolk!!!!?!?!?
The Sash-Ringing, the Trash-Singing, Mash-Flinging, The Flash-Springing...
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Even more confused now ._.;
It's from Spongebob, an early episode about an urban legend called "The Hash-Slinging Slasher."
Folks, when someone doesn't get a reference, doubling down on being obtuse isn't fun for anyone. C'mon.
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Familiar master archetype was exactly the sort of thing I was hoping we'd get- take a thing, and focus on it. I'm curious if the dedication will grant a familiar, opening it up to many classes, or improve an existing one, focusing on witches and gnomes/human wizard/sorcerers.
Cool to see vigilante included as an archetype- PF1's version was very good at blending in another class's flavor, so it makes sense.
I'm looking forward to my rogue being able to create demiplanes.
Very curious what the evil champions play out like!
More ancestries (or planar heritages) are the biggest request for my group, so getting five of each is great.
Bloodlines, yesss…
And, of course, the new classes!
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Even more confused now ._.;It's from Spongebob, an early episode about an urban legend called "The Hash-Slinging Slasher."
Folks, when someone doesn't get a reference, doubling down on being obtuse isn't fun for anyone. C'mon.
If only there were an interconnected series of computers with vast distributed databases that was easily searchable via a copy and paste to find related discussions and images about a confusing text string.
Alas.
You jerk, I googled them individually and all it resulted in was some youtuber's called 88 Fingers Edward musics :p And I didn't do enough sleuthing to realize their music is apparently inspired by cartoon shows
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20 of the 40 PF1 classes covered in the first year. Possibly even more through archetypes not mentioned........ XD
Gotta speedrun through the PF1E content to get to the truly original stuff for the next 10 years!