Pathfinder Adventure Path #64: Beyond the Doomsday Door (Shattered Star 4 of 6)

Announced! Image is a mockup, and will change prior to publication.

Doomsday Door? Hmmm... Alliterative Artifacts of Annihilation are my Favorite!

Also? the essay on Qlippoth! Will it include how to pronounce that word?

Also? the essay on Qlippoth! Will it include how to pronounce that word?

The essay is *about* how to pronounce that word!

Ok, not really.

Doomsday Door? Hmmm... Alliterative Artifacts of Annihilation are my Favorite!

Also? the essay on Qlippoth! Will it include how to pronounce that word?

Well... It's a real-world word. I pronoucne it:

CLIP-oth

Not sure how 100% accurate that might be, though, since I don't speak Hebrew...

Wikipedia has more info about that.

No offense to Tito, but you should totally have contracted out Tom Phillips to do this one. Would have been amazing.

Maybe bring back the whole set-piece idea from the early APs and have him do one of those in this issue?

Stratagemini wrote:

Doomsday Door? Hmmm... Alliterative Artifacts of Annihilation are my Favorite!

Also? the essay on Qlippoth! Will it include how to pronounce that word?

Well... It's a real-world word. I pronoucne it:

CLIP-oth

Not sure how 100% accurate that might be, though, since I don't speak Hebrew...

Wikipedia has more info about that.

My Hebrew-speaking Jewish friend (who will be coming to Paizocon) informs me that it is 'Kli-pot', stress on the second syllable, and that it is a grammatically-feminine noun.

No, do not bring back set pieces... Please...

Where is that Mockup art from ?

No offense to Tito, but you should totally have contracted out Tom Phillips to do this one. Would have been amazing.

Maybe bring back the whole set-piece idea from the early APs and have him do one of those in this issue?

Well... no offense to Tom Phillips, but he's never written an Adventure Path installment before. And after having been burned pretty badly in the past in assigning something as enormous and complex and difficult as an Adventure Path installment to authors we've not worked with before and having semi-disasters result, I've adopted the policy of "only one new author per AP, and said new author must first prove himself by writing several other things for us first."

Which is Mike Shel in this case—he's writing the second adventure.

And set pieces aren't coming back.

Tito, on the other hand, has been writing Adventure Path installments for longer than Pathfinder's been around.

Where is that Mockup art from ?

The background's from the mohrg article in Undead Revisited. The night hag is from Carrion Crown, I think... not sure.

Erik Freund wrote:

No offense to Tito, but you should totally have contracted out Tom Phillips to do this one. Would have been amazing.

Maybe bring back the whole set-piece idea from the early APs and have him do one of those in this issue?

Well... no offense to Tom Phillips, but he's never written an Adventure Path installment before. And after having been burned pretty badly in the past in assigning something as enormous and complex and difficult as an Adventure Path installment to authors we've not worked with before and having semi-disasters result, I've adopted the policy of "only one new author per AP, and said new author must first prove himself by writing several other things for us first."

Which is Mike Shel in this case—he's writing the second adventure.

And set pieces aren't coming back.

Tito, on the other hand, has been writing Adventure Path installments for longer than Pathfinder's been around.

You forgot "Tito Leati is awesome" and "Tito Leati does the best handouts"!

James Jacobs wrote:

Erik Freund wrote:

No offense to Tito, but you should totally have contracted out Tom Phillips to do this one. Would have been amazing.

Maybe bring back the whole set-piece idea from the early APs and have him do one of those in this issue?

Well... no offense to Tom Phillips, but he's never written an Adventure Path installment before. And after having been burned pretty badly in the past in assigning something as enormous and complex and difficult as an Adventure Path installment to authors we've not worked with before and having semi-disasters result, I've adopted the policy of "only one new author per AP, and said new author must first prove himself by writing several other things for us first."

Which is Mike Shel in this case—he's writing the second adventure.

And set pieces aren't coming back.

Tito, on the other hand, has been writing Adventure Path installments for longer than Pathfinder's been around.

You forgot "Tito Leati is awesome" and "Tito Leati does the best handouts"!

Tito is da awesome; The Champion''s Belt

+1 to that my friend. I can still hear the arena's roars.

Not as excited for the shattered star one as I am was for the last three but hopefully the monsters in there bestiaries make up for it.

Huh. It's from קליפות? I'm really not used to seeing that word in English. Glad to see that there's more of the Jewish Mythos and Mysticism in Pathfinder than I thought. I was just happy when I saw the Dybbuk.

Windsong Abbey Though? Why am I suddenly worried about Sonic Attacks? if I remember correctly, the entire building is like a giant sound amplifier or pipe organ of some sort?

“The Asylum Stone” is a Pathfinder Roleplaying Game adventure for 7th-level characters

“Beyond the Doomsday Door” is a Pathfinder Roleplaying Game adventure for 8th-level characters

... That can't be right.

Tito, on the other hand, has been writing Adventure Path installments for longer than Pathfinder's been around.

Speaking of old farts... :)

James Jacobs wrote:

Tito, on the other hand, has been writing Adventure Path installments for longer than Pathfinder's been around.

Speaking of old farts... :)

Those are the best ones. Unless they linger...

No offense to Tito, but you should totally have contracted out Tom Phillips to do this one. Would have been amazing.

Maybe bring back the whole set-piece idea from the early APs and have him do one of those in this issue?

Thanks, Erik. You honor me, but Tito is a firmly established AP writer. I'm just an RPG Superstar contender who's only written a few feats for Ultimate Combat. Thanks for the praise but like James says, I have to prove myself first. Trust me, Tito's work will be leaps and bounds over anything I could produce at this point.

And while we're on the subject of this AP installment...

Tito? Is he italian?

My only reservation about this adventure is that it's the 4th in the AP and it starts at 8th level, unless the product description has a misprint as of 6/8/2012. If an AP is gonna end where I'd really love it to (17th level), the 4th adventure would ideally be for 10th level, allowing for a spread of 3 levels over each of the first 3 adventures, and it would finish at 13th. Then adventure 5 in the AP would take PCs from 13th to 15th (a 2 level jump) and the 6th adventure would take PCs from 15th to 17th (again, a 2 level jump). I do realize that almost none of the APs to date have finished at 17th or higher (Rise of the Runelords being the only exception, maybe?), but I can always dream.

According to the outline I'm looking at, this adventure should start at 10th level.

Adam, thanks for the fast update! I was hoping it was a misprint. I know that this is still no guarantee that this AP will break the trend of APs finishing at 15th/16th level, but having the 4th adventure start at 10th level is certainly a step in the right direction.

Product description updated to say 10th level instead of 8th!

Thanks Liz. For whatever reason, whenever I look at the product description for an adventure, the first thing I do is skim the description for the level range. This one jumped right at me since adventure number 3 in the AP was for 7th level. Having adventure 4 set for 8th level didn't really add up.

The problem is that with the space available for adventures, trying to "go beyond 16" results in final adventures where you fight dozens of clone troopers who all share one statblock, due to PF high-CR statblocks taking up so much space. I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

The problem is that with the space available for adventures, trying to "go beyond 16" results in final adventures where you fight dozens of clone troopers who all share one statblock, due to PF high-CR statblocks taking up so much space. I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

Great. There goes our Star Wars/G.I. Joe mashup plans. ;)

The problem is that with the space available for adventures, trying to "go beyond 16" results in final adventures where you fight dozens of clone troopers who all share one statblock, due to PF high-CR statblocks taking up so much space. I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

I can see that. In my own campaigns, after around level 12, the number of encounters/level goes down, and the encounters that do occur are each of a more significant nature. I try to remove the encounters that would have only been present in order to chew up the PCs' resources (charges, spells, what have you) in favor of major story changers, since each encounter takes longer at the higher levels.

For my group, high level gameplay starts to feel more like a game of Vampire: The Masquerade after level 12 or so; the PCs are almost like immortals or superheros so the combats that do occur should each be something special, not just an effort to wear down the points remaining on their Protection From Fire spells before they meet the BBEG.

I definitely wouldn't want the waves of Cobra Vipers that you mentioned, but I would choose an adventure that had only 7 enounters (each with its own, admittedly long, stat block) that finished at 17th level, as opposed to say, an adventure with 10 encounters (each with its own stat block, slightly shorter than the level 17 stat blocks) that finished at 16th level.

To each their own. It just gets frustrating for my players and me when they end an AP at 16th level, before they get to use their best abilities; 9th level spells, for example. Yes, I could (and sometimes do) homebrew something. But I'm an amateur hobbyist and high level adventure design is arguably the hardest type of adventure design. I'd rather pay professionals to do it.

I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

CO-BRAAAAAA!

Gorbacz wrote:

I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

CO-BRAAAAAA!

I'm sure you have some leftover bad guys from your Serpent's Skull adventure, Neil. :D

Could somebody enlighten me about the Doomsday Door? Couldn't find anything useful here or over at the Wiki. Is it something Golarion specific or does it refer to something completely different?

Ruyan.

Neil Spicer wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

I'd much prefer more variety in opponents instead of waves after waves of Cobra Vipers.

CO-BRAAAAAA!

I'm sure you have some leftover bad guys from your Serpent's Skull adventure, Neil. :D

LOL. I'm sure I can scare some up. :->

Could somebody enlighten me about the Doomsday Door? Couldn't find anything useful here or over at the Wiki. Is it something Golarion specific or does it refer to something completely different?

Ruyan.

You can't find anything because it's new.

RuyanVe wrote:

Could somebody enlighten me about the Doomsday Door? Couldn't find anything useful here or over at the Wiki. Is it something Golarion specific or does it refer to something completely different?

Ruyan.

You can't find anything because it's new.

Correct. The Doomsday Door is new, but it's linked to several established things.

And while the outline does indeed have this adventure starting at 10th level... it might end up starting at 11th level. The first adventure's pretty... big...

Windsong Abbey's fairly old though I think it was in the Varisia Article in RotRL actually.

So you might be able to scare up some info on that.

I've got a AP #3 sitting on my shelf, so I know about Windsong Abbey - thanks, everybody.

The Doomsday Door is new, but it's linked to several established things

Now I'm even more curious...

Ruyan.

Tito? Is he italian?

He is a farty old cthulu apparently.

Manuelexar wrote:

Tito? Is he italian?

He is a farty old cthulu apparently.

Yeah, I'm a Mediterranean Cthulhu (never forget the "h"s in certain names).

You mean like in Hastu...*SPLORTCH*

I can pretty well guess that nothing good ever came in or out of the 'doomsday door'. Quite frankly, I don't wanna know anything about it until im standing in front of it and the DM tells the party something awful is about to happen. I can't wait for the this adventure path. The fleshing out of varisia alone is worth it. And oh please let there be runelord(s).

Yeah magical colorful ponies, caring bears, rainbows, and other "horrors" came from that dreaded door, so of course the "good" people of Golarion had to close it;)

Curses, you've found out that Whimsyshire is beyond the Door.

Secret Cow level?

...after having been burned pretty badly in the past in assigning something as enormous and complex and difficult as an Adventure Path installment to authors we've not worked with before and having semi-disasters result...

Do tell which AP instalment was this? Yeah I know you won't tell - persoanlly while there have been weak spots I've never found an AP I couldn't like.

James Jacobs wrote:

...after having been burned pretty badly in the past in assigning something as enormous and complex and difficult as an Adventure Path installment to authors we've not worked with before and having semi-disasters result...

Do tell which AP instalment was this? Yeah I know you won't tell - persoanlly while there have been weak spots I've never found an AP I couldn't like.

Pretty sure he's talking about this one. Notice how there are three writers just for the adventure? If you look at the reviews, you can see how that turned out.

We might never know, because James and the other sub-editors are capable of saving a weak submission: for instance, Hook Mountain Massacre came in way too long and JJ had to wrangle it into a decent shape for an AP volume.

That said, Jam412 has a solid guess. Very solid.

Really looking forward to that Qlippoth aricle...i hope we get to know some more about the layers they live on and the Qlippoth lords!

Qilppoth?!?!? Why must you be so far away? I have needs, a qilppoth tiefling discovering her heritage, and a need to torment her with what could be! Book get here faster!

Now that my shock and fist shaking at time and my inability to move about in it beyond the norm has passed will this article on qilppoth be like the ecology of the werewolf article in carrion crown and will we be seeing new qilppoth showing up in this bestiary I ask with starry eyed hope?

Stratagemini wrote:

Doomsday Door? Hmmm... Alliterative Artifacts of Annihilation are my Favorite!

Also? the essay on Qlippoth! Will it include how to pronounce that word?

Well... It's a real-world word. I pronoucne it:

CLIP-oth

Not sure how 100% accurate that might be, though, since I don't speak Hebrew...

Wikipedia has more info about that.

The correct way to pronounce it would be more akin to CLIP-ot (making a "t" sound with the tounge but not with the teeth).

Now that I know the origin of the word it just sounds really lame to me... that happens many times in fantasy though. espcially when the word "Kishta" (which we here in Israel use to shoo off cats or little children) is being used to dismiss summoned demons. Just makes you laugh.

If I recall correctly, Paizo also created a race of giants called "Nephilim", another Hebrew word. In Magic: The Gathering, one of the ten guilds of Ravnica is called "Orzhov", which in Hebrew means: "Golden Light".

Always amusing to find that my first language is considerd to be arcane and mysterious to those who speak ny second language.

Actually they did not create the nephilim but fleshed out the story of Gen 6:1-4. The "giants" of v. 4 are "nephilim" in Hebrew.