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I just got back from playing this, it was tough, I have trouble seeing how a party of appropriate level standard pathfinder characters can survive this.
This was fun but difficult when not power-gaming.
I just got back from playing this, it was tough, I have trouble seeing how a party of appropriate level standard pathfinder characters can survive this.
** spoiler omitted **
This was fun but difficult when not power-gaming.
I've run it three times with no power builds present, including once with essentially all pregens (one was a cleric who was worse than pregen Kyra, the other three were pregen bard, pregen druid, and pregen paladin) and they won every time. The pregen party actually annihilated the scenario, with the surest win of any of the groups (the other two times were touch-and-go, but they were playing up with 5 characters that averaged to level 5 both times and never had any level 7s, and they had to fight the 6 player 6-7 version--
One thing--it's not deeper darkness, only darkness, so if nobody in the party has darkvision, you can beat it with the 2nd level spells darkvision or alter self, and any character can spend 2 PP for an oil of daylight, which I generally recommend, along with a potion of fly if you're melee, ASAP. Blind-fight is a big help too if you have it--it makes fighting in the dark not so bad.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I just got back from playing this, it was tough, I have trouble seeing how a party of appropriate level standard pathfinder characters can survive this.
** spoiler omitted **
This was fun but difficult when not power-gaming.
Darkvision is a 2nd-level spell, thus not beyond reason to have access to at 3rd-4th level. It's also a mere 300gp as a potion, and anyone with at least 5 Fame (at 3rd level and up, that's everyone) can purchase it as such.
An oil of daylight costs 750gp or 2PP, so anyone could have that as well.
• If anyone just happens to be playing a dwarf, half-orc, tiefling or aasimar, they aren't even slowed down by darkness.
• If anyone has access to darkvision (whether as a spell or as a potion), then they merely need to spend a turn responding to darkness and then they're fine.
• If even one person in the entire party brought an oil of daylight, then the entire party gets to fight in bright light, end of story.
These are trained field agents of an organization whose daily operations include exploring and dungeon-delving. Expecting that after having completed six missions (the minimum before being eligible for this one), such an agent would be carrying a few solutions to common hazards... well, I wouldn't really call that "power-gaming". I'd call that "roleplaying a campaign-appropriate concept".
If you've received your fourth GM star, and do not have this scenario, please email Mike Brock (mike.brock@paizo.com).
I've read this post a few times and I apologize if I'm taking it the wrong way, but it's comes across to me as: "If you're playing a 3rd or 4th level character and aren't prepared for this hazard, you're an idiot." (Or at least, you're a poor player.) I think that's a bad stance and here's why.
One-third of playable races in PFS are completely uninhibited by darkness.
If your point is that one-third of any given party is playing a race with darkvision, I think you're making a false correlation between the numbers and reality. I've played and judged 160+ PFS scenarios and the number of PCs with darkvision has been far less than 33%. And if it weren't for the power creep of the aasimar, I'd have seen even fewer. (Aasimar seem to be everywhere these days.)
If your point is that people should be playing more races with darkvision...well, people are going to play what they like to play. If that's a race without darkvision, it's their choice and shouldn't be penalized for it. (Though they need to understand their limitations and prepare for it.)
Your mileage may vary, but that's what I've seen.
Darkvision is a 2nd-level spell, thus not beyond reason to have access to at 3rd-4th level. It's also a mere 300gp as a potion, and anyone with at least 5 Fame (at 3rd level and up, that's everyone) can purchase it as such.
It's not beyond reason to have the spell, but how many 3rd or 4th characters are going to tie up a 2nd level slot -- their highest spell slot -- for something that might come up?
PCs can buy a potion of darkvision, but that's roughly 10% of a 3rd level PC's gold. And you're talking about an item that is a contingency item; most of the time, an ioun torch is just fine for dark conditions.
By 3rd or 4th level, most PCs are going to be looking at purchasing a wand of cure light wounds, masterwork weapon(s), masterwork armor, potions of cure light wounds. Magic armor, magic weapons, and a cloak of resistance are in the realm of possibility, too. All that stuff can be used all the time -- not just some of the time -- and at 3rd or 4th level will quickly beggar a character.
What about other contingency items? Have a run in with harpies (Silken Caravan)? Well, you might think you need a potion of fly and/or some form of protection from evil. How about an allip (Black Waters)? Getting a magic weapon (or the ability to make your weapon magic) is high on your list, unless you want to be useless against incorporeal creatures.
My point is this: There are only so many PPs and so much gold to spend at low levels and a lot of things that happen occasionally, that it's hard to be prepared for all of them.
An oil of daylight costs 750gp or 2PP, so anyone could have that as well.
See above.
If anyone has access to darkvision (whether as a spell or as a potion), then they merely need to spend a turn responding to darkness and then they're fine.
In general, you're right. If a PC has access to a potion of darkvision, they'll be a round behind, but overall, OK.
For Day of the Demon, the quarters are tight and drinking a potion provokes an attack of opportunity, as does retrieving it unless you have a handy haversack. In this case, it's from a creature that threatens at 5 and 10 ft., has combat reflexes, and has sneak attack. It's not unreasonable for a PC to get smacked twice trying to pull and drink a potion. That's a lot of hurt. (Average 36 points, including sneak, with two hits from the spear.) (And heaven forbid, you're trying to do this at high tier, with multiple babaus threatening you.)
These are trained field agents of an organization whose daily operations include exploring and dungeon-delving. Expecting that after having completed six missions (the minimum before being eligible for this one), such an agent would be carrying a few solutions to common hazards... well, I wouldn't really call that "power-gaming". I'd call that "roleplaying a campaign-appropriate concept".
I cannot stress enough that until you run into the bad side of darkness, you don't know how bad -- and deadly -- it can be. By then, it may be too late for your character. In Day of the Demon, given the terrain and the fact that the babau can cast darkness at will, you have a recipe for disaster for an inexperienced or unprepared group.
You are going to see widely varying degrees of preparedness of the players. (Do you know what it's like to face two encounters in a mod against incorporeal creatures at Tier 7-8 with a 4-person party and with a fighter without a magic weapon? I do. It ain't pretty.) When PCs can't contribute, the fight becomes that much harder for those that can.
As for the mod, I do not necessarily think that either the creature or the hazard in question is inappropriate or overpowering. I don't have a problem with the mod, though I think at low tier you're going to see a lot of PC deaths. I do think that trivializing the danger because there are half a dozen ways around is a stretch.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I've read this post a few times and I apologize if I'm taking it the wrong way, but it's comes across to me as: "If you're playing a 3rd or 4th level character and aren't prepared for this hazard, you're an idiot." (Or at least, you're a poor player.)
Good thing that's not even remotely close to what I said, then.
I didn't say "If you're not prepared, you're an idiot/poor player."
I said "If you ARE prepared, that doesn't make you some kind of dirty power-gamer."
"Doing X does not make me bad" is waaaaaay different than "NOT doing X makes YOU bad."
So apparently it's okay for someone to openly criticize people who play the "prepared field agent" concept, but to defend oneself or others with "We're not having badwrongfun" constitutes calling other people idiots or poor players.
Good thing that's not even remotely close to what I said, then.
Ah, well, then again I apologize. It's not the first time I've been wrong and, sadly, it won't be the last.
So apparently it's okay for someone to openly criticize people who play the "prepared field agent" concept, but to defend oneself or others with "We're not having badwrongfun" constitutes calling other people idiots or poor players.
That wasn't my intent, but given that I misconstrued your post it's a fair criticism of my post.
Does this become legal for non 4-star GMs on Jan 26th and legal for regular play?
Usually the old EX becomes a regular scenario when the new EX comes out. I don't remember how accurate previous dates have been, but assuming that date is accurate then it should, yes.
