why not just make no cap......and only end your aps at lvl 36Because if we make a game that has no cap and then only provide support for things up to level 36, folks would rightfully be disappointed and annoyed at us for not supporting levels higher than 36.
And just because we'll cap epic level doesn't mean we can't then do SUPER EPIC later on and raise the cap to, say 60. If there's enough demand for that level of power.
In other words, I'm relatively sure there's enough demand to make a level extension to something like 36 and justify our time in creating and supporting those rules; I'm not so sure there's enough demand to support much beyond that point.
After Epic you can then release the Immortals Rules Boxed Set.
What? Nobody knows about the Original D&D Immortals boxed set? I'm disappointed.
Creative Director
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What? Nobody knows about the Original D&D Immortals boxed set? I'm disappointed.
It's pretty much why I've been slinging around a level cap of 36 for the past few years of me talking about a potential post-20th level ruleset, so I at least know about that boxed set...
What? Nobody knows about the Original D&D Immortals boxed set? I'm disappointed.It's pretty much why I've been slinging around a level cap of 36 for the past few years of me talking about a potential post-20th level ruleset, so I at least know about that boxed set...
Seems like a reasonable number, too, based on my experience. Power ramps up like crazy from 10-20, and that doesn't change much from 21-30. It wasn't until after 30th level that things started to return to the same sort of even keel that the levels from 3-9 seem to have.
Plus I think the "keep going with existing progressions" works up until that point - but it starts falling apart soon after (at level 30, a DC 30 Will save is likely to require a 5 or less on the die for a cleric but likely to require a 15 or more for a fighter).
So will this AP in addition to Carrion Crown #5 and Jade Reagent #1 all be released in the month of July as indicated on the Product Schedule???
Probably, yes. July is a brutal month for subscribers. My bill last July was HUGE. Offset somewhat by the lighter than normal August, but July is still brutal.
Very cool.
Looks like the guy on the cover has seen better days.
No. I'm fairly certain he'd claim his best days lie ahead... ;-D
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Looks like the guy on the cover has seen better days.No. I'm fairly certain he'd claim his best days lie ahead... ;-D
He might think that, but look at him. Besides I am fairly sure the PC's will be killing him at some point in the adventure. So i think he is running out of days and is soon going to have a really bad day. I won't even get into the kinda hair day he is having. :)
Nice new art and look at nice undead monster in the background.
Hmm... could this be the Ravener's first cover-appearance?
Hmm... could this be the Ravener's first cover-appearance?
Undead Revisited!
As many of you know, Daigle and I are life-long friends, and though we both write in the industry, we juggle so many projects that we rarely have the luxury of collaborating together to create true awesomeness. That thing in the cover's foreground is the result of one of those rare collaborations -the story I was crafting demanded something of certain unique ability that only Daigle could deliver, and your PCs will SUFFER for it. Bwahahahaha!
Huh. Starts at level 13. That's the 2nd lowest of any AP so far.
For reference: all the 3.5 APs had their final chapter start at 14, and KM and SS started their finales at 15. The oddball is CoC at 11.
I approve! I hate highlevel play, and in my group we've been talking about stopping APs at book 4 or 5, because after that "it's not worth it." Hrm, this one might be playable. Especially since CC so far seems a little light on combat and much heavier on the "other aspects" of the game (skill checks, roleplay, etc). And I really like Brandon's stuff, so maybe we'll run this one to the end.
Yay keeping levels down!
I fear I must interject an instant "boo!" for ending another AP at low levels. I already get enough grief from my players for ending the AP's at level 16-17, because formerly ( before I began running Paizos AP's and was instead doing homebrews ) they were used to having the campaigns end at level 20.
I understand the argument from both sides, so I really tried to provide some campaign extension materials in Shadows of Gallowspire, along with a few potentially dangling plot hooks (like what happens when you hold a lich's phylactery hostage?). Of course, please note that Wes provides a whole ARTICLE on extending the campaign in this final issue (see "Nefarious plots and macabre menaces to prolong the terrors of your Carrion Crown campaign," above).
ALSO, you've got Dungeons of Golarion debuting the same month as Carrion Crown closes, and Jason gives the inner dungeons of Gallowspire the full treatment there, so that if you want to take the AP's climatic final battle that culimates at Gallowspire's sealed towertop even further, you can crack those seals open for your players and expore what lies beneath.
So, what I'm saying is that we can all have our cake at eat it, too! This AP stops at 15th for those guys like Erik who don't dig on high-level play, and for those that do, there is unprecedented support for that playstyle both in this book and in supporting publications. Rock!
I understand the argument from both sides, so I really tried to provide some campaign extension materials in Shadows of Gallowspire, along with a few potentially dangling plot hooks (what happens when you hold a lich's phylactery hostage?). Of course, please note that Wes provides a whole ARTICLE on extending the campaign in this final issue (see "Nefarious plots and macabre menaces to prolong the terrors of your Carrion Crown campaign," above). ALSO, you've got Dungeons of Golarion debuting the same month as Carrion Crown closes, and Jason gives the inner dungeons of Gallowspire the full treatment there, so that if you want to take the AP's climatic final battle that culimates at Gallowspire's towertop even further, you can crack those seals open for your players and expore what lies beneath.
So, what I'm saying is that we can all have our cake at eat it, too! This AP stops at 15th for those guys like Erik who don't dig on high-level play, and for those that do, there is unprecedented support for that playstyle both in this book and in supporting publications. Rock!
Even if I'd run it in the next time to come ( only in case my currently running Kingmaker campaign crashes and burns :p ), I fear Jade Regent would rip me away from continueing it after its normal ending. But thanks nonetheless for your detailed answer. :)
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What REALLY determines what level the APs actually reach is how much adventure each author can squeeze into the AP. Simple adventures which are either linear or don't mess around with complex rules subsystems (or don't use a lot of exotic rules that require lots of reprinting) tend to get more encounters in there, and thus more XP.
Some adventures can do this. Others can't. Which is why we don't always have adventures in APs that always cover the exact same level range, and why we never know for 100% certainty how high-level an AP will get until we're developing the last adventure (which generally happens 6 months AFTER we start working on the first adventure, which is generally 4 to 6 months before we actually plot the adventure path out).
What REALLY determines what level the APs actually reach is how much adventure each author can squeeze into the AP. Simple adventures which are either linear or don't mess around with complex rules subsystems (or don't use a lot of exotic rules that require lots of reprinting) tend to get more encounters in there, and thus more XP.
I'm not 100% buying this argument. If the forums are any indication, people aren't following the XP track very closely anymore anyway, instead leveling up at the right "spots" as indicated by the sidebar at the beginning of the issue. And for those still bean-counting, it's relatively easy to throw in extra sources of XP anywhere you want, and you've done this already: research chekcs a la CC#1, meeting NPCs a la CoC#1, or hunting down specific monsters a la every issue of KM. To some extent you're forced to do this: going from 3.5 to Pathfinder you switched from the Fast XP chart to the Medium XP chart, yet have the same pagecount to work with.
So I don't see the "it ends up how it ends up" explanation. You can have things end up whereever you want them to.
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Creative Director
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What REALLY determines what level the APs actually reach is how much adventure each author can squeeze into the AP. Simple adventures which are either linear or don't mess around with complex rules subsystems (or don't use a lot of exotic rules that require lots of reprinting) tend to get more encounters in there, and thus more XP.I'm not 100% buying this argument. If the forums are any indication, people aren't following the XP track very closely anymore anyway, instead leveling up at the right "spots" as indicated by the sidebar at the beginning of the issue. And for those still bean-counting, it's relatively easy to throw in extra sources of XP anywhere you want, and you've done this already: research chekcs a la CC#1, meeting NPCs a la CoC#1, or hunting down specific monsters a la every issue of KM. To some extent you're forced to do this: going from 3.5 to Pathfinder you switched from the Fast XP chart to the Medium XP chart, yet have the same pagecount to work with.
So I don't see the "it ends up how it ends up" explanation. You can have things end up whereever you want them to.
You don't have to buy the argument, cause it's not an argument.
It's how adventure paths work, and has been from the start.
So I don't see the "it ends up how it ends up" explanation. You can have things end up whereever you want them to.
Just because some people ignore XP doesn't mean everyone does. Paizo can't ignore a major part of the rules just because it is inconvenient to some.
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On this epic level baddie scale how would you rank the following in Golarion in order of power
Tar-Baphon
Baba Yaga
Most powerful Runelord
Treerazer
(have I missed anyone of the class of CR 20++?)There's no way to rank Tar-Baphon or Baba Yaga yet; they could be 25th level or 55th level, we have no way of knowing. Both are capable of incredible feats such as...
** spoiler omitted **
As for other above-CR 20s, there's the ghost necromancer Geb, Kortash Kain (male ghoul wizard 6/cleric 6/mystic theurge 10), and the archmage Nex (at least 23rd level). There are probably many more who have been more discreet in their paths to power.
An Achaekek the Red Mantis! Appeared in one of the earlier AP in the bestiary at CR30. I'd say he's a big gun.
Ouch is this every July?Probably, yes. July is a brutal month for subscribers. My bill last July was HUGE. Offset somewhat by the lighter than normal August, but July is still brutal.So will this AP in addition to Carrion Crown #5 and Jade Reagent #1 all be released in the month of July as indicated on the Product Schedule???
Not really, technically the late July is the August shipment (we won't get another order until September). However, this year they also got caught back up on releases that had fallen a bit behind, thus 2 APs, 2 Campaign Setting books, and 2 sets of Cards (and back to back months with Companions).
July 2011
- (early July) Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Balance (PFRPG) Print Edition Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription
- (early July) GameMastery Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon GameMastery Maps Subscription
- (early July) Pathfinder Module: The Harrowing (PFRPG) Print Edition Pathfinder Modules Subscription
- (early July) Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dungeons of Golarion (PFRPG) Print Edition Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription
- (early July) Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Carrion Crown Poster Map Folio Print Edition Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription
- (early July) Pathfinder Adventure Path #47: Ashes at Dawn (Carrion Crown 5 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Tales: Master of Devils Pathfinder Tales Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Combat (OGL) Hardcover Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription
- (late July) GameMastery Chase Cards Deck (PFRPG) GameMastery Cards Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Player Companion: Goblins of Golarion (PFRPG) Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription
- (late July) GameMastery Map Pack: Shrines GameMastery Maps Subscription
- (late July) The Planet Killers (Trade Paperback) Planet Stories Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide (PFRPG) Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic (PFRPG) Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Adventure Path #48: Shadows of Gallowspire (Carrion Crown 6 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription
- (late July) Pathfinder Adventure Path #49: The Brinewall Legacy (Jade Regent 1 of 6) (PFRPG) Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription
So my "early July" shipment was $104 (including 3 extra items), and "late July" will probably be over $160, plus shipping.
So yes, July is often like this. But there's usually no shipments in August.
I could have sworn there was like about 20 post here before.
There is something funky going on, and bad timing at that.
When I click on the "(3 New)" notification, it brings me to the home page rather that the discussion, and of course there's the weird link to the previous product page that Nodnard posted. HEY -that's my named spelled backwards! What's going on here! =-)
Still a bit early in Seattle for the PMG to see, but I suspect it'll be fixed in a jiffy!
HEY -that's my named spelled backwards! What's going on here! =-)No! That's MY name spelled backwards!
So, my name is your avatar's name spelled backwards? ;-)
I swear, getting the little "we're about to send you stuff" email is the biggest cocktease in the world. I spend the next week or so checking my email every hour, like a maniac, hoping that the pdfs are ready to tide me over. After which I check my mailbox like a maniac for the next two weeks.
Everything looks fine to me - except there are two threads for this book.
I swear, getting the little "we're about to send you stuff" email is the biggest cocktease in the world. I spend the next week or so checking my email every hour, like a maniac, hoping that the pdfs are ready to tide me over. After which I check my mailbox like a maniac for the next two weeks.
No kidding.
And the first thing I do when I get the PDFs is look over all the bestiaries seeing if there's anything nasty I can throw at my Friday night game. Unless it's a rulebook, then I'm checking on the feats ...
My theory:
The thread started acting up, because the Whispering Tyrant is using it somehow to escape his prison at Gallowspire!
The thread started acting up, because the Whispering Tyrant is using it somehow to escape his prison at Gallowspire!
Yeeesh, and I thought we had experts writing that stuff to prevent such things from happening...
Can we fix it?
Did Jason have anything to do with this issue of the AP? I know that when it was first put out, it said that the author was going to be Jason, then it seemed like it went to Jason and Brandon both, then finally just to Brandon. Was he too busy with Ultimate Combat to contribute in the way that was initially planned?
Did Jason have anything to do with this issue of the AP? I know that when it was first put out, it said that the author was going to be Jason, then it seemed like it went to Jason and Brandon both, then finally just to Brandon. Was he too busy with Ultimate Combat to contribute in the way that was initially planned?
Jason did initially claim this AP chapter for his own, but found himself juggling too much awesome, and handed the reigns over to me at NeonCon. We initially hoped to split duties on it, with me handling the journey and Renchurch stuff, and him tackling Gallowspire, but in the end we just nodded in understanding and I took the whole thing on, inspired by a page of half-drunken notes I scribbled in Vegas while we spoke on dark subjects. I know it took a lot for Jason to put Gallowspire in my hands, but I hope I did the old boy right.
...inspired by a page of half-drunken notes I scribbled in Vegas while we spoke on dark subjects.
I guess this time "what happens in Vegas" escaped...