Is this a dumb idea? People are just ripping it apart.

For all those saying this is a horrible idea for PFS. Would you rather play with someone that has a poorly designed character that participates in the adventure and combat, or someone with an extremely well designed character that is so afraid of having the character die he won't enter combat, or says I need 20s to hit, so I won't even try? (I've seen both those cases in PFS play, and wasn't happy with either player.)

As you said, I wouldn't like either, but I'd rather have the former. If you're not even willing to play Pathfinder, why show up at a game?

Ok, I can see what people mean about my expectations about the style and flow of the games, especially in a PFS setting where things are much more rigid.

How about a Crossblooded Sorcerer with the Brutal and Warped bloodlines?

It would give him some melee with the claws, and eventually wings. The Brutal part will punch up his damage at lower levels, especially with Gifted Adept on something like Burning Hands. And Warped would give his magic that oddness with things like Youthful Appearance twisting to add odd bonuses and such by warping the effect.

This way, while his main combat focus is the crossbow, he has a viable fall back if things start closing in, or he gets overwhelmed, either pop claws and shred things, or if they're back further burn them.

The lessened amount of spells known would fit also, showing his..reluctance to focus and learn more magic than he has to.

I posted this over on the PFS boards, but I'd like everyone else's take as well.

I play my characters more for story and feel/theme/mood than mechanical benefit, if I can find a mechanic that's in theme and works well I won;t discard it, but I'd rather focus on the *character* rather than the crunch.

Thoughts:

- I <3's Commoners

- Most GM's (or PFS) aren't a fan of NPC classes on PC's, cause they suck.

- In a few Pathefinder threads, people have said that a Wizard with no spellbook is effectively a commoner once they cast the spells they have prepared, since they can't prepare anymore...even cantrips (they're at will, but still need to be prepared, to change them, otherwise you're locked into the same set of 3 at lvl 1)

- So I could play a Wizard...who's spellbook is either lost or stolen....and only has a few spells prepared, barring cantrips. Basically a commoner with a very limited resource, and the ability to use scrolls and such (if they're spells on the sorcerer/wizard spell list)...I like this idea ALOT.

- or I could have my spellbook, but leave slots open (meaning needing 15min to prepare a spell before casting it) to represent a more....ritual style of magic..

I'm trying to find a way to show a character that, while he's capable of magic, is *very* hesitant to use it, due to past problems, or even an innate fear of it. The magic would be a last resort/hail mary type thing, that, while powerful...I'm not sure if I can describe the feeling.

posted the idea to facebook for my gaming friends to talk over and everyone is basically ripping it apart :(

Concept-wise...he's pretty awesome.

It's not like I'd be ripping the spells out of a character built as a caster, he'd be designed with this in mind. Hell Scrolls could be a viable way for quicker magic...

Ideally people won't suspect him of being a caster at all, he seem more like a weaker fighter or a rogue maybe, crossbow at range, lots of skills, heavy on spellcraft, knowledge arcana and similar things.

I can't think...

Would you actually pull this in a PFS game and risk getting everyone at the table killed?

I understand ignoring class features for concept sake, but you NEVER do that in organize play if it is going to gimp your character.

Like in a home game, I was a master summoner, we needed a skill monkey. I could have turned my eidolon into a skill monkey, but I didn't want to use my eidolon. That didn't fit my concept. Hence why I was playing a master summoner, not a normal summoner that chose to just not use his main class feature.

In a home game the GM can work with you. The same is not true for organized play. You might have fun with your character, but that is no reason to risk ruining the fun of everyone else at the table.

For all those saying this is a horrible idea for PFS. Would you rather play with someone that has a poorly designed character that participates in the adventure and combat, or someone with an extremely well designed character that is so afraid of having the character die he won't enter combat, or says I need 20s to hit, so I won't even try? (I've seen both those cases in PFS play, and wasn't happy with either player.)

The problem is the player with his concept IS essentially refusing to play the setting. PFS Scenarios don't really have much support for a character who acts only rarely. Or who reserves his competence to one moment per adventure. The OP also seems to think that extreme backgrounds are what define his roleplaying ability. They aren't. What defines roleplaying is the ability to pull of a character that convincingly belongs in the story or setting that character is placed in.

Ok, I'm trying to get help making it a viable concept. I've gotten the hint already.

Mind responding to my more recent posts?

Vod Canockers wrote:

For all those saying this is a horrible idea for PFS. Would you rather play with someone that has a poorly designed character that participates in the adventure and combat, or someone with an extremely well designed character that is so afraid of having the character die he won't enter combat, or says I need 20s to hit, so I won't even try? (I've seen both those cases in PFS play, and wasn't happy with either player.)

The problem is the player with his concept IS essentially refusing to play the setting. PFS Scenarios don't really have much support for a character who acts only rarely. Or who reserves his competence to one moment per adventure. The OP also seems to think that extreme backgrounds are what define his roleplaying ability. They aren't. What defines roleplaying is the ability to pull of a character that convincingly belongs in the story or setting that character is placed in.

That may be, but it certainly didn't answer my question. Also nowhere did I read that the OP wanted a character that didn't participate, or only did once per scenario. His character would be no worse than any other "alpha strike" character.

Ok, I can see what people mean about my expectations about the style and flow of the games, especially in a PFS setting where things are much more rigid.

How about a Crossblooded Sorcerer with the Brutal and Warped bloodlines?

It would give him some melee with the claws, and eventually wings. The Brutal part will punch up his damage at lower levels, especially with Gifted Adept on something like Burning Hands. And Warped would give his magic that oddness with things like Youthful Appearance twisting to add odd bonuses and such by warping the effect.

This way, while his main combat focus is the crossbow, he has a viable fall back if things start closing in, or he gets overwhelmed, either pop claws and shred things, or if they're back further burn them.

The lessened amount of spells known would fit also, showing his..reluctance to focus and learn more magic than he has to.

I still think if you want to be a combat character with a bit of magic (especially of the variety that doesn't like to USE said magic), you should go Dragon Disciple. You still get your claws, and if you wanna do Crossblooded you can still get either Brutal or Warped (I suggest Warped of the two, since Draconic basically gives better versions of all of its abilities).

A Crossblooded Draconic/Warped character who goes into Dragon Disciple gets some neat effects from your Form of the Dragon SLA (though I dunno if your character would use it) and so on.

As well, Dragon Disciple would give you some benefits to offset the fact that your character started off with 1/2 BaB (the extra Str, ferinstance), and makes a credible melee character.

You can keep a lot of the same flavor (reluctant caster, whose magic is a part of him, though one he doesn't wish to possess), have minimal casting (Your Form of the Dragon SLA could be his "Berserk Button" and make for cool moments where you hulk out and go to town on some a*#@%%$), but still be a solid addition to the party.

You don't have to be really optimized for it to work, but you're not USELESS like your original concept, which is what I and others took issue with.

Sub-optimal is fine, as long as you can pull your own weight.

If you are going this route I would say the only way to keep the other party member from getting upset with you is to make a martially viable caster. You may not be as good as a fighter all the time, but when the chips are down and you decide to break out the big guns as it were...it needs to be memorable and a big show. A level of wizard isn't going to cut it...after all the reason you hold back is because this power is dangerous.

I would be looking at Magus, Arcane Duelist, or Inquisitor.

All of them have some nice spells, access to scrolls or umd, and can do a fair amount of business with a sword. Magus is probably the best because you can take archetypes that really pare their spell list down for even more martial ability while not sacrficing over all spell level and they are really frighteningly potent when they Nova. Still the other two aren't slouches and come with their own diverse slate of abilities aside from spells that will keep you from being an anchor around the parties neck when you choose not to cast.

Ok, I can see what people mean about my expectations about the style and flow of the games, especially in a PFS setting where things are much more rigid.

How about a Crossblooded Sorcerer with the Brutal and Warped bloodlines?

I'm pretty sure that you can't combine Crossblooded with Wildblooded bloodlines in PFS. They both modify the same class feature (Bloodlines).

I'd look to Orc if you want to focus on melee. Imperious if you want to make a skill monkey. Draconic or Abyssal for claws (Draconic if your spells will focus on Evocation/blasting, Abyssal for Conjuration/summoning).

But for your concept, I may look at Martyred. The bloodline arcana (+1 effective CL to spells if you took damage the last round) seems very appropriate for a "desperate caster".

Overall, if you're primarily relying on your crossbow (Dex), falling back on claws for melee (Str) and maintaining the ability to cast spells (Cha) you may find your ability points spread too thin. Consider focusing on one form of physical combat, ranged or melee, and not pouring too many resources into the other as a backup.

For your last ditch spells, you're either going to need to maintain a high Charisma to keep the save DCs up, or you'll need to focus on spells that don't require saving throws.

For all those saying this is a horrible idea for PFS. Would you rather play with someone that has a poorly designed character that participates in the adventure and combat, or someone with an extremely well designed character that is so afraid of having the character die he won't enter combat, or says I need 20s to hit, so I won't even try? (I've seen both those cases in PFS play, and wasn't happy with either player.)

Don't forget the power gamer that flees when out of healing.

There are ways to make this concept work both on a role playing level and a power level so he wouldn't end up causing a TPK in PFS play. In fact I very tempted to play one myself. (Being a simple soul I would alternate fighter and sorcerer until becoming an arcane archer.)

The way to build this character is not to focus on rule mechanics but on story. Something like he doesn't sleep walk he sleep prepares spells. Each day he awakes to find the magic pulsing in his mind ready to be unleashed and in combat or a tense situation he can't help himself but use an appropriate spell. He goes to the market to get trail rations and crossbow bolts and finds himself at home with a wand of magic missile.

You provide the story background and dare I say it "fluff" information to role play your tortured and reluctant spell caster but mechanically you fulfill your party function.

example:
fighter1 "I didn't know you could cast fireball"
your spell caster "Neither did I"
cleric1 "That's what said about that web you cast that filled that hallway and let us escape those goblins"
your spell caster "Well, that was true, I ...

Unless you start a whole new thread, you will get people responding to your first post 2 years from now. Just ignore it since the topic has moved on.

Ok, I can see what people mean about my expectations about the style and flow of the games, especially in a PFS setting where things are much more rigid.

How about a Crossblooded Sorcerer with the Brutal and Warped bloodlines?

It would give him some melee with the claws, and eventually wings. The Brutal part will punch up his damage at lower levels, especially with Gifted Adept on something like Burning Hands. And Warped would give his magic that oddness with things like Youthful Appearance twisting to add odd bonuses and such by warping the effect.

This way, while his main combat focus is the crossbow, he has a viable fall back if things start closing in, or he gets overwhelmed, either pop claws and shred things, or if they're back further burn them.

The lessened amount of spells known would fit also, showing his..reluctance to focus and learn more magic than he has to.

Brutal and warped are wildblood lines. Mike Brock confirmed you can not, combine wildblooded with crossblooded. Many are not happy with the decision, but there it is.

If you don't want to multiclass with a martial class to get better weapon, you might want to get a trait like heirloom weapon or hunters eye to get a longbow. It is just a lot better weapon than a crossbow. But you may also want to consider 1 or 2 levels of ranger or barbarian to fight better with your claws when needed.

Ok, I'm trying to get help making it a viable concept. I've gotten the hint already.

Mind responding to my more recent posts?

Well Woldiblooded+Crossblooded won't work.

Most possible builds have been already shown. I see the following possibilities:

Sorcerer Sage bloodline - Intbased caster with just a few spells and many Skill Points.

Haunted Oracle - Divine Caster, Haunted by evil spirits.

Summoner - fears to use his Eidolon, which could be ghost- or demonlike.

Half-Elf Figther or Barbarian or Ranger with the Arcane Training trait - Get items like Neclace of Fireballs for going nova and Wands

(Maybe Archaeologist)Bard - You are a great skill monkey and can you your spells as a last resort.

Multiclass with Prestige Classes:
Rogue/Wizard, then Arcane Trickster - You are primarily a Rogue with rare spells for utility

Figther/Wizard, then Eldritch Knight - You make a solid martial and have some spells to help you out.

Any Full Bab class/Sorcerer, then Dragon Disciple - If you don't mind running around with magic claws this might be perfect

Any Full Bab class/Sorcerer or Wizard, then Arcane Archer - Concentrate on archery, nuke them with an enhanced arrow on rare occasions.

For all those saying this is a horrible idea for PFS. Would you rather play with someone that has a poorly designed character that participates in the adventure and combat, or someone with an extremely well designed character that is so afraid of having the character die he won't enter combat, or says I need 20s to hit, so I won't even try? (I've seen both those cases in PFS play, and wasn't happy with either player.)

As far as I can tell, the majority of posters on these forums fall squarely into the second category. As I said in another thread, most here aspire to a rather cowardly form of heroism, where being a "hero" is defined solely by power level, instead of what they actually choose to do with that power.

@OP

I just remembered that there is scroll user wizard archetype. It uses scrolls as weapons and shields and to a certain extent it can use more powerful magic (by casting higher level scrolls) then a regular wizard who uses it's own spells.

It might be exactly what you want in some way. It's melee. It saves spells. And archetype is very fun to play and unique.

There are ways to make this concept work both on a role playing level and a power level so he wouldn't end up causing a TPK in PFS play. In fact I very tempted to play one myself. (Being a simple soul I would alternate fighter and sorcerer until becoming an arcane archer.)

The way to build this character is not to focus on rule mechanics but on story. Something like he doesn't sleep walk he sleep prepares spells. Each day he awakes to find the magic pulsing in his mind ready to be unleashed and in combat or a tense situation he can't help himself but use an appropriate spell. He goes to the market to get trail rations and crossbow bolts and finds himself at home with a wand of magic missile.

You provide the story background and dare I say it "fluff" information to role play your tortured and reluctant spell caster but mechanically you fulfill your party function.

example:
fighter1 "I didn't know you could cast fireball"
your spell caster "Neither did I"
cleric1 "That's what said about that web you cast that filled that hallway and let us escape those goblins"
your spell caster "Well, that was true, I ...

Perfect! I hadn't thought of this angle, but it gives the feel I want for the character. Playing it as if it's pure self defence/instinct magic that he just...does, with no real explanation how.

@ all the other helpful ideas and clarifications:

Thank you :) It's sucks that's wildblooded and crossblooded won't combine. I *really* like the flavour of the Warped bloodline though, for the twisted effect it has on magic. Looked at some of the suggested bloodlines..Martyred looks really cool actually! Draconic looks interesting...so does Orc and Aberrant I like the natural reach and warping of the body aspect, though it lacks the awesome Warped abilities it's still got that flavour of unintended change.

what about Martyred/Aberrant Crossblooded?