tzizimine's page

ok, I think it should be viewable again

I don't know who all might still be following this thread, but Google Sites did a major update and now the site has been all weirdly formatted. The text is still there, but I will need some time this weekend to clean it up.

Not currently. I had a change to my normal work cycle. (hence not much activity on the forums). Once I'm back to a normal routine, I'll see what I can do about updating it and making it available.

Properly linking requirements between feats, races and prestige classes. It's not a complete scrap/start over, but more like having to go through a fair amount and tweak about 30-50 things all in the same way.

I have been fiddling with it, but with the most recent version of PCGen, I have had to start over again. So, if that happens, it will be next summer.

Interesting stuff. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Glad to hear it

tzizimine wrote:

I have looked at them and I see them, mechanically, as the ancestors a few generations back when lycanthropes were in the process of intentionally weakening their bloodline to survive. Shifters, as per the site, would be the great-grandchildren of skinshifters from Paizo. In particular, the _eventual_ ability to infect others is still available to skinshifters at very high levels. Regular shifters never get that ability and that is why they survived the Silver Purge.

Hmm... interesting. I'll take that into account in my own games. On another note, have you had to reconcile any weirdness from using both the Dreamscarred Press stuff and the Occult Adventures stuff? Say a player wants to be a Kalashtar Psychic, or maybe wants to know how the Spiritualist interacts with Possession and Exorcism, something along those lines.

I have only recently gotten Occult Adventures and have not read most of yet. That said, since the Dreamscarred Press is closer mechanically to the original 3.5 material, I _personally_ am sticking with that and not planning to rewrite the conversion with a *Dreamscarred* version and an *Occult Adventures* version for psionics vs. psychic magic.

That said, I'm sure it could be done and I might change my mind after finishing reading the OA. Kalashtar would make for great spiritualists and I would find favored class options, feats, etc that concentrate on peaceful willing possession and performing exorcisms.

I have looked at them and I see them, mechanically, as the ancestors a few generations back when lycanthropes were in the process of intentionally weakening their bloodline to survive. Shifters, as per the site, would be the great-grandchildren of skinshifters from Paizo. In particular, the _eventual_ ability to infect others is still available to skinshifters at very high levels. Regular shifters never get that ability and that is why they survived the Silver Purge.

Address is
here

Minor update to the Impure Prince to allow slayers hunting aberrations to qualify and benefit from the class.

It looks like the cost for the Armbow is too low (5750gp). The original was 20,000gp. At bare minimum it's a +2 weapon with an additional bonus (so likely at least a +3 weapon)

Also the bonus feats for Artificer are different from the description to the Table Summary (at 2nd and every 4 levels in the description; 2nd and every 2 levels in the Table).

I'll let you know if I find anything else.

Eep and double eep.

Thanks for the catches. The description is correct. The Table had a copy and paste error. Likewse, the Armbow was missing a '2', so it should have been 25,750 gp price and construction of 12,825 gp. Both have been corrected.

An incredible amount of work has obviously gone into this, and thus I tip my hat to Tzizimine for his hard work.

I do have a question about the Wand Mastery feat. It says one of it's prereqs is caster level 9th. The Artificer class has Wand Mastery listed as one of the bonus feats it can take but it needs to be able to qualify for it. As I understand, Artificers do not have a caster level because Infusions are not truly spells. Is it intended that Artificers qualify for the feat at 9th level?

Artificer do have a caster level, in same way that alchemists have caster levels. Infusions still use the caster level variable for determining the effects of the infusions (duration, range, etc.) The only difference is that infusions are not spells, just like extracts are not spells.

By the way, DSP released the mythic psionics material recently, thought it would be of some interest.

Oh I know. I'm one of the backers on the Kickstarter. As soon as the actual book is in my hands (soooooon... mwahaha), the more the site will be updated.

@RedRobe

The page with Deities is here

My conversion for Kol Korran's Domains (and Subdomains) are:

Charm (Love), Earth (Metal), Law (Inevitable), Nobility (Leadership), Travel (Trade)

A few minor tweaks and a change to human favored class option for artificers. Also, I have been working through a PCGen homebrew data set for the sight (still very early alpha). Anyone have an experience / interest in PCGen?

Exactly. I also have to believe that modern day sword smiths in the real word have learned to correct mistakes or take advantage of techniques that were unknown to medieval smiths. To compare what a smith from today can accomplish to one from the 1500's takes as much adjustment as comparing a modern day smith from our world to a smith from a fantasy world.

You can't Take 20 on Craft checks.

Not normally, no. But if PCs look hard enough, they will find a way.

While I agreed with Myrryr that no blacksmith took a month to make a sword, assuming he was starting with a block of metal in roughly the same shape and size as the sword, neither version of the craft rules assume that is where you are starting. The process starts with either 1/3 of the final value (old version) or 1/4 (new version).

Looking at a real world wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_swordsmithing - and, yes real world doesn't always line up with RPG, but starting with iron ore and charcoal, it takes weeks with the use of assistants.

Assuming a masterwork katana (final price 350 gp) which would normally be Complex (DC 20), but masterwork makes it Intricate (DC 25), that would be 8 gp per day assuming you just made the check exactly at the DC, so 43.75 days (measured at 8 hours per day). If you have enough assistants and other modifiers to get a result of 30, then it would be 16 gp / day or 21.875 days (or 525 hours).

While an adamantine katana would be 3,050, it would also be far more difficult to forge (i.e. Very Intricate, DC 30), but the progression per day would be the same if you get the same result of 30 (i.e. 16 gp / day so about 190 days assuming you don't manage to get a result of 35 or more).

As I mentioned before, when you factor in the special materials, that is where the crafting math shifts. An adamantine katana must start with 762 gp worth of raw materials (1/4 of 3,050 gp). But lets say you you decide on getting some "Easily Worked Adamantine" from the special materials.

1 lb of easily worked adamantine costs 600 gp out of pocket, but counts as 300 gp for the purposes of meeting the 762 gp initial material cost. NOTE: no where does it say that you have to meet the weight of the item you are making, only the initial material cost.

So you spend 1,524 gp to start with easily worked adamantine (i.e. one half the construction cost) and your progress per day is doubled, thus, instead of the 190 days, it would be 95 days.

(Side Note, I honestly don't know why they didn't just assign cost multipliers to these material qualities. It would have saved space)

The progress with the old system was DC x Die result in cp per day. So DC 25 times Take 10 result of 25 is 625 cp per day or 6.25 gp per day. If you could take 20 for result of 35, then 35 x 25 or 875 cp or 8.75 gp per day.

In the new system, swords are Normal complexity (DC 15) with a flat rate of 2 gp per day. With the Take 10 result of 25, you beat the DC by 10, so triple the progress to 6 gp per day. If you could take 20, for 35, beating the DC by 20, so 5 times the progress at 10 gp per day.

But, that's with regular steel. Adamantine weapons increase the complexity by 2 steps to Intricate, so DC 25 and flat 8 gp per day. Taking 10 would meet the DC 25 on the spot for 8 gp per day, but take 20 would triple it to 24 gp per day.

So, the new process is a bit faster for simple expensive items like Adamantine swords, but is a lot faster for complex items regardless of cost, like clocks and guns.

(then add special raw materials but that's another layer of math)

Two questions: Can we get confirmation that the Rogue's Edge ability only counts for a specific subset of Artistry, Craft, Knowledge or Profession? I assume so, but just checking.

Can someone clarify how the Rank 5 skill unlock for Craft is supposed to work with the new crafting rules? If examples are needed, assume human rogue 6, Int 16, 6 ranks in craft (traps), masterwork craft (traps) tools, but no feat, trait, magical item etc relating crafting.

Thanks.

You are correct that marks would be lost. Hence the title of RENEGADE Mastermaker. House Cannith shuns those that follow this prestige class because it costs the continuation of the bloodline.

No prob

I have gone back to the Renegade Mastermaker. The Mighty Arms benefit does not apply to all multiple implants, but can be divided among multiple Mighty Arm implants if you have them.

As for the capstone ability, given that to qualify for it, you need to be a non-warforged with a spellcasting class that significantly helps warforged, I didn't want to go much bigger than the race change. However, I can see your point about it being a weak capstone, particularly if you spent a bunch of GP on construcy implants only to have them be significantly less useful once you were a warforged. Thus, I have added a bonus feat, after the race recalculation is done, and the option to get a free recycle of construct implants if desired.

Let me know what you think.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the typos.

tzizimine wrote:

But the creation of Mighty Arms requires Craft Implants (Constructs) which has a talismanic cost of harvesting the body part. So, yes, that part is still there, harvesting and 25% price.

Thanks for the quick response and for considering my questions, tho theres a bit I'm still unsure on.

In regards to the implant question, I know needing a donor is true for almost all cases, but I'm confused by the text in the Cost section of the implants page.
"Cost

[Explains how normal cost is derived and the donor requirement]. The only exception is certain undead, deathless and construct implants. Assuming the donor material is appropriate, these types of implants can be made with both the appropriate Craft Implant feat and either the appropriate spells and, in the case of construct implants, the Craft Construct feat. The construction cost for implants made in this fashion is the normal half of the base price because the donor material [is] new and not 'seasoned' with experiences. The creator does not have [to] spend the money to create an entire new creature, but does have to pay for any material components that would normally be used in the effects to create the creature. All of the construction costs listed are assumed that the effort was made to track down and capture a donor, not create one from scratch."

To me this sounds as if paying 50% of the base cost plus spell material components allows the crafting of implants without the capture & harvesting process. Maybe also in the case of a construct implant, the body material cost of the construct who's legs or w/e is being made is also needed (e.g. Clockwork Soldier - 1000gp's worth of clockwork pieces), as the text just says 'material components' without specifying spells but I'm really not sure on that.

If I am wrong and you have to go whole hog and harvest from an existing construct or go and build...

Ah, I see what you mean. With deathless and construct implants, it is possible to create the implant without harvesting. The 50% of the base cost is factored from price of the implant, like a normal magical item. The material components mentioned refer to whatever spells are needed to create the creature that the implant would normally be harvested from.

Example: Some artificer wanted to create Adamantine Skin. One way would be to track down, immobilize and remove the skin from a metal construct that has damage reduction overcome by adamantine. That would be the 25% & harvest method, costing 27,750 gp, but would require finding a iron golem or something similar and not just killing it, but subduing it for a long time.

Plan B would be to create just tye skin, which requires the Craft Construct feat. The artificer would then need to decide on the cheapest metal construct with DR X / adamantine that he would make. While the list of constructs is long, we know that stone golem won't work because it is made of stone, not metal. We know the clockwork servant won't either because it lacks DR X / adamantine. But thr clockwork soldier does work because it has both. The cost for doing it this way would be the 50% of the price, so 55,500 gp, plus the cost of Geas/Quest and Heroism since they are what is required to make a Clockwork Soldier.

I hope that helps and yes, knowing which constructs are available in a campaign world does change the total cost of those additional spells. If clockwork soldiers don't exist, then something else more costly would be needed.

As many have said I'm very thankful of all your work, so much fun and interesting stuff in Eberron.

I do have a critique/question though. The Renegade Mastermaker was one of my favorite things from Eberron and I think your use of the implants rules from the Tech Guide is great for allowing people to choose what tech the put in themselves. However the capstone ability seems a bit weaker and/or restrictive than the original. Comparing it to the original you loose both your racial traits and a free warforged feat and instead gain the warforged racial traits instead. Which if I'm reading it all right amounts to just 'Construct Mind' and Natural Plating once you discount what they gain from the living construct type.

It's possible the original way was to strong, I'm just not to good at judging that sort of thing. It's just after I saw the art done for that PrC, I just enjoyed the balance of sitting more in the area of 'cyborg of the original race' rather than a warforged with a curious shape and left over fleshy bits.

EDIT: Ah forget to ask about some things. If a character takes the "mighty arm" implant twice I assume the "Improved Battle Fist" feature of RMm only applies to one of them (chosen when you gain the ability, if you have two at that point). If so it might be worth clarifying that to prevent shenanigans.

Also I'm unclear on if making an implant from scratch (paying 50% its cost instead of 25%) means that you don't have to go and cut bits out of someone else. I know its kind of a stupid question but the way it's worded in the implants section was a little fuzzy on that point.

As for the class balance and capstone ability, I will need to double check the math and get back to you. Same for the bonus to multiple Mighty Arms. But the creation of Mighty Arms requires Craft Implants (Constructs) which has a talismanic cost of harvesting the body part. So, yes, that part is still there, harvesting and 25% price.

It seems that the changes you have made to the artificiers enables them to cast any spell a full caster of two levels lower could cast at the drop of a hat and without any meaningful expenditure of resources. That seems grossly unbalanced to me.

If you're referring to the Charge Storing ability, I would point out threr things. First, it requires a significant amount of ingeniuty points, which has a limited pool size and is used for a number of effects, so while the artificer could mimic any one effect, he isn't able to do it as often as full spellcasters. Second, you have to charge the item with on action and release it with another. It isn't until 9th level that an artificer can do this in the same round. Lastly, while not a huge limiter, the artificer does need to have the minimum ranks in the appropriate knowledge skill.

My beta test has a artificer in it and so far, it has provided some useful solutions, but the sorcerer and the cleric still out-cast him for damage and combat effectiveness.

But, if you have detailed examples otherwise, please let me know.

Extremely useful, been using it for quite some time!

By any chance would you have all of this in a downloadable form? Over the years I've seen resources I still wanted to use go offline, so bit of a hoarder habit, I like to download backups just in case.

At this point, there is no offline version, mostly because it is still a work in progress. When I am satisifed that nothing more could be added for a long time, then perhaps a word document version or a pdf, maybe.

Thanks, AnivarG,

The Races of Eberron is included in the conversion list, although a lot of that material had to be readjusted to Pathfinder, but it is in there.

Evening everyone,

The symbionts have been redesigned and priced more appropriately to fit with the magic items that they duplicate. I have also detailed the process for designing your own symbionts, based very much on the intelligent magical item creation rules.

At this point, I am going to concentrate on more of the site specific to the campaign I am planning, but if anyone has ideas or questions, feel free to post them.

Happy Gaming

Dan

Implants have been revisited using the mechanics presented in the Technology Guide. Next: Symbionts...

@Zavas, I would be interested in looking at it, but the only thing that jumped out at me with a quick glance was a difference in the spell list and the Spell Mastery ability, which for an NPC class is largely inconsequential. Did you do anything significantly different?

Zavas,

I haven't planned on doing a magewright conversion, but only because it hasn't come up much in my campaigns. Maybe once I am done going over the implants and symbionts, I might revisit that part.

As for the site template, it was loosely modeled after the d20pfsrd.com site but a lot of the pages, I had to write up my own templates, so it was really done by hand in a lot of places.

Thanks again and feel free to report any mistakes or recommendations.

Dan

tzizimine wrote:

That's good to know. If that's the case, where would be a good place to look for rules for missing limbs? For some reason Skull & Shackles comes to mind?

There's rules there. I believe Ultimate Combat has more in-depth rules.

One more related question (the only one I hope)...

Do implants suffer any sort of limitation or loss of function during a polymorph / transmutation / shape change / etc? i.e. could a druid with an implanted weapon still use the weapon in a different form (with possibly separate answers for humanoid and non-humanoid form)?

That's good to know. If that's the case, where would be a good place to look for rules for missing limbs? For some reason Skull & Shackles comes to mind?

Hoping this is a good place to post this question.

If a character, who was perfectly intact prior to this, decides to get a cybernetic arm then later decides he doesn't want it anymore (or it was forcefully taken, etc.), is that character now missing an arm?

It does say that it completely replaces the arm from shoulder to the hand, but am I correct in assuming that if he decides to get rid of the cybernetic arm (like balancing his total Implantation Value against suddenly dealing with a lot of Con damage from a bad poison), his original arm does not instantly grow back?

Thanks in advance.

Dan

Alright everyone, I have some pretty significant changes to the artificer class. Most notably, I have re-ordered some of the class features (as per Dexray's info) and added two new lines of class features to fill in a number of the dead levels that existed at the higher end of play, including a new mechanic called ingenuity (a pool used to augment or suppress magic items).

Please review and let me know if you have questions.

Happy gaming,

Dan

Holiday greetings, everyone.

The site has been updated with new alternate racial traits for the Eberron races. This included a recommendation made by a few different people to have the different Body Feats redesigned as alternate racial traits.

This, in turn, changed some of the prerequisites for other warforged feats and the warforged juggernaut

Next up, classes...

Happy gaming

Question about the Nameless Assassins Event...

Am I missing something or is the combat tactics for this event trying to imply that the assassins are going to use their death attacks via their heavy repeating crossbows? As I understand the assassin death attack, it's melee attack only.

Any thoughts / comments / etc would be helpful.

Sorry for the abscence. Work has been more work-like than usual. As for races, Eberron has always been a place where just about anything can exist, so no reason why mixed races wouldn't either. The question becomes for of what does a new mixed race bring to the table that the parent races do not. I don't plan on bringing any races to the site but have fun with whatever ideas you do have.

I partially agree, but I prefer to use the alignment scale system from Ultimate Campaign. In addition giving the moral flexibility suitable for Eberron, it resolves the question of what happens when an alignment effect hits an unaligned creature.

Greetings all, I'm back and getting ready to go back and rework parts of the site. In particular, the artificer is getting a full review with the information from the advanced class guide, reviewing the rules for implants from the technology guide, add a few alternate racial abilities and syncing the new spells and feats from the stuff published this year.

Once I'm am done fitting the new material from Paizo,then I will start considering brand new material. If there is anything anyone wants to suggest, feel free to mention it.

Happy gaming.

Dan

I want to thank everyone for their input so far. I am getting married today so I will not monitoring this thread for a few weeks, but when I get back, I plan on a massive site review to incorporate some of the new stuff that Paizo has released. See you all then.

And happy gaming

Daniel "Tzizimine" Clarke

Here's my feedback:

- I think artificers' infusion knowledge should be changed to mirror an Alchemist's formula book. I know this is a change from the source material, but I generally despise classes where every character has the exact same spell list. :-)

- The various Warforged Body feats would be better handled as Alternate Racial Traits than feats. Either that or they should be buffed up slightly, and in my opinion, the "1st level only" requirement should be removed.

-Speaking of which, Alternate Racial Traits for all the Eberron races would be nice. The conversion here: http://pf-eberron.wikidot.com/ might provide some inspiration. The various Gearforged traits from Kobald Press' Midgard setting might too, for warforged.

- Every Paizo published race with a charisma penalty has at least one sorcerer bloodline that they get a bonus to, to cancel it out. Alas, there is no official bloodline that would be appropriate for shifters and warforged. The Protean bloodline almost fits for shifters, but not quite.

- Per "Races of Eberron", 3.5 changelings could switch sex or be functional hermaphrodites with no problem, but yours can't. Was this a deliberate change?

Chaoticnipple, allow me to respond inthe reverse order.

1. The alteration to changelings was deliberate, but the basis was mostly that only changelings born female have internal organs necessary to give birth. Much the same way a dwarf has Darkvision or a Gillman can breathe under water, only one gender can give birth. That said, I haven't seen a reason to review it until now.

2. Not to say that warforged and shifters don't deserve some sort of bloodline help, but between the lack of any appropriate bloodlines and the precedent set by the duergar dwarves for having a Charisma penalty and no bloodlone help, that isn't likely to change anytime soon.

3 and 4. Given the lack of alternate racial abilities for the other uncommon races and the lack of supporting material from 3.5, this isn't likely to change. As for the 1st level only feats, that was deliberate to prevent the munckinizing of the Adamantine Body and the Psi-forged body feats. If alternate racial abilities get introduced later, it will likely involve removing the body feats and replacing them with less powerful versions. That combined with the requirements for the Warforged Juggernaut, the entire process would require an exponential review. Sorry.

5. The infusion list was one of things about the artificer class that will probably get changed with help from the Advanced Class Guide. I agree that being a spontaneous caster with knowing all possible spells (or equivalent) was a step away from typical class design. I felt that keeping the infusion list very narrow, the balance factor would play out in the end. From Dexray's posts, it seemed like it did, but in some ways, the infusions did surpringly little to help. I will keep this thread posted as I start re-reviewing it this fall.

Thanks for the input and happy gaming,

Tziz

Sure, that's something one might consider, and I absolutely salute you for being so respectful to the original material. But I think even if you did that with the Artificer, what's the worst that can happen? So far you have done an outstanding job integrating the new into the old, so there's nothing to worry (from my side of the screen anyway), and how many people are going to play and experience a 20th level Artificer? Realistically?

Funny you mention that. The original inspiration for the conversion is because I ran a 3.5 game to 20th just before our group shifted to Pathfinder. Once the epic rules were released for Pathfinder, which caught me off guard being mythic, I started the conversion to Pathfinder to continue with 20th level/ 1st tier and continuing to 10th tier, fighting the Lord of blades and his army, Lady Vol in her castle and eventually taking the fight to the Inspired with the goal of reversing what turned Dal Quor into the plane of nightmares. Right now, I'm waiting for the mythic psionic rules from Dreamscarred Press since two of the PCs are psionic (psion and soulknife/illuminated soul/Warmind). The others include a barbarian, a transmuter, a wizard/eldritch knight and an artificer, so the 20th capstone ability will be important to this campaign.

I haven't picked up my copy yet. The local gaming store around here closed earlier this summer and it's an hour drive to the next closest one, so I might have it by the weekend.

I agree with Puna'chong that there will probably be a quite bit of use, but in particular, the artificer needs a 20th level capstone ability but doing so officially opens the doors to adding all new material as the original class didn't have one or anything close to it.

I kept the conversion as true to the published material from 3.5 edition as possible. While I did have _some_ artistic license with it (for example having warforged Medium and Small sizes), the site is not for the introduction of new material (at least not yet).

As for Warforged racial builds, I don't plan on giving them the flexible attribute as they were never designed that way. A lot of the Warforged Body feats were chucked, but a few remained. As for the different Cannith designs, that is true, but my interpretation was the difference between Medium and Small size and the difference of the body (basic metal, basic wood, adamantine or psicrystal)

Actually, that is pretty much spot on from the Faiths of Eberron book. The rank and file of the Blood of Vol often have no idea about the dealings of the higher echelons of the faith.

tzizimine wrote:

Bummer to hear that, Dexray.

I will probably want to pick your brain later this summer once the new class guide comes out. The artificer in my group is noticing a bit of a power / action economy / effectiveness issue compared to the sorcerer and the cleric in the group. That coupled by the lack of a 20th capstone ability means that the artificer is probably going to a thorough review come fall time.

Separate question, how much of the other material from my site did your group use? Any typos / house rules / questions / etc?

Thanks again

We used the artficer, artificier related feats, infustion list (only the standard infusions from eberron campaing book). Homuniculi Monsters and prestige classes but as most time nobody want one.

I think the artificer isnt a combat class. But if you know your enemy and have time to prepare there is no better class.

Agreed, the artificer is not a combat class. It was always a puzzle-solver class. Once the Advanced Class Guide is released, we'll see if that changes.

Unofficially, I suspect Mr. Baker has high hopes and probably for good reason. That said, if there is 5th ed material for Eberron, my site will not be converting any of it unless someone wants to buy me the books.

Bummer to hear that, Dexray.

I will probably want to pick your brain later this summer once the new class guide comes out. The artificer in my group is noticing a bit of a power / action economy / effectiveness issue compared to the sorcerer and the cleric in the group. That coupled by the lack of a 20th capstone ability means that the artificer is probably going to a thorough review come fall time.

Separate question, how much of the other material from my site did your group use? Any typos / house rules / questions / etc?

Thanks again