This is an exemplary guide to the zen archer monk archetype. I’m not praising my own work: what I mean is that I’m going to present a zen archer as an example, then put him through some high level challenges to show how the class runs and where it ends up. After the fights there’s some discussion and a guide, but I’m going to lead with examples to illustrate the way the zen archer works in play. That’s the plan: on with the show.
One would be a zen archer. Rain and shine since childhood, One has sat at the grotty feet of Ichi, his flea-ridden, novelty-bearded sensei, studying the way of the bow. He’s a slow learner, this One - but now, at last, he’s ready to go forth and bring monastic law (and monastic fleas) to the world.
Many escapades and 19 levels later, One will be ennobled as Lord Ghostslayer and given stewardship of the Nine Kingdoms he calls home...but not yet, not yet. For the moment One is a 1st level human Zen Archer Qinggong monk, built with 20-point buy, and he looks like this:
Traits: Exile, Resilient
Feats:
1st: Toughness
Human: Improved Initiative
Monk 1st: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1st: Perfect Strike (bow, special)
Monk 1st: Precise Shot
The Way of One:
* Bow Flurry: no flurry with any other weapon
* Perfect Strike: 1/day, once/round, as part of attack; roll two d20s for one bow attack, with the discard as confirmation if the first threatens
The Way of One:
* Bow Flurry: no flurry with any other weapon
* Perfect Strike: 6/day, once/round, as part of attack; roll two d20s for one bow attack, with the discard as confirmation if the first threatens:
* Zen Archery: One uses Wisdom to determine ranged attacks
* Vows of Cleanliness and Truth: no lies, must remain clean, +2 ki
* Ki Pool: 11/day swift and one round unless stated:
1= (i) extra bow flurry [one attack], (ii) +50’ bow increment, (iii) +4 dodge armour,
(iv) unarmed bow damage, (v) +20 speed or jump, (vi) +3 barkskin [stnd, 60 mins]
* Grasshopper: +6 jump, with constant running start
Str 18 (24), Dex 18 (24), Con 14 (20), Int 7 (9), Wis 28 (34), Cha 7
Initiative +13
Perception +41, Darkvision
Hit Points 233
Armour Class 53, touch 40, flatfooted 46 (class 17, arm 8, dex 7, def 5, nat 5, ins 1)
CMD 67 (base 30, class 17, dex 7, str 7, def 5, ins 1)
Fort +24, Ref +27, Will +30; +2 magic & poison; evasion
Spell Resistance 30, Damage Resistance 10/Chaotic
Speed 90, fly 40
Base Attack +15, Base Flurry +20
CMB +22
Fist +22/+17/+12 (2d10+7, 1d6 energy, cold iron, magic, lawful, adamantine)
Fist vital strike +22 (2d10+7, 4d10, and ditto)
1. Bow deadly +32/+27/+22 (1d8+24, +1 per previous hit/19-20x3, 1d6 nonlethal, nonprovoking, threaten 5’, ignore less than total concealment/cover, all DR bar Epic, ki focus, -1 attack and damage beyond 30’)
2. Bow ki deadly vital strike +32 (2d10+24/19-20x3, 4d10, and as 1)
3: Bow deadly flurry +33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18 (1d8+28, and as 1)
4: Bow ki deadly flurry +33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18 (2d10+28, and as 1)
5: Bow ki deadly flurry haste +34/+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24/+19 (2d10+28, and as 1)
The Way of One:
* Bow Flurry: no flurry with any other weapon
* Perfect Strike: 20/day, once/round, as part of attack; roll three d20s for one bow attack, with a discard as confirmation if the first threatens
* Zen Archery: Wisdom determines ranged attacks
* Mantis Style: swift, combat duration, +2 stunning DC. One bonus stun/day
* Vows of Cleanliness, Fasting and Truth: no lies, no potions, must remain clean, +11 ki
* Ki Pool: 33/day, swift, self only and one round unless stated:
1= (i) extra bow flurry [one attack], (ii) +50’ bow increment, (iii) +4 dodge armour, (iv) unarmed bow damage, (v) +20 speed or jump, (vi) +5 barkskin [standard, 200 min]
2 = (i) bow ignores total concealment, (ii) restoration [standard], (iii) dimension door 1200’ [move]
3 = (i) bow ignores total cover [shoot round corners], (ii) etherealness [move, 1 min], (iii) shadow walk [standard, 20 hours, self and 20 passengers, DC28w]
* Grasshopper: +20 jump with constant running start
* Reflexive Shot: One makes (and by default does not incur) bow opportunity attacks
* Stunning Fist (Ex): 21/day, once/round, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc34/36w, stun
* Diamond Soul: Spell Resistance 30
* Quivering Palm (Su): 1x/day, as part of unarmed or bow attack: dc32w, death * Ki Bow: any arrow One fires becomes a Ki Focus weapon
* Hammer the Gap (Ex): cumulative +1 damage/previous hit uninterrupted by misses in a round; this damage is critiplied
* Perfect Self: immune to spells targetting humanoids. DR10/Chaotic
Encumbrance (light 266lb): 67lb with broom. Encumbrance for broom (light 200lb): 194lb
At this point One is ready to undertake the Trial of Beastmass , in which he must single-handedly defeat the seven toughest creatures fully detailed in the Bestiary, and do it within two days - that is, with only one rest. Uncommon resilience, extreme offensiveness and a dash of versatility - these are the qualities Beastmass requires. Can the Trial be overcome? Why would One even try? Well, he probably gets a Blue Peter badge or something (please excuse the in-joke for British readers). Anyway, some brief pre-match analysis, also known as ‘bits readers might disagree with’:
Spoiler:
Perfect Stun : at 1st level One gains Perfect Strike, which ‘replaces Stunning Fist.’ At 11th level he qualifies for Stunning Fist and takes it. Now, monks get beefed-up versions of various feats, and Stunning Fist is a case in point. Monkhood gives extra stuns as well as an assortment of alternative effects, from fatigue to paralysis. When a zen archer monk takes the feat, does he treat it as a beefy monk feat - does he gain a use per level and the alternative effects?
It’s worth noting that the official online site links Perfect Strike’s replacement of Stunning Fist to the feat, not the class ability. This seems to suggest that zen archers have dormant beef-up class potential, which becomes active when the feat is taken. I’m going to make a judgement call here, though: I think the intention is that One gains a stun per level (as per the feat description) but not the alternate effects (as per the class text). This means that, when he eventually gains Ki Focus Bow, One can shoot stunning arrows but not paralysing ones. Do mark this guide for faq if you think this is a point worth clarifying.
Ki Arrows : at 17th level One gains Ki Focus Bow, and treats ‘all arrows fired from his bow as if they were ki focus weapons, allowing him to use his special ki attacks as if his arrows were unarmed attacks.’
What is a special ki attack? The ki focus weapon quality gives a list, which ‘includes’ ki strike, Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist - but it doesn’t give a definition. This is a shame, because the new material gives us various feats that look like they might well be ki attacks, too. The use of ‘include’ does seem to leave room for additions, but it’s impossible to be sure. For example, several monk archetypes get a beefed-up feat as a straight replacement for Stunning Fist - are these ki attacks? Elemental Fist and Touch of Serenity both look likely candidates. Then too, Ultimate Magic describes ki powers in its treatment of the qinggong archetype - is an offensive ki power a ki attack?
Again I’m going to make a judgement call here for the time being: I reckon the Stunning Fist substitute feats are ki attacks, because they replace a ki attack class ability. To avoid greyzoneness, though, I’m not going to use either Elemental Fist or Touch of Serenity in One’s build. Again, mark this guide for faq if you think a definition of kit attacks would be nice to have.
Deadly Aim : on 07/08/11 Pathfinder released an errata to the effect that, when a monk uses Combat Expertise or Power Attack with flurry, he ‘uses his improved flurrying BAB to determine the effect of these feats.’ This applies equally to Deadly Aim. I’m incorporating this, although it’s worth noting that (a) it’s not a huge change (-2 attack/+4 damage at 20th), (b) it’s not necessarily advantageous to a monk, who doesn’t have attack bonusses out of the wahooly, and (c) it doesn’t change the outcome of any of the Beastmass fights. (I’ll also note that I think this is good errata, but that it’s liable to confuse people, since the monk’s flurrying base attack - +1 per level - isn’t laid out plainly on the monk’s class table, which is where many people will look for it. It would be good if this were made clearer in future printings or versions).
Zen Vows : at 5th level One takes the vows of cleanliness and truth; at 15th level he adds the vow of fasting (‘a monk can take a vow at any level’). Can a zen archer have these? ‘A monk who takes a vow never gains the Still Mind class feature’: zen archers never gain it in the first place. Note, though, that the wording doesn’t say you have to have Still Mind to swap out, and in fact this is careful writing, because ‘any user of ki’ can take a vow - and other users, like the ninja, don’t have Still Mind either. So the zen archer falls into the same category as a ninja here; he doesn’t have Still Mind, and thus has nothing to lose when he avows himself.
Gear : One has a vest of armour , since Pathfinder has no magic slot flavour restrictions: a robe, shirt or vest would fit the bill anyway. This allows him greater bracers of archery . He still misses out on armour and shield slots, of course. He also stacks up some secondary enchantments on their traditional slots, but he pays the 150% secondary rates.
More controversially (in duel terms), One wears two rings of counterspells with greater dispels in them. PCs need magic items, beasts don’t, and at these levels, against at-will greater dispels , item nerf protection is mandatory. He pays for both the rings and spells as normal, of course, and the counterspells are gone for good when they’re expended.
Qinggongness : In place of infinite Slow Fall, One takes barkskin for 1 ki; it lasts 3 hours 20 minutes a pop and gives a +5 natural armour enhancement. By default he simply uses this three times a day at noncombat intervals. He starts off 3 ki down each day to reflect this. He also has restoration (2 ki) in place of Wholeness of Body from 8th, and shadow walk (3 ki) in place of Timeless Body from 17th, though these don’t play much significance in the Trial.
Skills : it won’t matter in the Trial, but I’ll just note here that items built on fly/overland flight give nice bonusses to the Fly skill, just as the spells do, though the items routinely forget to mention half the goodness. One’s broom of flying gives +8 (+4 for half caster level, +4 for good maneuverability). You have a maneuverability, it’s good, you get the bonus.
Fight Rules : no one flees for good - the pride of monkdom and the Bestiary are at stake. Single d20s always result in 10, multiple d20s (like full attacks) go 10-11-9, 10-9-11, and repeat. Threats kick in when the percentages from hits (not misses) build up to 60% within or over rounds (eg. 12 basic /20x2 hits would offer one threat and confirmation). Strictly mathematically speaking, multiple 20x2 threats don’t produce exact 5% threat chances, apparently, but for a game guide I reckon a flat 5% per pip will do. If there’s a decisive close call I’ll flag it. Rough but simple...
Or nearly so. One has Hammer the Gap, which adds a cumulative +1 damage to hits on a successful run of shots. This damage is critiplied, which means he does more damage on a critical if it occurs later on in his flurry routine. To keep this fair (and conservative), I’m going to add the following rider: if One crits during a full attack, it occurs on the first shot if he hits once or twice, the second shot if he hits three/four times, the third shot if he hits five/six times, and the fourth shot if he hits with seven or all eight attacks.
One’s Attacks : it’ll save time to deconstruct these now. Throughout the trial, One either flurries with his bow or shoots as a standard action. He always uses Deadly Aim, and he has his merciful bow set to nonlethal by default.
On the default flurry he activates his boots for haste (free action), spends 1 ki on unarmed arrow damage (swift action), uses Perfect Strike - which gives a 30% threat chance on one shot (actually 29.95%, apparently) - and attaches up to two Su or Ex abilities to the best shots - Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist. This is bow attack option no.5 on the 20th level sheet above. If he thinks stunning is better than raw damage he activates Mantis Style on his first turn, which takes up his swift action and so prohibits unarmed damage that round.
If he’s limited to a standard shot, by default One uses Pinpoint Targetting, Improved Vital Strike, Perfect Strike, Quivering Palm (subsequently Stunning Fist), and spends one ki point again for unarmed damage. He doesn’t bother activating the boots on single shots. Mantis Style is again an option, if he has reason to prefer stunning to damage. Pinpoint Targetting means he can’t move in the same round, so he has to forgo it now and then. Pinpoint Targetting and the vital strike work together because the first is a standard attack action, and the second can be tagged on ‘when you use the attack action’ (which is to say, a standard action used for an attack). If they were both standard actions they wouldn’t combine, but as written they do. This is bow option no.2 on the 20th level zen archer above. Okay, buckle up, here we go.
On the First Day of Beastmass (Dawn): One vs the Shoggoth
Spoiler:
Perturbed by the trials ahead, One leaves bright and early to see a smart friend, a merman monk - but One is hardly smart himself, being minmaxed, and gets his days mixed up, departing on the first day of Beastmass itself. He’s cruising along through the sunbeamy sea on his trusty broom, taking nips of air from his bottle every four minutes, bow in hand, when he detects a disturbance in the currents and something vast hoves into view. Avast! It is the dread shoggoth, the first of One’s adversaries.
The ocean has 90’ visibility, and this is good for the shog (a nice charge distance) so we’ll use it as the start point. Everyone has smashing Perception, no one is surprised. The shog has +11 Initiative, but One goes first. Also the ocean is studded with tiny harmless jellyfish just where the fight occurs, so everything has normal concealment beyond 20’, which the shog ignores through tremorsense... though in fact One does too, courtesy of Improved Precise Shot. Also, One is half out of air when the fight kicks off: he has 20 rounds, and loses an extra round each time he attacks. The shoggoth is only a CR19, so we’re trying to stack some chips in its favour here.
Ding-ding, round one: One doesn’t shoot, because the water imposes a minus 34 penalty on ranged attacks - bummer. He does ready his pinpoint vital shot when the ooze comes within 5’.
Shog’s turn: it begins its Maddening Cacophony (free action), and charges 90’, trampling. One saves against the cacophony (on a 2), saves against the trample (on a 9) and evades. Is he engulfed? No, because he isn’t trampled - and even if he was (it’s a close save, after all) the shog would need to make a grapple check (as if Swallowing Whole), for which it requires a natural 20. In the meantime One’s readied shot goes off: it hits on a 2 and does 50 nonlethal after DR (oozes aren’t immune to nonlethal). The shoggoth is on 283 hp but immediately heals to 293hp (it’s only nonlethal damage, of course, but the distinction is irrelevant here). One acts immediately before it next round.
Round two: One goes for the Full Monty flurry, haste and all. He hits seven times for 248 nonlethal damage after typeless DR. The shoggoth is immune to the Quivering Palm, the stun and the criticals that One would normally threaten, but it’s on 45hp. What else does it have up its soggy sleeve?
Not enough. The shoggoth fast-heals 10 hp again, but the truth is it can’t hurt the monk. It needs natural 20s to slam or succeed on maneuvers. One saves against the cacophony and saves and evades the trample: we could rule that he fails a save against the latter, since it’s borderline, but he can survive it and won’t be engulfed. The shog can’t flee in this fight and has no ranged ability. Engulf is its trump, and since it’s none too bright, it’s going to fast-heal and try that again. One reduces it to unconscious primeval sludge in 3 rounds (conservatively) and kills it stone dead with a few more rounds of unmerciful flurries thereafter. 6 ki (including the day’s natural armour) and 2 charges of the boots of speed used, and the Quivering Palm wasted, but job done!
On the First Day of Beastmass (Noon): One vs the Balor
Spoiler:
One falls unconscious and wakes to find himself on his damp broom, in a charred cavern, 10’ by 10’ and 100’ high, lit by guttering candles. As he explores there is a sound like the shrieking of flensed souls and the towering balor appears in midair before him! The combatants are 10’ apart, One wins initiative, but we’ll say the demon gets a surprise round, because I don’t want Beastmass to come down to initiative. The Balor is big on brains, so we’ll say he’s done his homework on One, too, and we’ll do it for him now.
The balor is a SMACC - a Spellcaster on a Mighty Awesome Combat Chassis. He’s pretty offensive toe-to-toe, but his real strengths are his spell-likes - implosion, fire storm, at-will greater dispel and dominate , quickened telekinesis , and the CR17 marilith he can summon. Boojah!
Actually, none of this is going to work on One and the balor knows it. The offensive spell-likes need 10s to go through One’s Spell Resistance (which equals success for the balor, per fight rules), but One then saves on a 2 against anything. Telekinesis fails against One’s AC, CMD and saves, and the marilith is a one-round road-bump - she can’t hit or grapple the monk barring natural 20s, and One’s flurry hits her seven times and crits once for 408 nonlethal damage, which doesn’t do wonders for her health.
Worse, the balor knows it can’t touch One physically. It too needs natural 20s to succeed on all maneuver checks (telekinetic or otherwise), and ditto on attack rolls. It needs consecutive natural 20s to slay One with its vorpal weapons. If One was a normal monk he might take fire damage when flurrying, but that’s someone else’s problem. The balor can’t bullrush One off the broom, or sunder his bow, or disarm it, or telekinese it, or get One in a grapple where he can’t shoot and gets burned. The balor can’t even quick-telekinese itself a tower shield out of some conveniently handy steel plate, because it happens to know that One can shoot around total cover for 3 ki a round.
So what can the demon do?
Plan A: targetted greater dispels at will against One’s gear (area dispels won’t work on items). Per fight rules it’ll succeed against One’s SR and will easily succeed on dispel checks against the bow, belt and headband (on a 7, 6 and 2), which it has identified as One’s key items. Unfortunately, the balor also knows that One wears two rings which will automatically counter its first two greater dispels , but still, this plan has merit. It’d be better if the balor could sunder the suppressed bow, but that won’t be an option... curses...
Plan B: if the balor can do 83 damage, it can use power word stun - no save - but it’s going to have the devil of a time doing that much damage.
Finally - Plan C - the balor can just make full attacks, hoping for vorpal strikes. It gets seven chances a round, but the likelihood of getting consecutive 20s is miniscule.
The balor goes for Plan A. The greater dispel bounces but one ring of counterspells is emptied. For pride’s sake, the demon uses quickened telekinesis to throw up a mass of cave rubble between One and itself, but the rubble is cover, not total cover, and the monk ignores it (Improved Precise Shot).
Round One, One’s turn: he flurries. He hits five times, critting once, for 306 nonlethal. The balor saves against the stun (on a 9) but has 64hp remaining, and is unconscious unless it can stop One shooting next round, which it can’t (it can’t flee, has no healing or buffing to make teleport a viable temporary retreat and it can’t hide from the perceptive monk). Next round it gets porcupined and, some ki-less-, haste-less flurries thereafter, explodes in a blinding flash of demonic fire, but One saves against it (on a 6) and evades. 7 ki and 3 haste used so far...
On the First Day of Beastmass (Dusk): One vs the Pit Fiend
Spoiler:
Again One passes out, but doesn’t wake to find himself free - he’s still in the cavern, though the candles have gone out and it appears altered when he explores, 60’ by 60’ by 60’. Maybe this is a different hellhole?
Anyway, bummer. He could turn ethereal or (possibly) shadow walk his way out of here, but instead he waits for his next Beastmass beast, meditating on his ioun torches . Suddenly a gate opens, its hinges weeping blood, and the indomitable force that is the pit fiend steps into the darkness. The combatants are 50’ apart, One has darkvision, but the devil wins initiative for real.
Round One: the fiend may be the smartest beast in the Bestiary, so we’ll give it advanced knowledge.
Like the balor, the pit fiend is a SMACC. Its combat chassis is less offensive but better defensively, and its spellcasting is superior - it has wish . It can also summon a CR16 horned devil, but it has no silver bullets that’ll shoot down zen archers. For starters, the fiend is (surprisingly) only Caster Level 18, and so needs a 12 to overcome One’s Spell Resistance. It’ll fail that check under fight rules, but then One will make all his saves on 2s anyway. The horned devil won’t hit and will go down in a round (Perfect Strike gives seven hits, with one crit, for 408 nonlethal). The fiend has some touch spells ( scorching ray and the initial portion of meteor swarm ) but the ranged touch attacks fail against both SR and AC; and like the balor, the fiend needs natural 20s to hit One with melee attacks or maneuvers. Its poison, disease and constrict are useless. So what can it do?
Plan A: targetted dispels. It’s heard its demonic opposite tried this and failed, though. Damn those slightly cheesy rings! It could cast invisibility and a persistant image of itself to gain time, but the monk’s range mean the illusion will only buy off one bowshot, and the invisibility will fail as soon as the devil targets One’s attended items with a dispel.
Plan B: wish for the worst.
The fiend likes the second option. It wishes .
Our zen archer plays by the book (rings aside), so ditto the beasts (initiative aside): the devil can do anything on the normal wish list. Destruction will do 35 damage on a save, the humble true strike more next round if the fiend survives that long, since it could then Vital bite for 57 (after One’s DR is applied) - but a chunk of damage is no good if the devil can’t follow up. Summon monster viii is nothing but a round of unhelpful flanking. Waves of exhaustion? The monk’s SR will nerf it, and anyway, the fiend happens to know One has restoration ; besides, he’d still be able to use his bow at a flat -2 penalty. Wind wall? The monk will just run into it, or fly into it, or shoot up the apertures at the top or bottom of the cylinder...
(Point of law for zen archers to remember and mention in a non-confrontational manner if and when necessary: a wind wall has to be vertical. Not horizonal, not diagonal. The fiend could make it a cylinder or square, but not a cube or a cone. This means it can’t close off the top or bottom with arrow-negating wind. In the cave the bottom might be closed by rock, but there is likely a 10’ wide aperture at the top: were One up there, he’d be looking down a 90’ wind tunnel at the devil. For a 3rd level spell this is still a formidable obstacle to archers...but it’s not the 100% arrow-negator it’s sometimes presented as being.)
...But wait! The diabolical genius has a better plan - deeper darkness . As a devil it has See in Darkness. The monk may have darkvision, but he can only overcome supernatural darkness if he has daylight or the like - which he lacks - and despite appearances the pit fiend is horribly quiet (Stealth+28) and its spell-likes are silent. In deeper darkness it can throw quickened fireballs and get dispels off unseen while flying around. It can nerf One’s belt and for two rounds and he’ll be at -6 on all physical stats, which means -60 hp, -3 AC, saves and CMD, -2 bow attack and -3 damage; then it can take out his headband, for another -3 bow attack, Will, Perception and AC, and then ...
Muahaha. The ioun torches wink out: the entire cavern goes utterly black. The devil flies up 30’, using Stealth, and ends its surprise round with a quickened fireball for the hell of it, but One evades (on a 2). One gets a reactive Perception check as the devil moves, or perhaps as the fireball pellet whirrs towards him; either way, his result (51) beats the fiend’s Stealth result (46 with distance): he has pinpointed its squares.
Still Round One: One’s first turn. The fiend is 50’ away laterally and 30’ up. One can’t see it, but he knows the squares it occupies.
He flurries. He spends 2 ki to ignore the total concealment miss chance for one round (swift action) and hits five times (because of Perfect Strike), critting once, for 254 nonlethal damage - a reduced figure, because he lacks the swift action to gain unarmed arrow damage and is also beyond Point Blank Shot range. (Note that there’s no rule to stop him using ki twice a round - what he lacks here are two swift actions).
The fiend is down to 96 virtual hp, but it’s irrelevant, because One has Stunning Fist on the first arrow and the pit fiend needs a 16 to save. (It would need a 14 to beat Quivering Palm, were it available, though it wouldn’t die because its regeneration is still functioning this round). It’s stunned, with or without One’s Ability Focus or Mantis Style. He flurries again next round without hasting , rendering the fiend unconscious, then kills it with some hasteless, ki-less flurries, because his +5 bow overcomes Good DR. If you rule that he needs an actual Good weapon or spell to stop the regeneration, then he repeatedly coup-de-graces the unconscious form to a mulch of minus-whatever-you-like with his hundreds of arrows, eventually realises the regenerating gobbets need something more, pours holy water on the sizzling goujons, then flurries again. He’s used the boots of speed 4 out of 10 times, has used 5 of 20 Perfect Strikes, 5 of 21 Stunning Fists, and has expended 11 of 33 ki points.
On the First Day of Beastmass (Night): One vs the Tarn Linnorm
Spoiler:
At last One is transported away from the Charred Caverns. He finds himself on a mossy bank, with the moon sailing overhead and a dark mountain lake winking at his feet... quite charming, really. But wait, what’s this? Warship-sized ripples arrow none-too-stealthily towards him and, as he draws his bow, a mighty two-headed drake breaks the surface, sending arcs of spray moonwards: lo! It is the tarn linnorm, and it means business. Everyone ignores the low light on attack rolls, no one is surprised, and One goes first - but that’s going to be dull, so let’s give the linnorm a turn because of its sheer awesomeness.
Round one: the linnorm may be the only creature in the Bestiary bar the tarrasque that has a realistic hope of sticking a combat maneuver on the zen monk: on a 17 it can grapple him. It still needs natural 20s to hit him on melee attacks, though, so the grapple would be a standard action with a minimal chance of success - and anyway, the cunning-but-brutish linnorm believes it has better options. As a full round action it raises its twin heads and breathes two titanic overlapping cones of acid, for 44d8 damage, with 4d6 Strength damage to follow next round...except there’s a DC32 Reflex save against each breath weapon, and One makes them on 5s and evades them both.
One’s turn: he flurries. Five hits, one crit, for 306 nonlethal. The linnorn is on 79 virtual hp, but the opening arrows hit on 2s. The linnorm fails its Will save (it needs a 14), wouldn’t die if Quivering Palm were available (because it’s regenerating this round), but is stunned. One strikes it into unconsciousness next round without haste or a ki point and kills it soon thereafter, because his +5 bow overcomes cold iron DR, and so stops the beast regenerating (though you might rule he needs an actual cold iron weapon, in which case he eventually smacks the arrow-riddled drake with his knuckles). Its Curse of Death falls on One (DC29 Will) but he shrugs it off effortlessly, scratches at a monastic flea (their jump skills are most impressive) and settles down to supper. It’s only tofu, but he’s taken no damage all day so he rewards himself with an extra chunk.
On the Second Day of Beastmass (Dawn): One vs the Ancient Gold
Spoiler:
One wakes early and flies up to watch for trouble. He’s 100’ up on his broom, crosslegged, bow athwart his knees, when he perceives the dragon of dragons (well, at least of those fully detailed). The dawn skies are clear and our doughty archer isn’t caught unawares - he sees sun glancing off the gargantuan shining drake at 640’ (maximum sight distance 840’, the average for plains), and at that distance the gold perceives him only on a 20. For the first time we have a favourable surprise situation - though in actual play, in open settings, a hyper-perceptive zen archer can expect these fairly often. One even has the luxury of standing and waiting a round before attacking.
Surprise Round: One single shots. Distance gives him a -10 penalty, but Pinpoint Targetting negates every shred of scaly armour the gold has. It goes from AC39 to AC5 and One hits on a 2 for 59 nonlethal damage. The gold saves against death, but the monk wins initiative.
Round 1: One single-shots again and this time he crits for 130. The dragon isn’t stunned and is on 188hp.
The ancient’s turn. It roars, contorts its vast sinuous coils, and heals to 338 virtual hp ( heal gets it back 150 hp a time; it can cast the spell up to a dozen times). Impudent human! Still, the dragon is smart and its Beastmass quarry is somewhat pricklier than it anticipated. Having healed it sensibly considers its options. Let’s go through it, since One is going to win and it’s going to be a long and repetitive fight. The salient points are;
A: One can always hit the gold. Even if it teleports away and buffs to AC51, the zen archer can use Pinpoint Targetting to take a shot a round against AC9, which he’ll make on a 2 at anywhere up to 640’; and he’ll crit with every other single shot, for 189 nonlethal every two rounds. If the dragon doesn’t buff but stays beyond Point Blank range, One can still flurry and hit five times (with Perfect Strike) at up to 110’, critting once, for 298 damage, or three times at up to 480’, using ki for range and doing 107 a round if he doesn’t crit, 172 if he does (50% chance on first such long distance flurry, 100% on second).
B: The gold needs 17s to hit One in melee. Even if it teleports away and buffs, it can’t get a melee bonus greater than +39 and still needs 14s to hit. The gold’s breath weapons are also useless: One saves and evades the fire (on a 4) and makes the Fortitude save to entirely avoid the weakening breath (with a 7). (I think the Bestiary has an error on the ancient gold’s cone breath range, by the way; it should be 60’, not 120’). Combat maneuvers aren’t viable either (natural 20s needed); nor are offensive plane shifts (One saves on 2s).
C: At some point in this long fight One is going to think about putting up Mantis Style. He’ll do less damage that round, but his stun DC will go up to 36 thereafter. The gold needs a 12 for that, will fail, fall out of the sky for a bit of damage, and will start the next turn prone and probably still within One’s vast range. Since this is a borderline fight-changing save, we’ll say the gold saves against every other stun once Mantis Style goes up, but the stunned rounds are still going to mess it up badly - not least because it reduces it to moving on the ground, while One hovers 100’ above it.
D: The gold has basic dispel magics , which might circumvent One’s rings if you want to rule it that way, but the dragon only has a Caster Level of 15 with its true spells. This means it needs a 12 to nullify One’s belt, his most crucial item. The dragon might eventually nullify the bow for 2 rounds (it needs an 11, so it’ll take two castings to do this using the multiple d20 fight rule; it might quicken to cast twice in a round) and it can easily nerf the headband or broom - but these things aren’t crucial to One. He still bypasses the dragon’s DR/magic (his arrows are Supernaturally ki focus weapons, and gain that quality whenever he shoots) and he still hits with Pinpoint Targetting; he also hits with three attacks of his flurry at up to 160’ with his dispelled bow.
E: The gold has antimagic field , which will take some sting out of One’s arrows, but if it uses this it can’t cast heal - which it has to do repeatedly and urgently, because One is always doing significant damage.
F: The gold has up to 12 uses of heal ; 7 sixth level slots, 5 seventh level ones. This could keep it feeling moderately chipper for about 10 rounds at 150hp healing a pop, assuming it casts no quickened dispel magics . The thing is, this takes up the dragon’s rounds and slots, and One has 30 ki points post- barkskin and only needs one each round, to spend either on unarmed damage or on increased range. Eventually the dragon is reduced to cure moderate wounds if it wants to heal. Each cure heals 19hp, which doesn’t remotely counter One’s damage, and the dragon can’t quicken these, because it has run out of higher level slots.
The gold’s only other significant ability is geas/quest . This is lethal - no save, and CL26 to counter Spell Resistance - but it has a 10 minute casting time.
The upshot is that One looks like he might take his first Beastmass damage when the dragon dispels his broom, but actually the broom uses overland flight , which uses fly , which means the broom descends gracefully and the drop deals no harm. And that’s all the dragon has. One slays the earthbound gold with an arrow to the eye roundabout round 10 from 110’ altitude. He hasn’t used his boots of speed on the Pinpointed single shots, but he’s probably still used 5 of 10 hastes , 13 of 33 ki (including barkskin ), 10 of 20 Perfect Strikes, 10 of 21 Stunning Fists, and his Quivering Palm. Game on!
On the Second Day of Beastmass (Noon): One vs the Solar
Spoiler:
How to kill angels? It ain’t easy, that’s for sure - and One is aware of that, because despite being on the thick side, he has Knowledge (Planar). He knows this is the Bestiary’s best shot at a win. The solar - a CR23 SMACC healer-buffer par excellance - is facing off against one measly 20th level human, so we’re not going to let it buff ahead of time. It will do that as soon as it feels threatened, though, because it’ll plane shift to Heaven, magic up to the hilt, then use miracle to plane shift back and wish to greater teleport to the battlefield. Buffed, it defeats One in a dozen rounds, courtesy of DR15/epic, regeneration 15, copious healing, holy aura (+4 all saves), limitless CL20 greater dispels , and the deadly downwards spiral of the power words blind, stun and kill. In short, One has to defeat the solar before it gets a standard action off.
One is transported to the angel’s earthly residence, which is a rustic cottage surrounded by heavenly gardens. The solar is tending its sunflowers. The monk approaches on his broom, flying through the earth 5’ under the angel’s vineyards, ethereal (3 ki) and unperceived, because although the angel’s true seeing spots ethereality, it doesn’t penetrate solid objects. One creeps about, making auditory Perception checks through a foot of earth to hear the solar’s secateurs (results of 51 are eventually good enough), then rises up close or adjacent to the solar (5’ step) and comes out of ethereality (dismissing is a standard action which doesn’t provoke. This is One’s surprise round). Everyone perceives everyone. One goes first.
He activates Mantis Style and flurries. He hits only with the first three shots, doesn’t threaten, doesn’t do unarmed damage (no swift action left) and doesn’t overcome the angel’s epic DR, so that’s a paltry 66 nonlethal. The solar is still on 297 nonlethal hp, but it fails against the stun - it needs a 13 now the monk is making like a mantis. Since this is pretty borderline and a fight-changer I’m going to ignore fight rules and say the angel saves against every third stunning arrow.
Solar’s turn. It’s stunned, but still regenerates to 312 hp.
One’s turn. He flurries against a stunned AC40. With unarmed damage back online again, he hits four times (because of Perfect Strike) and crits once (50% chance from last round, 60% chance this round). That’s a better 196 nonlethal after epic DR, and the angel (116 virtual hp) is stunned for a second time: it still regenerates to 131hp.
One’s turn - and in fact two failed stuns are all he needs. He flurries, hits four times, crits once, and does another 196 nonlethal after DR. The angel is unconscious on minus 65 virtual hp and regenerates to minus 50. One stops expending ki and haste, flurries the carcass awhile longer, then finally gets with the programme, pours unholy water on the divine remnants, flurries some more, rinses and repeats. ‘There can be only One,’ he murmurs contemplatively, as he takes the dead solar’s bow as a memento.
(On the other hand, maybe the angel makes its second save. I think it’s slightly unlikely, but I’m no mathematician and if it does, that’s the only chance a solar requires. It 5’ steps back and vanishes, then reappears fully healed and buffed 12 rounds later, majestically ready to avenge the mortal’s insult. With a buffed AC of 49 and a Will save of +27 it beats the stun on a 9, heals damage almost as fast as One can inflict it (Pinpoint Targetting nets him one hit and one crit every two rounds against AC16 for an averaged 50 damage a round, after DR and regeneration) and once it dispels One’s belt it has him in range of the power words . Our doughty zen archer is stuffed.)
We’ve still got the big guy for One to fight, though, so let’s get a breath of life in him and on with the show, eh?
On the Second Day of Beastmass (Dusk): One vs the Tarrasque
Spoiler:
One has 1 charge of haste , 17 ki points, 6 Perfect Strikes and 8 stuns left for his last fight. He goes first. He flurries, he hits (openers on 2s), he stuns (the tarrasque needs a 20 to save). One spends the next few rounds pumping stunning flurries into the beast, followed by about 340 coup-de-grace vital-strike arrows, reducing the tarrasque to about minus 16,000 virtual hp (taking into account DR and regeneration, obviously), which gives him all the time he needs to shovel the machinegunned remains into four bags of holding he’s hired for the day, then turn ethereal (3 ki) and dump them out on the Ethereal Plane, where the beast drives all ghosts to extinction over the course of a decade, then starves into a permanent coma (because regeneration can’t heal starvation damage).
In recognition of his services to the multiverse, One the Zen Archer is awarded the title Lord Ghostslayer and stewardship of the Nine Kingdoms he calls home, where he lives happily ever after.
So the solar was only a narrow victory. Still, One put on a rather good show, didn’t he? Can a wizard or cleric beat Beastmass? Can a paladin or barbarian? How many builds can do it without taking a single point of damage? Let’s look at why One does well, and then consider some build points.
First of all, I want to say how much I enjoy this archetype. Smooth to play, interesting at every level up, fundamentally different in playstyle from a basic monk - good design all round.
Second, I have some queries. To wit:
(1) Ki Focus Bow: "At 17th level, as long as he has at least 1 point of ki in his ki pool, a zen archer may treat arrows fired from his bow as if they were ki focus weapons, allowing him to use his special ki attacks as if his arrows were unarmed attacks. This ability replaces tongue of the sun and moon."
What constitutes a special ki attack?
Only in the description of the ki focus weapon ability is there anything like a definition. Here it says that these special attacks 'include' the Stunning Fist feat, the stunning attack class ability, Quivering Palm and the ki pool DR negators.
My question here is, what about the monastic-flavoured feats in the new Pathfinder material - in particular, Elemental Fist and Touch of Serenity? These look as if they might well be 'special ki attacks', because they're substituted for the stunning attack class ability by several of the new monastic archetypes. In addition, the ki focus weapon ability list 'includes', which appears to leave room for these kinds of additions. But at this point I'm inferring, and I'd love to have a clear definition.
(2) Point Blank Master/Reflexive Shot and Prone Foes:
So here's this archer monk who spends all his days studying the art of close-quarters bowmanship. An enemy wizard runs past him; the monk trips him with an attack of opportunity. What happens next?
By the book, the zen archer gains no bonus to attack the adjacent, prone foe with his bow. Furthermore, he takes an effective -4 attack penalty. Despite being an expert at this kind of thing, he's taking a stonking penalty to attack.
This is RAW, but is it RAI? Personally I'd like to add riders to the Point Blank Master feat and the Reflexive Shot class ability to offset this quirk (the first to negate the penalty, the second to get the normal melee bonus), but would like to get some feedback first.
(3) Distintegrate and Attended Objects:
This isn't zen archer specific, but the bow matters to him and he likely has a lot invested in it. I'd just like folks' opinions on how this would work. For example: a 10th level zen archer is midfight with an 11th level wizard, who casts distintegrate at the archer's attended bow. By the book, I *think* the wizard probably needs a 3 to make the ranged touch attack (probable +7 against AC10); the bow then uses its attendant's (better) save, which probably has about a 40% chance of stopping the bow turning to dust. It's a +3 bow at this point, and costs 30% of the monk's normal wealth by level, so its loss is obviously a rather big deal (almost exactly the loss of a level's worth of wealth, actually - the kind of semi-permanent drain Pathfinder has largely done away with).
There's all kinds of mess here, though, largely because attacking objects is a slightly cobwebby corner of the rules. Does the bow gain its wielder's Dex bonus? What about other touch AC bonusses? Does Distingrate ignore hardness? Does the bow gain its attendants resistances and immunities? What about Spell Resistance? And what about the rule that a weapon can only be sundered by a weapon with an equal or greater enhancement - does that have any impact on Distintegrate? And why doesn't that rule apply to other magic items?
Anyway, big messy rules query there. Any answers or opinions on any of these much appreciated, and do Faq this if you think there are points worth it. Cheers,
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Ever wanted to play a rogue-type, but been put off by not being sure how Stealth really works? Ever GMed a shadowdancer PC, or a spellcaster who casts 1-round spells while invisible? Ever wondered why darkness doesn’t work the same way as invisibility, or why there’s a Perception penalty for something 10’ away, or whether a rogue can carry around a rubber plant and hide behind it? Ever been frustrated that a door doesn’t block line of sight? How annoying is that going to be?
If not, you might not have noticed that there are a few issues with Stealth and invisibility. They don’t work that well. Sometimes they work too well, sometimes they don’t work well enough, often they don’t work well together. These clarifications deal with these issues.
The root of all evil is this: for Stealth and invisibility, the game uses two entirely different Perception systems. For Stealth, it’s a simple opposed check. For invisibility, it’s a more sophisticated double DC - a sense/pinpoint system (p563), which doesn’t necessarily use Stealth at all. Over editions, these two systems have grown apart. Or maybe they were never that close to begin with. Anyway, they have rules and modifiers now which do not mesh.
Why not merge the Perception systems? If it would solve issues, why not use straight opposed skillchecks for both Stealth and invisibility - or the sense/pinpoint system for both? Well, when you start looking at it, there are good reasons why not. A universal sense/pinpoint system would skew the balance between Perception and Stealth - the multiple DCs would penalise one or the other, game-wide. And a simple opposed check is too simple for invisibility - distinguishing between sensing and pinpointing is really useful there. Plus, invisibility has to cater to those who aren’t being stealthy - so it can’t just use an opposed Stealth check. It needs clean base DCs for the unstealthy invisible dude.
So there are good reasons for having two detection systems - they just have to work better together. Can’t be too hard, right?
* Issue 1: The Mods
The mods for the Stealth and invisibility detection systems don’t match. Moving at half speed, moving at full speed, not moving at all - read back and forth between Stealth and Appendix 1, apply it all to a sample invisible stealthy dude (let’s call him Wally), and it’s a mess. It’s not all invisibility’s fault, either. There are old bits of writing in the Stealth skill that are...not great. A -5 penalty if you move ‘greater than half but less than your normal speed’? What speed is that, exactly? Does this mean there’s a higher penalty if I move at my normal speed? Because if it’s not -5....
Worse than this by far is the Stealth skill rider on invisibility, which is repeated throughout the core rules, and which I suspect originates with the spell. If you use Stealth while invisible, you get +20 Stealth, +40 while not moving (‘immobile’ as opposed to ‘moving’). These bonusses stack with everything on the invisibility table in Appendix 1, including the base invisibility DCs - in fact, the first +20 is listed on the invisibility table (‘Stealth+20’), while the extra +20 for not moving is listed on it too in the 4th printing of the core rulebook (errataed from a bizarre minus 40), where it even applies to a non-stealthy dude.
So to the eternal question: where’s Wally? Let’s see...that’s a base invisibility sense/pinpoint DC of 20/40, plus a full Stealth check, plus another 20, plus another 20 if he’s not moving...hmm. Sure, it’s supposed to be ‘practically impossible’ to pinpoint an invisible dude, but does the DC need to be this high? Assume Wally is no expert: he’s a level 3 spellcaster, with Stealth+5. He gets 15 on his Stealth check. It’s a DC75 Perception check to pinpoint him moving at half speed. If he stands still, it’s a DC95. At third level.
Here’s what I reckon: at some point, back in the mists, invisibility was only defined by the spell, and the spell only made reference to Stealth (Hide in Shadows), giving a +20/+40 modifier to that skill. Unfortunately, this ignored the fact that some dudes wouldn’t be at all stealthy while invisible. So as the game progressed, a separate and more sophisticated detection system was added for invisibility, which covered both the stealthy and the non-stealthy dude. This system used the old spell modifiers as its vanilla base DCs: 20 for sensing, 40 for pinpointing. But the rules weren’t rewritten elsewhere. The +20/+40 to Stealth while invisible is still there in the skill, in the spell, and scattered elsewhere throughout the core rulebook, and has even been added back in to invisibility on p563 - even though combining base invisibility DCs with these extra mods creates Perception DCs which are not just ‘practically impossible’, but pointlessly high.
What happens if we ditch the +20/+40 bonus mentioned in Stealth (and elsewhere) for invisibility? Well, it’s now a DC55 Perception check to pinpoint Wally. Does that still sound ‘practically impossible’? Definitely. In fact, the only other skill use described as ‘practically impossible’ is catching yourself while falling (Climb), which is a DC30-55: so DC55 is good.
What if Wally doesn’t move? Is that really another +20? If we’re going to make the Stealth and invisibility systems work together, the modifiers should match up for a Stealth-user in both situations. +20 for not moving on all Stealth checks? By gods no; it’s way too high. It makes good sense as a modifier, though. So...+5 when not moving, for both Stealth and invisibility? That makes sense, and is a nice little situational bonus for rogue-types, and a little love does them no harm - they need it.
Or you could try to make the two systems work together without matching all the modifiers.
You could have two separate modifier tables for invisibility on p563, for Stealth and non-Stealth. That’s messy, though, and it doesn’t really make sense. So, better to take the bull by the horns, assess the base DCs and modifiers, and produce a single invisibility DC modifer table that matches and includes the relevant mods for Stealth and Perception.
By now, one way and another, you’re rewriting not only invisibility, but Stealth and Perception. To do that properly, you need to start looking at the other rules that affect Stealth too, like darkness. The issue of mundane invisibility is cropping up.
* Issue 2: The Middle Ground - Darkness and Closed Doors
It will have become apparent that there is a slightly insanely vast gulf between Stealth DCs and invisibility DCs. Invisibility needs vanilla, Stealth-free base DCs for unstealthy dudes - that 20/40 is part of the gulf. But the Stealth system has a rider on invisibility - the +20/+40 - that doubles the difference. If Wally moves at half speed, invisibility gives him an effective +60 to Stealth versus pinpoint, +80 if he doesn’t move.
But what if our lowly Wally is effectively invisible in darkness, or behind a closed door? Well, by the book, those seeking him in darkness use the Stealth detection system, not the invisibility system (see darkness, p442). There’s a pinpoint check, but it’s not a proper invisibility one - it’s straight Perception-Stealth. No base DCs, no +20/+40 for being stealthy and invisible. Result? The Perception pinpoint DC to find Wally is DC75-95 when he’s Invisible, while the Perception pinpoint DC to find him invisible in complete darkness is just 15, his Stealth roll. Meanwhile the closed door gives all viewers X-ray vision. The door (total cover) doesn’t block line of sight at all - the rules don’t allow it, because total cover doesn’t block sight. The door would need to give total concealment for that, and total concealment blocks line of sight but specifically not line of effect, so can’t provide total cover. Hmm...
I think there’s only one reasonable way to deal with this middle ground. Invisibility is invisibility. Darkness and the closed door need to be using the same detection system as magical invisibility. Sense and pinpoint levels are useful, make sense, and we have a system for them. Concealment and cover need to be rewritten, and invisibility extended.
Having extended the applicability of invisibility to total cover and total concealment, it’s even more urgent that the Perception DCs be pitched right. DC95 to pinpoint Wally behind a closed door makes that door ridiculously powerful - or rather, it highlights how wrong that DC95 is.
So the Stealth skill rider - the +20/+40 - is out. That leaves the invisibility base DCs. Do they really need to be 20/40? Remove the Stealth riders and Wally the 3rd level non-rogue-type is still a DC55 pinpoint, which is at the very upper of Climb’s ‘practically impossible’ catching-yourself DCs. Those go down to DC30. And for most characters and monsters, a DC30 check is still practically impossible - DCs of 75 and 95 are so extreme that the difficulty of a DC30 is easy to forget.
So, let’s try lowering the invisibility base DCs and see what happens. DC10 to sense, DC20 to pinpoint. While we’re at it, let’s insert a DC15 to gauge direction in the middle, because that’s very useful. We’ll have to adjust the modifiers accordingly, to fit these lower base DCs: so combat and speaking go from minus 20 to minus 10, full speed from minus 10 to minus 5, half speed from minus 5 to zero - which brings invisible movement mods into line with Stealth movement mods. Synchronicity - excellent!
How hard is it to sense and pinpoint Wally now? To sense him moving at half speed is a Perception DC25 - base 10, plus 15 on his Stealth check. To gauge his direction is a DC30. To pinpoint his square is a DC35. This is for a not-so-wily 3rd level dude. And if Wally stays nice and still, he’s getting +5: DC30/35/40 to sense/gauge direction/pinpoint. He could stand invisible in the corner of a room, and there’s a good chance no one would even sense him. You never know, though - Wally’s not a Stealth expert, and there might be a grizzled old ranger in the room, whose neck-hair starts rising. Is this working better than DC75-95? I think so. Is it still ‘practically impossible’? Yeah, for a level 3 game.
Now, what if Wally casts Summon Monster? He has to speak in a strong voice to spellcast (p213), but he can stand still. By the book, his speaking lowers the Perception DC by 20, but we’ve halved that to minus 10, to fit broader and more moderate invisibility applications.
Can Wally still add his Stealth to the DC? Surely not, though again, Stealth isn’t well-written enough to be sure. You can’t use Stealth while being ‘observed’ by a perceptor with any of its senses, though - and that’s a good rule, badly worded. If we clean that up, it means Wally can’t add his Stealth to the DC while speaking.
So if Wally starts casting Summon Monster in the room, in a strong voice, the Perception DC to sense him is now paltry (base 10, +5 for not moving, minus 10 for speaking: DC5). To gauge his direction is easy (DC10), and to pinpoint his square hard (DC15), but possible. By the book, the last of those DCs would be 40 with the errata: base DC40, +20 for not moving, -20 for speaking.
All this can all be reasonably applied to mundane invisibility, without making doors and darkness crazy powerful. They’re still slightly more significant, but then perhaps they should be - until the torch is lit, or the door opened. Applying all this takes some work on redefining invisibility - we now need at least two types (mundane and magical), which react differently to spells, supersenses and so on, but that’s not hard to do.
* Issue 3 - Stealth
Having spent a bit of time on Stealth, its inherent weaknesses will have become noticeable. When can you use it? When can’t you use it? Can you speak? Can you hide behind a rubber plant you carry around? Sure, the GM can just rule on the fly, but that doesn’t help players who want to know how their characters are going to play. The core rules are for players as well as GMs, and new players as well as old hands. The Stealth rules should be clear.
Clarifying the use of Stealth isn’t that difficult - the rules already point towards what they could be - but it is extensive and fiddly. It means rewriting the many other parts of the rules that relate to the skill. Perception is one part, naturally, but you’re also looking at cover and concealment, light and darkness, lots of spells, several conditions and supersenses, some gear, some other skills, and some racial and class abilities - hide in plain sight amongst them. Light and darkness are particularly awful, and once you’ve rewitten them, you’re also rewriting entries for all light sources. It’s big and messy, but it all looks immeasurably better when you’ve done it.
Sample Perception DCs, with by-the-book comparisons, all at 30’ unless specified
(AKA, This Is Why Bother)
1) Perception DC to pinpoint an immobile, invisible 3rd level wizard casting a 1-round spell (Summon Monster):
DC here: 15. DC RAW: 43 with errata, minus 17 without
2) DC to pinpoint the same wizard if he keeps quiet (Stealth+5)
DC here: 30+d20 DC RAW: 87+d20 with errata, 68+d20 without
3) DC for a sleeping commoner farmer to sense a 5th level rogue (Stealth+12), tiptoeing across open ground at half speed to steal the farmer’s chickens:
DC here: 32+d20 DC RAW: 13 (fully perceive)
4) DC for an alert watchman to pinpoint the same rogue, immobile and invisible:
DC here: 37+d20. DC RAW: 95+d20 with errata, 75+d20 without
5) DC for the watchman to pinpoint the invisible rogue as he moves stealthily at half speed:
DC here: as (3) DC RAW: either 70+d20 or 75+d20 (unclear)
6) DC for the watchman to merely sense the same rogue doing the same thing:
DC here: 22+d20 DC RAW: either 50+d20 or 55+20 (unclear)
7) DC to perceive a creature with Stealth+5 hiding motionless in dim light:
DC here: 10+d20 DC RAW: 8+d20
8) DC to sense the same creature hiding motionless behind a closed door (and so invisible):
DC here: 30+d20 DC RAW: 13+d20 (to perceive fully)
9) DC to perceive the same creature doing the same thing behind an arrowslit:
Right, I'm stumped by this and would appreciate some help.
I'm thinking of playing a halfling wizard in an upcoming game, which will start at 3rd level. I want to focus on summoning and buffing while invisible. This means I'll be casting quite a few 1 round spells (Enlarge Person, Summon Monster).
What I need to know is how hard it will be for foes to pinpoint my square while I'm casting. So I go to Invisibility, in the special abilities section (p563 core rulebook, identical text in the PSRD) and try and work out the pinpoint DCs.
On the whole these look the same as in 3.5. The table's a bit confusing (you start with a base DC40 and add or subtract the table mods), but maybe it's bound to be with Listen rolled into Perception and Move Silently rolled into Stealth. And the way it all combines with the Stealth description is also less than clear, but I think I get it (you can't use Stealth at all if you're audibly casting: in that case you just use the base invisibility pinpoint DC). Anyway, it all works, with one exception.
Pathfinder has added an entry to the special ability table. When you're 'not moving', the DC to pinpoint you is now 40 easier. If you're spellcasting verbally, this stacks with a -20 to the base 20 DC, for a total base of DC -20 (base 40 minus 60). By comparison, the DC to pinpoint a charging, shouting creature is DC 0, the DC to pinpoint a silent charging creature is DC20, and the DC to pinpoint an invisible creature talking and moving at half speed is DC15.
There's something amiss here, but I can't see how to correct it. A simple change from -40 to +40 is clearly wrong - that would mean the invisible motionless summoner can only be pinpointed with a DC60 Perception check (base 40 +40 -20). -40 to +20 would tally with the rules for Stealth - which give you +40 when invisible and motionless - but results in a base DC40 to pinpoint the invisible summoner, which also seems to me too high.
My gut tells me this entry shouldn't exist at all. This gives a DC20 to pinpoint the speaking, invisible summoner within 30' (this is all within 30') instead of the normal DC40. I could also see the logic of 'not moving' attracting a -5 or -10 to the Perception DC, but putting -40 when you mean -5 or -10 doesn't seem a natural typo.
I haven't seen this problem come up elsewhere on the boards, so any clarification or advice would be helpful. Cheers,
Hmm...just noticed this. Not sure if others have mentioned it, or if it's a boon or actually overpowered - thoughts?
Celestial template (ditto Fiendish in essence):
"Smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes; smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests).
- So, the template uses the new Pathfinder version of Smite, which of course makes sense. Only, the new Smite is a great deal more powerful than the old - all the more so for a Summons, which will likely be smiting until it vanishes.
Examples, more or less off the top of my head:
(1) Celestial Giant Octopus (Summon Monster 6): normally the octo gets a bite at +13 (1d8+5+poison) and eight tentacles at +11 (1d4+2+grab+constrict, reach 20). Smite won't boost the attack, but the damage goes through the roof - 1d8+17 for the bite, 1d4+14 for each of eight tentacles. Constrict damage is "usually equal to the creature's melee attack", and is normally 1d4+2, so presumably that also goes up to 1d4+14, until the foe dies.
For an Augmented summons, that's 1d8+19 and 8x 1d4+16, plus constricts.
(note that the Octopus has a land speed of 20; it has to hold its breath fighting ashore, but it has the Con to do that for a combat; especially if the summoner has Augment Summons)
(2) Improved Familiar Celestial Hawk: using the d20pfsrd stats (since the PF Bestiary doesn't have it yet), the hawk gets two talons at +5, for a measly 1d4-2 each. However, a familiar uses its owners hit dice "For the purpose of effects related to the number of hit dice". So at 3rd level (the lowest possible for the celestial hawk) the bird can smite at +5/+5 (1d4+1). By 10th it's doing 1d4+8 until the evil target falls. Interesting, but not as uber as the octopus.
(3) the Summoner...well, I haven't really looked into the Summoner, but I imagine this could be put to some use with the longer-term summons.
Of course, you might have to *tell* the octopus what to smite, which probably requires some expenditure of resources...still, it's a punchy upgrade to have it smiting right through a fight.
The whole issue of combat actions first struck me during the Vital Strike debate: Vital Strike is worded to work off an 'Attack', which is a (relatively rare) use of the standard action sub-term, Attack Action. That was confusing for two reasons;
(1) the term 'Attack' sounds like it could mean any 'attack', and
(2) the great majority of attacks remain almost completely undefined in terms of action type. I'd never really clocked this. It's an inheritance - it's not Pathfinder's fault - but it isn't clear, and it becomes very confusing when some feats work off standard actions, some off attack actions, some off any attack, and some off swift or immediate actions.
I think it would be useful to do something about this. Especially useful if there are to be more feats like Vital Strike, that work off the attack action; but useful in any case, since there are other ambiguities that arise out of the lack of complete combat action definitions.
So that's where I'm coming from, on what might seem a rather dry point. I was surprised at how many types of attack are undefined or ambiguously defined in action terms - really, the only type of attack which is *clearly* defined is that you take before or after a move: in other words, the standard 'attack action'. Everything else is pretty hazy. Undefined and ambiguously defined attack actions include;
* (1) Charge. It's a 'melee attack', but that term is ambiguous (is it an 'attack action', which is a standard action?), and the ambiguity is compounded by recent designer suggestions that Vital Strike can't be used on a charge, which would make it not an attack action (not a standard action);
* (2) Spring Attack: this too is worded as a 'single melee attack' - so presumably what goes for a charge goes for a spring; but again, it's ambiguous and basically unclear
* (3) Shot on the Run: you can 'fire a ranged weapon', but again there's no clue as to whether this is a standard action, or something else entirely. It should probably chime with charge and spring attack (which should probably chime with one another), but already this is entirely my personal definition, since I've not much else to go on.
* (4) Full Attack attacks: there is no definition for the action involved in an attack made as part of a full attack. That's pretty weird, when you think about it, since iterative attacks are one of the more common types of attack. What are they? Dunno. A special kind of swift action ('swift attack'; can be performed multiple times) might fit the bill.
Would it be useful to have such a definition? Well, that depends what terms are being used for the wording of feats and so forth. If there are feats that can be used on 'an attack', then yes. If there are feats that can be used as a swift action, then also yes - because it isn't clear if the sub-attacks in a full attacks are modified swift actions, or free actions, or something else entirely. A definition here would clear the field for the wording of future feats and other abilities.
* (5) Attacks of Opportunity: again, remarkably, the only thing close to an action-type definition here is that an AoO is a 'single melee attack'. That doesn't mean it isn't a standard attack action. We know it's not, because otherwise you'd be getting multiple standard actions (and out of turn). An AoO is something else, a different kind of action. What is it? Search me. A special type of immediate action might fit the bill (one usable multiple times under special conditions). Would it be useful to have a definition? Yes, because as is it's not clear what types of feats (attack, standard, swift, immediate) and what kind of combat maneuvers can be utilised on an AoO.
* (6) Combat Maneuevers: I don't know where to begin with these. In PF, every maneuver *does* have a definition...but to be honest, I'd be hard-pressed to know which goes where and when during an AoO, a full attack, or a spring attack. Disarm and Trip look like they can be used anytime at all you're in melee ('in place of a melee attack), Sunder is worded as an attack action (so can't be used during a full attack, or charge?), Grapple is a standard, Bull Rush is a standard *or* a charge (aha, so they're different, maybe), and Overrun...appears to be a standard action that you can use during a move, without even using an attack at all.
Would it be useful if combat manuevers were more clearly defined in action type terms? I think so. As things stand, the wording is confusing and offputting. Because the maneuvers vary so much, their action types are easy to forget. There should be one action type for all these maneuevers.
What I'd love to see:
- Clear-cut action type definitions for 1-6. Isn't it a bit bizarre that we don't have these already? If we do - sorry, I missed them, and I've been playing around with the game for a while.
- The creation of new action types where necessary. The fewer the better. I think special-case swift- and immediate actions might be useful ('special case' because with the right special abilities, they can be used more than once per round). Those aside, I'm not sure any new actions are needed, and it might be that none are.
- Eradication of all uses of 'attack action'. This is confusing to experienced players; I can't bear to think how it comes across to those just coming to the game. An attack is an attack, but it isn't an attack? What? Fortunately, uses of 'attack action' are rare: Sunder uses it. Vital Strike now uses it. These should be reworded. If they're standard actions, call them standard actions.
- the 5' step moved from 'nonaction' to 'special swift action' or somesuch. As written in Pathfinder, this can be taken out of turn, just as a foe attacks, even flatfooted.
**
That's all I've got for the time being. I suspect there are other examples of blurring - please add them if they occur to you.
The Porp.
Full Name
Fiallain Bo'airr of the Cosaida Sept of the Chareen Aiel
Race
Human (Aiel)
Classes/Levels
HPs 90/142 || AC 23 || F 13 || R 12 || W 13 || Percept 18 ||
MW Aiel Spear:+12 / +7 (1d6+3)(18-20)x2; 20 ft Range
MW Dagger:+12 / +7 (1d4+3)(19-20)x2; 10 ft range
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Feats:
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Blooded (+2 Initiative and perception) Combat Expertise(-2 attack, plus 2 AC) Improved Grapple(+2 CMB & CMD when grappling– do not provoke AoO) Latent DreamerEnables access to Dreamwalking feats
Dreamwalk:
While asleep, you can bring yourself into the dream realm. You arrive dressed as you would normally dress and carrying the equipment you would normally carry and at the location where you are in the real world. You can attempt to appear in a different location by making a Composure check. DC varies according to how well you know the location. (DC15 for very familiar up to 30 for a place you've never been.
While in Tel'aran'rhiod, you can move act and channel just as in the real world. You may exit Tel'aran'rhiod at any time. With a Composure check (DC15) you may awaken immediately in the real world.
Bend Dream Dream Jump
Remove Block Multiweave Extra Affinity: Spirit Extra Talent: Warding Splitting the Flows( Cast simultaneous weaves up to wisdom modifier in number. Weaves cast cost +2 levels per additional weave. Requires Composure ck DC16 for first, 20, for 2nd weave, and upward in increments of 4 for additional weaves) Skill Focus: Channel +3 (now +6) bonus to Channel checks
Extra Talent: Traveling
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Skills:
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Acrobatics (9) +15 Appraise (0) +2 Bluff (1) +5 Channel (11) +24 (+5 to Overchannel)
[b]Climb (4) +10 Composure (1) +8 Craft (0) N Diplomacy (1) +5 Dreaming (10) +17 Disable Device (0) N Disguise (0) +1 Escape Artist (0) +3 Handle Animal (0) N Heal (1) +8 Innuendo (0) N Intimidate (6) +12(+4 W.O.) Invert (8) +13 Knowledge Arcana (1) +6 Knowledge Waste (1) +6 Linguistics Perception (9) +18(+2 blooded) Perform (0) +1 Pick Pocket (0) N Profession (0) N Read Lips (0) N Ride (0) +3 Sense Motive (6) +13 Sleight of Hand (0) +3 Stealth (10) +16 Survival (1) +8(1 free background rank) Swim (0) +3 WeaveSight (12) +17
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The One Power
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Affinities:Air, Spirit Talents:Elementalism, Warding, Travelling
Weaves per Day:
Level 0: 6+0 - DC 14
Level 1: 4+2 - DC 15
Level 2: 4+1 - DC 16
Level 3: 3+1 - DC 17
Level 4: 3+1 - DC 18
Level 5: 2 - DC 19
Level 6: 1 - DC 20
Weaves Known:
Threading the Needle (learned via weavesight check)
Cloud Dancing:
Foretell Weather
Warmth
Raise Fog (frm Jasmine)
Conjunction:
False Trail
Trace
Elementalism:
Arms of Air
Fiery Sword
Fireball (frm Alathea)
Harden Air
Immolate
Light
Tool of Air (frm Litheene)
Wall of Flames (frm Analin)
Wand of Fire
Healing:
Heal
Heal the Mind
Delve (frm Alathea)
Rend (from Alathea)
Illusion:
Eavesdrop
Disguise (frm Alathea)
Mirror of Mists
Warding:
Barrier to Sight (frm Litheene)
Circle of Silence (frm Alathea)
Cut Weave
Dream Shielding
Shield
Ward against People (frm Alathea)
Weave Deflection
Worn or Carried
Wise One's 'Outfit' (2 lb)
Waterskin (4 lb)
Signal Whistle
Knife (1 lb)
Clear Orb a channel of spirit into the orb enables the user to see any weaves cast by both male and female channelers. Grants a +4 to viewing previously cast weaves. Sacrifice a weave slot and the orb will illuminate the weaves used within a 30ft radius, making the weaves visible to both channelers and nonchannelers
Dream Ring
Clear Amulet - +2 Con
Weight Carried or worn: 21
Class Abilities:
Algai: Ji'e'toh -(All Algai’d’siswai follow a strict
code of honor. Should an Algai’d’siswai
ever break this code, they must atone for
their actions or be unable to progress in
levels as an Algai’d’siswai.)
Fast Movement (+10 to speed when not wearing armor)
Hardiness - Algai’d’siswai have nearly unstoppable endurance.
Once per day,they may attempt a Con ability check
(DC 15) when fatigued. If successful, they are
no longer fatigued, as if they had rested for 8 hours.
Unarmed Strike - Algai’d’siswai are highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving them aconsiderable advantage when doing
so against “weaker” Wetlanders. An
Algai’d’siswai fighting unarmed gains the
benefits of the Improved Unarmed Strike
feat and thus does not provoke attacks of
opportunity from armed opponents. He
may choose to deal regular or subdual
damage at no penalty, and can also make a
critical hit (20/x2) while dealing regular damage.
Spears of Death: - The Algai’d’siswai
master a deadly fighting style of grace and
perfection, so smooth and confident are
their actions that, to others, it looks as
beautiful as a dance. At level one, an
Algai’d’siswai may make a flurry of
attacks. When taking a full-attack action,
they can make one extra attack at their full
base attack bonus, but receive a -2 penalty
on all attack rolls for one round.
Dance the Spears (+2 initiative)
Uncanny Dodge (Retain Dex bonus to defense regardless of being flat-
footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (She still
loses dex bonus to defense when immobilized.)
Wise One: Support: (receives all necessary requirements from clan & sept - room / board, weapons & equipment, funds needed for specific purposes & missions)
Iron Will: (+2 on Will Saves)
Great Fortitude: (+2 on Fort Saves)
Wise One presence: (+4 on Intimidation checks)
Endurance: Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on the following checks and saves: Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion; Constitution checks made to continue running; Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march; Constitution checks made to hold your breath; Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst; Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments; and Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation.
You may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.
