My Sisyphean hell is yelling "peek!" at cartmanbeck for eternity, reminding him to use his examine power before he draws his hand, as I had to do through all of S&S :D
Am I missing something here? I found this old thread which asks a question I have myself on the Master of Trade award, and it says "added to FAQ" but I'm not actually seeing a faq on it here. Obviously I would never let a player increase their spare money every week by doing the "buy a diamond, sell a diamond" method, but I am wondering if it can be used for upgrades, as one of my players will likely be getting this.
A mundane item can not be upgraded to masterwork, nor can nonmagical aspects of equipment be upgraded (such as the strength rating on a composite bow).
So I can only assume this was a rules change in the last couple years... I'm very new to PFS. I guess I'm just surprised I haven't seen any more recent threads explaining this, since it seems pretty counter to the spirit of PFS. Can anyone explain the reasoning for this? It seems like a pretty huge punishment for high level archers who might try to get their strength increased.
Seems like people always complain that Amulet of Mighty Fists (AOMF) is so expensive, penalizing monks much more than normal martial classes. A +2 AOMF is 20k, whereas a +2 weapon is 8k, +3 is 45k vs 18k. But as far as I can tell, CL20 permanent Greater Magic Fang would cost ~12k and be just as good as a +5 AOMF. I see no reason you can't get AOMF on top of that, stacking the +5 from GMF with AOMF giving a cheaper enhancement cost at all but the lowest levels, when compared to weapon enhancement costs.
Basically I'm trying to figure out if there is any validity to the idea that monks are screwed over by the cost of AOMF, or can we lay it to rest?
2k gold: your fighter buddy gets his +1 weapon
5k gold: you get your flaming amulet of mighty fists
8k gold: fighter gets +2 weapon
18k gold: fighter gets +3 weapon, you get +5 flaming unarmed strike
137k gold: you have +10 effective enhancement and your friends only have +8.
200k gold: friends finally catch up and have +10 weapons.
And it's really not even as bad as that, since you ought to be comparing yourself to the TWF buddy who is getting his +1/+2/+3 at 4k/16k/36k...
Is there something I'm missing here? I've been thinking about this a couple days now, additional thoughts below.
Spoiler:
A naive approach would be to simply say that you hire some spellcasting services, which costs you 10 x CL x SL, buy GMF, permanency, and add in the component cost of the permanency. This works out to 10 x 20 x 3 (for gmf) and 10 x 20 x 5 (for permanency) + 7500 (component). Note that most of the cost comes from the components for permanency, so you might as well go with CL20 here and get the most bang for your buck.
However, a few problems come up that mean this doesn't actually work:
1. GMF and Permanency aren't actually castable by the same classes.
2. Level 20 spellcasters aren't actually easily accessible even in a metropolis (max level casting available is 8th, suggesting 15th level spellcasters)
Solution to both? Scrolls. The cost of the GMF scroll is 25 x 20 x 3 = 1500 = 75% chance to find for sale in a Large Town. Permanency for this type of spell is 25 x 20 x 5 + 7500 = 10,000 = 75% chance of being found for sale in a metropolis.
IMO this makes more sense than going to your local godlike level 20 caster anyway :)
From here, you just need someone with a +30 in umd to take 10 on these scrolls (UMD DC40), pretty easily accomplished by a bard, say level 11 (+11 ranks, +3 class skill, +6 skill focus, +5 base modifier, +2 headband of cha, +3 circlet of persuation [yes diff slot from headband]) which means you pay him to take 10 on the two scrolls and boom, you have permanent +5 GMF for only 11500 invested.
Addressing concerns:
1. There's no rules for hiring someone to do UMD - Very true, but if you can find a level 15 spellcaster in a metropolis, surely you can find a umd optimized bard. Your dm would set the price, but considering the caster would have charged 10 x CL x SL, I think half that seems reasonable. This is the only thing that isn't completely RAW here, but seems perfectly reasonable
2. Dispels! This is the most common reason cited for not liking permanency. However there's something I think most people don't realize...
pfsrd wrote:
This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
Considering this is pretty affordable at low levels (before your friends get their +3 swords) you won't be facing a level 21 spellcaster any time soon. I personally haven't ever played past level 15. It's possible at really high levels that you would run into this but a) so what? you are slightly gimped the rest of combat, then another 12k to get it back is chump change at that level. Have someone with a spare GMF scroll to get you through combat if you are really concerned and b) if a level 21 caster wants to waste the time dispelling when they could be doing something FAR more useful, they are stupid and you should let them. On top of that they still have to make a DC31 CL check.
3. DR will suck! GMF doesn't let you bypass DR True, but there are other ways around this... use "align weapon" for alignment based dr. Your fists are Adamantine once you hit level 12, assuming you have monk's robes, which should be early enough. Silversheen oil for dr/silver. Cold iron is admittedly a big one, and I'm not actually sure if there's an easy way to deal with this unless someone has a suggestion. Seems like eating the DR might be the best solution, otherwise a cold iron temple sword or swap out your flamingholyfrostshocking aomf for a +3 aomf when needed.
4. It limits your flexibility at low levels, since you can't get a +2 flaming shocking attack like the fighter can. Yes, but we probably want all the "to hit" that we can get anyway, so I'm not too bothered by it.
Thoughts, anyone? Please explain how I'm wrong or go ahead and admit monks are the best ;)
There are a lot of interesting interactions between the feats and abilities of a flowing monk that aren't entirely clear... I'm sure I'll come up with more ambiguities when I actually start playing this character, but here's a several rules questions that seem unclear, along with my interpretation of how they work. I've found a few short threads related to this topic, but nothing comprehensive. If anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong, please let me know!
1. Redirection - takes place before the attack occurs, correct? So I do not take damage from it. Do I get to see the "incoming" attack's roll or outcome first, or do I just get to know that I was about to be attacked and by who? I would think I just know who is attacking me.
2. More on Redirection - What can they do after getting tripped? Say they get redirection-tripped, and I have vicious stomp, with Unbalancing Counter they are now prone and maybe flat footed and sickened. Have they used their standard action yet? Does the attack "fizzle"? Do they have to continue with the attack they were making, or, if they hadn't taken any other actions yet, can they instead stand up and attack? I would probably go with the least penalizing here... which is that they didn't use their standard action and could potentially stand up and single-attack, if my trip did in fact take place "before" their attack.
3. Trip + Vicious Stomp + Flurry + Unbalancing Counter - If I trip in the middle of a flurry, vicious stomp gets resolved in the middle of a flurry, then I go back to finish my flurry where I left off, but now against a prone, and potentially flat footed opponent?
4. More on Vicious Stomp - based on the wording, I assume this takes place after they are prone. It's just a little weird because normally AOOs take place right before whatever provokes them, but here it's pretty clearly intended to be after (so +4 on the AOO).
5. Trip as attack of opportunity - Related to #2... say I do a trip as an AOO, but lets say they are in the middle of a 30' move. I trip, they use a move action to stand up. Is that the end of their turn, since they have used two move actions, or do they get the rest of their original movement? I know you can't attack in the middle of a move, but idk about a move action (stand up) in the "middle" of a move. I would assume their turn is over, unless I was tripping them on their very first 5' of movement, in which case no movement took place before the trip.
6. Unbalancing Counter + Vicious Stomp - It says "until the end of your next turn", which is very clear for an AOO that occurs outside of my turn, but what about an AOO in the middle of my turn, such as Vicious Stomp? RAW would make me think it really means next turn, but that just seems a little too powerful, so I'm wondering if there's any other precedent for exactly what "next turn" means in this situation. Would it instead only last until the end of my current turn?
7. Flurry on the Fly - I'm assuming there's nothing wrong with me deciding what I'm going to do (trip vs damage) as I go along, and that I don't have to "declare" ahead of time which attacks will be trips and which will be damage. So my plan right now is to keep trying to trip until I succeed, do my vicious stomp, then continue my flurry with unarmed damaging attacks.
8. Qinggong + Other archetypes - Not directly concerning flowing monk, but any reason you can't combine qinggong with other archetypes it "overlaps" with? As long as you don't pick up the qinggong abilities when that ability is being replaced by other archetypes.
9. powerattack (via qinggong) +trip flurry- is there any reason I can't activate power attack AFTER my first successful trip in a flurry, in order to avoid the cmb penalty on my flurry-trips? This would still, of course, hurt my AOO trips between turns. Power attack just says it has to be "before an attack roll", it doesn't actually say it has to be at the start of a full round attack. This seems legit by RAW, just seems to go against how I normally think of power attack, and feels weird :)
If anyone is curious, here's my rather stupid looking monk, as I really dumped a LOT of stats (3 7s!) to get this one-trick pony to work :) assuming no one here points out something critical that makes this non-functional...:
Favored Class points into HP.
Skill points in Perception and Acrobatics
Equipment: Kama, ***Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile) ASAP***, enhancement bonuses on the kama eventually for better trips, damage bonuses on the amulet, magic fang and enlarge cast on me however I can get it. standard monk gear otherwise.
Archetype:
Flowing
Sacred Mountain (gl rp'ing this w/ flowing...)
Qinggong-Power Attack (1 ki, free action) instead of Purity of Body, use as soon as I get a trip off during my flurry)
Probably take truth, and maybe silent vow
Level 1 Feats:
Weapon Finesse-allows dex for trip CMB when replacing kama weapon attack
Improved Trip
Trait-Bullied - +1 on my trip and stomp AOO attacks
Trait-Boarded in Shackles - +1 Fort save, doing Serpent's Skull
L3 - Combat Reflexes
L5 - Vicious Stomp
L6 - Dodge
L7,9,11 - Crane Style Series
L10 - Improved Reposition
Haven't planned anything past this point... might not even get past level 5 with this guy...
As explained in my questions, the basic plan would be to use AOO's to trip and the start of my flurry to trip, and kick the crap out of anything on the ground... damage will be SUPER terrible until I get agile neck, but should be pretty nice after that. Being enlarged won't hurt or help my trip cmb, so I'll probably do that for reach+damage.
Normally when I come across a build who's mechanics are as ambiguous as this, I'd just do something else instead (I'm looking at you, Beast-bonded witch...) but this idea seems pretty fun, so hopefully it makes sense the way I've read it.
