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You can only take capstones / alternate capstones that your base class (or archetype if you took an archetype) could take at level 20.
I've had a busy week, but the PC is mostly done; I just have to transfer my notes to a Myth-Weavers sheet (I prefer that to plain-text sheets) and create the alias. I should be done by the end of the week-end.
- My PC will likely have strong healing abilities, but they require spending Mythic power which, while plentiful, is not unlimited.
- Having finally looked at sheets this week-end, I had noticed there are kinda two groups: one high-power, one lower-power. Gazul's listing makes that apparent. Up to the DM if they want everyone to converge or not (there could be 2 groups), and towards what. - Good to know about progressing templates. I may well take Half-Celestial anyway, because it fits the Angelic Herald theme, but I'll probably drop Advanced, which is flavourless in the first place (it's very nice, of course, but it's just "numbers go up"!). Half-Celestial becomes lackluster at CR +3 but that's a long ways off.
OK! I wasn't going to take it, as mentioned, so no impact on me.
And I agree with Gazul - at mythic level 10 we will all have a certain stench of cheese no matter what. It goes around balancing somehow to find a good party level that it’s still fun to everyone :) in my character’s case, my fun will be on boosting the people around me in a mythic way with things like my inspire courage. Having worked some more on the mechanical side, I have to agree. The power level of this game is going to be insane, even at level 1. :) I did not expect that, but I don't have a ton of experience with Mythic. Because of that, to answer the DM's earlier question about Combat vs RP, I feel like an emphasis on RP will work better - with some combat of course, but it need not be a focus. This game reminds me a bit of Exalted, and there the advice is to not make the game about success vs failure (the PCs are super-powerful, so they generally succeed), but about the consequences of their actions.
For instance, I think it would take a lot of effort to make a mythic 10 arch mage that is not broken as hell :D and I bet someone will make the classic vital strike champion I'm dual pathing into archmage (from Marshal). I think it's still OK at low levels - Archmage does rely on (enhanced) spells for much of its power. And you mentioned Vital Strike but that's not until level 6.Anyway, some intermediate validation for the DM: I'm thinking of adding
In terms of Mythic abilities, I'll also branch out from pure combat for some Diplomancy. She's the herald of Sarenrae, and she can make everyone who isn't our bitter enemy super friendly!
@DaisL: I think I'm foregoing Wizard Schools; so if you go that way I heartily recommend Void school, whose main ability is equal to Mythic ones in power. If you take the "take it to level 20" special ability, you get to inflict -10 to saves/AC to 1 enemy!
My bad on Plantbringer! It was mentioned by you a few posts above, I looked it up because I didn't know it, and Google led me to the "wrong" page, the one I linked to. So, for sure, as a Hierophant ability it makes that question moot. I asked in good faith about monster abilities since I thought it was one, but I can see how it might be taken the wrong way! Cheers.
No, by default they don't. Given how high-powered Mythic is, they're left behind in the dust - even more so in this game with the high Tier. Some Path abilities boost them, but nto enough to compete, I suspect. You need to even grab a feat tax to make them count as Mythic IIRC. All in all, better avoid them or just have them be pets for flavour, except if Elioa introduces some houserules about them.
A few questions, mostly about Mythic abilities:
- Are Monster Mythic abilities on the table, since Lapyd picked Plantbringer? That would also open up Dual Initiative, technically - which you might want to ban. - Is Mortal Herald OK? It's incredibly cool, but gives access to high-level spells which you may not want. - Are feats like Master Performer, with faction prerequisites, open in this game? (possibly with some reflavouring for the isekai universe) And noted, I'll make sure the bardic abilities don't overlap completely.
Seems fun! I thought about Bards at once, so I might submit one - with a super-powered Inspire Courage like Lapyd's, but probably less optimized overall. Or we'll see if something else strikes my fancy.
you know, im intrigued. you willing to pencil whip a concept character for me to examine? i may say no, so if you dont want bother, you dont have to... I suspect you're not familiar with Tome of Magic's Binders? Then, better I do not go down that road, that'll be one less subsystem for you to learn. I may go for a Bloodrager instead: it could be another of the Inquisitor's "pets", assuming they collect them. :-D The PC killed their own mother for being a witch.
Very even across: 14, 15, 14, 15, 14, 15 Are some 3.5E base classes allowed (e.g. Binder has a witchy feel too)? Or is the only 3.5E material allowed the FR prestige classes?
It's a good idea, but I would suggest starting modestly and expanding. High-level gestalt play with 3PP (each of these expands the complexity quadratically at least) is kind of a nightmare to manage and adjudicate ("can I interrupt his immediate Path of War counter with my attack of opportunity from my Akashic Veil that triggers an immediate casting of a Sphere effect?"), which I'm guessing would lead to a lot of DM attrition. Just checking such a build can take 1-2h so... Also, I'm firmly on the side of "no PvP" but I may not be representative.
Potentially interested, Witch Hunter Inquisitor could be fun. To avoid the clichéd severe, masculine inquisitor (repressed in every way), I'd probably make someone very nice and gregarious who just turns into a murder machine when uncovering a witch.
@GM West: when do you think you'll make selections?
I finished my PC - and did include the spellbook (at the bottom of Other Notes, at the bottom of the sheet). Unless I missed someone, here's the list of applications:
OK! Please don't say sorry, it's fine. :) FYI, I asked because the recruitment post said the following:
I'm more comfortable with the basic classes/feats/etc from the more popular ones (core rulebook of course, PHB II, and the Complete Warrior/Arcane/Divine/Adventurer). all of which are 3.5E books. I had already added a couple of 3.5E spells on my sheet, but they're tagged with the source (e.g. CArc for Complete Arcane) so they're easily identifiable and can be removed if nixed.
Rolling HP: Also, couple more questions:
- Magic Item Compendium, Spell Compendium and Complete Champion are common 3.5 books that are not listed as sources so, to confirm, we should avoid drawing from them? That wouldn't be a problem; I'm just checking.
Ah, I need to further clarify: I meant the feats the familiar gains for his base racial HD. For instance, the typical Faerie Dragon has Acrobatics and Dodge as feats, but my PC's familiar, if a faerie dragon (I'm also eyeing a different improved familiar), could hopefully have a different feat set via retraining. Thanks for the explanation regarding what you're looking for: that is balanced and perfectly understandable.
@namo Why would you need retraining when you're creating a brand new 7th level character? Not sure if I'm understanding the question. For a familiar, to retrain their "fixed" feats (except if you rule that I can choose their feats without retraining). You missed the question about crafting, by the way.
I've been doing PbP since a long, long, long time, so I totally understand what you mean about people (both players and DM) ghosting. I consider myself one of the reliable ones, but of course to you I'm just a stranger over the Internet, so you can't really know. :) I believe I've shown interest, by asking questions, checking out the existing thread (thanks for the tip about looking for tombs in general rather than Chisisek's - the need for nuance is exactly why I asked you) and posting a work-in-progress sheet. If I commit, I commit.
You'll note that I already had the "typical spells prepared" present on the sheet, so the PC could start the adventure with that right away. Cheers! Added the following (these are 1st versions, they are likely to evolve still):
Description:
Khepri-Nef is a rotund and jovial man with dark skin. He dresses conservatively but cannot quite escape the Osirian love of gold: he sports various assorted amulets, bracelets and other charms made from gold, lapis lazuli and jade. Background: Khepri-Nef is a scholar at heart, and always was, from a young age. Fascinated by papyrus and the written word, he taught himself how to read, and went on to have a brilliant run at the local mage's academy. After that... precisely nothing became of him: he was listless and did not how to put to use the gifts he had honed. After falling in with bad sorts, and accumulating debt, he climbed out of the hole he had himself dub by selling his services to various tourists and expeditions into the desert. Over time, his scholarship and practical talents for dealing with the threats of the great desert and its innumerable tombs became known, and he has had a successful run since then. Until, that is, the gnolls surprised his latest set of employers and him during the night and ignominiously held them captive.
- Do you allow Retraining?
- Are crafting feats allowed and potentially usable (including prior to joining the action, for the new PC), or is the campaign too fast-paced for them to be of interest? - When you say you want PCs "totally complete", would it be OK to wait until after selection to have the full spellbook done? It starts taking quite a bit of time at these levels. In case order of posting sheets matters, I have a rough draft - still missing fluff and some mechanics.
I'll work on an Arcanist, probably specializing in illusions, but also able to provide some battlefield control and knowledge. You didn't specify what you wanted your arcane caster to be able to do (different groups can have different ideas!), so hopefully that fits. If I'm not mistaken, to mesh well with the party's aim, the newcomer could e.g. be a scholar who was looking for Chisisek's Tomb?
@Chamak: no problem at all! And another twist! I wonder whether it's supposed to be an OoC twist, with the players wondering but the PCs ignorant, or whether it will become a thing in-game. In any case, Niloth is a Paladin - with a slightly different code of honour than the core PF paladin, but still pretty restrictive, so... I'll let you finish the deduction. ;-) And the formerly-missing PC Neela appears not be the Traitor since the DM was ready to go on without them, so... we're reducing the field of possibles. ^^ PS: I'm fairly new around here; is the convention to post with the PC's alias in the Discussion thread as well?
For the dyslexia issue, GM, have you tried giving your text to e.g. ChatGPT (or another AI engine) and asking for corrections? I hear it's pretty good at it. If there is still an offer of going through character sheets, I'd appreciate it, I haven't played a lot of gestalt characters and I don't want to miss something I'll try to review the remaining sheets as time allows. (If someone wants to review mine, feel free to. I found some errors just 2 days back, since I had started making tweaks before the maintenance and hadn't completed them.) I also have to hurry finalizing items and traits. The traitor thing I'm not sure I like having sprung on me - I'm not a fan of PvP - but we'll see how it unfolds. Perhaps there isn't even a traitor and it's just a DM's mindgame. (Cue the "this is what the traitor would say" reactions! Lol)
And we are back! Well, I hope so anyway. I had it written down before the downtime, so here it is:
Mechanics:
On the other hand, Weapon Focus Slam + Weapon Focus Claws is just Weapon Focus: Natural Weapons with EitR rules, I think? (didn't double-check) That would save you 1 feat. 2/ Paragon Shifter only grants 3 talents, but presumably you're counting the "virtual" talent that counts only for Improved Transformation. I'd tag it as such, though.
3/ The Personal Fate and Sanctified drawbacks both bar you from having the Open/Close word. 4/ How do you get +4 NA to AC? Transformation gives you +3. I may be missing something. 5/ Eternal Transformation: I think you chose Air Elemental, not Earth ;-)
6/ The Luckstone completely overlaps with your Serendipity permanent consecration => ditch it and save 20k? E.g. buying a +1 implement of Life for 2,000 would increase your healing by 1d8+2 - fairly significant. Comments:
A comment I forgot for Chamak which also applies here:
Sheet review - Chamak
Mechanics:
Comments:
@Ouachitonian
@Fen Wei
problem for me is if i let one player have it i have to let all players have it. so i need to limit somethngs sorry just to have an even playing feld No worries, I understand! The Prodigy part of the build doesn't really work without Might talents, but I pivoted away from it.
@GM_Panic: I was going to ask - and it's also relevant for @GM_Drake based on his last post -, but possibly some abilities could be allowed to go over the cap? Assuming they are a core part of the PC and require a significant investment. So Drake's Mythic power could work (costing a mythic ability and 1 MP per use is significant), and possibly my Paladin's smite AC bonus could work too (it's vs only 1 opponent at a time, and limited in uses per day). One could also think about Barbarian Rage going over the 26 ability cap (assuming it's not just a 1-level Barb dip just for that).
Separately, I do think the cap on to-hit is not the most important one, since between a PC with +40 to-hit and 20 average damage, and one with +30 to-hit and 200 average damage, the latter is clearly more potent. On the upside, damage is easy to solve for a DM (just increase foes' HP), as long as some PCs don't completely outshine others. I would also like to be able to continue using a Martial Tradition (so, 4 Sphere of Might talents at most).
Funny, I'm also working on a Gathlain - been a long while since I played one. Different flavour and different classes, though.
GM_Panic, I can help with sheet reviews, but I'd wait until after selections - less work this way.
Will the game be focused on exploration? Or more on combat? Will social encounters play a part?
Nice to see this restart! A couple of questions: 1/ I'm not sure what you mean by
2/
Do we get 1 feats per level for each side, plus the 3 Mythic feats "as usual", or 1 normal feat per level + 1 Mythic feat per level?
Rolling - uh, forgot it was dice, not roll:
Rolling:
Checking in - GM Panic, are you still up for this?
Taking a hard look at my workload (and "familial" load), and other commitments, I don't think I can keep up this pace, so sadly I'll have to withdraw. Have a great game!
Musing out loud: would you be open to a Changeling gaining an Aberrant dragonmark?
I'm not sure I'd take this direction, but I thought I'd see what you think.
1/ Starting level isn't mentioned, so I assume it's 1. 2/ Eberron changelings are very different from PF changelings; we'd stick to the former? Do you have a source for PFified Eberron races? (PF races are overall stronger than 3.5E races)
3/ What would the expected posting rate be? 4/ Do you any starting plot in mind, or would it be built with the players? Would it lean towards exploration, investigation, intrigue, combat, ...?
My advice would be to not start using Spheres in a gestalt mythic campaign, because the setup is crunchy enough as it is. However, if you want to give it a spin, you could try a Sphere archetype for a core class - they are listed on the front page
Taking Shadow Boxer Unchained Monk as an example:
I'm going Spherecaster, but it's fairly close to Archmage.
How do you get SM IV and not III, Fury?
GM, I believe you missed those questions:
I'm currently working on the Knave of Hearts (Eliciter 6 || Arcanist 1/Prodigy 5). He has posters with his face on it, and in big letters "DO NOT TRUST HIM!He will: steal your heart steal your wife steal your life." But of course these are gross exaggerations, and anyway he can shapeshift so the picture is always wrong... (Mechanically he's not really a thief, but this is flavour. He is tricksy, so that's the source of the slander...)
1/ Are Mythic Traditions allowed? (with potential veto, of course)
2/ If you're feeling generous, a bonus feat or two would be appreciated. :) It's hard to support 2 sides of gestalt with the normal feat allocation. (You can't fault me for asking, surely? ;-)) 3/ Do we have 1 Favored Class Bonus, or 1 per "side" of the gestalt? I've seen DMs handle it both ways.
If I may make a follow-up suggestion :), I'd rather you gave the same amount to everybody; 30k sound good. I'm already 4-5 attribute points behind after a mediocre roll, which is OK, but I'd rather not roll gold and risk getting shafted there too.Additional question:
I really like the premise! Mythic can be a handful, but I've always wanted to try precisely what you're doing, high Mythic at a low-ish level.
If I may make a suggestion, I'd suggest lowering the starting wealth, which seems out of balance with the rest of the setup and risks overshadowing class/mythic abilities. mythic classes 1/ What are Mythic classes? I've only got a little experience with Mythic. I assume you're not talking about Mythic Paths. 2/ Are we limited to 2 classes total, one on each side, or can we multiclass? Feats: As Class {each side of Gestalt/race/level} 3/ Does this mean we get a/ standard PF feat progression, orb/ double the standard progression, i.e. 2 feats at level 1, 3, 5...? 4/ Would you allow the Polished Dark sphere? It's an update to the Dark sphere, but since the original publisher doesn't do Spheres content anymore, they can't simply replace the existing one.
Good to know you're hale!! And sorry to hear about the family health scare. Take all the time you need - RL first, always.
My money is on demotivation or mental health issues... but of course speculation won't get us far. I actually kinda expected the game not to work out, since in my experience DMs launching 2 games back to back don't keep up for long (on average), even more so when these games are high-crunch. But one always hopes! And the DM reminds me of another, on another board, who disappeared in similar abrupt fashion (and was also offering a Spheres game). Down to the playtest he likes to make with not-yet-selected PCs, which I haven't seen many DMs do, since it's bound to be very time-intensive. Whether or not they're one and the same, they do offer very enticing campaigns! Still, I don't mind all this since I had fun making Léonie :-D, and I got to dive into the Tinker sphere. I do hope I get to play Zeitgeist some day (*pokes Chris* ;-)).
The DM hasn't been on in a little while, it seems (except if some of you received PMs?). I hope they're OK, and that this awesome-looking campaign will proceed.
Ooh, is this still running by any chance? I love me some Eberron, and spy stuff sounds fantastic - right up my alley. :)
Yes, you get a talent that you can spend either on acquiring that Sphere, or on getting a talent from that Sphere if you already possess the base Sphere talent.
@crisichild: Given your low CL, the Spell Attack damage is pretty low. I'd recommend either focusing on Brutal Strike (getting a way to recover your focus more easily, to get the extra damage every round) OR upping your Destruction CL (via the Gift for Magic trait and/or the Focused Blast Type Group feat - on the Destruction page) to make the Spell Attack worth it. Lucky for you I freed you a feat! ;) Vital Strike is indeed a good choice with a big weapon like yours. As you may already know, it won't multiply bonus damage like the Spell Attack dice. @Violant: Swashbuckler, Rogue, etc... are fine. Arcanist / Alchemist / Investigator cannot use their vancian extracts / spells and so must use Sphere archetypes or a core archetype that trades away the vancian stuff.
Your base concentration is CL + Int = +7 Correction: base is MSB + Int = +10, my bad. @Saashaa: how familiar are you with Spheres? The casting stat is chosen as part of your casting tradition, it can be Int, Wis or Cha as you wish.
@Crisischild: I think I see a small error regarding gestalt rules.
Also note that Brutal Strike and Spell Attack are both special attack actions, so you can't use both at the same time.
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