insorrow's page

Andius, those are mechanics, not functions.

So for example, I feel like a have a pretty good handle on the functional aspect of time based skilling: no need to macro in a corner, even increase in skills over time so there is parity based on time, etc. Functionally I think this means you're freed from grinding to be able to play different styles--the function of time-based skilling is to remove grinding.

I think I also understand the function of archetypes--instead of a game designed pressure to skill up a particular template to be competitive solo in PVP, there's a design pressure to stick within your archetype, and find your competitive advantage in synergistic grouping.

What are the functional implications of the other mechanics you've listed? Combat not being manual aim--what does that mean functionally for the game experience? Why is that important?

ok just to clear a few things . darkfall has a use-skilling and a time-skilling mixed approach .they changed it , sometime down the road. you can use a fireball to skill it , or you can meditate the skill offline .I think the benefit to their system is that the player has to log in and play ,in order to find the funds to spend in meditation ,keeping the world alive. goblinworks system has the benefit that you can easily play pathfinder without pressure to log in as a second mmo , or as someone who does not have much time.in darkfall the person who fights ingame for 8 hours and meditates offline for 16 ,will eventually get a better toon ,than the person who fights for 2 and meditates for 22.therefore there will be people with toon advantage .goblinworks system makes sure that there are no such people.

darkfall 2.0 made another shift (towards goblinworks approach really) .you will choose a role (mage -healer- skirmisher- warrior) and skill-up the role. you can change if you wish ,but you can only be one role at any single time, this way a noob warrior is no different than a veteran warrior , but the veteran can also choose to be a mage tomorrow and a healer next week etc.I think the system goblinworks has in place is more elegant really ,plus it has more roles. in everyday pvp etc ,both systems will play in a similar way .I think goblinworks having experience with the pen and paper version of the game ,will make sure their archetypes are properly balanced .i do not hold my breath for aventurine at least at launch .

combat being manual-aim is a huge difference .i am in favor of more action-oriented combat and i have pointed this out in this forum a while ago.so my opinion is biased .if you think that you can enjoy an mmo ,that plays like gears of war then go ahead and try darkfall. if you enjoy a slower more typical (some may call it tactical ) approach ,then you will enjoy the combat of pathfinder online .

@ patrick and orthos. I am a huge advocate of open world pvp .this is one of the few games that features this. But i honestly cannot see where people get the idea that there will be no pve .

it is clearly stated in the blogs that you can find instanced pve .a scout searches for "the troll caves" and once the party is inside they will clear "their" cave.No pvp can ruin your dungeon crawling .

it is also stated that there will be high security areas ,it will be highly unlikely that you die there.

even in the wilderness , people can feel "safe" .usually the good and established guilds protect their team members if they contribute to the team. if you want to kill a dragon ( who does not hide just outside a highly protected city) , you have to go to a remote region ,that a guild controls. you will clear your end game pve content to get dragonscales .At the same time a pvp group of guildmates that enjoy pvp , fights at the borders of your region to keep away any invaders .

they keep you safe to fight the dragon and you keep them well equipped by providing the guild with dragonscales .A person that is good in pve will be of value. if you can kill the dragon fast then the pvp group will have to spend less time protecting you etc. if you are a good scout ,you will be of value since you can find the dragon lair faster , if you are a good armorsmith you will be of value since you can craft the dragonscale armor. this makes a small community where you know people and trust people .you do what you like they do what they like and the guild prospers .

With all due respect, this is pretty harsh, and frankly quite unfair. It seems to me to demonstrate precisely the attitude which causes the concerns I have about PvP...namely "I can kill you ha ha and I will again and again just because I feel like it ha ha and if you don't like it, go play WoW hardy har har".

this is a sandbox mmo .

sandbox is defined by the amount of freedom you give to the players.
the more freedom the more content they can create with their imagination
there is a huge difference between dieing in pvp and griefing.

lets talk in game terms.

there is a swamp where a "valuable" flower grows .
you want to be an alchemist.I want to be a bandit.
on your way back from the swamp i kill you and you lose all of the flowers you gathered. you can

-cry at the forums and rage quit then go back to wow
-call some friends from the alchemist guild and ask for protection/form a caravan and go to the swamp prepared
-pay a bounty on my head so that some paladin/hero guy kills me for you and i no longer raid the road to the swamp
- contact me and ask for protection so that you send me 5 flowers a month and i never attack you again while you are doing business at the swamp
-join our gang and become the alchemist of the bandits ,where you help us kill other alchemists by making potions and poisons for us.you pretty much have a monopoly of the flower and we all become filthy rich

that was the sandbox approach.each of those options (besides going back to wow) was pretty much an adventure and that was a game i would like to play.

now for the "user friendly" , "wider audience approach" ,you can

turn off the consensual pvp flag, and walk in the swamp with an unreasonable invulnerability bubble around you .where you gather in "peace" and enjoy the "content " (as if the content is gathering flowers and avoiding human interaction).

maybe you would care to explain why was the flower valuable in case no2, since anyone can go to the swamp and get it?
why do you play a massive multiplayer game ,if the content you want is to gather flowers avoiding contact with any other player?
maybe your idea of human interaction is to press the "looking for group" button where you and 3 others teleport to the swamp and fight a giant mosquito in order to be rewarded with a "valuable" flower for your "deed of valor"

i only have one question for the pve crowd (aka carebears ,diminishing how it may sound)

why do you play MMORPGs ?As far as i am concerned it means massively multiplayer online role playing game.

massively multiplayer , massively , mass .

if you can play for 2 hours a month ,buy skyrim

if you want to play solo at off hours , buy skyrim

if you want to play in co-op mode with 3 friends fighting the scripted AI
buy wow

if you want to chat with your friends and click at plants etc , i heard farm ville does that.

not all shoes fit all feet.

the point is there are a lot of games out there .the mmo genre was made in an attempt to have games that feel like a world .it is about immersion.

mmo is not co-op.it is not an irc channel either .many people come from wow or similar "mmo" games unable to understand probably what it means

-mmo
-sandbox
-open world

and they try to change the game to fit their views.I hope goblinworks can deliver an AAA quality sandbox mmo , so that i can play and enjoy the risks and the adventures.The rest of the people can buy wow , i heard it is pretty consensual and convenient and user friendly .you can play 30 minutes a day , do your daily quests , and join the "i found you some friends" raid on weekend. you collect "high five" badges and at the end you get a shiny epix tinfoil hat. thank you