aobst128's page

When I run this game later this year, I'm tempted to go with automatic bonus progression but I think that might be significantly more potent in this system considering area weapons and the multi-arm ancestries.

Much of the interesting builds I can think of unfortunately would require the equivalent of automatic bonus progression.

A ranged build focused on your various solar flair abilities paired with an area weapon would be cool.

Just having the option to be a switch hitter in general could be a selling point but there's no way to share crystals. Other weapon classes could pull it off with the upgrade duplication thing but I don't think that works for solarian even if you hold your solar flare. Different terms for it's upgrades. If ever they errata this class, they ought to share upgrades with their granted weapons

Stuff with specific and useful abilities and spells are what I look for in summons. Like the kanya and their +2 on courageous anthem is a standout one for summon celestial.

Another fun combo is sure footed with giant barbarian archetype.

My choice for multiclass would be wood kineticist for timber sentinel and pick up the die upgrade for shields. add even more hp pools to the fight lol.

I feel with the passive resistance you get all the time, you'll be able to tank more damage over time regardless of that particular nerf to intercept but it does leave it feeling a bit weak in a vacuum

It's more of a situational tool which I think is reasonably balanced with the rest of the kit. It becomes a lot more reliable at lvl 7 when you can shield block the damage from intercept

shroudb wrote:

From the little I've seen, the main offensive capabilities of Guardians are against those who's ignore your Taunt.

So it seems counterproductive to try to build without it.

While I'm at it, if the GM (almost) never makes attacks that don't include the guardian, don't these punishing feats end up being a bit useless?

Because the punishment for attacking others without including the guardian is already quite high by default, and in roleplay terms, it probably means the enemy will hate the guardian a lot and will focus on it. Won't this mean that most of the punishing feats almost never have their requirements met?

Conceptually, it's a cool idea. But I can't really see it being used in practice except by GMs who attack randomly.

Well the purpose of those punishing abilities is in part to encourage being targeted along with your taunt. I imagine your taunt alone might not be quite enough to keep enemies away from your allies when you're still at +2/4 AC compared to your allies with the penalty.

Classic rock and a hard place scenario, punishing enemies whichever choice they make.

Bummer that defensive swap on commander isn't also a guardian option. It would allow you to more proactively use your AC to defend your allies. I see that being a popular multiclass since when applicable, it's just better than intercept.

Edit: technically it would turn off your taunt benefits like off guard since they're now targeting you

I like the balance they struck with its offense and defense on its chassis. Delayed weapon specialization is a much easier pill to swallow than delayed accuracy

I do like the idea that an exemplar spark is like the martial equivalent of a divine sorcerer. Heritage is even one of the suggested origins.

Given the strength of composition cantrips on their own, I imagine a wave casting martial bard would be pretty potent. Would be cool to see

Animist has a unique spellshape feat called grasping spirit spell which covers the use cases of reach spell. It's unfortunately a level 2 feat so you can't take it with natural ambition

You can take spirit familiar with natural ambition though.

That is the cannon reason for exemplars but it shouldn't take a lot of legwork to adapt its flavor to a different origin. Perhaps they got their spark from a different long gone deity.

It could also be that god magic is strange and some of it went back in time

Seems cut and dry to me. Can clauses are pretty sturdy in this system.

But does she fight, slaughter, and leave orphans in her wake for a cause or simply for the glitter of gold? If it's the later, she might find herself facing the vengeance of some of her victims one day and death might not be as kind as it has been before...

Yeah I feel like some of the themes are conflicted. She refuses the lessons of harnessing her anger and aggression but ends up becoming monsterous anyways. She fights for the helpless but is also cruel and kills for money. Maybe that's supposed to be part of the tragedy but I'm not feeling it. She's kinda just a hypocrite

Divine mysteries page 287

The initial revelation spell for the Blight mystery, Ulcerous Canker most likely has inaccurate scaling

Really fun spell. I'll add that you can move allies out of AOEs before you cast them

A metal kineticist with plate in treasure can make all their abilities plated in gold. Throw in earth and you could be blasting with gemstones as well. Could be a fun concept for a hypothetically rich character who literally throws money at his problems. And it works

I appreciate the wand rating in your guide too. It's definitely underrated. I've gotten some good use out of it. A 60ft reflex effect at base has its benefits over cantrips you can get through multiclassing. Then adept with its 120ft and easy access to persistent damage puts it in a really comfortable position for high charisma builds.

Considering that scroll thaumaturgy is one of the better first level options, I don't get why people would be arguing against casting in general.

I fully agree. When it comes to using your actions, you don't have to commit to just one thing or another. You use what's useful and having spells is useful for every class

I'll try to put something together with the scribe tools but I wanted to share some basic ideas here first.

My main goal is to divorce the magus and spellstrike from a strict dpr role, make it less clunky and more fluid which will hopefully make it more fun to play.

The major change to accomplish that is simplifying spellstrike. It will be simple action compression. For 2 actions, you can strike and cast a 1 or 2 action spell or vice versa, full stop. No recharging. At base, this is very similar to what summoner can do with act together which is one of its biggest strengths. That efficiency will be mirrored with spellstrike.

This will open up the power budget I believe to make the subclasses more interesting and powerful. With base spellstrike simplified, it's a good foundation to add unique stuff on top of it. Rather than through feats, spellstrike will have adjustments and boons from level one based on the subclass.

I'm not sure what to do with cascade honestly. That one is still an enigma.

You also have access to false vitality. Bones is fairly good at sustaining itself so this choice isn't something to be too worried about imo.

Just look out for potential void damage. Not sure how common that'll be in that AP.

In this characters case, being a bones oracle has some temp hp through soul siphon and damage resistance through armor of bones so you can afford to draw some enemy attackers attention. Carry a shield around and you can be reasonably tanky when you need to be

Powers128 wrote:

Bluemagetim wrote:

Powers128 wrote:

That would mean similar things like kineticist abilities that add runes to strikes work similarly right?

I wouldn't count the shock rune from conductive sphere against item rune limits for example.

But not because of the blessed armament clarification.
I just dont apply item limits to class abilities in general unless the ability says to.

Well the unfortunate thing about that is that there's was a society ruling on conductive sphere some time ago and they had it count towards your max. The clarification in this errata could be the precedent needed to avoid that unfortunate ruling.

Yeah that wouldn't have been how I would have ruled the ability.

When I GM and our table in general just wouldn’t think to limit the ability when it doesn’t say to.

Especially with Kindle inner flames, which would get worse when it scales with that kind of ruling

Since they changed the wording, it's not unreasonable to assume they changed the effect along with it. It's a reasonable thing that paizo decided to clarify.

What's weird is assuming everyone who disagreed with you in the past was doing it in bad faith.

I really like the sticky tank build with fetching bangles, scar of the survivor, Barrow's edge, and the proud epithet. It's probably the best internal synergy the class has, and makes destined victory a lot better.

As far as archetypes go for exemplar, I like alchemist or herbalist for horn of plenty builds. With extra free resources and the radiant epithet, you can be a pretty convincing healer.

The main benefit is act together. With it you effectively have 4 actions per turn. You just can't combine a 2 action activity with another 2 action activity.

It's also better to see the summoner and eidolon as the same PC, rather than a PC with a minion. It's one character that occupies 2 spaces with a lot of versatility in the actions you can take thanks to act together. Plus they have different stat arrays so you have versatility in how effective you are with your skills.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

blasts do terrible damage. They are the worst. I stop using them usually after the first few levels because the feel so terrible to use.

I mean, Elemental Blasts are basically like using a crossbow without the whole "need to spend actions reloading" thing. The damage isn't *terrible* if it's a changeup sort of thing. Like if you use a 2-action impulse that's not overflow, it's "why not" damage.

I hate them. They feel terrible. I almost always activate a stance when I activate my aura. Stances go down when the aura goes down with overflow, so I have to activate them again when I activate the aura. Far better use of my actions.

I would have rather had the blasts do martial weapon damage and be customizable with runes. Using them feels like some throwaway ability you're using because you have nothing else.

But do you never use 2-action non-overflow impulses? There are plenty of good ones- Flying Flame, Timber Sentinel, Sand Snatcher, Tumbling Lumber, Molten Wire, Conductive Sphere, Ignite the Sun, Cyclonic Ascent, Furnace Form, Spike Skin, etc.

Some Kineticists will overflow somewhat infrequently, so the need to turn their auras back on is minimal.

Problem Is, most offensive two actions non overload impulses are terrible. Flying flame Is literally cantrip damage, lumber thingy Is a literal meme that server no purpouse, Timber sentinel Is broken but It's not the average thing.

Spikeskin, fornace form etc are all setup, therefore you cast them Just once (preferrably outside of combat).
The kineticist, especially Fire, needs to keep his cycle going, and that cycle almost Always requires an overflow

The reason to overflow for fire is if you can hit more targets than what a flying flame could hit or if you want to stay at range. Otherwise, it's better to keep your aura active alongside thermal nimbus for best damage.

You also have to consider the utility these non overflow impulses offer. Flying flame for example is the friendliest AOE in terms of avoiding allies with it. That reliability in positioning adds to its damage since there's more opportunities to use it in a brawl. "Literally cantrip damage" is not accurate either. Cantrips that can hit more than one target are all d4 or d8(that scale with +2 spell ranks.) Flying flame scales with a d6 or d8 every rank with the impulse junction. D8s are double what a multi target cantrip scales like.

Yeah harbinger and Palatine detective are very hungry for those archetype feats.

I doubt they're intentionally designed that way for use in free archetype but maybe it's like a subconscious thing.

It's also got utility as a body blocker at later levels as well as just having another body to flank with.

I do wish it had some more stats other than being immune to fire though. Like dealing a bit of damage to adjacent enemy strikers. Weirdly enough, I think you can have it use furnace form to give it that which seems very redundant for a thing already made entirely out of flames lol.

It's not that bad. It's fast and you can use it to diversify your impulse positioning. It's a lot better once you can sustain it for free though. Then it's like having a quickened stride.

I think you can have it teleport with walk through the conflagration too and/or teleport to each other since you're both sources of fire.

I really love all the niche complexities that are possible. Like the desert winds + two element infusion with the fire aura junction to add a truck-ton of bonus damage to your blasts

Or the safe elements + thermal nimbus + consume power to consume your own fire damage to boost your metal impulses.

Or another one I found earlier in the highest level wood summon you can have with fearsome familiar: the Twins of Rowan which have a very powerful aura effect that benefits creatures with the elemental and wood traits which you can gain with elemental apotheosis one level later after gaining access to the twins.

Love this stuff.

Powers128 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Powers128 wrote:

The one thing that still really bugs me is chain infusion. It baffles me. I can't think of a single reasonable application for it.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with how the class is put together

I guess if you want to specifically Strike three or more people? Then you've at least got action compression. I don't know if you need line-of-sight to where your blast goes, I'd assume so, or else I'd say you could hit someone and then shoot your blast around a corner. I'm probably thinking that because that's how the PF1E kineticist's Chain ability went.

The issue is you have to land a -5 and -10 blast to get any value out of the actions you spend. Most of the time you break even and sometimes you loose an action if you miss the first blast.

If the hit requirement was removed or the multiple attack penalty was adjusted it would be a lot more interesting

Personally I think the best way to fix it is to make it a free action, so someone with it just automatically chains when they cast EB. If the devs are worried about over use, give it the Flourish trait. Though I don't think it really needs it, because MAP is the real limitation that's going to prevent 4,5,6+ hits a turn.

That would be cool too

Powers128 wrote:

The one thing that still really bugs me is chain infusion. It baffles me. I can't think of a single reasonable application for it.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with how the class is put together

I guess if you want to specifically Strike three or more people? Then you've at least got action compression. I don't know if you need line-of-sight to where your blast goes, I'd assume so, or else I'd say you could hit someone and then shoot your blast around a corner. I'm probably thinking that because that's how the PF1E kineticist's Chain ability went.

The issue is you have to land a -5 and -10 blast to get any value out of the actions you spend. Most of the time you break even and sometimes you loose an action if you miss the first blast.

If the hit requirement was removed or the multiple attack penalty was adjusted it would be a lot more interesting

The one thing that still really bugs me is chain infusion. It baffles me. I can't think of a single reasonable application for it.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with how the class is put together

Powers128 wrote:

I've had the good fortune of playing a dual class fire kineticist and flames Oracle for the combo in question. I haven't had the chance to pull it off yet. It is hard to do turn one.

Assuming you go late in initiative and there's enemies in your aura when you begin your turn, it would be good I imagine. Otherwise, it's a lot more applicable once you get aura shaping with thermal nimbus.

I am playing a barbarian earth elemental/kineticist earth and fire. Boy, it is absolutely brutal. DMs should not allow it. It is sickening.

The defensive and buff earth powers are crazy powerful on a barbarian as is Con as main stat.

I also made a skeleton metal and fire kineticist. Just for the fun of the appearance. It's pretty effective and fun.

Kineticists don't do the best damage, but they can shine big in AOE fights with nearly every attack AOE. The single target fights are a little lacking, but you have to give somewhere. Unlimited flight is nice and ferrous body unlimited sustain too.

It's a very effective, well built class with lots of worthwhile feats and class features. One of the better designed classes.

But they definitely give up something in single target damage for constantly good AOE and versatile abilities.

Oh yeah it's good. My original concept was built for legacy Oracle and the convenient thing was I didn't need to take divine access for fire damage since that was covered by the kineticist half lol.

Flying flame is my favorite area effect in the game. A maneuverable line is such a cool way to balance dealing damage with avoiding friendly fire. It also happens to be the best tool to trigger incendiary aura before you get thermal nimbus if you go that route.

I hope to get to 14th level so I can pull off the eternal torch/walk through the conflagration combo. My only fear is that the new Oracle mechanics might overshadow the kineticist with just how much fuel it has.

You know, with our omens lost, and our prophecies broken, maybe certain sects of pharasmins have become desperate in their attempts at cosmic order.

A whispered half prophecy of the deaths of a party sounds like an awesome campaign with pharasmin extremists as the baddies.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

The preferences of these deities exist to frame their role in stories, not to constrict player agency. If your GM is throwing Achaekek at you because you want to take the Test of the Starstone, that's a GM problem not a setting problem.

Granted, there'd be a lot less corpses surrounding the starstone if it was without mythic challenge.

Yeah I feel like the starstone kinda takes care of acharekek's job 99 percent of the time anyways if he cares at all about the starstone.

Ah, I was interpolating from Groteus's 2e entry. Figured a god of the end times would naturally be against a god trying their best to ward off the end times lol.

So rovugug and the black hole.

I think there's some gods who don't see her as an ally. I imagine someone like Groteus hates her guts quite a lot, although it's hard to pin down his goals exactly. If he wants existence to end, it makes sense for him to be aligned against Pharasma.

Maybe rovugug and the aforementioned sentient black hole too. Anyone who advocates for the complete destruction of all things.

I don't recall if there exists deities within the maelstrom but those guys too

Powers128 wrote:

I'm pretty sure Hell still does a lot of torturing of petitioners. That's how devils are created. Petitioners still exist as "individuals" at least for a while before their essence is absorbed into their plane. From what I understand that's how it is for the rest of the planes too. In places like Elysium, you can choose to retain much of your original identity too I believe.

It's my understanding that individuals who get tortured in Hell in the afterlife are those who end up there because Hell has a contractual claim on them, which is a different process than going through Pharasma's judgment.

It's been a while since I read Planar Adventures (my copy moved to a different state) but my recollection is that only truly exceptional souls maintain any "sense-of-self" after judgement. Some souls will become building-blocks that will eventually become some kind of outsider, who might have visions of a past life, but they don't necessarily feel any commonality with that person.

Yeah eventually souls will meld into the essence of their plane but there's a process to it. Like heaven has you climb a mountain and even after that, it's a while before petitioners are chosen to become Archons. The "self" is lost over time. Faster in some places, slower in others. Hell might just be very quickly. Ordered evil and tyranny tend to be the ideological enemy of free will and individualism whereas in Elysium, those metaphysical concepts are the very foundations of the plane so it makes sense for their petitioners to embody them.

Black holes are also fundamentally tied to the laws of reality, dreadfully powerful, and their influence is physically unavoidable but they have the good taste to not demand worship and obeisance from mortals.

I think one of the new gods that were added post Godsrain is a sentient black hole lol

Trip.H wrote:

Don't want your soul to go to the abyss after all that impulsive cannibalism? Just spurn the help of the gods and commit all those heinous acts of violence yourself! Who knew avoiding damnation was that easy, wow.

The thing that I think you're really missing is that in Pathfinder there's no continuity of identity or memory after your soul-stuff gets sent off to another plane. You don't go to Hell to be tortured, you just become some of the quintessence out of which Hell is built, and there's no really a "you" in any meaningful sense anymore. You're not a soul that devils will torture so much as "you're part of the available material from which everything in hell, including Devils, is made out of." There might be a Devil someday down the line that's made out of essence that was once part of you, but that Devil is not you.

Like the point of mortal life in the cosmos is to sort the energy that pours out of creation's forge and use it to reinforce the outer planes against the maelstrom's influence to render everything into undifferentiated potentiality. Pharasma's less "a Tyrant that sends you to some eternal punishment" and more "in charge of managing the Universe's wastewater." Things die, their soul-stuff will float down the river of souls to the reservoir at the Boneyard, where she processes it and sends it off to where it belongs, or at least where it can do some good/less harm.

I'm pretty sure Hell still does a lot of torturing of petitioners. That's how devils are created. Petitioners still exist as "individuals" at least for a while before their essence is absorbed into their plane. From what I understand that's how it is for the rest of the planes too. In places like Elysium, you can choose to retain much of your original identity too I believe.

That does seem weird for Pharasma to do. Duskwalkers seem to at least have some overarching reason for existing but a straightforward resurrection like that is off brand lol

Imagine your eternal job in the afterlife is to judge the moral actions of grass.

Some psychopomps go AWOL. This might be one of the reasons lmao.

Pharasma works in mysterious ways, or sometimes there's just accidents like with the lore on phantoms.

One interpretation I fancy is that when making her judgement, the universe is not exempt from her decision on where you'll end up. Sometimes souls just need some extra time to cook lol

The dissolution of all reality I think. Eventually anyways. The planes are made of soul stuff and without order to them, they'll fall to the maelstrom.

R3st8 wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Pharasma respects atheists. Per the PF1 Planar Adventures book, she will allow anybody who rejects the legitimacy of her judgement the opportunity to just wait out eternity in a quiet spot in the boneyard.

You could also just choose to be judged and become part of the foundation of some plane or another. She will respect your choice either way.

That is a strange definition of respect. If she genuinely respects these souls, then she should allow them to return home.

Huh? "Brought back to life by Pharasma" is so top-of-the-list of things Rahadoum isn't on board with that it has two books about it.

Re: Duskwalkers

Pharasma does resurrect people. Just very occasionally.

She sometimes does send people home as a duskwalker. I always liked the ironic use of these guys. To keep the balance of life and death, Pharasma bends the rules a bit sometimes.

That's weird. Never realized some combo weapons are level 0 and some are level 1. Also rules out the hammer gun, which is the second best strength oriented combo weapon. Bummer.