Wurner's page

From There Must Be 50 Ways... To Game Reputation

For a future PFOwiki:

"Reputation: much like lactose intolerance, reputation limits how much of a good thing you can have before you face serious quality-of-life-impairing consequences. Other players are likely to shun overindulged characters due to the effects they have on their surroundings, referred to by some as "toxic atmosphere"."

I've posted 645 times but the best I've been able to produce is apparently a fart joke -.-

I hear that a group of people are making changes to the game code, adding and changing features as they see fit and not just now and then, it's on a regular basis! WHY IS NOBODY DOING ANYTHING TO PREVENT THIS??!!? Am I the only one worrying about this?

That's quite an elaborate design for a bird bath.

Is it me more is SENSOU making Lawful Evil look like the good guys in this?

Both groups are accusing the other group of bad behavior. Kind of hard to tell which one, if either, is right and which one, if either, is wrong. Could be a mutual misunderstanding, could be slander, could be valid accusations - I wouldn't know.

OH HELL NO!!!!!

Crowdforging is for ALL PLAYERS.

ALL PLAYERS!

ALL PLAYERS!

I like my settlement leader, but I will urge GW to freaking ignore ANY attempt to create self selected SPOKESMEN for crowdforging.

You get to crowdforge the Settlement Window... THAT'S ALL.

The rest of the game belongs to ALL OF US, and ALL OF US are going to crowdforge it.

While I agree with most of what you say, I don't mind if the settlement leaders have a little tête à tête and bring forward suggestions - the more channels to provide good feedback the better.

In my view, it's just a bunch of players discussing the game - they just happen to be settlement leaders.

Let all the tanners or monster hunters or PvP enthusiasts get together and discuss the game too if they want to, why not? As long as one group of players gets no special treatment or labelled line of communication with the devs (which I think is what you were opposing - and I agree)

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

My days of remembering some details of European history are far behind me. Did Switzerland and Sweden colonize other lands?

Sweden did. Delaware is a former Swedish colony. See: Swedish overseas colonies and Swedish colonization of the Americas.

Not sure about Switzerland though. :/

The neutrality policy was successively implemented during the 19th century, the same time period in which Sweden ceded their last colonies.

Before then, Sweden was an active and aggressive military actor in Europe (up until the conclusion of the Napoleonic Wars).

I bet Ishmael got stranded when all the rivers dried up.

Assuming you are able to check off every object on the list except the Mac client, are you going to hold off EE until you have that client as well?

To my limited understanding, it seems the server stuff and the Mac client are the things that could potentially take a lot of time to get done.

I found out about Terraria a week ago, been playing it every spare moment since and now I see pixel sprites and landscapes whenever I close my eyes 0.o

I absolutely wouldn't mind if some more spells and abilities were unavailable at the start. Like if Fireball required intelligence 12 or a certain "[feat] 3" to learn for example.

1 - the start would be less overwhelming for new players if the number of trainable abilities was reduced

2 - it would feel more like PnP where you get more powerful spells and abilities at higher levels, not just greater effect from the spells you already had at lvl. 1.

One way of showing "community" is to let players be the in game "actors". Get on ventrilo or skype with a bunch of players (maybe those who bought the alpha package?) who do streaming (unless you're able to ride piggy back with dev magic), tell them what you want to see and then show their name in the video.

For example, footage of someone killing a goblin and then harvesting a nature node, at the bottom of the screen the forum avatar from here is shown as well as "[forum name], crowdforger/kickstarter backer since 2012" or something like that (I'm thinking of the way you have some text at the bottom of the TV screen during news, like so.)

Wurner wrote:

Ha! Well played but I wasn't thinking of that one.

"A beta test by any other name would smell of Cheetos."

Close enough! I think my work here is done. *makes a dramatic escape*

Ha! Well played but I wasn't thinking of that one.

Can it really be over before someone provides that one Shakespeare quote though?

Sometimes when discussing PFO, I can sympathize with this camel salesman. People are expecting the game and its development process to be something it is not*. It's a very good camel but it's not a jetplane, so sorry, no it's incapable of flight.

(*: not that I presume to actually know what it is/will be but out of what it is now, I see potential for it to become something I could like and enjoy.)

Good points from Cheatle, if I understand him correctly.

If we already had everything that Bluddwolf is asking about, we wouldn't need the towers. The towers are there to provide something until such a time when we have something better.

I wouldn't have followed PFO or spent money on it if not for the great PvP plans but I am prepared to start playing without much of it. With that being said, the more of the good stuff they can squeeze in, and the sooner they can do it, the better.

I would welcome a detailed post or even a blog about the future for PvP-related mechanics. Maybe it is too early to provide a step-by-step plan for it though if there is a boatload of other things to go through first.

They came out of the darkness, wrapped in the shadows as others wear coats. As the guardsman's vigilance faded into a yawn and he, but for a short moment, turned his back - that was when the rogues struck! (the metal node)

I haven't tried LiF myself but looking at the forum over at mmorpg.com and the user reviews on Steam, well, to put it mildly it's pretty clear that a lot of people and players are seeing plenty of problems with that game, the qualifications of its developers, the community management and marketing practices.

I'm withholding judgement since I lack personal experience with that game but I think it can be valuable to see that both here and there people see completely different things when looking at the same product.

How many of the adjacent hexes had the same escalation happening? Did you start at a hex in the periphery of the escalation blob or strike at the heart of it?

It would be interesting to know since the effort to wipe out the escalation is supposed to vary based on how fast it is reinforced from neighbouring hexes.

If GWs were 100% sure it'll start tomorrow, I think they'd announce it. If they were 100% sure it won't happen, I think they'd announce it.

I guess that they haven't decided yet.

Points 1-5 (in MMORPG post) can be attributed to work in progress (for now, if they persist two years from now let's talk again).

Crafting: subjective. I like it.
Skills: there will be tooltips soon.
Newbies: again - tooltips are coming. I agree it is confusing/difficult at first but having a lot depend on gear makes gear more valueable which makes crafting more valuable which, to me, is a good thing.

Doing things differently than "most" other games means that players will have to learn the new systems. It doesn't mean that the new way is bad. I think the skill system blends well with the rest of the game.

About GWs having favourites, I haven't seen it. Some people more or less consistently produce ideas that GWs like and are in line with GWs own visions however. I mean, they are more likely to pick up an idea they like than one they don't. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with who is the source of that idea. Overall I think they are sticking to their own ideas when they strongly feel something should be a certain way. It doesn't seem to me like any particular posters are able to sway them into making decisions they don't actually want to make.

The map has been updated, and we are still taking submission for Map Icons! Only 14 out of 33 Settlements have made submissions!

Give rival settlements the opportunity to provide placeholder icons for the slackers, that should provide some incentive to step up ಠ◡ಠ

Some dwarves speak Spanish: Borin the trainee "toorist" guide.

EE day one: at the Korova Milkbar Thirsty Ogre, we'll sharpen our senses before we hit the streets countryside for some good laughs and lashings of the old ultra violence.

Tabletop miniatures of new PFO characters (black starter hats not yet implemented in game)

No-one's yet proposed a good reason why Canadians would want to control the North American Loaf....

Pity? Compassion? A sense of responsibility?

Apart from recipes, some crafting materials and some other stuff, one of the main points of farming mobs is to get coin. There is no other source for coin that I know of right now. I guess the limited quests we're getting somewhere down the line will provide some coin too but the majority of it I think will come from killing mobs.

That is not saying they shouldn't drop scraps of crafting material too, I definitely want them to do that. The more interdependence and interaction between different "roles" (crafters, PvEers etc.) the better.

In other news, the website is now back to normal lightning fast update speed.

At an office near Seattle
the panicked workers prattle:
"The new goblin blog
was devoured by Zog,
don't go on the forums to tattle!"

Personally, I absolutely understand how people might feel drowned out and excluded around here. I am accustomed to forum communities and honestly feel that this one is more open than most, but that isn't going to be the case for everyone.

I like to think of myself as a player who contributes, though I do not typically end up making posts daily. However, it is easy to feel ignored, particularly when nobody bothers to respond to your post(s). I actually joked about this exact thing in a thread somewhere (I don't recall exactly which one) when I had posted once or twice - rather thoughtfully, in my opinion - and later joked that everyone was ignoring me because I wasn't being aggressive enough. (Amusingly, that post did get a response.)

This doesn't hurt my feelings, but it strikes me as a good example of the kind of thing that leads to people feeling shouted down/drown out.

I had several similar experiences, especially from fast moving threads (where it's very understandable some posts don't register). Think I get more attention with this new avatar though XD

Wurner wrote:

I think many things will require coin: training, crafting, using the auction house, raising structures...

Hmm. It's hard to say. The last one sounds like it may have potential, but until coin can get you something basic outside of the PC realm, I would prefer to barter straight out.

You'd *think* the auction house would be the ticket, but it may take a long time for that to get working. If you need x and have y, why sell y for coin if you don't know where to get x? And if you do, why not just trade?

Even stuff like repairs would be nice. I just think there needs to be a baseline coinsink, per se, before coins have value. Or wait a long time until the auction house establishes itself. But I still think people would be better to barter than trade for coin since coin has no 'true value' yet.

I meant that I think those activities might be future coin sinks. Training costing not only XP but also coin. Crafting costing not only resources but also coin etc. Coin drained from the game.

I think many things will require coin: training, crafting, using the auction house, raising structures...

Sounds like the mobs need two aggro meters - one is "are you angry? Y/N" the other one is "suppose you're angry, who are you angry at?", with the first one being shared by an entire camp but the second one being individual.

Considering how easy it is to kill low level mobs, if drop rates remain the same as they are now I don't see much of a market for crafted starter gear. After a few hours of farming I have multiple copies of armor, weapons and implements. The time it takes to actually craft starter armor or weapons is not trivial and neither is the amount of materials needed for it. I hope the starter gear drop rate is just an alpha thing and they mostly drop "broken weapons", "broken armor" etc. in the future.

I do think it would be more satisfying to get 1/10th of a resource every fifth mob than 1 resource every fifty mobs.

Ỽօէҽժ, էհìղҟ į ʍąղąցҽժ էօ ҍմʍք մʂ ⊘.⊘1 քօìղէʂ :Ꭰ

I⃣ a⃣ l⃣ s⃣ o⃣ f⃣ o⃣ u⃣ n⃣ d⃣

a̴̡̛͇̝͈̝͓̋̐̌̓̕͝ ̴̗̬̟̪̝̲̜͖̏̈́̈́̃͒͂͗̈́̅̊̏̈͆̐̌ͅw̵̧̳͎̰̦͖͗̂̿͑̒̎̑͠e̴̬̫̼͛̉b̴̬̻̖̹̗̙̈́͆̀̌̃̃̄̔̅ṡ̸̨̝͔̯̞͌͜ ̨̦͉͎̤͎̹̖ͅi̷̢̨̘͈̗̫̤̱͖̣̳̝̺̠͂̊̉t̶̨̡̠̠͖͎͓͚̪̺̺̻͈̳̅̾͂̊̀̈́͂͂̍͜͝͠ė̸̺͋̉̿̌̇̓̄͆ ̷͉̳͔̫̟̹͚̻̗̥̹̭͕̌̒̇ẉ̴͖̙̱̫̗̈̅̉̀͌͠͠͝į̴̛̝̼͐͐̋̅̐̃̽̀͒t̸̢͍̩̹̘͙̖̩̦̱̘̖̭̫̥͌̎h̴͎̓́̽͠͝ ̴̣̲͇̺͈͙̫̀̋͐͗̓̉͆̽͝͝ͅñ̸̥͉͖̬̝̮̟̪͖̖͚̮̇̓͌̓͆̿̄̓̌͑͜͝ͅͅë̸̝̞̀̈́̓͠a̴͖̤̥̗͙̜̙̫͓̓͆̅̿̀͋̊ ̪̪͍̺͖t̶̠̲̩͖͔͇́͊͛̑͐̓̽̎́̎̓̏͘͘͜ ̷͚̺̥͍̌̎̓͆͂́̀ẗ̸̛͉͓͚́̈́̈́̉͐͐͑̾̈́͐̓̓͘ę̸͖̟͚̺̭͎͖͖̤̓͗̈̑͐͂̿̔̀̌̋͐͛x̷̫̭͙̹͌̓t̸̠̆͆ ̷̡̙̳̳̠̠̻̗͓̣̻̻̝͒͒̉̒̏͗̈́͑̽̐ͅc̵̡̳̰͈̫͉̮͍̱̦͒͒͂u̵̹̙̟̱̖͇̽͊͐̐̾̆̓̒̍̏̆̚͝s̴̈̏̍̽̽̈̿͐̐̇̿̕ ̺̔̓ͅţ̴̧̛̞͎̖͖͚͚̠̲͕͚̫̅̋͂̓̾̿̀̓̍̑̚͠ò̵̳̲͔̬̼͌͊͌̇͊̐̈́̈́̀́ͅm̴̨̢̨͎͈̜̯͖̺̼̙̪̋̀̀͊̆̈̉́͗͜ ̯͖ȋ̴͕̩̗̻͉̞̗̎̆͛̈́̈́͊͘͝͝͝z̴̜͍̜̫̖̜̀̎̈́͂̄̑̐͘͝͝ā̷̢̜̫̋͋̓̏̏̀͝t̶̩̝͔̹͓̣̠̠̬͂̇̅̐́í̶͓͜͝ ͇̥̬̳̖ö̷̢̞͖̝̟̳̜̯́̋̏͛̅͆̑̀̎͛̾͘͝͝n̵̛̞͌̏̋̑̋̚̚ ̶̛̘͕̳̔̀̇̏̌͘ò̸͚̖̖̬̳͛̽̄͜p̸͎̻̒͌̍̃̀̉͌͗̊̕͠ť̴̛̥̞̟̻͚͓̲̩̼̱̙͓̿́̈́̄̎͝͝í̵̛̑̾͐̽̌͒̓̽̿͘ ̡̡̗͕̼̰̱̯͈͖͎̻̹͍o̴͚̔̎̀̓͆̚̕͝ň̷̮̦̗͓͍̠͔̲̂̎͆͋͜s̴̡̨̡̨͙̠̩̹̩̜͈̼͉̝̓̔̌̍̊͑̚͜.̷͔̣̣̲͒̏

(✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞Lunicode ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

Padding is only required for Armor Tier 2+3, not Tier 1

That's only for heavy armor, right? I can't make Footpad's Leathers (tier 1) without Coarse Padding.

This is a unity made mmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13lkNv0zOVo excuses?

I'd say that PFO looks capable of producing a world and characters that look like that. Now PFO has a world that is HUGE and had to be produced quickly, it also needs to be able to expand when population dictates, rather than when the devs have finished crafting new areas. Makes sense we don't get hand crafted environments such as in that video.

I actually like that video example and think that PFO can reach that level and is on the way to doing so, with the exception that there will never be enough time to handcraft environments to a similar degree. (except maybe Emerald Spire, NPC settlements and such "unique" locations). The wilds can have certain hand-crafted modules that appear in several zones but I don't think procedural generation can produce such a nice result.

All in all, some more time spent on lighting, textures, models, animations etc. and we are pretty much there.

Yes. CC, gap closers, smarter leashing, more ranged mobs, perhaps mobs can also be allowed to sprint? At least wolves should be able to run a bit faster.

Anyway, those kinds of things can solve this long term. However, we are fast approaching EE. As things stand, ranged players with a minimum of experience and gear can solo most camps. That does not bode well for the initial economy - ranged adventurers will be economical power houses.

All the fine and necessary suggestions to fix this problem long term can't be implemented in a hurry. Making all ranged attacks stationary though, can be done. I don't like it but I think it is a good idea to make the OP ranged solo camp clearers a little less powerful. As a temp solution. Once people have armor, exp and weapons melee can do quite well but for the very start of EE, something should be done against the naked ranged juggernaughts.

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Moreover, I think that we need more dangerous mobs overall. Even as melee with very little training I feel pretty confident soloing groups of enemy mobs. I don't really feel the need to group up when farming mobs.

I think not being allowed to move while shooting is boring. On the other hand, being able to shoot while in full sprint is ridiculous. I'd suggest that speed slows to a walk while performing a ranged attack. Also, with longer leashes, slightly faster mobs, more snares/roots and gap closers for mobs I think we'd come a long way.

There are plenty of MMORPGS that allow ranged attacks on the move without having broken combat.

I don't know how it works but it would be strange if a higher skill prevents you from finding a type of resource.

Only commenting the last sentence

Personally, I don't think a durability of '20' is going to cut it, given the frequency of character death.

I think players will learn their limits quite quickly and not engage in fights they can't win - how careful they will be in this assessment can be affected by the number of durability counters, sure, but it can in any case balance itself so that the system doesn't degrade to everyone being naked and weaponless.

Looks like a feature to me.

Thornkeep is great, love seeing a more sprawling settlement and the layout is unique compared to the starter towns. Still some improvements to be made but it's on a good track.

If I start combat sprinting, I'm able to keep sprinting while firing my bow. It makes my life a lot easier since nothing can ever catch up, as long as there aren't any powerful ranged creatures in a group I can wipe out anything, even large camps - just sprinting and shooting.

Seems like a simple thing to fix: using a combat ability disables sprint for as long as you remain in combat.

I think having a settlement near Thornkeep will be a blessing... and a curse. It's a mixed bag.

They took away Santa Clause

The Santa Clause - In case the client has been naughty*, the provisioner retains the right to abstain from providing any presents.

Part of what I really liked about Morrowind was that you didn't have to follow the plot. Also, the plot very early on told you to go do something else, and there was a lot of 'else' to do.

Also, it didn't lock you into a "build" like Skyrim does - perks are so influential in Skyrim that they decide what your character can do, much more so than skill points. This encourages power gaming and planning your character BEFORE rather than WHILE playing the game, limits player freedom (no horizontal progression) and discourages experimentation. I hate the Skyrim character system and love the Morrowind system (except for the weird stat increases).

I'm very happy that PFO will not "lock" you into a build. That is a significant difference between PFO and Skyrim.

We already have "power" which will force players back to camp/tavern occasionally. Can't remove/bypass that system since by now people have spent good money to buy the permanent and temporary structures that restore power. Don't want to add (imo) an identical parallel system, only restored by food rather than rest.

I think the power system closes some doors when it comes to what food could do in the game. I think power in an abstract way encompasses hunger but I suppose they could maybe be split apart somehow.

Playing versions of the game with more features implemented will perhaps show some gap that a food system can fill.

Wurner wrote:

...easier for me to accept than the firearms.

I've seen more than one gaming group over the years--most of my groups in college and grad school had more than their share of biologists, chemists, and physicists--drive their GMs crazy with "okay, I buy saltpeter, charcoal, and sulphur; mix, dampen, and grind them just so", etc. Most GMs started with "okay, that doesn't work here".

To which the scientists, waiting for this, began to haul out the enumeration of all the other chemical reactions, many of them biological, but all of them vital to pretty much anything working at all in the natural world--and the universe--if gunpowder "didn't work". Arguments and much drinking usually followed.

Needless to say, that's one reason I had more than one gaming group during my educational career.

They want to play A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court campaign setting?

There's lasers & giant robots too.

Somehow, the "it's aliens" explanation makes that much easier for me to accept than the firearms.

"Pathfinder’s world of Golarion uses the rules for emerging guns" ok you're right, I didn't read carefully enough. The picture link to Thunderscape at the top of the page confused me. Sorry for questioning you Giorgio.

So, gunsmithing technology is at a mid 19th century level. Wow. I'm no subscriber to a strict stadial theory of cultural or technological evolution but that's still difficult to digest.