Tristan d'Ambrosius's page

Tristan d'Ambrosius, are you arguing that a character who has been knocked to dying 2 by a critical hit in the 1st round is best left for dead? That makes the critical-hit problem worse.

No I was arguing that your easy-peesy solution of picking up the rogue and moving and raising the shield was not so easy-peesy as you presented it.

But yes sometimes it is better to leave a down comrade down and let the the dying rules play out for a round allowing you to be proactive against the enemy before its turn comes back around

I understand that he was carrying. I was giving the dragging rules first. Or did you just skip over the rest?

Did the fighter have a weapon in hand prior to going into the cave? Without this ever occurring before how would he know to take off his back back.

The enemy can still stride to him before his next turn and he wouldn't have had the chance to raise his shield. So the enemy would have thew same chance of critting on the fighter that he had on the rogue

Could you give me a reference to these carrying rules? My players have carried other players, conscious rather than unconscious, and I have applied the Riding Sapient Creatures rules instead.

Here are dragging:

Source Player Core pg. 269

In some situations, you might drag an object or creaturerather than carry it. If you’re dragging something, treat its Bulk as half. Typically, you can drag one thing at a time, you must use both hands to do so, and you drag slowly— roughly 50 feet per minute. Use the total Bulk of what you’re dragging, for instance, if you’re dragging a sack filled with treasure, total the Bulk of everything inside.

Carrying a creature really gets into the weeds cause you would have the Bulk of the creature + the Bulk of its items + your bulk to contend with
more than like likely makeing you encumbered giving you that condition and it's negatives.

Source Player Core pg. 269 2.0
You might need to know the Bulk of a creature, especially if you need to carry someone. This table lists the typical Bulk of a creature, but the GM might adjust this number.
Creature Bulk
Size of Creature Bulk
Tiny 1
Small 3
Medium 6
Large 12
Huge 24
Gargantuan 48

Carrying heavy or unwieldy itemss is touched on here in Bulk

Bulk
Source Player Core pg. 269
Carrying especially heavy or unwieldy items can make it more difficult for you to move, as can overloading yourself with too much gear. The Bulk value of an item reflects how difficult the item is to handle, representing its size, weight, and general awkwardness. If you have a high Strength modifier, you usually don’t need to worry about Bulk unless you’re carrying numerous substantial items.

Whether like dragging if it needs 2 hands is not expressed here or in carrying held items.

Carrying Items
Source Player Core pg. 267
A character carries items in three ways: held, worn, and stowed. Held items are in your hands; a character typically has two hands, allowing them to hold an item in each hand or a single two-handed item using both hands. Worn items are tucked into pockets, belt pouches, bandoliers, weapon sheaths, and so forth, and they can be retrieved and returned relatively quickly. Stowed items are in a backpack or a similar container, and they are more difficult to access.

I would say that yes it takes 2 hands, but that is me and it corresponds to the dragging rule which makes for easy extrapolation.

In your example the fighter either carrying or dragging would have needed to either drop their weapon (for free) or stow their weapon at the cost of an action. Then either pick up the Rogue or place hands on the Rogue (an action) The either drag or carry at the negatives that I assume would happen. Thus leaving them in range of Stides from the enemy and unable to raise a shield without dropping the rogue.

My .02 cents

The rogue got to his feet, weapon still in hand, and Hid in the concealment of the blizzard. The party became better prepared to face the corpselight if it chased after tham.

So how did the rogue still hold their weapon when:

Source Player Core pg. 446 2.0
You're sleeping or have been knocked out. You can't act. You take a –4 status penalty to AC, Perception, and Reflex saves, and you have the blinded and off-guard conditions. When you gain this condition, you fall prone and drop items you're holding unless the effect states otherwise or the GM determines you're positioned so you wouldn't.

I'm not even going to talk about how when you are carrying or dragging someone you can only move 50 feet per minute making it effectively 5 feet per turn and whether that constitutes all 3 of the fighter's actions.

Or with the movement enforced how could the fighter raise his shield while moving the rogue.

It's easy to come up with your easier tactics if you are playing in the vacuum of the rules.

But hey, you do you.You're Mathmuse not Rulesmuse

I don't know how anyone playing these games would think they were made for anyone but nutty TTRPG players who like reading textbook like rules and novel-like creative work to run a game trying to simulate fantasy stories or combat games using the mind as the gaming engine.

When someone doesn't get into it, they don't want to read a bunch of rules or spend too much time on a game that feels like school to them.

But what keeps these games alive is there is this niche of humans who do like to read textbook like rules and tell stories using them or math out how to best optimize and win in combat. It's a weird hobby.

I don't care how good they make level 1 to 4 because PF2 has done it as well as any game I've seen for a TTRPG, this type of game is still only going to attract a bunch of strange people with imaginations that allow them to invest in these games to the point where they will make it past level 1 to 4 often if they like them.

Wow! Talk about Gatekeeping and badwrongfuning. And an obvious case of my opinion of the hobby is the only opinion of the hobby.

I'm glad I've only been playing since 1988 and not since the 70's so I don't think that way.

I hate reading textbooks of rules. If I'm not having fun at the beginning I don't want to stick with it. Break out a new system give me d6 Star Wars or a d10 World of Darkness.

I'm not a dabbler but if the creation system asks to invest in character through creation, like background in PF2, don't have the math at the level of creation be the most likely to take you out of the game.

If my level 1 PF2 character dies I don't want to make a new one all of it becomes wasted time. Frustrated, wasted time.

Still not a dabbler.

Which WoD do you mean?

Anyone ever noticed all the space ships seem to all be oriented in the same direction when they do those space battles? You reckon they all politely decided which way was "down"?

Probably because that's what looked best for the movie, right? I mean, right?

If I had to look in my crystal ball, I'd predict more of this in future games. Not because it's better, but because making ttrpg mechanics that are similar to MMORPG mechanics helps them appeal to a larger potential player base and the folks who already dip into both. We're already seeing some of that, with some in the player base wanting more big boss fight - i.e., raid - type encounters and a de-emphasis on noncombat encounter mechanics.

So my cloudy crystal ball sees fewer and less emphasis on "per day" and "slow mana" magic systems with their whole-session resource management concepts, and more systems where the range of spells is once per combat, a couple times per combat, and at-will fast-as-a-sword. The scene, rather than the session or the "day", will be the unit of time in which resources are managed, with full between-scene resource regeneration.

Looks at your crystal ball. Looks at D&D 4th. Looks at your crystal ball.

*Shrugs*

everyone, I get that old characters are not going to be effected. My problem is this, I have people that will bring new characters built to the 2.0 rules and not the 2.1 or re-master rules. They do NOT look at NETHYS for character build rules. They do not care what NETHYS says. How do I get this understood? PEOPLE DO NOT LOOK AT NETHYS!

I guess I'm not a person, or belonging to the subset people.

But how is that controlling it with your spirit, like you said. You control it with 2 hands.

Star Wars and The Hidden Fortress, another Akira Kurosawa movie

So like same/same

So petty

Well la-dee-da.

So not gods then

I think the background Asgardians could be pretty subtle

That's why they have to be

Based on characters created by

Not really a cliffhanger, more a seeding of potential plots. There was no "I have to tune in next episode to see how this resolves."

A third Tron movie that can't film currently

Naah all you like, it doesn't change the fact it sounds like you are making light of what is going on.

Every season of Next Generation would end on a Cliffhanger, frustrating as hell. Come to think of it most shows in those days would Cliffhanger you end of season, they saw it as a way of making sure you came back for the next one.

Not every season, 4 out of 7.

Calling it "Hollywood shenanigans" implies you think it is a bad thing.
It diminishes what is going on, making it a triviality.

Hollywood shenanigans? Really?

......I always hated when movie serials used to do this

Ah, chaos, run thy course. Asgardians are aliens. Gods need worship. Who in the MCU worships the Asgardians?

But morality and real world application on Space Opera show on Mountain channel is par for the course. Pot meet kettle.

And yet...

Just cause you don't understand that they are aliens, don't put the blame on me

Or the President in the last episode of Secret Invasion

So a a potential threat with powers like that? And from some alien to earth place? They need to leave.

Lets do the American thing and lump all aliens together and kick them off planet.

So New Asgard is full of gods from another planet who pose as a threat to earth due to their enhanced abilities?

Sounds like an extremist President would want them off planet being as the are powerful alien...gods

So are all Asgardians gods? Like every single last one of the nameless background Asgardians? Like every single one? Everyone in the ship attacked by Thanos?

I wonder what all their powers are? What are all their powers Thomas?

ASGARDIANS ARE ALIENS!!!

Le sigh

Being a God does not in and of itself preclude one from also being an alien

Vulcans have always been whatever the current plot needs them to be (see Journey to Babel, Amok Time, Star Trek The Motion Picture, Enterprise)

They're usually found on "The Way to Eden."

Expectations sounds too forceful. "I expect you to follow my words verbatim." "I expect you to eat your disgusting vegetables." "The expectation is that I the obvious elder gamer expect you to follow what I say."

This may not by your intent, but the word choice in the title can be read as talking down to the reader.

Dear Star Trek writers, producers, and showrunners, keep giving us good stories. If that means messing with the timeline, mess away.

That is all.

RedRobe wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

AceofMoxen wrote:

Tristan d'Ambrosius wrote:

PF2. Cleaner ruleset. Closer parity between classes. 3 Action economy.

This, and a million little things that make up keftiu's comment, and I was genuinely tried of 3.5's problems. PF1 starts with a 25-years out of date operating system. We've had so many innovations since then.

3.x was 25 years old when pf1 came out? That can't be right...can it?

No, it can't. 3.0 released in 2000, then 3.5 was like 2 years later. Pathfinder, as a system, released in 2009.

sigh. OP is starting with PF1 now, in 2023. So PF1 is running on a system that was cutting edge 23 years ago, which I rounded to 25.

Um...sigh...no. The quote is PF1 starts with a 25 years out of date operating system. No it doesn't. Since PF1 starts in 2009 from a 2000 launch date of the beginning of the system it cannot start with a 25 year out of date operating system 9 years later.

sigh. If the language were cleaned up and amended to PF1 runs on a 25 year (rounded up for simplicity) out of date operating system then sure.

le sigh

And, for some inexplicable reason, the party was able to battle (and win against) an undead Red Wizard, but had trouble with a displacer beast?

Or completely explained in scene. Displacer beast no weapons no magic. Undead red wizard weapons and magic readily available.

I will never understand some of you not standing a movie after 10 minutes that I love

AceofMoxen wrote:

Tristan d'Ambrosius wrote:

PF2. Cleaner ruleset. Closer parity between classes. 3 Action economy.

This, and a million little things that make up keftiu's comment, and I was genuinely tried of 3.5's problems. PF1 starts with a 25-years out of date operating system. We've had so many innovations since then.

3.x was 25 years old when pf1 came out? That can't be right...can it?

It is not. It's still not. Won't be until 2025.

Or maybe for once it can be a mature thoughtful discussion on the nuances between the editions and not a war. Maybe a new person came here with hope about the brand and wanted quantifiable opinions on the likes of fellow posters.

Maybe...

Wouldn't it be nice?

PF2. Cleaner ruleset. Closer parity between classes. 3 Action economy.

I get that. There's these things called Kickstarter, Indiegogo, Backerkit.
And I just keep backing games I'm sure I'm never going to get to play or run. Alice Is Missing. Solemn Vale. Old Gods of Appalachia. Deviant: the Renegades.

But there's always something that I can use for some other game. Some lore, some setting, some mechanic or just inspiration for something else as I read all these games I don't play.

In Middle School there was AD&D fizzled out but I got the concept. High School there was Teenage Mutant Turtles from Palladium, also fizzled out. College Sophomore year there was the epic AD&D 2nd edition campaign that lasted both semesters that really got me into gaming and made lifelong friends from. I also read a lot of Vampire the Masquerade 2nd edition (this being 1994-1995) while waiting for my turn. And D6 Star Wars, where we accidently killed Luke Leaving the second Death Star. Junior Year there was GURPS used to play an Angels vs Demons because we were excited for In Nomine but just couldn't wait for it. There was more GURPS and a LARP while camping. Then First Senior Year I pulled back on gaming to focus on trying to graduate, notice I said first senior year.

Then 2001 and the invite to Earthdawn where I've had a weekly game pretty much ever since, small gaps weeks nothing more than 2 months I think.
Deadlands. Exalted. Decipher Star Trek. Cinematic Unisystem for a ______ the Vampire Slayer Game (we had our own slayer, not Buffy), Angel type game. a mutant hero school game (similar to but distinctly different from any Marvel X-Men). Back to Exalted after having stepped into the DM, GM, ST, Director role with the mutant game that people believed i belonged in way back in that epic 2nd edition game sophomore year of college. And this was an epic Exalted game. 2 ST's. 2 different timelines. 4+ years to an epic conclusion.

Vampire the Requiem LARP. Vampire the Requiem ttrpg. Hunter the Vigil. Revisting D6 Star Wars ("I Will Blow This Planet Up!!!!!), 4th Edition D&D, Pathfinder, Scion, 2 5th edition games, FFG Star Wars ("I Will Crash This Super Star Destroyer!!!), Kitchen Sink Chronicles of Darkness Round Robin Story Tellers, Vampire the Requiem, PF2, FFG Genesys for a weird west Deadlands game. Hunter the Vigil 2e.

By the way I hear there's a stripped down rules lighter version of 3rd edition Exalted called Exalted Essence. Epicness on the Horizon.

Trinity Adventure! for a Call of Cthulhu game coming sooon

I didn't run all of these, some played.

1988 till now. I know I've left some out.

Duh. That's why I say to talk to me like you're talking to a robot.

You ever see how Han talked to 3PO? This is gonna be fun.

Brevity. Embrace it.

My god you suck the joy and fun out of using forums on messageboards, like completely.