Seagull

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I usually GM games and the one I'm in is only level 5, but... Fighter has been super fun. I've always loved the simplicity of the Fighter class in PF1, even if it was weak, and in PF2 it's been great.


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I'm the GM but I have a wizard player in a party with a rogue, barbarian, champion, and druid (all just hit level 8). I don't crunch the numbers and all that jazz, so while I've heard a lot of controversy regarding the Wizard I can't say that I can give any real, quantitative results for the play experience, but I've personally come to the conclusion that I think that while I initially thought the Wizard was slightly underpowered, I think it has a higher learning curve to be on par with other characters.

The Wizard in question is a universalist, no familiar, no focus spells, primarily trying to play a "control wizard." This decision from the player was more from a desire to express their own self-control since they typically played big, explosive evocation wizards in PF1 as opposed to a conscious decision that emerged from actually studying the class in PF2. So, with that in mind...

Deriven Firelion wrote:


What is your experience with the following:

1. Incapacitation Trait: This affects every fight against any challenge that is even 1 level above the group. It affects how you must align your spell slots since even minion level mobs at high level are usually equal or a few levels lower in major encounters.

For example, if you're level 12 you will fight some minions that are level 8 to 10 requiring 4th and 5th level slots to affect with incapacitation spells. And these lower level minions often are easily killed, less of a threat, and often not worth using incapacitation spells against.

For the most part, my player has been pretty good at gauging threats and deciding when to bust out incapacitation spells. I've also found that while in PF1 I would throw encounters that were 2-3 levels higher than the players, in PF2 I often involve additional lower level "minions" because those are some of the best encounters we've had. I'm not wild about Incapacitation effects, personally, but I've come to like them more than I expected. When they work, they've worked wonderfully, and the player saves most of their incapacitation spells for enemies they've used Recall Knowledge on to determine their worst save (I've been pretty liberal with our interpretation of what Recalling Knowledge reveals, so I've been treating it similar to Battle Assessment, which our Rogue has, and, thanks to his excellent Perception, has been equally beneficial for our Wizard).

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2. Domination/Charm: What is your experience with domination and charm in PF2? Both have the incapacitation trait. Have you been able to effectively use these to acquire a servant creature that is effective against the enemies you fight at your level?

I've only seen Charm in play, and it's been pretty solid. I don't run it like some form of mind control, but the value of the Friendly condition has been invaluable fairly recently. They have never used Charm to have a target fight for them (nor have they tried), but they have prevented fights from occurring by carefully winning them over to their side.

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3. Summons: Have the summons you have access to at your highest level been effective fighting enemies you fight at max level? Are they worth using?

For the Wizard? No, they don't prepare summon spells. Our Druid, however, loves them. But even then they only come out infrequently. With the proper time to cast them, they have been really invaluable (especially against less intelligent foes who will willingly attack them). I can't otherwise comment too much. I want to like them more but they do seem pretty niche.

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4. Shapechanging: Have your shapechange spells been effective? Can a wizard use a shapechange spell and be effective? Have you found wizard builds that allow you to make Shapechange effective like multicassing with monk for flurry?

I have not had any shapechanging spells cast in our current campaign, so I can't really comment here. They sound interesting, though!

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5. What spells are most effective as you level?

It's hard to say. I'm hesitant to answer as the GM, but my player really likes the Agitate spell, Phantasmal Killer, Magic Missile, Shield, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and Invisibility, which have all been pretty regularly used. Their main flaw, IMO, is that in playing off-type they've forgotten to pick a lot of evocation spells, which is their best way of targeting Reflex saves.


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When I was much younger (maybe 10? 11?) I wanted to play with my older brother and his friend who was a GM. I think it was 2e D&D. My older brother and his friend reluctantly agreed after I begged them, and gave me some pre-made wizard character. I didn't care, I was just happy to be playing.

I don't recall much, but while my older brother was flying on top of some red dragon burning a town, I fled into the woods to try and survive. I became lost, and was on the verge of starving and dying of thirst. I found a river and saw some fish swimming in it, so I tried to dive in and catch the fish. The GM rolled some dice and told me I was drowning because I didn't say I was holding my breath. I failed whatever save I had to make and died, much to the relief of my older brother and his friend.

Funnily enough, I loved that experience. I didn't know any better at the time and thought it was so exhilarating. I begged to play more but they wouldn't let me. It did, however, spur my interest in table top roleplaying games, and I've now been a GM for almost two decades. I don't require my players to state they are holding their breath before diving into water. :)