I’m potentially running a post-Earthfall/Age of Darkness game where the PCs build up an empire from the ruins of civilization using the Kingdom building rules in Ultimate Campaign. As part of this, I’m trying to overlay a technology tree (similar to the Civilization PC games) over the empire’s development to give the feel of dragging humanity back from the brink of extinction (“The Aboleth bombed us back to the stone age!”).
What does everyone think? I'm looking for feedback, particularly around any loopholes, campaign-killing exploits or generally un-fun parts which I have overlooked.
I went and saw him about two weeks ago at the Sydney Opera House, and they've now released the full interview.
Sydney Opera House wrote:
Sir Terry Pratchett is best known for his Discworld series of comic fantasy novels that have been translated into 32 languages and sold 65 million copies. In 2007 he was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s and subsequently began a public discussion about the disease and physician assisted suicide.In his only Sydney talk he took part in a lively discussion about his life and work.
David Posener
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka Dementrius
I was poking around my USB memory stick last night and I discovered that I had kept all seven versions of the progressive editing of my wondrous item, the starborn seeds of manifest denial which made it through to the top 32 last year. Hopefully the you’ll find the stages I went through informative on how to get through to the top 32 yourself!
This tiny glass vial is etched with runes and hangs from a simple silver chain. The vial contains a mouthful of an unpleasant, acrid elixir. A creature drinking a bitter dose of scepticism gains a palpable and irrational cynicism about the supernatural for 11 rounds. The potency of the wearer’s denial of magic has the following effects:
The creature gains a +4 morale bonus to Will saving throws against illusions and Sense Motive checks, plus immunity to supernatural fear effects.
If the creature is charmed, its attitude towards the caster becomes indifferent rather than friendly.
The creature treats any conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) or evocation spell or spell-like ability targeting it as a shadow conjuration or shadow evocation as appropriate, allowing an additional Will save for diminished effectiveness as shown below:
The creature automatically attempts a saving throw to negate any (harmless) spell or spell-like ability targeting it.
The liquid slowly accumulates at a rate of one dose per day as long as the vial is worn. Significant exposure to deceit fills the vial. If the wearer fails a saving throw against an illusion spell or a Sense Motive check, the vial immediately fills.
Construction Requirements Iron Will, Improved Iron Will, globe of invulnerability, greater heroism; Cost 11,880 gp
Errors with this incarnation included:
- The item is too much like a potion
- The item has a grab-bag of too many different effects
- Terms like “significant exposure to deceit fills this vial” without specifying exactly what that means
- Table is SNAFU for messageboards and everything needs a good edit.
Note that the core mechanic of using the reverse of shadow conjuration / evocation as a defence was in there from the first draft. I personally feel that the “create an interesting mechanic” part of wondrous design is probably the most important.
This finger-length stem of wrought noqual starmetal supports a gossamer sphere of pale green crystals. Once per day, the possessor can disperse the crystalline pappi of the counterfeit dandelion with a single breath. A lazily-drifting shroud of noqual surrounds the creature activating the celadon dandelion of denial, diminishing the reality of magic within for 11 rounds. This has the following effects:
The possessor gains a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against illusions, plus immunity to supernatural fear effects.
If the possessor is charmed, its attitude towards the caster becomes indifferent rather than friendly.
The possessor treats any conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) or evocation spell or spell-like ability targeting it as a shadow conjuration or shadow evocation as appropriate, allowing an additional Will save for diminished effectiveness as shown below:
The possessor automatically attempts a saving throw to negate any (harmless) spell or spell-like ability targeting it.
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Improved Iron Will, globe of invulnerability, greater heroism; Cost 11,880 gp
Here we get the first look at its final shape – that of an enchanted dandelion decided upon when waiting for my kids to get out of the car and staring blankly off into the grass on the side of the road.. Later on I baulked at using “dandelion” in the title because it seemed a little “wussy”.
"Celadon" came up when I was searching for synonyms for green and it stuck.
This version has basically the same effects as draft #1.
Note the use of the word “pappi” to technically describe the dandelion seeds which got edited in a later version. The reason for this edit was directly linked to the also-ran thread in 2009 when I used the term “daemon pate” to describe the top of a outsider’s skull, but it’s similarity to “pâte” caused many LOLs in the judge’s chambers. “Pappi” wasn’t going to fare much better.
This finger-length stem of glazed ceramic supports a gossamer sphere of delicate noqual crystals. The charm is worn like a brooch, and provides a +2 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells or spell-like abilities. Once per day, the possessor can disperse the counterfeit dandelion’s skymetal seeds with a single breath, a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The luminous, languid noqual cloud surrounds and follows the possessor for 11 rounds before the seeds settle back on their stem. The cloud does not obscure sight and can be dispersed by winds as a fog cloud.
The seeds weaken the physical manifestation of magic targeting the wearer. The wearer treats any conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) or evocation spell targeting it as a shadow conjuration or shadow evocation as appropriate spell targeting the possessor is instead treated as an illusion (shadow) spell similar to shadow conjuration or shadow evocation. This allows a Will saving throw to disbelieve the unreal portion as shown in the table below. The possessor receives a +4 bonus to this saving throw, as if he received a warning that the effect was illusionary.
(*) Creatures summoned by conjuration (summoning) effects deal less damage, but keep their full AC bonus and hit points.
(**) The cloud suppresses any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) within the wearer’s space and weakens the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 60%.
While the cloud is in effect, the possessor must attempt a saving throw to negate any (harmless) spell cast on him.
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Improved Iron Will, globe of invulnerability; Cost 11,880 gp
Here I’ve trimmed off some of the more extraneous abilities of the item and we’re getting close to the final product. The wording needs more editing as it is still unimaginably verbose.
This finger-length stem of glazed celadon supports a gossamer sphere of delicate noqual crystals. The talisman acts as a brooch-pin, and provides a +2 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. Once per day, the possessor can disperse the counterfeit dandelion’s skymetal seeds with a breath, a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The luminous seeds form a languid cloud that surrounds the wearer for 11 rounds before the seeds settle back on the porcelain stem. The cloud is transparent and can be dispersed by winds as a fog cloud.
The seeds weaken physical manifestations of magic targeting the wearer, leaving only insubstantial, shadowy remnants. The wearer treats conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) and evocation effects as illusion (shadow) spells similar to shadow conjuration. The real proportions of spells that breach the cloud vary by spell level and are summarized in the table below. The wearer automatically disbelieves the residual illusionary portion. The seeds suppress any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) touched by the wearer and weaken the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 40%.
First created for the Hermit-Emperor Losifan, Slave to the Dandelion Throne, this inscribed disc of green glazed celadon hangs from a brilliant golden chain. The fine porcelain is fired from heavy alluvial clay native to Alkenstar and the sublime, pale green color of the glaze reflects the noqual skymetal crystals blended with a closely guarded alchemical recipe. The talisman provides a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
The seal also creates an invisible defensive sphere around the wearer that weakens physical manifestations of magic, leaving only translucent, shadowy remnants. The wearer treats conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) and evocation effects as illusion (shadow) spells similar to shadow conjuration. The real proportions of spells that breach the sphere vary by spell level and are summarized in the table below. The wearer automatically disbelieves the residual illusionary portion. The sphere also suppresses any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) touched by the wearer and weakens the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 40%.
(*) Creatures summoned by conjuration (summoning) spells deal proportionally less damage to the wearer, but keep their full AC bonus and hit points.
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, globe of invulnerability, resistance, true seeing; Cost 41,000 gp
Oh no! It's all gone horribly wrong – look at the overdone backstory and horrible multi-adjective name! I was wandering around and thought “The Thirty-First Celadon Seal” had a nice ring to it. It didn’t really.
This small disc of green glazed celadon hangs from a brilliant golden chain and bears an elaborate counter-relief emblem. The fine porcelain is fired from heavy, magic-dead clay native to Alkenstar. The sublime, pale green color of the glaze derives from a blend of noqual skymetal and a closely guarded alchemical recipe.
The talisman provides a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. The seal also creates an invisible defensive sphere around the wearer that weakens physical manifestations of magic, leaving only insubstantial, shadowy remnants. The wearer treats conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) and evocation effects as illusion (shadow) spells similar to shadow conjuration. The real proportions of spells that breach the sphere vary by spell level and are summarized in the table below. The wearer automatically disbelieves the residual illusionary portion. The sphere suppresses any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) touched by the wearer and weakens the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 40%.
(*) Creatures summoned by conjuration (summoning) spells deal proportionally less damage to the wearer, but keep their full AC bonus and hit points.
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, globe of invulnerability, resistance, true seeing; Cost 41,000 gp
I’ve tried to come to my senses and remove the backstory components in this version. Still tossing up between the “Seal” and the “Dandelion” aspects of the item.
This finger-length stem of glazed celadon supports a gossamer sphere of delicate noqual crystals. The talisman acts as a brooch-pin, and provides a +2 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. Once per day, the possessor can disperse the counterfeit dandelion’s skymetal seeds with a breath, a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The luminous seeds form a languid cloud that surrounds the wearer for 11 rounds before the seeds settle back on the porcelain stem. The cloud is transparent and can be dispersed by winds as a fog cloud.
The seeds weaken physical manifestations of magic targeting the wearer, leaving only insubstantial, shadowy remnants. The wearer treats conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) and evocation effects as illusion (shadow) spells similar to shadow conjuration. The real proportions of spells that breach the cloud vary by spell level and are summarized in the table below. The wearer automatically disbelieves the residual illusionary portion. The seeds suppress any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) touched by the wearer and weaken the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 40%.
David Posener
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka Dementrius
A rock-like, black shell sheathes the bulbous body of this hovering, spheroid abomination. Obscene swells of pallid flesh spill forth from groaning fissures in the creature’s shell, exposing numerous large, twitching, segmented appendages. Its wide, tooth-ridden maw exposes an iridescent void which emits a disconcerting, rhythmic hum.
Astrumal CR 5
XP 1,600
Always CE Medium Outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar)
Init +0; Senses blindsight 120 ft., detect thoughts; Perception +10
Aura aura of lunacy
=====
Defense
=====
AC 19, touch 10, flat-footed 19 (+9 natural)
hp 57 (6d10+24); fast healing 3
Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +6
DR 5/magic; Immune cold, fire; SR 16
Weaknesses vulnerability to electricity
=====
Offense
=====
Speed 20 ft., fly 30 ft. (good)
Melee Bite +11 (2d6+4 plus annihilation), 3 pincers +8 (1d8+2 plus grab)
Ranged Electrocuting Ray +6 ranged touch (1d6 electricity plus 1d3 Int damage plus pull or push)
Special Attacks annihilation, electrocuting ray, pull (ray, 10 feet), push (ray, 10 feet)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +8)
Constant—detect thoughts
At will—charge metal (as heat metal, with electricity instead of fire damage) (DC 14), hold person (DC 14)
1/day—repel metal and stone (metal only) (DC 20)
=====
Statistics
=====
Str 19, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 15
Base Atk +6; CMB +10 (+14 grapple); CMD 20 (can’t be tripped)
Feats Great Fortitude(B), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Multiattack, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Fly +13, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (the planes) +10, Perception +10, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +9, Use Magic Device +11
SQ conductivity, no breath
=====
Ecology
=====
Environment any (Leng)
Organization solitary, shock (4-12) or apocalypse (50-500)
Treasure standard
=====
Special Abilities
=====
Annihilation (Su) The void-field within the maw of an astrumal annihilates any material within, dealing an additional 1d6 damage. An astrumal can disintegrate up to a 1-foot cube of non-living matter per round, including force effects.
Aura of Lunacy (Su) Any living creature within a 30-foot radius of an astrumal must succeed on a Will save (DC 15) or yield to the creature’s insidious, oscillating magnetic field. Those who fail succumb to confusion and rage for 6 rounds. Creatures resistant to electricity are unaffected. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Conductivity (Su) Temperature affects the speed and power of an astrumal. At temperatures below freezing or if attacked with cold damage, it benefits from haste but reduces the save DCs of its spell-like abilities by 2. At temperatures above boiling or if attacked with fire damage, it suffers from slow but increases the save DCs of its spell-like abilities by 2. These effects last for the duration of exposure (minimum 1 round).
Electrocuting Ray (Su) An astrumal fires rays of electricity, out to a maximum range of 120 feet, damaging foes and incapacitating their minds. The rays may only push or pull creatures that wear metal armour or are composed entirely of metal.
No Breath (Ex) An astrumal does not breathe and is immune to inhaled poisons and diseases. An astrumal is immune to pressure damage.
Nightmare creatures birthed from the twisted essence of Leng, astrumals are slaves to their hunger, despite their intelligence, driven to devour worlds in a ravenous frenzy. The abominations emit a sinister magnetic field driving nearby creatures berserk or catatonic. An astrumal also uses this field to sense its surroundings, read surface thoughts, incapacitate foes or electrocute enemies, quickly burning out their fragile minds. The monster’s magnetic aura also provides control over metallic objects and enables its flight.
Denizens of Leng rain astrumals on Material Plane worlds as instruments of genocide against hapless mortal populations that provoke their ire. Astrumals spawn quickly after feeding and, if left unchecked, spread across the world leaving frenzied anarchy and collapsed civilisations in their wake. The teeming abominations strip the crust of organic matter before slaking their endless thirst on the iron-rich magma at the planet’s core.
When the husk finally collapses millennia later, astrumals leave the barren rock and float across the vast dark gulfs between the stars looking for new worlds, rich with life and metals, to decimate. A planet’s magnetic poles attract astrumals and it is here the inhabitants first glimpse the pale lines of meteoric fire which foreshadow the coming devastation.
David Posener
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka Dementrius
Haga Description: A haga is an enormous, double-headed eagle, twenty feet long, which carries the scent of sandalwood over its mountainous dominion. This raptor is golden feathered and majestic in flight, swooping to devour sentient prey. Other victims serve as writhing components for the haga’s haruspicy rituals, where the raptor divines future events in the spilt entrails. The haga’s alien mind is keen but immoral, fearless and without scruple, knowing perfectly the consequences of its actions and even the time of its own death.
Despite the danger, some foolish emperors, petty tyrants and generals are desperate enough to request a haga’s council, yearning for unnatural knowledge and willing to pay in blood. Both heads of the creature speak simultaneously during these correspondences, one lamenting woeful visions, the other describing auspicious omens. Hagas find delight in arranging historically critical moments, patterns across mortal generations, and the confluence of improbable but poignant disasters. The peak of haga artistry entails choreographing wars and predicatively composing flawless abyssal runes or infernal litanies from the dying soldiers and falling battle debris.
Powers and Abilities: Hagas are physically powerful, able to snatch creatures as large as a bull in their talons before tearing the creature apart with their razor-sharp beaks. Their eyesight is keen like most birds of prey and can pierce magical deception. Hagas are ageless creatures of cruel omens and dread fate, able to divine future events, see distant places, speak with the slain, and answer almost any question by reading the splay of the flesh and splatter of the blood. This insight also makes these raptors deadly in combat, receiving precognitions into their opponent’s strikes and maneuvers before they occur. Hagas draw power from dying prey when they perform their rites and can manipulate an enemy’s fate through potent curses.
This finger-length stem of glazed celadon supports a gossamer sphere of delicate noqual crystals. The talisman acts as a brooch-pin, and provides a +2 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. Once per day, the possessor can disperse the counterfeit dandelion’s skymetal seeds with a breath, a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The luminous seeds form a languid cloud that surrounds the wearer for 11 rounds before the seeds settle back on the porcelain stem. The cloud is transparent and can be dispersed by winds as a fog cloud.
The seeds weaken physical manifestations of magic targeting the wearer, leaving only insubstantial, shadowy remnants. The wearer treats conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation) and evocation effects as illusion (shadow) spells similar to shadow conjuration. The real proportions of spells that breach the cloud vary by spell level and are summarized in the table below. The wearer automatically disbelieves the residual illusionary portion. The seeds suppress any illusion (figment, glamer, pattern or phantasm) touched by the wearer and weaken the reality of illusion (shadow) spells by 40%.
Below is my rejected scenario ready for your outrageous slurs thinly disguised as constructive criticism. :)
Scenario #45: The Tauren Imbroglio
Introduction
A week ago, Naur Spiritkin hosted two warrior-chiefs of the seaborne Twisted Spine minotaurs. At the crescendo of the fealty feast, they slipped the surprised albino a goblet poisoned with an elixir of feeblemind. As the “minotaurs” reverted to hulking half-orcs, they steered the befuddled minotaur away into the night.
A month previous, Grandmaster Torch discovered a concealed tunnel, a secret exit from the subterranean vaults under Azlanti Keep. His informants revealed the chambers held detailed genealogical records, title deeds, and irreplaceable state treasures, including the Ruby Heart of Spite. The tunnel contained impossible mazes along its length to stymie unwanted incursions, thus necessitating Torch’s abduction of a compliant, forgetful guide whose natural cunning could navigate a three-dimensional labyrinth. Torch’s lackeys were to return Naur to his comfortable bed, healed of the feeblemind and ignorant of the heist.
Ivtam Scheel, an avaricious rival Pathfinder obsessed with the Ruby Heart of Spite, led Torch’s team as they successfully traversed the mazes, evaded the guardian earth elemental and left behind a precautionary trail of invisible twine.
Once within the vaults, an unchecked patch of russet mold overwhelmed three good men in a dank hallway, birthing a new crop of vegepygmies. The salt mephit, Essofhor, desiccated two more before recommencing his dehydration of the humid sea air threatening the archive’s fragile documents. The chamber’s archivist, a disgruntled skeletal champion named Cymanthus, slaughtered four more. The First Guard long ago thwarted Cymanthus’ pursuit of lichdom, imprisoning him here to catalogue Absalom’s eternity.
The group’s panicked remnant, Ivtam, the bespectacled sage Doresmo and Naur, set off a powerful magical trap, which encased them in an inverted prismatic sphere. They now wait huddled inside their blinding prison for the First Guard to execute them.
Summary
Grandmaster Torch approaches the Pathfinders for help once Ivtam misses the rendezvous. He tempts materialistic PCs with the Ruby Heart of Spite, and the opportunity to humble a rival Pathfinder. For atypically altruistic Pathfinders he points out Naur is innocent, in danger and needs rescuing.
The PCs follow the twine to the archive vaults using a potion of see invisibility. The earth elemental guardian interrupts their journey and rams them towards plummeting shafts.
Once inside, the characters free Ivtam, Doresmo, Naur and the Ruby Heart of Spite by individually circumventing each color via a series of switches. These switches reside within alcoves warded by a single layer of the corresponding color. The PCs can devise their own methods of bypassing each layer, but the following are indicative solutions:
- The vegepygmies (who do not speak, but can communicate in other ways), Essofhor and Cymanthus each have immunities which can assist in bypassing layers. Each of the three wants another dead and are willing to drive a murderous bargain.
- Summon monster spells can summon creatures which have immunities or resistances to bypass layers. For example, fire beetles (summon monster I), are immune to the mind-affecting indigo layer.
- The characters may have spells to defeat certain layers, specifically magic missile, gust of wind, daylight and dispel magic. Other characters may have enough hit points to breach the red and orange layers.
- The vault contains magical treasures for those who can overcome the resident creatures. These magic items coincidently provide solutions to vexatious layers, such as a potion of resist energy, potion of delay poison, wand of magic missile, or a scroll of dimensional anchor.
As the characters are leaving, an advance squad of First Guards arrives in hot pursuit.
Encounter #1 – Elemental
An earth elemental ambushes the PCs using earth glide and shoves them down shafts.
Encounter #2 – Prismatic Sphere
Doresmo gives hints into the nature of the sphere and the Pathfinders use their resources to undo the trap.
Encounter #3 – Russet Mold
A gang of vegepygmies grown from Torch’s men who want Essofhor destroyed.
Encounter #4 – Essofhor
The extraplanar anhydrous agent wants the russet mold destroyed.
Encounter #5 – Cymanthus
Cymanthus is a skeletal champion wizard who wants Essofhor destroyed for a century of crass insults. He has a supply of spirits, which PCs can use to destroy the russet mold.
Encounter #6 – First Guards (optional)
A mixed-class group of guards intent on pursuit. The PCs can win this encounter by reaching the maze.
Conclusion
If the characters fail, the First Guard finds and summarily executes Ivtam, Doresmo and Naur.
If the characters succeed, the three escape and the Ruby Heart of Spite is added to the Pathfinder’s treasure vaults much to Ivtam’s chagrin.
I have a lawful evil cleric player who wants to summon a Pit Fiend using greater planar ally (1 day per caster lever – extremely hazardous task). As devils don’t accept American Express, what type of infernal payment do you think a lord of the Hells should ask for?
GPA text spoilerified for your convenience:
Spoiler:
By casting this spell, you request your deity to send you an outsider (of 6 HD or less) of the deity's choice. If you serve no particular deity, the spell is a general plea answered by a creature sharing your philosophical alignment. If you know an individual creature's name, you may request that individual by speaking the name during the spell (though you might get a different creature anyway).
You may ask the creature to perform one task in exchange for a payment from you. Tasks might range from the simple to the complex. You must be able to communicate with the creature called in order to bargain for its services.
The creature called requires a payment for its services. This payment can take a variety of forms, from donating gold or magic items to an allied temple, to a gift given directly to the creature, to some other action on your part that matches the creature's alignment and goals. Regardless, this payment must be made before the creature agrees to perform any services. The bargaining takes at least 1 round, so any actions by the creature begin in the round after it arrives.
A task taking up to 1 minute per caster level requires a payment of 100 gp per HD of the creature called. For a task taking up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 500 gp per HD. A long-term task, one requiring up to 1 day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD.
A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift. Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature). However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature's ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment.
At the end of its task, or when the duration bargained for expires, the creature returns to its home plane (after reporting back to you, if appropriate and possible).
What about a set of four d20s, each that takes into account the -5 penalty for iterative attacks? i.e.
Die #1 (Red): Normal d20
Die #2 (Orange): d20 with numbers between "-4" and "15"
Die #3 (Yellow): d20 with numbers between "-9" and "10"
Die #4 (Green): d20 with numbers between "-14" and "5"
To roll a full attack with four attacks, just pick up the four dice and roll, adding your highest BAB to each roll. Simple.
The only complexity I can see would be determining critical threats (perhaps a circle or triangle around the highest and lowest numbers on the dice).
I thought I’d start a Think Tank thread on Save or Die spells in 3.P. While some work has been done on the specifically “save or die” spells (I’m looking at you finger of death), others such as flesh to stone and dominate person are still hanging around.
To start us off, I thought I’d bring a little analysis to the table (Danger! Contains math!). Conclusion: Save or Die overpowered.
Spoiler:
Introduction
This analysis shows that at some point along the saving throw failure % spectrum that “save-or-disable/die” tactics are equivalent to “damage” tactics. By finding this point and comparing it to the current saving throw success % we can perhaps find ways to balance the two tactics.
I’ve listed as many of my assumptions as I could think of. Feel free to pick them apart and we can re-calibrate again.
Definitions
“Save-or-disable/die” refers to spells that either kill that target outright or remove them from the fight so effectively that they will play no further part in the battle. Examples include: 3.5 finger of death, confusion, charm, dominate, 3.5 wail of the banshee etc. This tactic can also include the use of mundane poisons or vorpal weapons.
“Damage” tactics can refer to both physical attacks from melee or ranged combat, as well as direct damage spells.
“Save failure %” is the chance of the target failing the saving throw. Eg. A +17 Will save on a DC 23 dominate person would have a save failure of 25%.
Assumptions:
* “Damage” combat should be equivalent in power to “Save-Or-Disable” combat
* One single target vs 4 PCs
* The party will concentrate on one tactic as the two tactical options are not mutually beneficial (SoD does not deal damage, Damage is irrelevant to saves)
* The expected mean half-life [50% death rate] of monster(s) under attack from damaging attacks from all 4 party members = 3 rounds
* Therefore the expected mean half-life of monster(s) under attack from save or die from all 4 party members should = 3 rounds = 12 attacks [# of attacks]
* Spell resistance, when applicable is overcome 75% of the time [SR]
* The existing save failure % is around 75% for targeting a bad save and 40% for targeting a good save.
Calculations
Let’s calculate the point at which the save fail % gives an equivalent Death Rate to damage combat:
Death RateSOD = (1-SR*Save fail %)^(# of attacks)
0.50 =(1-0.75*Save fail %)^12
Save fail % = (1 – 0.50^(1/12)) / 0.75 = 7.5%
Meaning that in order for “damage” combat to be equivalent to “Save” combat with the assumptions above, the success rate of any individual spell should be 7.5%. That is, the monster should only fail on a roll of 2 half the time. This came as a bit of shock to me the first time I read it as well. Then I realised in the old days of previous editions (BECMI comes to mind) the flat saving throw of 2+ at high levels was actually balanced.
Sensitivity
If we do a quick sensitivity analysis on our assumptions we find that if we change the half-life of combat to 1 round for really efficient damage dealers (4 SOD attacks), the save fail rate of any individual spell should be ~21% (about half the success rate of targeting a good save). That is, if the monster only fails on 4 or less, half the time it will be mopped up in one round by a full SOD party. This is hardly the ¼ resources model that we are looking for.
If we change the assumption that only one member of the party is using SOD, and an expected combat duration of 3 rounds, the expected save fail % is 28%. This means that a single SOD tactician is equivalent to a 4 member party that consists entirely of damage dealers when the enemy saves on a roll of 6 or better.
Rectification ideas
Let’s try some ways to redress this imbalance (in no particular order of preference – just throwing ideas around):
SOD spells are only effective if the target rolls a 1 or 2 on their save.
A party of four in a fight against the BBEG will kill him more than half the time in three rounds or less in this scenario. Each party member uses up three of their spells, which (at a stretch) can equate to ¼ resources.
Cons:
SOD becomes unsexy and more reliant on dumb luck.
No-one will take flavourful spells / abilities like flesh to stone
A 9th level spell has the same impact and success rate as a 2nd level spell
Not backward compatible to 3.5
Increase saves
Perhaps a change to Great Fortitude / Iron Will / Lightning Reflexes such as:
GF / IW / LR
Benefit: This feat turns a poor saving throw progression into a good saving throw progression for one of your classes. If this save is already using the good progression, add a +2 bonus to the save.
Pros:
Scales upwards with level, keeping pace with caster increases in spell DC
Mostly backwards compatible (+2 at first level for everyone)
Encourages single-classing (which seems to be a bit of a design goal)
Uses an existing mechanic (good saves)
Can easily be added to monsters / NPCs to effectively shore up their defences
Gives fighters something to do with their extra feats
Cons:
Not completely backwards compatible (changes to monster book + published NPCs)
Not completely balanced (SoD still is much more effective, just less so against the creatures with these feats)
May make it easier to access some prestige classes with a base save pre-requisite (Although I can’t think of one right now)
SoD use multiple slots
SoD spells actually use multiple spell slots to prepare as noted in the spell description. This limits the number of these that can be used and makes resource management more pressing. For example, wail of the banshee would use up 2 9th-level slots to prepare etc.
Pros:
One additional “multi-slot” mechanic no other changes
Limits total # of SOD available
Cons:
Introduces a new mechanic (backwards compatibility)
Someone has to go through as put an extra line in every spell description that says “Multi-slot: Yes / No”
Balance is still the same, but causes a shorter time between “nova blasts” – It’s now a 7.5 minute-adventuring day for those who already have that problem
SoD does damage instead
Partially what has been done with spells like finger of death and wail of the banshee under 3.P. This idea is extended further to all the SoD spells, and includes options to cause ability damage in lieu of HP damage for spells such as flesh to stone (dex dam?), finger of death (con dam?), dominate person (cha dam?) etc.
Pros:
Changes all tactics to “damage” tactics and stacks with other party member’s efforts
Balance is good
Cons:
Spell mechanics start getting a bit the same (both fireball and wail of the banshee do only damage)
Some people like instant debilitation spells
Have to change all appropriate spells
Recalculating after ability damage is a pain in the arse (although not as much of a pain as rolling up a new character)
Edit:
Leave them alone! I like them how they are.
Is also a valid option.
This is a re-post over here from the Sinister Adventures site for all you Paizoians:
I don’t know about you, but I’ve been goin’ crazy waiting for the next wave of Indulgences, Dark Vistas #1: Razor Coast and the results of the Booty contest to see if I can I make it two from two (2 months is too long man… I’ve got the shakes and everything).
So instead of channelling that nervous energy into some kind of severe mental illness, I’ve put together a Razor Coast themed adventure as an amateur catharsis for you all to share! A Fandulgence if you will, while we wait for the real stuff to come out.
They Fled the Westward Dawn
The honest oaken decks of The Westward dawn have seen their share of blood split. No ship is as reviled by the Razor Sea’s pirates as the 36-gun frigate that has hauled innumerable of their fellows to the sturdy gallows at Port Shaw. The crew, straight-laced and brave against the cannonade, do their duty reliably and commendably when called to action. However, this time their enemy is the infernal, howling squall that bears down on their timbers, and the desperate, soulless psychopaths huddled together below. An adventure for 1st or 2nd level soulless psychopaths.
Follow the link below (click on the “Click HERE to start preparing your file to download” , skip through about 5 ads because I’m too tight to pay for file hosting):
David Posener
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka Dementrius
With the next RPG Superstar competition now only ‘months away’, what round tasks would you like to see featured in RPG Superstar 2.0? E.g.
Round 1: Design a magic weapon or armour
Round 2: Design a religious organisation
Round 3: Design a prestige class / base class
Round 4: Write a ‘DM help’ article
Round 5: Design an encounter*
Round 6: Design a full adventure proposal*
David Posener
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9 aka Dementrius
Now that we've seen then top 32, and have a feel for what the judges were looking for, let's have another crack at it just for fun.
Bring out one of your more suitable "B" items or create new one from scratch! Like so:
Grasping Talons of Avarice
These supple gloves look like the talons of a red dragon, but are actually constructed of thousands of minute rubies with palms of woven gold.
As a standard action, the wearer of the Talons may make a touch attack that transmutes the flesh of the subject into a horrific crust of gold and precious gems (Will DC 16 negates). Any existing open wounds coagulate into macabre clots of rubies, which often weep infected topaz. Emerald cysts and diamond bone-spurs also spontaneously burst from the target’s skin.
The transformation hampers the subject’s movement, dealing 1d6 points of dexterity damage. If the subject is reduced to 0 dexterity it becomes petrified (as flesh to stone). The dexterity damage and the petrifaction can only be removed with spells that counter bestow curse or with direct exposure to sunlight (including the daylight spell).
Exposure to sunlight for 1 round causes the crust to sublime, sloughing off as a mix of evaporating gold and gore. All dexterity damage is exchanged for constitution damage at the end of the round. This constitution damage may be healed normally.
Moderate Transmutation and Necromancy; CL 11th; Craft Wondrous Item, bestow curse, flesh to stone; Price 88,000 gp; Weight 0.5 lb.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
