Shindiira Misraria

SmartCheetah's page

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How about player private houses? We have info about buildings like hideouts, watchtowers and other "useful" city stuff, but how 'bout properties built by certain individuals (In city perimeter, of course)
I might be blind, but havent saw anything on that matter in this post :<

+ I don't know if it's truth, but don't like the idea of preset building sites. Preset areas are ok, but imho these should work like housing in Star Wars Galaxies. You've got that Grid, and you just place things in boundaries of your area.


Imho player private houses/properties shouldn't be lootable/accessible for any uninvited thief in any way. BUT, provided that we have "town buildings" like tavern, city hall, bank, granary or whatever - I would make them accessible for burglars. Hard and rewarding thing.
Just imagine new possibilities in the city vs. city warfare. Poisoning or looting their granary stocks? Sure, provided that burglars actually can get behind all protecting mechanisms undetected/unharmed. It will also make cities built more "strategically" where public buildings are under constant observation.
It shouldn't really hurt casuals and individuals who are worried about their own stuff. At the same time it makes intrigue and city/kingdom elements deeper.


Yep, sounds totally awesome. Especially player driven cities-kingdoms. I can already see all those intruges, politics and wars @.@ Mhrau! Count me in!

But I'm little curious about player towns. You guys mentioned workshops and other buildings, but what about player houses? I guess it might be little hard to accomadate eg. two hundreds of players in one city, with building for everyone(just imagine how much space it will take). Much more possible with connected districts or houses which can accomodate few different people(You know, like block of flats. Few rooms with corridor. Funny thing to have neighbors in MMO :D)

I always loved housing in the games. It improved my overall RP experience and well, I had that "little place" for myself to "relax" after adventuring/crafting. Age of Conan city system was little different. "Cities" were just buildings used by all citizens, without a real place for private person. That wasn't bad, but kinda missed the point. And totally missed the thing I was looking for.

So, will we see player private properties/rooms/flats in player cities?


I fell into instant love after last two Ryan posts. Count me into first 4500! ]:>

Casualization of the game isn't really the best idea if you want to hit at niche market(As few other people mentioned)
Casualization led mmo market to themepark, high-aiming WoW-competition which mostly fails. It's hard to start with so many features WoW has already(And comparing WoW on release to fresh games isn't really working. We're in 2012, not 2004)
Furthermore, I've got a feeling that some people in here can't see the good sides of partial loot system (And few others are calling it full loot for some reason >.>) and see it as a total game breaker. You want a living world with working economy, happy crafters and people MAKING the actual world with themepark rules? Have fun designing such a thing.

Back in a day when I played UO, we were losing whole our stuff on daily basis. That game was a lots of fun, because it doesn't took hours to get back on your feet. You guys just need to realize how different sandbox mmo is, compared to "Gather 20wolf paws and I'll lvl you up" thing.

Anyway, everything we might do now is just theorycrafting. We need to see that system in action to really judge it. It's too early to cross out the game just because you feel that "partial-loot" system(lets call it like that)will make it too hardcore. My advice - give it a shot anyway. Who knows, maybe you would love it despite that "punishing" fact?
Always look at the bright side of...river? :-x


Truth is you are not safe in Sandbox full loot games, nor in themepark games. I've seen a lot of griefing in World of Warcraft, playing on RP-PvP server. Problem is, that some people can't realize that, and when they see "lootable players", they instantly panic.
Actually, if you KNOW that you might lose something, you're way more careful with your actions. You won't rush to make -that quest- in -that area- because ye ain't assured that you have nothing to lose.
And I guess looting lawful corpse when in field of view of other people will get you flagged as well. That would make perfect sense.


At this point, I love all systems you guys are gonna implement into the game. But there is one thing that makes me curious. What about weapons/armor detoriation if we don't have full loot system? It might end up pretty bad for the economy if one guy will have that "great" crafted armor for years, without real need for buying new one. Full loot is harsh, yes, but maybe something what makes your items less effective after many repairs?

In themepark mmo's you just change your armor(repairing doesn't really matter) into better one, until you hit the best. But content patches are constantly adding new stuff into the game, so you are still going to change your things into something else sooner or later. In most sandbox mmo's it works pretty different, as crafters are big part of the economy and people often seek their service. If you won't have to change your items, group of crafters might find their lack of customers disturbing.


Baldr Sky wrote:

I've played skyrim but found its system shallow.

Lack of spells(even less than previous installments), npcs won't use certain spells against you, no "spell save/resistance," useless skill tree (such as speech that makes every vendor has 1000 more gold) that also make little senses, all builds end up the same (only difference is the magicka / stamina / health), etc,.

Got bored with it in 2 days, while I played Toee (with co8) for months.

Skyrim system is extremly shallow and broken. Some skills are overpowered, other are just useless. But there are other "skill" systems which can actually work. Moreover, you can come up with way different design of SS, which is actually similiar to levels, choosing specializations and other stuff with progress of your skill. It all depends on how Goblinworks are going to handle it.


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Onishi wrote:


The idea of mounts being killable, while I like it in theory, it does lead to challanges, primarally the part of where do they go when you dismount, if they are out and killable/stealable when you go into a dungeon... well then you completely negate the purpose of a mount, nobody will ever ride them anywhere except between towns, otherwise they will almost certainly be gone when you get back. Pets that can follow you anywhere though, I would see their deaths as being possible to be permanant, requiring you to buy a new one, or spend some good money reviving, too many games encorage regular suicide missions for pets so that you just pop them back after they die, if it takes a day tame/combat train a pet, that issue might go away. (I'm thinking more like a 12 hour AFK training option for pets, rather then 12 active hours staring at a bar to train the pet)

Imho they should handle mounts in similiar way to Red Dead Redemption. When you get off your horse/llama/unicorn/anything else it just stays there or helps you fight while you're around. After some time if it wasn't killed in your sight, it just disappears(To lower server stress and stuff)

If you want it to get back - you just use it, so your character whistles or whatever, and here we go - your mount rides to you from random direction. This way they won't die too often and it will be kinda more immersive than little cloud and voila - you're sitting on unkillable mount.
OFC there should be stables, abillity to train your mounts et cetera. More and more options in MMO is always a great thing.


pdboddy wrote:
SmartCheetah wrote:
We should also remember(Somebody came up with this point just while ago) that PFO PvP won't really look like WoW, as we don't deal with two fighting factions (which are red to each other by default)

Yes, instead it will be red vs blue vs yellow vs black vs green vs skull thingy vs...

Basically, it's a free for all.

But in case of factionless system punishments make sense, while killing a guy from enemy faction in red/blue is rather a "good and encouraged behaviour" :P


pdboddy wrote:

I think an interesting way to sort of bridge the PvP issue is to use a +1/-1 system. It could enhance roleplaying as well.

Each character could have a player-set group of guidelines. If your character hates thieves, for instance, for whatever reason, then you would give thieves a -1. Now, you wouldn't know if a person is a thief, mind you, unless they've told you, or you find out information somehow that the specific character is part of the Thieves Guild.

If a character has enough negatives, this could allow your character to take certain actions with a certain amount of impunity, but only if your character has enough knowledge. Actions could range from being able to yell for the guards to arrest the character, or hire an assassin to go after the character, or even go after the character yourself.

A player could also rate other characters with a +1/-1, but with a limit. The limit can be whatever arbitrary limit the game devs decide upon.

Yep, some kind of "reputation" stat will be very cool addition and might work for "flagging" PK'ers and being some kind of punishment for them (Like being able to use only player driven towns, bounties or other things which will discourage most PK'ers)

We should also remember(Somebody came up with this point just while ago) that PFO PvP won't really look like WoW, as we don't deal with two fighting factions (which are red to each other by default)


I think we should leave those things to Goblinworks totally. Fighting and discussing PvP vs. Non-PvP, Sandbox vs. themepark or whatever else in that matter is boring and old already, and we still can't get any compromise(And I'm quite sure we wont get any).
Truth is that going into extremes might end bad. Another WoW clone which has basicly nothing more to offer is pretty much doomed, looking at today MMO trends. True full-loot sandbox will become Counter Strike gang fest, so it's also doomed. Coming with something new, maybe ultimate mix of those two? This might actually work. We need to hear a word from design team - how they want to handle game systems to not make it too hardcore or too casual(IMO both are bad for a mmo game)
Someone was talking about PvP and corpse camping - there are many ways to discourage things like that (BTW: In WoW you don't have to resurrect at your body, but for some reason many kids thought it's the only "viable" option so they cried at the boards that someone keeps ganking 'em on PvP server. Silly) so it's not really a problem in PvP. Problem is when you can't really leave your city 'cause it means you will get owned by bunch of reds who just kill for fun. It hurts even more when all your stuff goes instantly to the ground.
People working at goblinworks have to come up with a solution to don't make that happen. To give some "space" for casuals as well as for those who liked pvp(But no mindless PK'ing)

Making servers highly customizable(more than just PvE/PvP/RP) might be the way to go. "You'd like to pvp, but don't want to get looted dry every time you die? Here you go, we got something for ya"
Problem is that I can't really see that happen. That would require dozens of work, balancing and other stuff. Just imagine a game with two differently working economies (Full loot economy and bond, easily rapairable items) crafting mechanics et cetera.


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First post here guys and gals, be gentle and sorry for my language. I'm not a native user of english :P
Cheetah MMO-wish list.

1: Customization.
Yeah. I love customization of all kinds. Customizing that sword I'm crafting? Sure! Customizing my character appearance? Hell yeah for that! Customizing the house I've built for myself? Of course. Customizing my mount, heraldry, UI and a lot of different things? Yep:>

2: Risk&Reward.
I always loved games which were kinda punishing you for doing stupid stuff. I'm not talking about making PFO so hardcore that you can lose everything because some jerk wanted to troll you. More like different consequences to your choices. Maybe full loot system is too kind for griefers, but detoriation and "random item + gold drop" on death? Or something like Insurance in Ultima Online, but cheaper. Anyway I don't like to see another game "Hey, you won't lose anything apart from 20seconds to get ressurected!" while I also don't want griefer and gang heaven (DFO, anyone?)
Player Killing should of course came up with major consequences when some kind of "loot system" is in the place.

3: Player Housing.
So little MMO's these days tries to make that thing happen. And if they try, it usually fails. Ultima Online and SWG did this in a very cool way but there was a major problem with crowds of houses.
And by player housing I don't mean just giving us option to place a building and nothing else. Customizing it, decorating with player crafted furniture and making a great spot for social/RP experience would be totally cool.

4: Experimenting.
Why every short sword must be the same as other short sword? Crafters should be able to experiment on them, adding different "stats" or "feats" to an item.
Eg. your crafted short sword might be "sharpened"&"balanced" while other might be "heavy"&"hardened". Different stats/statuses coming up with those lovely item feats.

5: Specializations.
I like the idea of skill based system, but there is one thing it normally lacks of. Specializations of some kind, so in example: One blacksmith might specialize in creating armors, while other one will be a great guy with weapons. How about going even deeper, and adding some kind of "skill talent tree" where you can choose different things as your skill progresses? Talents might vary, from mechanical things like "+X to armor value of platemails" or "-x% leather armor weight" to pure aesthetic things like "5 additional appearance patterns for plate helmets" et cetera.
What for, you will ask? I think it's a great idea for making different crafters a big name. You want some nice looking plate armor? You go to a crafter whose famous because of his specialization. Another one might specialize with polearms et cetera. That makes game way, way deeper. Of course it can work with all types of skills like magic/combat or stealth-related ones. You can just take a look at Skyrim which has system similiar to that.
I've written down how it might work back in a day(Love theorycrafting and designing things/systems). Can't find it tho' :(

6: Quests and instanced group content.
Bossfights and other things, but WITH actual quests, choices, consequences and RPG feel. How about standard, randomized "caravan" quest where players can get ambushed by randomized kind&number of monsters and story might go little different way every time you take quest like that? That was just the simpliest idea I came up with. Of course it might get harder with more "advanced" things.

7: Itemization
Big no to dozens of epic-legendary-purple items from bosses - which - sooner or later are used by everyone. Maybe ingredients(dragon scales in example) for crafters, gold, vanity things and magical stuff which actually can be crafted or even outcrafted?

8: Moderated RP servers
You know, just few people with option to mute/unmute or whatever else, just to keep players IC safe. I've got trolled in WoW by random people so many times while RP'ing. GM's weren't really helpful in this case, while they could mute those guys or do other stuff. It's pretty little problem anyway.

9: Monks!
Right!:>