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![]() Some of these may be old information for most people, but I haven't seen them mentioned yet in this thread and all of these have caught me by surprise at one point or another. -Dispel Magic no longer has an Area effect. It also no longer has a +10 maximum on the caster check. -Greater Dispel Magic has the Area effect, but can only remove 1 spell per 4 caster levels on the Targeted version. No more chance to strip off all the buffs from the evil wizard in one cast. -Criticals and Sneak Attacks work on almost everything, but Oozes, Elementals and Incorporeal Undead. -Mirror Image is mostly the same, but now if you randomly determine the attack is on the real person, but miss the attack roll by less than 5, you destroy an image. -Ray of Enfeeblement has a different duration and there's a save now. -Power Attack no longer has a variable attack penalty and is instead based on your Base Attack Bonus. The Damage Bonus is better than before when compared to the same penalty as 3.5. -Cleave and Great Cleave no longer require you to drop an opponent to gain additional attack(s), but you can never combine it with a full-attack so no more cleaves on iterative attacks. -Concentration checks are basically just caster level checks and the DCs are generally higher. (I've been playing Pathfinder for awhile now and for some reason, up until a week ago, I thought you were supposed to roll Spellcraft to make a Concentration check.) ![]()
![]() Lord Fyre wrote:
One of my players is an Oracle who worked as a Fortune Teller, but became so fed up with dire and miserable readings that she decided to sell her Harrow Deck and buy equipment to do something about the troubles in Westcrown. To rewrite the city's fate, so to speak. ![]()
![]() I just wanted to put in one last consolidated post with the entire system written down, including stuff that has arisen from the discussion. The following is the system I'm going to pitch to my players after we finish our current campaign. Additional review is still welcome, though. Name: NHEP Point System (Never Having Enough Points, borrowed/stolen from ProfessorCirno) Purpose: To remove Wealth as a source of Power from the game without actually removing Wealth or Power. Summary: PCs receive points at each level equivalent to 75% of their expected wealth. These can be used to purchase the same bonuses they could get from using gold to buy Big Six items like Rings of Protection or Belts of Strength. These items are completely removed from the game. Actual wealth is then freed up to be used to either buy items that are not so directly tied to PC power or for role-play purposes. The Table:
Level- Points
The points listed are not the amount gained at each level, but rather the total accumulated points for the given level. I list them this way because I intend to allow the PCs to redistribute their points at each level, if they wish. I can think of no exploits that might arise from this.
What you can spend your points on:
How to read this table: After each entry, the bonus and cost are written in brackets with the bonus first, then the cost. [+3/18] means a +3 bonus costs 18 points. Primary Melee Weapon: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50] [*+6/72] [*+7/98] [*+8/128] [*+9/162] [*+10/200]
Off-hand Melee Weapon: Same bonuses, costs and limitations as Primary, but applies to Masterwork weapon held in the off hand. Ranged Weapon: Same bonuses, costs and limitations as Primary, but applies to Masterwork ranged weapons. Armor: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [*+6/36] [*+7/49] [*+8/64] [*+9/81] [*+10/100]
Shield: Identical bonuses and costs as the armor enhancement, but applies to any masterwork shield worn by the PC. Unarmored Armor Bonus: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [+6/36] [+7/49] [+8/64]
Natural Armor Bonus: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50]
Deflection AC Bonus: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50]
Ability Scores: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [+6/36]
Saves Resistance Bonus: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] (Optional - Insight AC Bonus - Like a Dusty Rose Ioun Stone: [+1/5]) Spell Slots:
Spell Resistance: [SR 13+/Costs 10 per point of SR over 12, minimum 13, maximum of 12+Character Level]
But what about magic items like Holy Avengers and Celestial Armor?
:
These items still exist, albeit in an altered state. The enchantment bonus is removed and the price adjusted. The weapon or armor is still considered magical, still masterwork and keeps all properties other than those that can be purchased under this system. In a nutshell: Subtract the value of the enhancement bonus from the weapon or armor. For example:
Celestial Armor - This is +3 Chainmail. A +3 armor enchantment is worth 9000 gp. The armor loses the +3 enhancement bonus to AC, but all other properties remain. The price for Celestial Armor drops from 22400 gp to 13400 gp. Holy Avenger - This one is a little trickier. By the rules on p. 549 of the PRPG. The price of this weapon is probably 30% cheaper than it really should be because of its class and alignment requirements to be wielded properly. It's effectively a +7 weapon with some cool abilities. By my calculations, it should cost around 170000 gp if it did not require a LG Paladin to wield it properly. Remove the +7 and it becomes worth around 72000 gp before the cost reduction. After the cost reduction and adding the value of the masterwork weapon back in, I believe the weapon is now worth 51630 gp. In a nutshell: If the weapon or armor has an alignment or class restriction, subtract 70% of the cost of enhancement. Otherwise, you'll probably be making the item too cheap.
A note on the Robe of the Archmagi:
The Robe of the Archmagi gives an Armor bonus to AC, Spell Resistance, and a Resistance bonus to Saving Throws. These bonuses are all covered under this system and therefore should be removed from the item. However, all that leaves is a +2 to caster level checks to overcomes Spell Resistance and some negative levels if you put the Robe on and you are the wrong alignment. If you subtract the cost of these bonuses, by my calculations, this item is now worth about 5000 gp. The Robe of the Archmagi is one of those iconic magic items that have been delighting players for decades whenever it comes up as loot. It's still an item worth having for 5000gp, but it's hardly the exciting, iconic magic item that the party wizard hopes and prays for from level 1 onward. I'm of the opinion that additional abilities should be added to the robe to get it back to its original value. Maybe something like adding a +1 to the spell DCs of all spells from the wearer? I'd love to hear some ideas on that one.
Thanks for reading! ![]()
![]() I plan to offer my players an alternative to the existing magic item system in the next campaign. I'm basing this off a few facts, opinions and other people's ideas:
Why and how and I'm doing this:
-There is a similar system to what I propose: Innate Magic -About 75% of the loot handed out in an adventure path is in the form of what I call "+" gear. Sometimes called Big Six gear, it's all the stuff your character has to have to maintain the power curve. [AC, Attack, Ability Enhancement, and Saves.] -The difficulty of an encounter geared towards the assumption that PCs spend 75% of their wealth on such "+" gear. -It seems as though most people feel they are required to spend all of their character wealth on these items to stay above the power curve. -Most people think that being required to buy gear is Not Fun, and I tend to agree. -If these bonuses are necessary to maintain the power curve, then why not make it part of the Level-Up process rather than tieing power to wealth in this fashion. -If the bonuses received from loot are instead earned during Level-Up, then it really doesn't matter how much or how little the PCs receive in treasure, their power is tied much more closely to level rather than treasure.
I plan to completely eliminate all Big Six Items, both as treasure and as purchasable items. This will reduce looting quite a bit, but I believe will help to thoroughly lock PC power to their level. This table has been calculated from the Character Wealth Table on p. 399 of the PRPG. It is simply 75% of the wealth from each level, divided by 1000 and rounded to the nearest whole number.
The Table:
Level- Points 1----- 0 2----- 1 3----- 2 4----- 5 5----- 8 6----- 12 7----- 18 8----- 25 9----- 35 10---- 47 11---- 62 12---- 81 13---- 105 14---- 139 15---- 180 16---- 236 17---- 308 18---- 398 19---- 514 20---- 660 What you can spend your points on:
Enhancements: [Bonus/Point Cost] Primary Melee Weapon: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50] [*+6/72] [*+7/98] [*+8/128] [*+9/162] [*+10/200]
Secondary Melee Weapon: Same bonuses, costs and limitations as Primary, but applies to Masterwork weapon held in the off hand. Ranged Weapon: Same bonuses, costs and limitations as Primary, but applies to Masterwork ranged weapons. Armor: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [*+6/36] [*+7/49] [*+8/64] [*+9/81] [*+10/100]
Shield: Identical bonuses and costs as the armor enhancement, but applies to any masterwork shield worn by the PC. Unarmored Armor Bonus: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [+6/36] [+7/49] [+8/64]
Natural Armor Bonus: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50]
Deflection AC Bonus: [+1/2] [+2/8] [+3/18] [+4/32] [+5/50]
Ability Scores: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] [+6/36]
Saves Resistance Bonus: [+1/1] [+2/4] [+3/9] [+4/16] [+5/25] (Optional - Insight AC Bonus - Like a Dusty Rose Ioun Stone: [+1/5])
I would love to hear about any issues you think might come up from this. ![]()
![]() I've seen a lot of discussion on players being all but required to stick to the Big Six magic items at high levels of play, unable to branch out into the more exotic array of items out there. In my experience, this has always been the case. In case you don't know what I mean by Big Six: Magic Weapons, Magic Armor, Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, Stat-boost items, Bracers of Armor Virtually all magic items looted that are not one of the Big Six, are immediately sold to fund the improvement or purchase of Big Six items. Lots of suggestions have been proffered, but the necessity is built right into the game. I talked it over with my players and we've all agreed to try the following THREE house-rules in an effort to un-trivialize other magic items. I'll try and keep this brief so I don't lose people to boredom half-way through. The following rules only apply to the Big Six, plus the Amulet of Mighty Fists, which is really just like a Weapon. Rule 1: Static Cost vs. Power
Rule 2: Power is tied to Level
Basically, there is a table for each of the Big Six items, giving a plus based on the character's level. I could list the tables I've worked up so far, but I figure most people might prefer to write their own. Essentially, the "plus" is loosely tied to what level Wizard would be required to create an item of that "plus" under the old rules, then modified as necessary. Rule 3: Modularity
Rings of Protection can be stuck onto other rings. They are the one exception to the rule that says "Only 2 rings per character." Like weapons and armor, the bonus changes depending on character level. Amulets of Natural Armor become Chains of Natural Armor. You can remove the amulet from it's chain and hang it onto this chain, instead. The Cloak of Resistance becomes a Clasp of Resistance, any cloak can be held on with this clasp so you can have your Save bonuses and wear your Cloak of Arachnia, too. Stat-boost items and Amulets of Mighty Fists are probably not modular except where the mix with other modular items. For example, you could hang either a Periapt of Wisdom OR your Amulet of Mighty Fists from your Chain of Natural Armor. Similar to the Ring of Protection, the Armor Bonus could be enchanted onto other bracers, or added like an Augment crystal. Like the others, the bonus changes by level. So what is this supposed to accomplish?
Also, the modular nature of these items allow the players to actually use the items they come across, rather than sell them off because they don't want to give up bonuses to wear them. Won't this just escalate power creep?
Won't this dramatically increase the amount of treasure the PCs have?
I'm running an AP and it calls for a monster with a +4 Vorpal Halberd. What's that mean in terms of all these rules?
I wrote way more than I thought I would. I'd like to hear thoughts on this, though it's probably too radical a change for most people. Disclaimer: I'm posting this as a house-rule suggestion. It's probably too radical to consider as a genuine suggestion for Pathfinder RPG. |