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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber. 92 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.



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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tithron wrote:
Glad to see more thoughtful and positive threads. I agree that there needs to be some serious formating and rebalancing updates in some areas. But I love the core game engine.

Exactly. The bones of this system are amazing IMO. I like the basics of just about everything. It's just a number of balance/number tweaks and formatting stuff so far. And even for the formatting after reading/skimming through the book a couple of times it isn't even that bad.

I feel like A LOT of people are comparing 2e to 1e especially in numbers and overreacting before we even see how it all works in play, and then acting like this is the final product. I'm genuinely excited and have high hopes for the final product. I think it's gonna be something really special, a blend of PF, 4e and 5e; taking some of the best parts of all three and offering us something amazing.


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So before I begin with my thoughts I will say that I tend to play more 5e nowadays so I may be biased. I'll also point out that the entire system changed so the whole "omfg nerfed" and number related stuff can't be judged fairly until the game is actually PLAY tested and not read-tested. Anywho...

All the terminology and cross referencing: I think this issue is mostly to do with this being a played book and a new system and formatting. I hope (and believe) that in the full release we'll get a better layout and format with less flipping around and everything will be clearer. Yes it's annoying right now but it's not a deal breaker and it's not like, for the most part, mechanics need to change to address most of this. That said the terminology on some stuff needs to be cleaned up a little.

Action economy: Personally I'm really liking this system. It's easy to grasp and provides a lot of room for flexibility. Seems solid.

Character creation: I like the process here as well and the race+class+background provides an interesting approach to stats, which I'm really digging so far.

Ancestries: I miss calling them races but that's not that important. I like the setup even if the feats are somewhat underwhelming in a lot of cases. I think there needs to be some fine-tuning here. As for the Half-Elf and Half-Orc issue, I think it's a cool twist to be a modifier for humans. It opens up a lot of room for options potentially but again needs some tuning.

Background: I'd like to see more and more skill feats/skills tied to each one. Not a big change to implement and, given that this is a played version, I can see that being addressed or changed.

Classes: Oh boy. This is a mixed bag for me. Without playing everything I can't really say whether I like the way it works or not. There's some potential balance and utility problems throughout based on a few read-throughs but there's also a lot of cool stuff. I really love the idea and set up of class feats. Some may need to be moved around and tweaked or changed but that's a given for any playtest. I've seen a lot of complaints about how basic a lot of them are but this is the ground floor basic ass 101 level of class mechanics and abilities here. Ultimately it comes across to me as a cool build your class type thing where you choose the abilities and moves you want your character to have. A very cool idea with a lot of potential that, with some tweaking, I think would work VERY well.

Some stand outs for me though:
Alchemist makes for an interesting base class but I'd like the ability to make it more/less healer based or bomb based or mutagen based. That said their reliance on resonance is a huge issue here. I wanna see Alchemist kept as a core class and it's an awesome idea, but I feel it has 3 identities, none of which are translated well and it just isn't working as it stands now.

Barbarian - Love the totems and, while 3 on 1 off seems a little weird (get angry for a bit then a second of tired then go again?) it's a good way to make sure rage gets used more and fulfills some of the class fantasy. Using class mechanics more is almost always more fun. Also did I mention that I really like the totems? I really like the totems.

Bard - I haven't had a chance to look through Bard as much as I would like and have some mixed feelings on what I've sat down with. At least in theory I like the ideas and themes of the muses, with the scholar, performer and ADD master of skills.

Cleric - Another class I haven't been able to really read through and focus on (it's been a very busy couple of days). I like the channel versatility tho.

Druid - Ouch. No. Bad. I mean the super limited timing on animal form? This IS a straight up nerf regardless of how the new system works. Druids are iconic shapeshifters and now you can do it VERY few times a day for a minute at a time. Between those two restrictions what's the damn point? I'm still unsure about animal companions and j ist minions in general but at least the 1 action to command your animal to use 2 might be decent action economy and the work together benefits are cool and unique. But Druid seems to need some love in a bad way.

Fighter - I really like this. Class feats work VERY well here IMO. It feels very right. Also the enhancement/open/press abilities or terms or whatever are super cool IMO. Honestly this might be the best version of a fighter I've seen. It might be too early to day that but damn I'm actually hyped for this.

Monk - Similar to fighter. I like the set up at least and the feats essentially equating to abilities works well here.

Paladin - Not much to say right now

Ranger - Same as above

Rogue - Haven't looked through as well as others but looks good. I've been spoiled a little by how sneak attack works in 5e and how much easier it is but that isn't a big deal really.

Sorcerer - Really loving how bloodlines work. Really really awesome IMO.

Wizard - Not much to say at present

Skills: Cool that skills are now broken down by action. Not cool that recalling knowledge takes an action. Again some of it needs some tweaking but I like it overall.

Feats: Some good some bad. Battle Medic bolstering isn't a great move IMO but we'll see.

Equipment: Denting - Ehh. Cool idea, missed execution? Full Plate - Just worse than 1/2 plate now? Weapon Traits - Uhh that's a lot of stuff. It's cool in theory but I'll wait to see it in practice.

Magic and Magic Items - I haven't looked over this much due to the sheer amount of content. Also, it doesn't mean as much since there's a limit to what one can glean outside of actual play and practice. I like the idea of the four types of magic tho. And I'm just not getting into magic items right now. I will say I'm cautious about resonance. We'll see how it works out but I'm not entirely sold on the idea so far.

Archetypes and Multiclassing - So I REALLY like these. In theory. It's a VERY cool way to do prestige classes. For Archetypes...it's very much not the same as 1e. It doesn't modify a class which...I mean like I said with Alchemist, I miss it there. In other classes the way feats work means it's already kinda worked in. The pirate is whatever and Cavalier is cool but I'd like the see what else Paizo has got. Multiclassing...I mean...it's a very awesome idea and potential way to do it but I don't think the balance is quite there yet. On the one hand the half X and half Y is totally missing as an option and the X with a splash of Y is too weak to warrant it. It needs some work and balance.

All told I'm very excited to try 2.0 and see the final product. It has some issues to work out, sure, but most things do. The systems themselves though seem fantastic and, with work, I can see 2e far surpassing 1e after some changes. I know there's a lot of knee jerk reactions and frustration with some parts and A LOT of comparing to 1e, especially with magic and numbers, but I feel like that might change once people start actually playing and getting used to things. And I'm sure any other problems will mostly be ironed out before release. Overall quite happy with 2e!


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Verzen wrote:
Quote:

There's a bloodrager archetype than can cast touch spells as a swift action if they can get their skin to make contact with their targets by giving them real big hugs, slaps or tickles.

No joke.

And this sealed the trolling suspicion. Well played. ;)

No, but really: Blood Conduit. 5th level "Spell Conduit (Su).

Amulet of the Blooded:
Each different type of amulet of the blooded grants its wearer powers from one sorcerer bloodline, but makes him vulnerable to attacks and effects that target creatures with the appropriate bloodline (such as a blood-hunting weapon). If a creature that already has the associated bloodline wears the amulet, the wearer does not gain the abilities listed below; instead, the effective level of his bloodline powers increases by 2. This effect does not stack with other abilities that increase the effective level of bloodline powers.

I will say though that it doesn't give all of the abilities/the full version. More like a watered down sample.


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Tels wrote:

Halgra: YOU'RE A ROTTEN LITTLE BASTARD WITH NO SELF CONTROL!! GET OUT OF MY HOUSE UNTIL YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR BLOOD LUST!!!!

...

Here, I packed some cookies for your tip. Be safe and write home! Mummy loves you!

^unofficial headcannon of how that scene went down.

[Edit] Also, Oloch totally gets carepackages from his mother. Including a pretty cutting hat.

I love you. This right here wins everything. Forever.

But really EPIC iconic. CN bloodthirsty far from good warrior first priest second character. LOVE. IT.


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The boots, the cloak, the rapier, the outfit, the hair, the look, the flair! I can't take it *swoon*

But seriously, love this character. Perfect amount of the two parent classes while still being it's own class with tons of flavor. And dat backstory! Totally using that in my next campaign near the sea.

This came out really really good. Then again, the only ACG classes I'm worried about in any manner are the Investigator and the Slayer. And that's only because I plan to use them to fade the Rogue out of PC existence, becoming an NPC thieves/assassins guild class (poor Merisiel). And that's strictly mechanics.

Anyway, keep up the amazing work!


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
MrSin wrote:
Cpt.Caine wrote:
If I wanted to play a smart, puzzle solver, I'd just play a Ninja (better than a Rogue, but still not "good"), an Inquisitor (great at non-combat encounters, and a lot of potential in combat) or a Lore Warden (duh); all with a 14-16 INT.

Actually that list goes on a for a while, including to alchemist, bard, and wizard. Some of those classes not only have better or more utility but some of them come with better combat ability too!

Cpt.Caine wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
A) It should not be strictly better than the parent class at everything the parent class does (as the previous version was)
I'll disagree with this; when the parent class is bad, the child class should be better at everything.
Another way to look at it is to compare the investigator to all the other classes rather than just the rogue, or even without any classes and just giving it face value. Imo, it comes up subpar.

Exactly. Don't let the deadbeat dead end low class parent kill off the Inquisitors potential! It's time to just let go of considering the Rogue while balancing anything. It's already broken. That ship has sailed. Don't let it hold back other incredible classes oozing flavor and potential.


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I fear I hold the unpopular opinion that most of these are amazing.

What exactly did people want instead of these? Sure they might not all be totally original but so what? What hasn't already been done in some form across some fantasy game? And really, what's wrong with having similarities to already published classes? Did you ever want a magic barbarian (Bloodrager) or non-Paladin divine melee (Warpriest)? Have you ever wanted to ditch the animal and magic of Ranger in favor of pure combat efficiency (Slayer)? Would you like to use your fists without the steadfast discipline of the Monk (Brawler)? What about the other way around and adding more animal-centric abilities to really make a non-Summoner pet class (Hunter)? Ever wanted to feel like a Wizard but not be restricted by all the rigidity (Arcanist)? Wanna play a Gunslinger but the DM won't allow firearms (Swasbuckler)? Dislike the massive support focus and versatility of the Bard and/or would prefer to be a bit better in combat (Skald)? Want to get in touch with the spirits or play an interesting new caster (Shaman)? If your answer to any of these questions has been yes, you're in luck!

Aside from Investigator (which seems to trump the Rogue at everything) these are all awesome additions. I just think the Investigator feels like the real Rogue class while Rogue now feels more like a Thief-type class with stealth and sneak attack.

These look like solid classes. Alternate classes sure, but solid. But so what if they seem like alternate classes? They can be a bit niche but at the same time, I want to play all of them and all of them provide a good option without relying on either the sub-par multiclassing or a half-success because you're trying to change the entire class with an archetype.

And that's okay. These classes seem to fill the alternate rolls that just couldn't be done with archetypes or done well with multiclassing. Personally, I CANNOT WAIT for this book to come out.


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I can't stand the 'auto-fill' character sheets like HeroLab (if it's what I'm thinking it is, I've tried a bunch of sheets). First, it feels lazy and impersonal. I like actually working on the character. Besides, the math is never that hard. Second, I like being able to hold up a sheet with hand-written notes. Again, it feels more personal.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned (started with D&D 3rd edition) and have always loved having a physical sheet that is my character. Eventually it would get so worn and stained you would need a new one. I liked having a series of worn and stained sheets. It told a story. That was a food stain from the pizza during the epic boss fight atop the mages tower of Redcliff. That was from when Sneaky spilled his soda in the middle of the time-travel boss fight in the Pre-Fields of Havensforth while they were still the Fortress of Aldain the Black King (he wore black adamantine armor and had a black adamantine evil weapon, was undead and had a black dragon, not being racist as one of my friends thought when I first told them about it).

Having a physical sheet with notes, lots of eraser marks and stains and such tells a story. I like my papers marked up and worn down. That said, I cannot wait for these sheets. Would have been nice to have options for Piecemeal armor and Defense rather than AC (and the alternate HP rules) but even so, I like having a space for everything. I always complain about sheets being too bunched together or not having enough space or options.


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Todd Stewart wrote:
ThatEvilGuy wrote:


Very cool, awesome flavor. I definitely can't wait to get my hands on this.
You've made a freelancer very happy, just saying. :D

I love love love this book. It is literally the single greatest D&D or Pathfinder purchase I have ever made. The actual product even far exceeds all the hype and excitement.

Such awesome and amazing flavor. The descriptions are awesome and each race has so much flavor, so many options that each race and every character feels very unique and interesting. Every race has tons of variety and options and feats.

Actually, I LOVE the feats and stuff. The feat chains allowing races to change is awesome. Hobgoblins grow more...commander-ish, Drow become nobles, Dhampir become more Vampiric, Aasimar become more angelic, Tieflings become more demonic. God so much awesome packed into such a great book. I would have easily paid $60+ for this much great product.