Really, to pimp out another product (and possibly a better way to go for this), I present to you, Iron Tortious' adamantine Strike, from the Dreamscarred Press Warder/Path of War.
Adamantine Shell:
Discipline: Iron Tortoise (Counter); Level: 8
Prerequisites: 3 Iron Tortoise Maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
By seemingly empowering his shield with his will and
perfectly setting himself against an attack, the Iron Tortoise
master may attempt to render almost any attack
against his person harmless. The initiator makes an opposed
attack roll using his base attack bonus plus shield
bonus to AC, if successful negate the attack. On a failed
opposed attack roll, instead gain DR 50/- against that attack.
Obviously tone it down, as DR 50/- is silly, but have it be an opposed attack roll with dodge bonuses plus BAB, once per round? It isn't an auto deflect, and if it misses have it give like DR 3-5/-? seems fair enough
I feel like this class needs a class feature to help make it pop. If you look at the Magus, it has Spell Combat and Spell Strike, as both very iconic things it can do. As it stands, you took the Cleric's 3 levels of casting away, and gave it bonus feats, slower channeling and the poor man's domains for.... martial weapon proficiency, a few bonus feats and a self buff that only lasts for one weapon.
It has all of the downsides of both the Cleric and the Fighter, with none of the upsides. It needs some unique mechanics to make it stand out.
The issue I have with the hunter is it just feels like an inquisitor archetype rather then it's own base class. Animal Focus is just the poor man's Judgement, giving less of a bonus usually and not lasting as long (granted if a combat is lasting more then a minute, something has went wrong), Instead of a domain you get an animal companion (which a domain can get you but...). When you hit second, you'd get track (Dohohoho), and instead of cunning initiative or detect alignment, you get wild empathy... And even at third.... you get.... teamwork feats... plus... basically solo tactics.
I guess if that's what you're going for, it should be fine, however I do feel like an Inquisitor to the animal domain can fill that niche a little later on (which if you wanna fill it sooner that works, if that's the purpose of the class hey, I can't complain), but I don't feel like it captures the name of the class very well.
Just curious, for the next books in the series/Ultimate Psionics, do you think you're going to add more re flavorings to Psionics? I don't mind being able to refluff it myself, but I'd almost want a bit more built in for the curmudgeons who demand rules to every bit of flavor. If it's too much work, I totally understand as it seems like quite a bit for a small amount of people wanting something like it.
Admittedly, that build in specific I was making alot of choices that would only affect the numbers upwards (Elemental Strike, Boar Style/Fuse Style), and you'd be able to pick up at least Light Armor Kata/I probably dumped the wrong stats for that.
Dragon Style basically adds a weapon specialization worth of damage until you hit 6 str, where it'd add +6. The only worry I have is that Rapid shot/Manyshot were specifically disallowed with Flurry itself on the Zen Archer Monk. The Build itself is probably sub-par in many ways, it was just a medium to see how Rapid/Many interacted with it.
I was just curious on the Rapid/Many was all, I'm sure allowing style feats with weapons won't do anything of harm.
Hmm, this isn't right, I'm averaging 115 damage a round for round 1 (where you set up your styles), and 133 after (using a ki point for an extra attack), with decent pluses (+9/+9/+9/+9/+4) on a 20 point buy character with Archery, and an Initiative mod of +11... I dunno if I fully agree with the ability to add Style feats to any weapon, because ranged weapons make it very abusive. Admittedly, this is with ALOT of min maxing, and if anyone was doing this in an actual game, you could probably safely sucker punch them in the mouth.
Did you run into a build like this at all during playtesting or nah?
This is the Build:
1st
1E Fighting Style (Bow)
2E Flurry
3E Insightful Strike
1T Feat (Point Blank)
2T Feat (Precise)
1F Rapid Shot
2nd
1E Ki Pool
1T Style Master (Dragon Style)
2T Style Master (Dragon's Ferocity)
I'm guessing the rules as written for Medusa's Wrath would make the feat read as this instead of what it usually says.
Medusa's fist:
"Whenever you use the full-attack action and make at least one attack with anything that uses your Special Attack Bonus, you can make two additional attacks with anything that uses your special attack bonus at your highest base attack bonus. These bonus attacks must be made against a dazed, flat-footed, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious foe."
For Improved Critical it doesn't change the weapon itself but the wielder, so I'd say yes, since it says exactly "Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.", not the weapon's threat range. A little weird on the wording side, but yeah.
As an aside, knowing that I can use Style feats and have it apply to my weapon instead opens a lot of avenues, such as allowing Boar Styles extra bleed to ranged damage, or even adding STR.5 from Dragon's Ferocity to Ranged. I'm not sure on the balance behind that (I shudder to think what a ZAM can do with an additional half str on their arrows), but it's there.
There's an additional issue I've realized, and that is that the Flurry Edge allows you to use Rapid Shot and Many Shot with Flurry, is that intended? It'll end up as an awful lot of ranged attacks, and that might end up getting abusive (Especially if you can Add Dragon's Ferocity to it), but otherwise it seems fine. I'm sure you ran into this in playtesting and have a response, just I'm curious if it actually came up, since the ZAM can already out ranged DPS most things (Fighting Evil things as a Paladin notwithstanding), and being able to get an extra two shots might push it over (7 shots at 6th level burning a ki point and while hasted), but it might not, as well.
Review posted. Glad to see Tripod Machine back, I actually made a review for the Fist Full of Denarii wayyyy back which would have been my first review but the site ate it, so it's glad to see an older company releasing fresh content.
Posted my review. As far as it goes, the rogue could be interesting, but I feel like you'd want to roll the Ninja in there too, but Rogue Glory is doing a similar thing. Being able to get the Ninja's ki pool as opposed to the joke known as the Ki Pool Rogue talent would be good too, but balancing that could be a bit of a sticky wicket since at first level the Rogue gets wayyyy more at first level then most classes.
I'm a little more in favor of the Rogue then the Monk, but I also might be biased a little in that I feel the Rogue needs a little bit more of a boost then the Monk, since the Monk has gotten better with new stuff coming out, but the Rogue has just gotten worse since everybody can do everything he can do (and possibly better).
I have to say, as someone who normally really dislikes the fighter (the underpowered parts plus the fact that it doesn't really do the whole "master of all arms" thing that well at all), I am VERY impressed at how this changes the core class. Normally, whenever someone asks at my playgroup on "How to make a good fighter", I usually point them in the direction of another class saying that they'll probably not able to get it done what they wanted/there were better options at a class that just "fought things".
Review to come soon, however I'd like to say this is an amazing job at this. I would have preferred it be organized in a similar way as Alexander Augunas mentioned but that's just a petty complaint to such a job well done.
On the regards about feats vs talents, alot of the talents seem dependent on feats, but not vice versa. Besides Staple feats (Hi Power attack/TWF if you're doing that kind of build), I don't see why you'd feel underpowered in a build with just talents.
Again, wanna say amazing job, when I get the chance this is DEFINITELY up on the review queue.
Also; while I'd hate to post again about something inane, I'd feel like I need to mention that the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype for the Witch allows it to use CON as it's modifier for it's hexes as well when they are changed. So while I do agree that it shouldn't be able to do all those things as well, I'd just like to add that I don't think it can ever cast as well as a wizard due to the fact that it's a half caster. Hell, the Magus itself can't for that reason, along with the fact that it's at a much slower spell casting track (getting it further away from the Wizard/less spells per day not counting the arcane pool.).
Again, I'm extremely sorry about bothering you with all of this, I just suppose these are observations I'm just making is all :)
Wow, didn't expect to see a response so soon! Thank you for the timely response, haha. Again a huge fan of the class, to not completely blast it down, of course. I'm a bit of an optimizer myself but I'd like for a class to not be overpowered as well. I did change the rating mid course which I will fully admit too, but that was after much more reading/ideas.
For the minor text errors very good to know they are just little mistakes instead of something completely wrong. I know the feeling with the Sorcerer error, as I've made similar errors myself in making some homebrew content. I do prefer the name Hellion Powers, but I might be in the minority for that as well :P
As far as it goes with a few other points;
I can fully understand the issue with making the Metal Fetish take an extra level. I didn't even think of comparing it to Arcane Armor Training (which uses wayyy more action economy), but like you said, it seems like it'd be fair at that point. I didn't even think of it like that, so thanks for putting it in a way I could understand :)
The issue with the MAD is that consider the Hexcrafter, in some cases (Hello Dervish Dance), it can only dependent on two abilities (though in Dervish Dance I think that was the mistake). Since it has the uses the Witches spell list, for most cases unless it's using CHA dependent spells (see; anything with saves), it can get away with not exactly dumping CHA, but having it at 16 for the maximum (which I guess magic items can supplement). Also, you make the exact same error as my GM, the Paladin uses CHA for it's casting now :P. All joking aside, I do understand what you mean, though it does feel like an Alchemist would moreso go against your point, as it allows those stats while suffering to still be relevant, allowing it to "nova" as a non spellcaster/make the ones that aren't even better (see; Vivisectionist).
I can understand if you wouldn't want it to outpace the witch in hexes (a very very real concern), however I feel like it should at the very least outpace the Hexcrafter in it, being the main reason I suggested for it to receive Major Hexes at a certain level. Of course if it outpaces the Witch (though really I feel like the witch transitions from Buffer/Debuffer > full spell casting god very well) that wouldn't be very good. At the level it'd be learning Major hexes, a Witch would have been freezing people solid for 5 levels (which is fine), and a Hexcrafter for 3. This issue might just be Paizo's error however, nobody is perfect :)
However though, I think giving it a few exclusive spells wouldn't be too bad. As a buffer/debuffer, I'm sure it'd LOVE something like an Arcane Form of Doom or something to that effect. At the same time, giving it it's own spell list would have alot more work required (and alot more updating, which must be VERY hard considering how many classes SGG has made), so again I can understand it.
I am rather curious how it fared against a Hexcrafter Magus in playtesting, it feels like it'd be slightly behind as the Magus can do the same amount of hexes (I guess total if they used their feat to take a hex at EVERY POSSIBLE level, the Hexcrafter would have a total of one less), but didn't have the Magus kit to fall back on in case of "oops". It of course not being as good at hexes, as well.
I suppose the builds you were testing were different from the one I'm imagining too, mine being more of a "Misfortune/Evil Eye/Cackle Swing" build vs more specialties.
I'm very very glad to have a response to this in such a timely fashion. Very classy from the developers/everyone. I can't wait to see the exclusive Major Hexes, and I'm absolutely sure they'll wow me :)
Wrote a review on this, a huge fan of it though :)
Original Review:
Original title: Very interesting class suffering from slight editing errors/being underpowered
The Hellion is Super Genius Games latest class, designed by Owen KC Stephens. The PDF that contains it spans 11 pages, with a 2 column per page. It contains a cover page, a credits page and an OGL License leaving about 9.5 pages for content. Onto the Crunch!
The Hellion is a D8 Hit Die class with a 3/4th's BAB and a good Will and Fort save. It has medium spell casting progression, very similar to the Bard/Inquisitor/Magus, it has 4 skills + int mod per level, a general wizard-esq pool of class skills and starts out with 5d6 worth of gold. It has it's own set of weapons it's proficient with, containing all simple weapons, the hand axe, flail, sap, scimitar, short sword, trident and whip, which is a very interesting and flavorful weapon set, seeming very brutal. It is proficient with light armor and doesn't incur the normal arcane spell failure in it. It can take a Hellion Talent (we'll get into those later) that allows it to ignore the Arcane Spell Failure but doesn't give it medium armor proficiency. Assuming that's a bit of a text error, which this is the first of many.
It's spell casting is very interesting as it contains the spells and patrons of the witch but follows a much slower progression. This sadly does not give it access to stronger spells like the other Half Casters get. I'd have preferred if it got its own spell casting list/was able to use witch and patron's to get higher level spells, leaving it the option to take much stronger spells if it wanted. Also; at a point, it refers to the class as the Sorcerer (At each new sorcerer level).
It gets a Bonded Object like a wizard. I really really enjoy what they did with the Bonded Object, allowing you to get a benefit depending on what you decide to make your bonded object. It gives a flavorful reason to choose what you use as your bonded object, and if you lose it, you can't get your spells, very similar to a witches familiar/it's almost impossible for you to cast spells (DC20+spell's level just like a wizards). A flavorful way for a GM to light a fire under the players to get them going.
The main draw to the Hellion is of course, the Hexes. It gets Hexes at every other level like the Witch. It has a few unique hexes to itself, the most notable being Execration. It at 15th (!) can eventually take a Major hexes and completely skips out on Grand Hexes. It makes me sad because there aren't any Unique or Major Hexes to it. As another user mentioned, it uses INT for it's hex DC's, but I'm assuming that's an error as it'd make it pretty MAD, Also, on the Table: Hellion, it mentions Major Hex, but doesn't make any mention of it, which is an error I'm assuming.
The most unique feature to the Hellion, is their Hellion Talents, which are various abilities that enhance various parts about them. Depending on the Hellion Talent you take, you can be using medium armor, or doing more damage to cursed enemies. Very cool and very flavorful. The only fault I have with them, is that there isn't a feat to take extra ones. Also on the Table, it mentions something called “Hellion Power” which isn't mentioned again.
I'll admit that the name Hellion Talent sounds kind of lame, it makes sense for the Rogue's abilities to be called Rogue talents, but the Hellions? I'd prefer something else, but that's just me.
The Capstone Ability for the Hellion, the Hellex is REALLY cool. Whenever someone fails a save on a spell of yours, you can use a Hex on them for free. Flavorful and super cool. A little “Win More”, but still very cool, especially as the strongest it gets are 6th level spells.
Of course the Hellion would draw comparisons to another Class with a (somewhat) similar ability, the Hexcrafter Magus. As it's direct competitor pretty much, the Hexcrafter has much more in the way of options as it's able to take Major Hexes much earlier, and eventually Grand Hexes. All in all, the Hellion has wayyy less juice then Hexcrafter.
In my own opinion with years and years of game developing experience*, I'd suggest to allow the Hellion to take Hellion Talents as feats, and instead of getting Major Hexes at 15th, allow them to get them at 11th (needing to blow a feat on them to get them before the Hexcrafter), allowing them to still be behind the witch in that regard, but still the second best at them. Giving them Grand Hexes as an option I wouldn't think was too bad either, but maybe I'm biased as well. Also; allowing Hellions to take Hellion talents with feats would be cool too.
All in all, this a very flavorful class, with a bit of a power problem. I love the flavor of it, and I love the abilities it gets (the Devious Hex would be something I would always be using, and getting super mad when ever it happened to me), but it just lacks the punch of similar classes. If it were to get a bit of a juice and the text errors, this would be bumped up to a 5, as it stands, it's a 2.5 lowered to a two.
*I have never ever worked on a game, ever.
Edit:
While I am keeping the original review up (For posterity's sake), Owen KC Stephens has commented on various issues, putting the Kibosh on most if not all of my concerns. Bumping the star review to 4, possible a 5 when the new version comes out so I can totally review it :)
