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When I started playing D&D about 12 years ago, the DM combined 1st and 2nd edition rules and ran his own high powered story that lead into the infamous H4: The Throne of Bloodstone. I have been through H4 three times before 3rd edition came out.

I recently aquired a copy of the adventure and am working on converting it to 3.5 (with beef ups for the lower demons and such) to use as an epic level adventure for my campaign.

The problem I'm having is that in 1st demons are listed by type, ie Type 1 Demons, Type 2 Demons, ect., and without ever having access to first edition manuals like my first DM< I have no idea which demons are which type. There are mention of Vrocks in a description, but with multiple 'Types" present that didn't help either.

SO PLEASE, can any of the old school gamers please post which demon types are which type of demon? I appologise in advance to any 'old' offenses <grin>. Thank you!


First let me say I think this is an awesome adventure and I'm enjoying running it (we had to quit right outside the last room). It also fit really well for me because the group hates monkeys. I'm running it as a side quest to the AP to help the party get back to the proper level. Do to the Lucky Monkey encounter, most the players don't care much for them. One PC actually has a true hatred of gorilla types though do to a bad encounter with gorillions, ending in his death. (I let the player bring the PC in from another campaign I could no longer run). This made it the perfect side quest for me.

Anyways, I wanted to point out the sorcerer is listed as casting invisibility and being positioned near the anvil. However Tellax has cast invis purge, with a radias that covers the whole room. Since Tellax would enter the altarroom before Shamok would cast invis, I decided he wouldn't of wasted the casting.

For those of you who have the Miniatures Handbook, I replaced Tellax's Summon Monster 6 with Planar Ally. With this spell he can summon an Aspect of Demogorgon. It adds more 'feel' in my opinion. The pupose of summoning a demon to fight is still served, you get to use a cool demon whose figure you may have from Archfiends, and you can also rule the standard 1+ rounds of negotiation be waived since this is an aspect of the demon whose temple is being raided at the moment.

{Evil DM Grin}


When reading over the submission guidelines for Critical Treats I came across a couple questions.

The guidelines say limit your submission to a strict 750-1000 words. How do stat blocks play into this? Do they not count or do only the words count? What about when righting out the SA and SQ or a creature that has a long description of it's abilities?

The article I wish to submit uses a feat from Complete Warrior. Obviously the feat would be reprinted so the Threat would be useable to those without the source. Does the feat apply to the word count? Also in school 1 and 2 letter words, plus 'the' weren't to be counted on word count based essays, etc. How specific is Paizo on the 'strict 750-1000' word count?

My main concern is that I have a great history and tactics section that is hard to cut down without leaving a vagueness that could very well get the idea trashed. However when adding in the feat description and the word portions of his stat block the count is going to be kind of high (not necessarily over 1000), and this is without knowing if the numbered portions of the stat block count. Also I plan to submit a possible web enhancement on the guy. This optional information makes the villain much more usable but is completely optional. Will I been 'penalized' for including this extra portion since it will place me above the 1000 word count?

I know this can be a 'by the case' kind of question but I don't want to give away my ideas on the open forum. If Paizo needs more information to answer my messages please post where to direct my email and/or email me (I have automatic Spam deletion so I'd prefer you to post as well as email in case you don't go to my mailbox).

Thank you for your time.


I was wondering if we might see Hookface's lair in the AP2. I would love to send my party exploring into the lair. It's easy to deal with Hookface's involvement in AP1 with a campaign seed sidebar.

If Hookface survived the AP1 than the party encounters her in her lair. If Hookface was destroyed use the same stats listed as her mate who took over her lair after her death.

It's even possible to advance her an age category to throw off players who were in the first AP who believe they know all she can do. Also since she had many offspring a few lower aged dragons and half-dragons could be fun as well.


Not that Secrets of the Soul Pillars is a bad adventure but here is yet another villian's errors.

First off what kind of naga was Xail. It might of been handy to know which type of naga he was before the bone naga template was added. Even the example creature in Serpent Kingdoms says what type of nage in the heading.

Xail casts spell as a level...level...something or other sorcerer. After looking for the type of naga used to check against and finding it not listed I had to look at all the other nagas. This was a very bad error because I didn't realize no listed caster level until we were in the fight. All other nagas have a caster level 2 less than thier HD so I'll assume Xail is a 13th level caster. Oh wait he has to be at least 14th level to have 7th level spells. That would be 16HD or changing all the spell section.

Wait, a 14th level human sorcerer with crap hp, no special monster abilities, etc is a CR 14 but Xail is a CR11??!!?? How can that be with 14th level casting ability, naga and bone naga traits, etc. Again, lets reference the base creature that we don't know.

Looking at all the other nagas they all have a CR of 1 less than thier HD (which is also 1 higher than thier caster level). The bone naga template further increases the base CR+1. If Xail is a 14th level caster his CR would be 16. If he is 15 HD his caster level woul be 13, loss spells and have a CR of 15.

Add in Orgo and this is probably a EL 16 encounter. No wonder we didn't finish the fight, and the whole party is almost dead although the fully healed before leaving room 11 and coming here.

Also the room description says there is a 10 foot walkway around the room but the map says 5 foot.


There have been a lot of threads asking what to do after the AP, what have you changed in the AP, side quests ran, etc. So far I haven't responded to those threads simply due to having to go into a lot of detail. This thread is to show how my AP has evolved and what I have planned.

First of Turaglas apeared in DRAGON 312 pg 66. Due to the info in this thread being hard to use w/o the issue, I will not explain glossary terms in the article (ex. what's a "Mouth of Turaglas?"). However I encourage all to read if it sparks, buy a back issue.

Let me start with how perfect Turaglas fits into the AP. I planned on adding Turaglas as soon as I read his article. I figured I'd just add little things and start an epic campaign where the AP leaves off. However he is now a vast center of my story arc. Occupitus, is The Ebon Maw's previous layer of the Abyss. With his imprissonment the plane grew smaller and became unimportant, a place for deserters, until the war w/ Celestia and Adimarcus' reign. The description of the plane fit's in perfect w/ Turaglas' portfolio and indicates the power he still has from w/in his void. He has been manipulating Adimarcus as much as Adimarcus has been manipulating the Cagewrights. Also Turaglas created many demon species. The FF says the Demodand's were exciled from another plane (say the Abyss) due to some unknown reason (say servant's of Turaglas). Also the Shator's and Kelubar's blame th Farastu for this. Maybe because it's the only one not slothfull by appearance.

I have placed a rather large Feast in Caldron. Many members of the Cagewrights are members of the Feast, including most of the CW's leaders. Turaglas has manipulated Adimarchus into the idea of his freement not knowing that it will set about events allowing the Demodands to kill in Turaglas' name helping to free the Ebon Maw. The Feast members in the CW help incourage the process along fully aware of what's really happening. Due to the recent events the Feast becomes slightly more open than normal.

Whenever the party has been in need of a side quest to increase level I have somehow tied it in w/ the local Feast. Recently I let them compete against a group locating one of the Fangs of Turaglas. I let my party roll which of the 8 weapons it was and it turned out to be the shortspear. The party hasn't had a mental image yet but it will be very funny once they do. I am about to attack them w/ the Breath of the Void, lead by the Wrath of Turaglas. The party has argued over the spear already so what will happen once the get White Talon? On Occupitus I intentionally threw in encounters w/ Turagathshnee.

Clerics of Turaglas have attacked the party using spells like Cannibalize, Caustic Bile and Insatiable Hunger.

After the AP I plan to have the party have to find the Burning Toungue and fight the Keeper, eventually encounter the corrupted Vuren Krabath (and maybe a summoned Turaglas in Tragathshnee form), have the party attempt to recover and destroy various Fangs, and finally encounter the Ebon Maw himself, in trus form, surrounded by minions and followers.

I'll post more details later as time permits but I at least wanted to get the idea in the open.


The AP1 lists Archedemus as having two forms. Each form is given it's own stat block with it's own CR listing of a 23. Both forms must be killed. Each form tracks it's HP, abillities etc as a seperate creature.

So is it intented for Archedemus to be an overall CR 23 having the shift form ability or should he technically be counted as two seperate creatures, each of a CR 23 (and thus an EL25 encounter)?

I feel if he's only one CR23 his two forms should of been listed in one heading (like forsay a shapechanger) and then have his individual form abilities listed seperate. Being that both forms have thier own stat block/listing, own HP, abilities, etc and are in all ways treated as two completely seperate creatures except only one being allowed to exist at any one point in time that players should be awarded EXP for each form, especially if they would manage to defeate one form and not the other.

James please enlighten me to the intent. That way if Archedemus is suppose to be a single CR 23 I can make a DM call to make him two seperate CR 21s, EL 23.

By the way some people have been marking (SPOILERS) on the thread titles. That is pretty good other than this section is supposed to be for DM's only, according to the message board page. Players really shouldn't be on this page for any reason outside cheating or AP completion anyways(just my opionin).


That's the name my group gave Skie as the party's name. Missed by One. After 3 weeks of being unable to think of a name they cleverly decided it fit since they has continueously failed saves, missed attack rolls, skill checks, etc by 1. The stated the saying still fits the PCs since they were a foot short of clearing the pit, or missed him by this much <hand singnal of an inch> and comments like that. Instead of telling Skie how heroic they are they tell her about how they constantly mess up, giving her constant amusement and laughter, but eventually pull through. Characters are always getting knocked out (1 potion short or should of healied one more time) and every player has had a PC die, more often from a stupid choice or from a bad die roll that from actual difficulty. It's kind of funny. The 'cleric' is a favored soul. When he aquired 3rd level spells he chose Animate Dead, solely for the porpose of transporting dead PCs back to town.

Anyways I was wondering what all group names anyone has and any story behind it.