First a little background. The group I’m in currently is nearing the end of an adventure path so I’ve been looking at possible classes to play. I was going to make a druid, which has always been one of my favorite classes, and try out focusing on shapeshifting but it looks like we will probably be doing Agents of Edgewatch next sooo… yeah I through that idea out.
Then after reading several other classes I looked at the inventor. I’ve never played a character like this before and thought the steampunk feel could be fun and would fit in well with the city. I started getting an idea I liked where my inventor would have a “wolf” construct and use her abilities to support it in battle.
Honestly I would have preferred to focus on the construct and support but after reading through it I realized the inventor is built a bit more like a front liner with good armor and weapon proficiencies. Not quite what I was looking for but that’s fine. So, as a test, I tried sketching out a 20th level construct companion and compared that to my druids’ wolf companion which brought up some questions.
As far as I can tell the wolf animal companion seems just as good as the construct. Both have different strengths and weaknesses but they seemed about equal. Which while not quite what I wanted that’s fine and I could work with it. Except looking at the inventor they seem strictly weaker than the druid.
Hit points and saves are about the same. But my druid maxed wisdom and was a full spell caster whereas the inventor appears MAD and has nothing that I see that will be anywhere close to the power or flexibility of full spell casting.
Now they don’t have to necessarily be as “strong” as a druid but I want to know they will be able to carry their own weight and be able to “shine” from time to time. Right now I’m not convinced, especially at high levels. So what experiences has everyone had? Am I missing some critical ability or abilities? I read everything in one go so I know I’m experiencing a bit of information overload but I wanted to ask rather than going back and rereading especially if I’m wasting my time.
Any insight would be appreciated, especially if it includes actual play experience.
Has anyone heard how a characters base attack bonuses work yet? I was thinking about it and how they are simplifying and streamlining rules where they can, such as merging several things under the feat umbrella, and it occurred to me that your base attack bonus represents nothing more than your skill with weapons.
With that in mind, will it work like other skills? Will everyone have the same bonus before modifying it with proficiencies, etc. (i.e. a base attack bonus equal to your level)? Would that be a bad thing if it does work like that?
I had a momentary, knee jerk reaction that I wouldn’t like it, but then I started warming up to the idea a little. I don’t believe that a character that does not invest in the appropriate feats, etc. will never be so good that overshadow one that did and allowing it could make for some interesting builds.
For example, a wizard that invested their skill feats in weapon proficiencies and took appropriate class feats could potentially make a good fighter/wizard or magus. What does everyone else think? Would it be too good if it did work like that, or would it just open up more possibilities for character builds?
All right, so as some of you may or may not know monks are one of my favorite classes. I even wrote a guide for playing them. Recently however I ran into a problem of sorts. I wanted to make a sensei for a support oriented build and found several points unclear. Now it’s easy enough for me to house rule in my own game and the games I play in are similar so I could simply state my belief on how it should go and ask for a ruling, but I’d like to know what the community thinks and if anyone knows if any of these questions has been answered in errata or by one of the paizo staff.
1) The advice ability states that it is identical to bardic performance. Does that mean you can take lingering performance with it?
2) Mystic wisdom states that it replaces the monk’s bonus feats at levels 6, 12, and 18. One problem, monks don’t get a bonus feat at level 12. So should it replace one gained at 10, 14, both, or neither?
3) At 12th level a sensei can use mystic wisdom to give an ally within 30 feet one of several monk abilities such as evasion or fast movement. Can he choose himself? And when using mystic wisdom to grant an ability to all allies in range does he count as an ally to himself?
4) Since mystic wisdom uses the monk’s advice ability does it benefit from lingering performance if the monk has it?
5) Can a sensei use mystic wisdom to dimension door party members with abundant step? If so what happens when he tries to dimension door the entire party? Do they all arrive in the same relative locations to each other or can he place them in different spots?
6) What happens if a sensei uses battlemind link on the party? Or can he? If he can, does he choose the target they link to or do they?
Alright, I have been playing D&D since the red basic D&D box set came out, and over the years have played in and ran several high level games. In 3.x I had to go through the epic level handbook and practically redo everything as it is possibly the most “broken” set of D&D rules I’ve ever seen.
Anyway, since I moved to pathfinder I have been doing lower level campaigns but one of them is getting close to 20th level and on top of that I also have an old on-going epic level campaign that I may be dusting off again soon depending how things go with friends of mine. This has prompted me to look over and consider the rules available for high level play in pathfinder.
With the increase to the strength of the core classes in pathfinder, prestige classes and multi-classing are far better option imho then continuing to advance in a class that has hit 20th level, you gain more abilities and new abilities rather then simply bumping existing one up occasionally. Some classes, mostly pure spell casters, feel this less then others but even then it’s still there and I really wanted to make high level play more interesting.
To that end I created the following rules. I’m including them here for people to look at, comment on, and if you’re so inclined, use. Understand that these rules are still new, I’m only just beginning to play test them, and high level play always requires some judgment calls to be made by the GM, these rules are no exception. That said I think I had a few good ideas on how to solve the issue of no new abilities and dead levels :)
All right, I’ve been working on this for some time now and I think it’s ready for a critique but first a little background.
Some time back I decided I wanted to try my hand at making a guide and since I enjoy playing monks it seemed like the logical choice. While I have quite a bit of experience playing monks please keep in mind two things. First, the game I normally run has house rules so I my have forgotten something or be taking something for granted so if you see something that isn’t RAW please point it out to me. I think (or hope) I have made few, if any, mistakes of this kind but it’s hard for me to be 100% certain.
Second, while I’ve played a lot of monks I haven’t played them all so a few of my assumptions about a feat, ability or such may be off. If you think I’m wrong feel free to state your case and I’ll look it over and possibly change things if I feel the points made are sound. Of course being my guide I’ll ultimately go with what I believe to be the case but I’d like to think I’m open minded and will give other opinions fair consideration :)
Umm… one last thing, as anyone clicking the link will soon learn the guide kind of got away from me. I meant to do an up to date guide through Ultimate Magic and it was already getting a little longer then intended when Ultimate Combat came out and with all the nice feats and archetypes for monks I naturally had to read, evaluate, try out, and include that material as well. So ya, it grew well beyond what I had originally intended.
In any case I’ll be back to read comments etc and eventually update my guide but between work, school, and life it may take me a while to be able to update everything depending on just what needs done.
Anyway here’s the link, hopefully this works, as it’s the first time I’ve used google docs.
So I read through the Qinggong monk in UM and ran into a question I’m having trouble finding the answer to. Powers that replicate feats last 1 round, for those that replicate spells refer to the spells duration, but what about a ki power that replicates a monk ability?
For abilities like diamond soul or perfect self I assume they work like the normal ability simply replacing the appropriate ability you are taking them in place of, which is fine but then I see timeless body (monk ability, 1 ki point), and tongue of the sun and moon (monk ability, 1 ki point).
PRD wrote:
Timeless Body (Ex): At 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when his time is up.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.
Ok, what’s going on, 1 ki point for what? For tongue of the sun and moon your going to need more then 1 round since that’s a whole 6 seconds of conversation, and any duration seems strange for timeless body as you aren’t going to be able to keep penalties from natural aging at bay for very long O.o
I really don’t understand why either would have a ki cost at all but giving that they do what am I missing?
In a recent thread someone asked what gestalt was. Reading the thread and listening to people talk about a gestalt characters relative strength got me thinking about a possible house. To keep this separate from normal multiclassing I’ll hereafter refer to this as a compound class. The rule would read roughly as follows:
Compound class characters
A compound class character is one that levels in two separate classes at the same time. This is not the same as multiclassing where a character simply takes a level in a different class. Each time a character gains a level they gain the benefits of leveling in two separate classes. Any time both classes give the same benefit only the best is taken.
Thus a if a character leveled and chose to take a level of ranger and a level of rogue they would gain 1d10 hit points since the rangers hit die are better and 8 skill points (plus their intelligence modifier if any) from their rogue level since rogues gain more skill points when they level. Abilities that are not shared between the two classes are gained normally.
While compound classes provide characters with more options a thus greater flexibility it also gives them a +2 level adjustment. As a result, a single classed character with the same number of experience points will be higher level gaining all the appropriate benefits.
Compounding a class after character creation
In order for a character to compound their class after already being created they first declare their intent. The next time their character would level they instead gain half their level rounded down in another class. Then when they would level a second time they gain the remaining levels in the other class. After this they level normally as dictated above.
Partially compounding classes
This works identically to compound classes except that the character only levels in two classes simultaneously on every even level. On the odd level they only level in one class. In return they only have a +1 level adjustment.
Thus a character that was partially compounded and had enough experience to be 11th level could have all the abilities of a 10th level rogue and a 5th level sorcerer.
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The main reason for this is that I dislike the limited multiclassing options in pathfinder. While it’s good for some things, I like the idea of being able to build a character such as a cleric/sorcerer that is actually proficient at casting both arcane and divine spells but still be reasonably balanced. I sometimes come up with character concepts that simply don’t work well within the rules and I think this could be a solution.
That said my questions are as follows:
What are your initial impressions?
Does this seem balanced appropriately?
Do you see any reason this wouldn’t work?
If you see anything wrong how would you fix it?
I’ve been reading various threads about the gunslinger, most of which seem to have quite a few issues with it. While I don’t think it is bad enough to have to be completely redone like some seem to believe, there are several problems I think need addressed.
The first one is that it’s considered an alternate class of fighter. A few people in different threads have expressed an opinion that the gunslinger should be an alternate class of the alchemist, ranger, or even monk. While there is some merit to these arguments, I believe the gunslinger is sufficiently different from the other classes that it should be made into its own class.
With this in mind I decided to retouch the gunslinger as a base class and make some minor adjustments to fix the problems I’ve seen with it. For the most part, I tried to keep from making too many changes from the original document. So most of it is simply cut and paste from the test play document. This is partially because I believe it’s to early to know for sure how many changes are needed since, as far as I’m aware, there still isn’t a lot of play test data on them.
Still, I love to tinker so I thought I’d take a crack at it anyway. Because of the size of the post I’ve used spoiler tags to hide/condense the information. The last tag is the most important as it summarizes the changes I made and why I made them.
(Ideas and opinions are welcome)
Gunslinger (Basics):
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Base Attack Bonus (BAB): High (1-20)
Good Saves: Fortitude, Reflex
Bad Saves: Will
Class Skills
The gunslinger’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (Local), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int Modifier.
The following are class features of the gunslinger.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Gunslingers are proficient with all simple weapons and firearms. They are proficient with all light and medium armor but not with shields.
Firearm: At 1st level, a gunslinger gains either one musket (along with 50 doses of black powder and 50 bullets) or two pistols for free.
Grit (Ex): A gunslinger makes her mark upon the world with daring deeds. Some gunslingers claim they belong to a mystical way of the gun, but it’s more likely that the volatile and dangerous nature of firearms simply prune the unlucky and careless from their ranks. Whatever the case, all gunslingers have grit. In game terms, grit is a fluctuating measure of the gunslinger’s ability to perform amazing actions in combat, both offensive and defensive.
At the start of each day, a gunslinger gains 2 + her Constitution modifier (minimum 1) in grit points. Grit goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than the gunslinger’s Constitution modifier + 2 (minimum 1), though some feats and magic items may affect this maximum. A gunslinger spends grit to accomplish deeds (see below) and regains grit in the following ways.
Critical Hit with a Firearm: Each time a gunslinger confirms a critical hit with a firearm attack, she regains 1 grit point. Such a critical hit must be confirmed in the heat of combat. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature, or a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the gunslinger’s character level does not regain grit.
Killing Blow with a Firearm: The first time a gunslinger reduces a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with a firearm attack during the course of an encounter, she regains 1 grit point. Such a killing blow must occur in the heat of combat. Destroying a target or other unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the gunslinger’s character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not regain grit.
Sharp Shooter: A gunslinger may use a full round action to carefully aim getting a single attack with a damage bonus. This extra damage is 1d6 at 2nd level and increases by 1d6 for every four gunslinger levels gained thereafter. Additional damage from this ability is considered precision damage and creatures immune to critical hits are also immune to this damage.
This damage bonus is also gained against targets that are flat footed or that the gunslinger is flanking. However in both of these cases she must be within 30 feet of her target unless she is using a full round action to attack as mentioned above.
Bonus Feats: At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, a gunslinger gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained by normal advancement. These bonus feats must be combat or grit feats.
Gun Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a gunslinger can select one specific type of firearm (such as pistol or musket). She gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls with that type of firearm. Furthermore, when she misfires with that type of firearm, the misfire value of that firearm increases by 2 instead of 4. Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a gunslinger picks up another type of firearm, gaining these bonuses with those types as well.
True Grit (Ex): At 20th level a gunslinger picks two deeds or grit feats that she has access to and that she must spend grit to perform. She can perform these for 1 less grit point (minimum 0). If the number of grit points to perform the deed or feat is reduced to 0, the gunslinger can perform this it as long as she has at least 1 grit point.
(Possible alternate capstone)
Legendary Gunman: At 20th level a gunslinger has the critical threat range of all of their firearms increased by 1 (so a pistol with a threat range of 20 would have a threat range of 19-20, etc), grit gained from a killing blow or a critical hit is doubled, and the extra damage from sharp shooter applied to targets that are being flanked or that are flat footed can be applied regardless of the gunslingers distance from the target.
Deeds:
Deeds: Gunslingers spend grit points to accomplish deeds. Most deeds grant the gunslinger some momentary bonus or effect, but there are some that provide longer lasting effects. Some deeds stay in effect as long as a gunslinger has at least 1 grit point. The following is the list of base gunslinger deeds. A gunslinger can only perform deeds of her level or lower. Unless otherwise noted, a deed can be performed multiple successive times, as long as any appropriate grit is spent to perform the deed. Gunslingers of the appropriate level gain all of the deeds of that level and below. Only levels of gunslinger count when determining what deeds are available to them.
Deadeye (Ex): At 1st level, a gunslinger can target touch AC beyond her firearm’s first range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point per range increment beyond the first. The gunslinger still takes the –2 penalty on attack rolls for each range increment beyond the first when she performs this deed.
Pistol-whip (Ex): At 1st level, a gunfighter can make a surprise melee attack with the butt or handle of her firearm as a standard action. When she does, she is considered to be proficient with the firearm as a melee weapon (gaining a +2 bonus on the attack roll) and gains a bonus on the attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus of the firearm. The damage dealt by the pistol-whip is of the bludgeoning type, and is determined by the size of the firearm. One-handed firearms deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if wielded by size Small creatures) and two-handed firearms deal 1d10 points of damage (1d8 if wielded by size Small creatures). Regardless of the gunslinger’s size, the critical multiplier of this attack is 20/×2. If the attack hits, the gunslinger can make a CMB check to knock the target prone as a free action. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point.
Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, a gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform.
Gunslinger Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as a gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. If she also has the Quick Draw feat, her hands are free and unrestrained, and the firearm is not hidden, she can draw a single firearm as part of the initiative check.
Take Cover (Ex): At 3rd level, when a creature makes a ranged attack against the gunslinger and the gunslinger is not flat footed, she can take a 5-foot step as an immediate action to get behind cover if any existed within 5 feet of her gaining a +4 bonus cover bonus to AC (provided the cover taken is sufficient for this bonus). During the gunslingers next turn she cannot take a 5-foot step (or rather she already has).
If insufficient cover exists or she doesn’t want to use her next turns 5-foot step she may instead drop prone as an immediate action, gaining the +4 bonus to AC. In either case, performing this deed costs 1 grit point and the bonus gained is applied retroactively to the triggering attack.
Covering Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as an immediate reaction, when a gunslinger misses with a firearm attack, she can spend 1 grit point to pin down the target of that missed attack. The pinned-down target is treated as if it were entangled for 1 round. A gunslinger cannot choose to purposely miss a target to gain this effect.
Rapid Reload (Ex): At 7th level, a gunslinger may reload firearms as if they had the rapid reload feat provided they have at least 1 grit.
Utility Shot (Ex): 7th level, a gunslinger can use any of the following utility shots. When using a utility shot a gunslinger may spend up to 1 point of grit to get a +4 bonus to the attack roll or skill check used to determine success.
• Blast Lock: A gunslinger makes an attack roll against a lock within the first range increment of her firearm. A diminutive lock usually has AC 7, and larger locks have higher ACs. The lock gains a bonus to its AC against this attack based on its quality. A simple lock has +10 bonus to AC, an average lock has a +15 bonus to AC, a good lock has a +20 bonus to AC, and a superior lock has a +30 bonus to AC. Arcane lock grants a +10 bonus on the AC of a lock against this attack. On a hit, the lock is destroyed, and the object can be opened as if it were unlocked. On a miss, the lock is destroyed, but the object is jammed, and still considered locked. It can still be unlocked by performing this deed, the Disable Device skill, or with the break DC, though the DC for the Disable Device skill increases by 10. A key, combination, or similar mechanical method of unlocking the lock no longer works, though knock can still be employed to bypass the lock, and the creator of an arcane lock can still bypass the wards of that spell.
• Scoot Unattended Object: The gunslinger makes an attack roll against a Tiny or smaller unattended object within the first range increment of her firearm. A Tiny unattended object has AC 5, a Diminutive unattended object has AC 7, and a Fine sized unattended object has AC 11. On a hit, you do not damage the object with the shot, but can move it up to 15 feet farther away from shot’s origin. On a miss, the gunslinger damages the object normally.
• Stop Bleeding: The gunslinger discharges their firearm and then presses the hot barrel to a wound on an adjacent creature in an attempt to staunch a bleeding wound as a swift action. This act requires a successful heal skill check DC 15 and if successful ends a single bleed condition affecting the creature. The gunslinger does not have to make an attack roll when it performing the deed in this way; she can shoot the firearm in the air, but that shot does use up ammunition normally.
Bleeding Wound (Ex): At 11th level, when a gunslinger hits a living creature with a firearm attack, she can spend 1 grit point as a free action to have that attack deal extra bleed damage. The amount of bleed damage is equal to the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier. Alternatively, the gunslinger can spend 2 grit points to deal 1 point of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution bleed damage (gunslinger’s choice) instead. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to either type of bleed damage.
Targeting (Ex): At 11th level, as a swift action, a gunslinger can take aim for greater accuracy and effect. On the next firearm attack she makes before the end of her turn, she can choose part of the body to target, and gain the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that body location cannot be targeted. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform no matter the part of the creature you target. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack are immune to these effects.
• Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused for 1 round. This is a mind affecting effect.
• Torso: Targeting the torso doubles the critical range of the affected attack.
• Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit and drops one carried item of your choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.
• Legs or Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. A flying creature falls. A creature that is immune to trip attacks is immune to this effect.
Startling Shot (Ex): At 15th level, whenever a gunslinger has at least 1 grit point and misses a creature with a firearm attack, the target of the missed attack becomes flat-footed until the start of its next turn. A gunslinger cannot purposely choose to miss a target in order to gain this effect.
Expert Loading (Ex): At 15th level, whenever a gunslinger rolls a misfire with a gun that has the broken condition, she can spend 1 grit point to keep the gun from exploding, though it retains the broken condition.
Stunning Shot (Ex): 19th level, when a gunslinger scores a critical hit, she can spend 1 grit point to stun the creature for 1 round. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this effect. Performing this deed prevents the gunslinger from regaining grit from confirming the critical hit.
Deadly Shot (Ex): At 19th level, when a gunslinger confirms a critical hit against a living creature, she can spend 1 grit point to choose to deal normal damage, and the target must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the gunslinger’s level + the gunslinger’s Dexterity modifier. On a failed saving throw, the target dies. Performing this deed does not allow her to regain grit from confirming the critical hit.
Changes Made & Reasoning:
Made both Fortitude and Reflex good saves – this seemed to fit the concept and was needed since I removed brave and tough.
Increased skill points to 4 + INT modifier – Simply seemed more appropriate for the class.
Made grit Constitution based rather then Wisdom based and started gunslingers with 2 + their Constitution modifier in grit – most resource based abilities either scale with level, such as spells or ki, or have a limited times per day that is increased by an attribute modifier, such as channel energy, while possible to replenish grit was to low.
As for why I chose to use constitution, it seemed like either that or charisma would work better and make more sense then wisdom and since constitution is desirable for a gunslinger anyway it seemed like the better way to go to avoid MAD.
Allowed killing blow to be used once per encounter to gain grit rather then once per day – another change to let grit get some use and be fun to play with.
All deeds are gained at each level – I believe this is how they are intended to work but I noticed that a few people play testing the gunslinger seemed to be only choosing a single ability at levels that said deeds.
Leap for cover changed to take cover and moved to 3rd level deeds – adjusted it to make it slightly more useful and swapped it with pistol whip that seemed like a more appropriate 1st level deed.
Pistol whip moved to 1st level deeds – Is not a particularly useful ability and will probably rarely see use outside of low level play so moved it to 1st level where it may be fun to use.
Added Rapid reload to 7th level deeds – Added to help reduce the feat tax the class seems to have.
Moved targeting to 11th level deeds – Basically swapped it with utility shot that is slightly less powerful though neither seems overly strong.
Moved utility shot to 7th level deeds and altered it – removed the grit requirement for normal use but allow a point to be spent to increase the odds of successfully using it. Removed the increase to the DC for breaking down a door or blasting a lock again since they didn’t seem to make much sense to me and added a heal check to stop bleeding.
Allowed Stunning shot to keep the damage from being a critical – At 19th level this ability doesn’t seem powerful enough to warrant reducing damage to normal.
Replaced brave and tough with sharp shooter – I felt the added damage from sharp shooter was needed to toughen up the class and bring their damage output up to where it should be.
Altered true grit so it could be used with grit feats – Just seemed like it should be able to be used on them.
Added a possible alternate capstone, legendary gunman – Just a possible alternate that may be considered since I know not everyone likes true grit as a capstone. Personally, while I like true grit, as a capstone I think it’s a little underpowered.
