Looking for feedback on a 1e Gloomblade build
My group will be starting Tyrant’s Grasp in the near future, and I was hoping to get some feedback on my build. I’ll be the only melee in a 4-person party, and this is my first time playing a full martial (I’ve played my share of Magus, Summoner, and Oracle). Looking for help either optimizing the dips I’m using to cover feats, or any ideas that might result in fun interesting playstyles that take advantage of the Gloomblade’s Shadow Weapon.
No spoilers for TG please, but feel free to reference the Tyrant’s Grasp Player’s Guide content.
Primary Success Criteria
L1 Fighter – Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack
What are your thoughts? I would love to hear any and all feedback around the build/concept.
Thanks for the responses guys, so much to cover here!
Actually, the starknife has the worst crit range. Just 20.
You are correct. I don't know what I was thinking of.
I like 3 Flying Blade ...
I'll take a look and mess around with some build. I only have 7 levels to play with before going into Sentinel, and feat selection is really tight. Losing out on the bonus feats and then being forced to take Martial Focus might be too much for this character.
For the price of a +1 chain shirt (and MW buckler), you can buy ~100 hours of mage armor via 2 wands...
Mage armor might be good for early levels (especially if I can get the Wizard to burn a slot on it) before I have access to things like Deathless or Fortification.
You gain back evasion that you lost because you were wearing armor or using a shield as a monk.
Evasion is still valid with light armor. Only the AC bonus, fast movement, and Flurry of Blows abilities are disabled while wearing any kind of armor.
You have Deific Obedience listed but I didn't see what you had for Deity...
I had planned for Desna.
You will lose Starry Grace if you switch to dagger...
I need to look at the progression for that train of thought. I know I can make up for the damage with the Agile enchant
I'd also recommend a whetstone...
Added the whetstone, and a couple of acid flasks (hadn't finished up purchasing yet). I'll keep the others on my list. Lot's to think about here. Thanks again!
I was just making a thrower myself using Guided Hand, and was strongly tempted to use starknives/Desna. Ended up going with daggers/Pharasma, but perhaps that could help you? Cleric/U-Rogue instead of Swash/Monk/Ranger?
I will admit that this is not something I had thought about. It is a little light in the BAB department, but I'll mess around with it and take a look at some builds.
I would Go Ranger 2 instead of Swash with the combat style Faithful (Desna) Which would let you get Weapon Finesse
Not sure what I would gain from that. I would gain +1 Fort -1 Ref and lose access to Parry, Subtle Throw, and Derring-Do.
i dont remember where I saw it but i think there is a feat where if you crit with a star knife you can give that crit chance to someone else might be an interesting idea
I think you are thinking of a feat called Butterfly Sting*? It allows you to pass on a critical threat but has Combat Expertise as a prerequisite. The starknife has a decent crit range, but I think Butterfly Sting fits better in a party with a greataxe wielding barbarian.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Yea, sentiment revolves feat economy in relation to martial characters all while having access to strong social skills and an impressive class skill list.
Using a similar Starknife build as an example, Lethal Grace replaces Weapon Finesse and Starry Grace combined. Signature Weapon replaces Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. Returning Weapon isn't quite Ricochet Shot, but it skips the Weapon Training requirement and it can be abused at 14 with crystal chakrams. You get all of that in addition to access to social talents.
I'm not saying it is broken, but at our tables they have tended to play too many roles. My friends are big fans of bards, so we tend to have one person step up as the social character. For us, the Vigilante just does too much and tends to be the center of attention.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Haha, sadly no. My group isn't too fond of the Vigilante, as we feel it is a bit too strong.
I'm looking for feedback on the character I have built for Hell's Rebels. This character will be starting at level 4, and along with the build I'd be happy to hear any ideas you have for magic items that I should be pursuing.
Our party has a dedicated Life Oracle healer, buff Bard, Swashbuckler, Warpriest, and a Wizard. I volunteered to be the party trap finder, while contributing to damage from range. I decided to go with a Starknife build because I thought it would be a lot of fun, and had a lot of utility in terms of switch-hitting.
Getting everything I wanted for my Starknife build was tough. I knew the build was feat intensive, so I tried to get the essentials before going into the Sentinel prestige class.
Swashbuckler(Flying Blade) 1, Ex-Monk(Far Strike Monk) 2, Ranger(Freebooter,Trapper) 1, Fighter(Weapon Master 3), Sentinel 10
Flying Blade gets me access to Weapon Finesse and a few utility tricks. Monk gets me three essential feats, decent saves, and evasion. Trapper gets access to trapfinding, while Freebooter provides a small bump that I can use with my move actions. Weapon Master gets weapon training (needed for ricochet toss) and two more bonus feats. Sentinel rounds out the build with some sacred bonuses that help offset the multi-classing as well a lot of nice utility from Desna.
Level 1(Swashbuckler): Weapon Finesse*, Weapon Focus, Starry Grace
Level 2(Monk): Point-blank Shot*, Quick Draw*
Level 3(Monk): Precise Shot*, Startoss Style (Starknife)*
Level 4(Ranger): ---
Level 5(Fighter): Deific Obedience, Startoss Comet*
Level 6(Fighter): Startoss Shower
Level 7(Fighter): Ricochet Toss
Level 8(Sentinel): ---
Level 9(Sentinel): Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit), Weapon Specialization*
Level 10(Sentinel): ---
Level 11(Sentinel): Rapid Shot
Level 12(Sentinel): ---
Level 13(Sentinel): Deadly Aim
Level 14(Sentinel): Greater Weapon Focus*
Level 15(Sentinel): Greater Weapon Specialization
Level 16(Sentinel): ---
Level 17(Sentinel): Improved Critical
Build (Level 4):
Leandros "Lea" Rinzler
Male human (Varisian) monk (far strike) 2/ranger (freebooter, trapper) 1/swashbuckler (flying blade) 1
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +11
Aura freebooter's bane (1 ft.)
AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 34 (4 HD; 2d8+2d10+8)
Fort +7, Ref +12, Will +5
Defensive Abilities evasion
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee starknife, cold iron +9 (1d4+7/×3)
Ranged starknife, cold iron +9 (1d4+7/×3) or
...composite shortbow +8 (1d6+1/×3)
Special Attacks deeds (derring-do, opportune parry and riposte), panache (1)
Str 13, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Starry Grace, Startoss Style, Weapon Focus (starknife)
Traits historian of the rebellion, kobold's neighbor
Skills Acrobatics +8 (+4 to jump), Climb +2, Disable Device +13, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (nobility) +2, Knowledge (religion) +3, Linguistics -1, Perception +11 (+13 to discover traps), Perform (dance) +2, Sense Motive +4, Sleight of Hand +9, Stealth +8
Languages Common, Sphinx, Varisian
SQ swashbuckler finesse, track +1, trapfinding +1, wild empathy -1
Other Gear chain shirt, buckler, composite shortbow (+1 Str), starknife, starknife, starknife, starknife, cold iron, starknife, silver, cloak of elvenkind, figurine (silver raven), belt pouch, earplugs[APG], flint and steel, masterwork backpack[APG], masterwork thieves' tools, silk rope (100 ft.), 261 gp, 9 sp, 5 cp
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Freebooter's Bane +1 (Ex) +1 to hit & damage vs. chosen target.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Starry Grace Use Dexterity on starknife damage rolls
Startoss Style +2 (Starknife) Gain bonus dmg to thrown weapons.
Swashbuckler Finesse At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having
Track +1 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Wild Empathy -1 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
The only thing I know I need to get my hands on is a pair of Gloves of Dueling. I really love playing a Magus, and I think Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit) will scratch that itch for me. Other than that, Adamantine Starknife, Belt of Incredible DEX, Cloak of Resist, and the knight-Inheritor's ring are all on my list.
If you have gotten this far, thanks for reading. Any comments and/or feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Sammy T wrote:
Digging this one up out of the grave. Does anyone know if this interpretation is correct?
It occurred to me that someone here might know more than I do about the update cadence. I'm looking forward to playing a new GM credit character, but I'm getting a backlog of concepts that are dependent on new material.
Have any of you heard anything about when the next update to the Additional Resources will be? The last update was on April 4th. It makes sense that they would hold off changes until after PaizoCon, but now that we are past the major convention I'm itching to get at those new books.
I know it is a long shot, but maybe someone here has some details or perhaps heard something at PaizoCon?
I've been told to expect table variation due to the wording of "If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make a second attack" because the reference to a second attack implies the first attack has been resolved. Can you think of any similar abilities I might be able to point to for precedent so that I can feel confident building this character for PFS?
I've been talking over a Starknife build with some friends and the following question was raised:
"If Startoss Comet triggers after a successful hit but Ricohet Toss states that the weapon returns immediately after an attack is resolved, is it possible to use the two together?"
Startoss Comet wrote:
As a standard action, you can make a single ranged thrown weapon attack at your full attack bonus with the chosen weapon. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make a second attack (at your full attack bonus) against a target within one range increment of the first. You determine cover for this attack from the first target's space instead of your space.
Ricochet Toss wrote:
When you make a ranged attack with an appropriate thrown weapon, the weapon returns to your hand immediately after the attack is resolved.
The alchemist discovery "Tumor Familiar" states the following:
Tumor Familiar (Ex): The alchemist creates a Diminutive or Tiny tumor on his body, usually on his back or stomach. As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature. The tumor can reattach itself to the alchemist as a standard action. The tumor has all the abilities of the animal it resembles (for example, a batlike tumor can fly) and familiar abilities based on the alchemist's caster level (though some familiar abilities may be useless to an alchemist). The tumor acts as the alchemist's familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on). When attached to the alchemist, the tumor has fast healing 5. An alchemist's extracts and mutagens are considered spells for the purposes of familiar abilities like share spells and deliver touch spells. If a tumor familiar is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized procedure that costs 200 gp per alchemist level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete.
My interpretation is that the standard action to detach the tumor makes it a target, is this correct?
Wow, I really did not expect this kind of response but I am very grateful that I was able to kick off so much constructive discussion around the archetype. Since John has chimed in (thanks John!) about revisiting this thread on Monday, I would be very pleased to see this discussion continue through to weekend.
Moving on. Since I can't edit my original post, I want to take a minute to admit a few things I was either wrong about or had not considered:
I'll be honest, you all raised solid points, and it is very difficult for me to set aside the way I really want to play a ranged Magus and instead look at the boundaries of what the Eldritch Archer is capable of. When I started this thread last night it seemed very obvious to me that while the Eldritch Archer is a strong archetype, it was by far so overpowered as to be banned in PFS. Now, when I look through all of your comments I can humbly say I am on the fence.
P.S. Thanks Sebastian for keeping the dream alive and phrasing things much better than I can!
Disclaimer: Based on this post by John Compton, I decided to attempt an argument for why the Eldritch Archer should be added to the Additional Resources in Pathfinder Society. As someone who plays more than one Magus in PFS as well as a ranged Eldritch Knight, this post should be contextualized as having a significant bias. In fact, my intent is to play an Eldritch Archer in PFS were it to be allowed, so please understand that by reading my feedback and analyzing my perspective I am not entirely sure I meet the requirements of making a reason argument “in good faith.” That being said, I welcome any and all constructive feedback and discussion surround the Eldritch Archer and PFS.
What is the Eldritch Archer Archetype?
How does the Eldritch Archer differ from a normal Magus in typical play?
How does the Eldritch Archer compare to other common PFS archers?
What are some reasons for why the Eldritch Archer should not be allowed in PFS?
Why should the Eldritch Archer be allowed in PFS?
If you have made it this far, then I thank you for taking the time to read this post. Please feel free to post your thoughts and/or any feedback that you have for me.
EDIT: Added a section for Archetype stacking, split up some of the reasons it should be allowed, and added a summary.
Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Thanks for the update Tonya, I really appreciate that I can check the site and see an update from you guys that this is something you are actively working on.
Here is to getting the Eldritch Archer PFS legal! ::fingers crossed::
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Thank you for this! As one of the many Magi who have been dying to play a ranged Magus, I greatly appreciate this archetype.
I will concede to the fact that it is entirely possible that the Myrmidarch could make for an "excellent switch hitter," but I've tried so many builds to make it work than I have given up hope.
If it had the ability for Ranged Spell Combat(the Card Castor already has something similar) then I feel confident that I could make a viable ranged Magus, but as it stands now the switch-hitter build is so MAD and feat dependent that I am never able to build a Myrmidarch that can hold it's own in melee while managing to hit reliably with Ranged Spell Strike.
I've had a couple of ideas on this, but I'm not sure that all of them will work. Let me know what you think:
1. Monk Vows! "A monk can take a vow at any level, but it does not add to his ki pool until he gains a ki pool as a class feature..." and since Ki Arcana specifies that, "an esoteric’s arcane pool
2. If you are taking a dip for monk anyways, flurry of blows might not stack with Spell Combat but it can be used to burn through charges of spells like Frostbite. If you go (UC)Monk 3/Magus+ then you can spend some of those arcane pool points for another extra attack during a flurry.
3. I looked at "Ki Leech" as a candidate for Spell Blending, but as Ki Arcana only states that it is considered a ki pool for the purposes of meeting feat and ability requirements, I'm not sure it would work. If it did, it could help make a viable Pool Strike build.
So, if you're forced to follow RAW, does that mean you follow the Hexcrafter rules as written, and effectively make the class useless?
Hang on, the "Hex Magus" ability states that "He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level."
Source: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/m agus.html#hexcrafter-(archetype)
Where as Arcane Deed only states "When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level."
I would say that this is not a valid comparison, as "treating your level equal to" is not the same as "as long as someone of the same level could take it".
If everyone could agree on what common sense was then I would agree with you, however many of us are forced to follow RAW.
There is a reason that http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rdsm?Does-Precise-Strike-work-with-Arcane-Deed has 28 FAQ requests.
Can a magus even use precise strike? Arcane Deed doesn't say that your swashbuckler level is equal to your Magus level for the purpose of the deed.
Is it quadrupedal or bipedal ? (How many legs does it have ?) You might need two pair !
It is a Quadruped(the mount evolution is restricted to quads and serps)
Does it have things on those legs that need to be exposed in order to make attacks ? (Hooves/Claws) If so, you many need to pay extra money for a different form (such as horseshoes instead of slippers )if you want to keep using them.
I have claws on one set of legs, but not the other(claws can only be placed on legs once).
My primary concern was that because they were paws, he would not have the "feet" required to wear slippers.
I have a mounted summoner and I am looking at ways to avoid difficult terrain for my eidolon.
I came across Feather Step Slippers from Ultimate Equipment, but a friend of mind asked if my eidolon had the appropriate "feet" to wear them.
I know summoners and their eidolon's share slots, but are their any other rules I need to be aware of that would prevent me from buying my eidolon mount a pair of slippers?
...It feels really fun at level one, but as I progress it feels more like I'm being taunted with all the neat stuff I can't quite do.
I'm working on a level 1 Occultist for an upcoming game, and I think your feedback is spot on.
Additionally, I would say that it feels strange for a character to become less effective as they spend their mental focus. All of the other class abilities like have their limited uses per day, but the character isn't penalized for spending them. As an Occultist, I am afraid to spend my mental focus, because my resonant powers are more reliable than single use focus powers.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
While I would love for my Magus to take it, there is no text stating that the Magus uses their Magus level in place of their Swashbuckler level for the purpose of Arcane Deed. RAW, I believe that taking Precise Strike as a Magus is a wasted arcana.
You make a good point about the Daring Champion Cavalier, why explicitly give it to the character if it is useless.
I think this is a pretty good case of RAI, but I'll probably play it safe in PFS unless there is an FAQ or errata.
Assuming I have a Magus with "Flamboyant Arcana", can I take "Arcane Deed" for "Precise Stike"?
A magus gains the derring-do and opportune parry and riposte deeds from the swashbuckler’s list of deeds. The magus can spend points from his arcane
pool as panache points to use these deeds and any other deeds he gains from the deed arcana, but he cannot use points from his arcane pool to use deeds from other classes or those gained by feats, nor can he regain points to his arcane pool as a swashbuckler would regain panache points. Effects that add to, reduce the cost of, or otherwise affect panache or grit don’t affect the arcane pool of a magus with this arcana.
When a magus takes this arcana, he can
pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time
gaining a new deed. The magus must have the flamboyant arcana to select this arcana.
At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or onehanded piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a
creature from the additional damage of a precise strike.This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike’s damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed’s cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
I suspect that a strict interpretation would be that because Precise Strike specifies "Swashbuckler level" that the answer is 'no'.
Basically as the subject says:
1. Do these SLAs qualify for Arcane Strike?
Envoy: Elves often have trouble relating to neighbors of other races, especially those with much shorter lifespans. As a result, some are trained in minor magics that are particularly useful when dealing with non-elves. Elves with this racial trait and an Intelligence score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf's level. This racial trait replaces elven magic.
Arcane Strike (Combat)
You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
I've never played a class with a familiar before, and now that I have one (rabbit) I'm kinda paranoid about him dying.
I want to keep the benefits of having him close, but I'm afraid he is going to die to a fireball or something.
How do you guys keep your familiars safe? What do you do when you enter combat?
Guide to Organized Play wrote:
You cannot receive more that 1 player Chronicle and 1 GM Chronicle for the same scenario, regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario.
I played chapter one of Rise of the Runelords a while ago but the group didn't pan out. When I finally finished GMing chapter 1 with me new group, the events page didn't give me credit.
Session Page wrote:
Is this correct? Or should I receive credit for playing once, and GMing once?