RedJack's page

Not a bad item suggestion really, I could get it enchanted to give a +2 competence bonus to profession: soup making

And next you can smith a knife for making delicious grilled cheese sammiches to go with it!

"Keltoi's Fantastical Heated Dagger of Toasting" (Heroic Teir)
Level 1 Wondrous Item
Power * (Encounter * Snacks, Fire): Standard Action. When weilded against a loaf of bread and cheese, the user's hands are skillfully aided in the crafting of a single "grilled cheese sammich." It is perfectly toasted and slightly buttery in flavor, with just the merest hint of pleasing basil. Providing this sammich to another can grant a +2 bonus to Diplomacy checks involving that creature, provided they are not gluten reactive, lactose intolerant, or allergic to basil.

As a (somewhat) long time member of the WotC boards, I would point out that the largest population slice I would call disruptive, trolling, flame-baiting jerks have a tendency to be people who show up on those boards for little reason other than to tell people how horrible WotC, 4e, and (strongly suggested by extension, or more frequently, outright said) anyone who plays the system.

There are, unfortunately, plenty of 4e fans who respond with the same misguided vitriol, which is a damned shame if you ask me.

There are things I love about both product lines, and plenty of flaws to go around too, in my (never humble) opinion, but there's a strong difference between disliking something and pointing out its flaws, and a desire to see a product fail or harm befall its creators and purchasers because you hate it.

While I don't really endorse this thread, I'd like to point out something to everyone here:

Swinging (real) swords, building old cars, making your own beer and table-top RPG gaming are all hobbies that share something in common: they have all been replaced by a more modern equivalent, and have a limited "normal" growth. All of these hobbies rely on being passed down by friends, family and local culture, because there is a quicker, easier, more accessible variant of all of them.

What's more shocking is that table top RPG gaming has hobbyists among actors, writers, comedians, porn stars, pop icons, and the rest. In D&D it has a brand recognition that is big enough to be considered a frickin' commercial superpower... But what happens when some new kid tries to take the plunge? What happens when they walk into a gaming store or hop in an internet community board?

"NO FU, THAT GAME IZ RONG AND UR RONG 4 LIKIN IT!"
"NO U"
"NO UR FACE!!! HA BURN"
"IB4TL LULZ"
"PEEPUL WHO PLAY UR GAME SHUD DIAF I HOP U GET TEH AIDS"

We've got a community with a (I pray) minority of incredibly vocal, narcissistic, elitist jackholes that have nothing to be particularly smug about, unless poor behavior and sociopathic tendencies suddenly become an olympic event.

...And we egg them on.

Good job. D&D won't die today, table-top won't be gone next year or even next decade, but with the loudest parts of the community insisting on shouting at eachother, wishing ill on people who disagree with them, and hoping for nothing but misery to the people who play differently than they do, it won't be around much longer than you folks will.

Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess.

The original designer's ideas matter as much as the current developers see them as still being relevant, no more and no less.

Compare/Contrast with:

4th edition is not "real" D&D.

I find nearly every post here to be ludicrous in some form or another. I applaud those of you who have not devolved into baiting and shouts of "ur havin' wrongbadfun if u like X version. LULZ@URMOM"

Howsabout a history lesson?

"Edition Wars" are nothing new. You people screaming at eachother that one version is [INSERT BAD THING HERE] are not bold pioneers of thought. You're not even saying anything that hasn't been said repeatedly before.

My first game back in 1985-86 was prefaced by being told that "we don't play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, so don't even ask" in a tone of voice that strongly implied that AD&D was a foul pox upon all humanity sent directly from the bowels of hell to sate the entertainment needs of "idiots who just wanted a P&P version of Zork" and to corrupt "real" D&D into a quagmire of lunacy. Hey, didja see that there? "My (also new) version of D&D is real and yours isn't" and "Your so-called-D&D is just a video game (without the skill to really roleplay)." In 1986. I'm willing to bet that's before a few of you could even say the word "dicebag."

Of course, I later found out we were playing "Basic" which was not the "first" or "real" version of D&D either. I figured maybe AD&D wasn't as bad as I'd been told, and I also got older copies of the original rules off of a BBS. (If you remember using one, +1 neckbeard to you.) TBH, I hated playing OD&D and even Chainmail. They were clunky and icky and I couldn't handle it--haven't tried again in more than 20 years, although I still have copies I look through on occasion. To the folks who want to play: Have fun. As far as I'm concerned, that's the two words that make "real" D&D, not some edition-centric statement of elitist primacy.

When 2nd edition AD&D was released in '89, guess what happened? If you guessed "peace and harmony in the gaming community as everyone came together in an entirely reasonable manner to congratulate everyone on having more options to have fun" then you are @#$%ing wrong in every way possible. You know, I actually had a player sit down at my table not 6 months ago for the first time in 20 years because "when 2nd edition was released, I just lost all faith in the hobby. It wasn't really D&D anymore and it was just being made for kids who wanted to play Dragon Warrior[1!!!]." Surprise, surprise, he had a blast with 4e.

Then there was 3e. Cue Diablo references and "it's not even real D&D" chorus line again.

Hell, I actually heard this for the transition from 3e to 3.5, along with "money grab," of course.

How's that go? "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."

I hear they say that a lot on that new show that calls itself Battlestar Galactica, but isn't really Battlestar Galactica, and is only for idiots who want to watch video games. ;)

If you think my claims are wrong, than simply don't respond. Don't ask for further examples and tell me when I provide them that they are also wrong and stupid. That does no one any good.

Uhm, no.

I don't recall anyone calling you wrong and stupid--although my reading comprehension isn't perfect, so I may have missed it. You've strongly insinuated those who disagreed with you and provided evidence to back up their conclusions were, however.

But ignoring something that is wrong is not a proper way to deal with it. It leads to the spread of misinformation which is bad for the hobby and community as a whole.

No one's asked you for "further" examples. To ask for further examples, you'd have to have provided at least one actual provably correct example in the first place. They've asked you to explain yourself further, to provide any sort of evidence for your statements, and basically anything other than "X is bad because I say it's bad." You don't get to pop in and be wrong and then say "if you don't agree with me, then shut up." That's not how a discussion works.

The one power that is stuck in my mind (either because felt more neat than other utility powers or because I really liked having it with my wizard) was the 10th level utility power Arcane Gate. I recall it creating a pair of connected portals 20 squares from one another and being a cool "low level" teleportation power that could move the entire party.

From my faint recollections of creating characters a ways back, I am pretty certain that powers like this are uncommon and escape by flight/teleportation is much less common in 4e than Pathfinder or 3.5, but I don't believe it is a safe statement to say that a 4th edition party will certainly have to deal with any obstacle that is before them.

This is actually a lot closer to my experiences, but still not entirely fairly phrased.

First, just as powers aren't only about combat use, powers aren't the only source of activity. ^_^ There are some nifty rituals for travel, and while rituals aren't great for quick escape, you can actually make a pretty suspenseful evening out of running from/staving off a threat until a ritual can be completed. I actually cheered when we managed to get out.

Additionally, flight is a complete game changer. Against most critters that don't fly it's not an escape mechanism, it's a "win button." Float about, chuck a spell from a safe distance, shoot some arrows, whatever suits your fancy.

Additionally it's not "less common" in 4e, it's just "generally available much later as measured by raw level rather than percentage of level progression." It's not uncommon around level 5, although much more limited in time frame. Flight for a round or two for tactical use is available for quite a lot, although flying for hours or days at a time generally isn't. More widespread flight pops up again around 15, and by 20 you can fly if you've got an inclination--but it's not going to be necessary in every campaign.

To say every 4e party must deal with everything is really only part of the picture as well. They might want to consider their moves more carefully, yes... They can't go wander into the lair of the Ancient Red Demon Wyrm of Abu'Nazzat at level 9 and know that if you guys screw up, then the wizard pretty much will be able to at least save himself, and probably everyone--so you use your head instead of blindly staggering into challenges and rely on your character building/spell selection strategy to save you. Beyond that, the lack of rock/papal/scissors mechanics (Pope wins!) means that unless the DM purposefully designs an encounter to kill the party--which is not the same as challenging the party, or that challenge cannot be lethal--then there's a lot less chance of things happening like "oh damn, we haven't got the exact spell needed to invalidate this encounter, RUN!" or "Oh, I don't seem to have an appropriate DR/DI overcoming weapon on me. I don't think we can actually hurt this thing."

Running does generally happen less, but more because it doesn't need to happen as often, as opposed to "no one can run, mwa ha ha ha!" :D