Some caveats:
- This would be my first PF2 character (I know, I don't exactly pick easy classes to get interested in)
- I don't actually have a game for them to join yet, so it's just thought experiments/character creation in a vacuum
So, I've been looking through character classes for PF2 a lot lately, and one character concept that really jumped out at me when I read the class descriptions as sounding fun to play was a Thaumaturge with a Summoner (free?) Archetype, the idea being that I'd take a phantom eidolon and the phantom would be thematically tied to the implement I'd choose (eg. the skull of an ancestor, or an heirloom weapon, or a possessed trinket, or, I don't know, a wand crafted from a femur bone). I just love the idea of going full into the occult side of (what seems to be) the Thaumaturge flavour.
But, because it's my first character, and there's still a lot I really don't understand about the action economy of the game, I have no idea if this character would be… in any way good at anything haha! Or what they'd be good at, I suppose. It's not that I would need to be 100% optimised, but some combinations will obviously be more synergistic than others, and I don't know if this is completely anti-synergistic or not.
So I've a few questions, and I was hoping for some help/advice.
1.
How does the summoner multiclass archetype… work?
I see it says you don't get Act Together. Does this mean that either the character or the eidolon could take actions in combat, but not both? And is that also true for reactions if so?
2.
Is there anything in particular that you can see this character being good at? Any niche that they'd be more suited to than others? The Thaumaturge as a whole seems like it can fill almost any role, but I don't know if the action economy situation would realistically lock this particular class combo out of some, or make it lean more towards others.
3.
Is there anything you can think of that I should be aware of and wary of if I was to play this character in a game? I'm still trying to wrap my head around both of these classes (I tried a PF1 Summoner once in a one-shot, but I imagine the 2e version is quite different, and I've never played a Thaumaturge before but I'm just loving the flavour of it).
4.
Ancestry? Stats to prioritise? Particular skill feats? I don't know. I know they're both charisma classes but I don't know if/how charisma affects an eidolon, and I've read in places that physical stats can be more important for thaumaturges than charisma, depending on build, etc.
I suppose I just don't want to take this character concept to a table and be disappointed, so having some realistic expectations and understanding of mechanics would be a big help.
The character concept started with simply wanting to give a Samsaran character a shapeshifting ability flavoured as a sort of extension of his connection to his past lives, and then expanded from there in directions I just found cool, but now I feel like this character doesn't really have a role he fits well beyond a rogue/scout-like spattering of everything (which, in fairness, druids make excellent jack of all trades characters), so I'm curious if, with just 2 feats available, anyone can help this character feel more defined.
Building him to level 12 because we never really play beyond that point, I know there's a campaign looming somewhere in the future but probably not for a while so until then this is essentially theory-crafting.
How he looks so far:
Samsaran Ranger 1 Druid 11, VMC Cavalier
Ranger 1: trapper (no reason not to)
Druid 11: either world walker or something else
Domain instead of animal companion, either monkey domain or vermin domain (if I can swing it).
VMC Cavalier: either order of the green or something else
Using the shapeshifting hunter feat to get scaling favoured enemy bonuses.
Taking mystic past lives to get ranger spells added to my spell list (definitely instant enemy and terrain bond, flavoured as unlocking ancient memories, others?)
Benefits of monkey domain: nice skill bonuses to roguish skills at higher levels, ranged legerdemain. Monkey.
Benefits of vermin domain: vomit swarm is my favourite anything! Tremorsense. +4 Initiative.
Stat array probably looking like
14 14 10 14 18 7, 20pt starting stats after racials, but not set in stone.
Benefits: str/dex enough that going big or going small are both valid choices. Plenty of skill points. Makes the most of mystic past lives.
Negatives: no con makes melee dangerous.
I probably don't have the strength to get much use out of Power Attack, I can use the polymorphic pouch and ring of eloquence to get around not having room for Natural Spell to some extent, I don't really have the feats available to make ranged combat a specialty. So what feats can you think of to help solidify this character? I always find myself gravitating towards feats like war blessing when I get the chance, but there are probably better choices that help round out this character or give him direction rather than fun ones that just pile on even more class features to play with. Is that possible with just 2 feats?
Aside: I tend to avoid specialising in summoning, the odd spell here and there is fine but I'm definitely not taking Augment Summoning.
Recently saw someone on the forums talk about this class/race combo, and it looked like an amazing way to finally play the shadow healer I've always wanted! ie. utilising the wayang oracle favoured class bonus to add wizard illusion spells to my spells known (at one higher spell level than normal).
After picking a bunch of spells I realised that all my offensive choices seem to target Will saves and be mind-affecting (generally considered a bad thing?), and after finding advice on the forums like "avoid redundancy" started to wonder was there a lot of redundancy, and if so, what replacements people might recommend. I'm not really used to this kind of character. It feels weird to make a PC who has no real way of dealing damage, for example.
Character Info:
Levels 8-12, dual cursed heavens haunted/legalistic wayang oracle, cha/int focused, I see this guy as someone who doesn't really like physical exertion all that much. More of a manipulator than a fighter.
Spell Redundancy:
I'm not sure, for example, if it's a good thing to have Vision of Hell and Loathsome Veil, when I also have Rainbow Pattern from the heavens mystery and eventually Shadow Conjuration (eg. Stinking Cloud). I know they all inflict different things and they're all of different spell levels but they still all fulfill the same general function. (AoE debuff/CC targeting will)
Another example, Bestow Curse and Debilitating Portent both fulfill the single target save or suck (targeting will) role, even though they're both differently amazing. Would you consider this redundancy as well?
I'm also curious to hear which anyone would choose between Twilight Haze and Deeper Darkness (they'd both be 3rd level spells). I feel like a Shadow Man should have at least one of them.
So I suppose I'm wondering what exactly you'd consider to be spell redundancy and, with the cleric spell list, what low-ish level spells (1st-5th) you'd pick that target anything other than will saves.
I'm wondering can a paladin get away without investing anything in offence and still be a good benefit to the party without feeling like dead weight?
The character concept I've been thinking of involves me taking the Divine Defender, Hospitaler (possibly Warrior of the Holy Light) archetypes.
Variant Channeling Luck to boost my allies' attacks and provide minor healing (flavoured as a guiding light type ability). Then going the Bodyguard route for further boosts to my ally's defences. (Divine bond with my armour and the benevolent armour ability make this an attractive concept)
The problem is that paladins get so few feats that between combat reflexes, bodyguard, selective and maybe quick channel, and the half-drow drow nobility feat line I was thinking of going into (I like the idea of having both Light and Dark powers as a paladin) that I'm incredibly feat starved and can't even seem to afford power attack.
Do people think this will be a problem at higher levels? Any suggestions on how to improve the character other than just "ditch the drow nobility part"? Traits? Stats-wise would you favour strength or charisma? Any items you can think of I should look out for?
Thanks for any help. I don't have much experience with high level play.
What spells do you think would help with penetrating the magical defences of a wizards tower, stealing the items within, and getting away undetected?
And what defences do you think would be put in place?
Here's the situation:
I'm making an inquisitor(heretic)/arcane savant for an upcoming campaign that won't be terribly focused on combat.
(not at all worried about the hit to BAB for example)
This class combo works quite nicely with the backstory I've landed on.
A religious figure who was in the hire of a noble family to steal information and magical items from their rivals.
He would travel around as a wandering clergyman, engage in theological debate with the local priests, and occasionally be
called upon to ferret out some useful bit of information or steal some valuable item from the local nobility under this guise.
The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out where his mundane powers of skulduggery would need a bit of magical help
and what spells would best bridge those gaps. The noble houses are all powerful spellcasters so I can't quite grasp what kinds of
defences it'd make sense for them to have in place that he'd need to get around, and what spells (or scrolls/items) he could take that would help with this goal. The most notable deficit to his mundane skills is the lack of a rogue's trapfinding capabilities.
This is mostly a thought exercise of what I should build into this character to help explain his backstory, it's not really important to me
how much use he'll actually get out of these skills in the coming campaign. It's enough for me to know that he won't be useless.
The inquisitor list already gives great spells for subterfuge, tracking and dealing with magic. (disguise self, invisibility, follow aura, non-detection, arcane sight)
Arcane Savant gives identify, analyze dweomer, dispel and greater dispel.
For Esoteric Magic, are there any gems of spells from other lists you can think of that could cover some ground that the inquisitor spell list doesn't?
Glibness and Dimension Door are my only real ideas here.
I'm also at a complete loss as to feat selection. I'll probably be going human with the skill focuses, just because I can't think of anything else.
Stats, I'll probably focus on wisdom and get the inquisition that lets me use wisdom for the social skills, again just because I can't think of anything better.
As to what his religious tenets could be? I'm open to ideas if anyone has any. I'm thinking valuing knowledge in the Oghma kind of way.
So I'm toying with a character concept at the moment and looking for some help from people who know high-level magic a bit better than I do.
At mid levels, what spells would benefit most from being able to be cast at CL 20?
So far I've found Battering Blast and Chain Lightning as damage options, but does a high caster level have much benefit outside of extra d6's?
Similarly, if you could pick a single spell of up to 8th level to be able to cast at mid levels, which one would you pick? Would you go for one that benefits most from this caster level increase or pick one that it doesn't matter much for?
Found a similar thread
here
but it left me wanting.
Having a bit of trouble figuring out how this works with regards to attack and damage.
Assume a deaf dwarven oracle of the dark tapestry with the Many Forms revelation.
Have started to love the idea of shapeshifting into a wolf and using the Ironbeard spell to give myself cold iron hackles to attack with. Visually I imagine these as secondary attacks to the bite's primary but rules-wise I can't figure this out.
Firstly, taking Still Spell will let me cast spells while polymorphed, yes? (Deaf curse gets Silent on all their spells cast already)
For anyone who needs it, Ironbeard is:
Ironbeard:
The ironbeard grants a +1 armor bonus to AC, and this bonus stacks with any armor worn by the creature. The ironbeard may also be used as a weapon equivalent to cold iron armor spikes. The ironbeard makes it difficult to speak, so any spellcasting with a verbal component has a 20% spell failure chance.
Haven't figured out stats and stuff yet but say, 18 strength at level 7.
BAB would be +5. Shapeshifting to medium wolf would make it a 20 str.
Normally I'd have bite+10 (1d6+7), because 1.5*str to damage since it's my only natural attack, yes?
So, what attacks/damage would casting Ironbeard give me then? And would it affect the already existing bite attack/damage? When I searched all I could find was information on armour spikes and two weapon fighting, would two weapon fighting be needed here to get attacks with both or make this better somehow?
Just in case my players happen upon this thread, please look elsewhere.
Would appreciate advice on the balance of an end of game Lich.
So, end of a 2 year campaign coming up, my first campaign GMing, and I decided to go as stereotypical as possible and have a massive undead army type game. They've fought through every challenging encounter (not without casualties along the way) and beaten their way to the lair of the Big Bad, and are currently trying to find their way through a surprisingly effective maze. The problem is I'm not sure if my BBEG falls on the too broken/not powerful enough side of the scale.
It's a Lich, CR of APL + 3, (they're level 9, he's CR 12), necromancer and golemancer type flavour, and I'll be giving him some minions so he's not alone while the party has an NPC support+smashing oriented ally to balance things out, hopefully.
Minor Stuff:
The problem is I like to play hard and fast with the rules, rewarding fun non-standard party tactics but also coming up with fun non-standard enemy tactics (which I feel suits this Lich's title of the Mad Sorcerer [a misnomer, since he's actually a sort of mix of wizard arclord tattooed mystic umbral agent]). It's been very much a rules-lax game, I just don't know how to tell if an encounter is going to be crushing victory, crushing defeat or anything in between.
He rose to power in a magocracy by eliminating all the other magi, experimenting on their corpses and absorbing a fraction of their power (gaining spell like or supernatural abilities reflected via his levels in arclord etc.)
I also have a habit of accidentally breaking my bad guys.
Offence:
Speed 20ft Fly 60ft
Melee: melee touch +6
Ranged: ranged touch +13
I've gone with no save or die spells, most of the damaging options are acidic damage over time type things (10d4 acid every round for 4 rounds, in 1 target, multitarget and single target dazing varieties), then there's cloudkill, widened black tentacles and acid pit for some cc. As well as a fog that sickens and nauseates, haunting mists, and grease for no real reason. Though at this stage most of them fly so I'm thinking that black tentacles will be used to grapple and drag them down into the more lethal ground conditions. I also have hostile juxtaposition and enemy hammer for some hilarity.
My other straight damage type spells all come from his staff (modeled off a staff of fire) with the spells boneshatter, ray of enfeeblement, and a spell which is like a mix between scorching ray and vampiric touch that I'm calling blood siphon. It's also his bonded object, and they've been told that it's of major importance to him as a source of much of his power.
Defence:
AC 31 Touch 19 Flatfoot 23
HP 127
Fort +13, undead
Ref +12, immune to cold, electricity
Will +14, +4 vs channel
His defences are where I think I've gone overboard, since he has a buffed AC of 31 (and through various plot related silliness on the player's part he does know they're coming and most of what they're capable of) as well as having access to some spells he otherwise wouldn't have, like stone shield (reskinned as bone shield), fester, shared sacrifice and the ranger spell protective spirit (in this case a protective shadow). As well as the normal protection from energy, resist energy, fly and improved invisibility. As well as being a lich, with the immunity to cold, electricity, fear aura, paralysis and undead traits that that brings. Though on the other hand the players have discovered all of the lich-related characteristics as well, so should have prepared accordingly? And know that he has a non-standard spell list as well. And are about to enter the part of the dungeon where they can discover at least partially how non-standard it is and can glean what some of his tactics might be.
Special:
Then there are the swift action abilities he has, including transmutation's perfection of self for repeated temporary hit point meatshields and conjuration's swift action teleport, free extend spell to all conjuration creation spells, and cheaper widen spell metamagics, counterspell mastery, and binding trine from tattooed mystic, as well as the ability to disguise his spellcasting to be misidentified.
I don't know, it's been going round and round in my head for ages. Have I gone completely overboard? Or does it just sound like a fun challenge? Or a cakewalk for the party? (Who are a synthesist summoner, a druid, a twf rogue, a blasty oracle and an inquisitor, backed by a rage prophet npc)
I'll likely be going with minor golems and shadows for his backup, so they can avoid most of his AoE cc, as well as illusions, for fun and silliness.
