I'm fine with this if Gorum's church's reaction isn't despair or "time to find new god" but "Time for glorious final battle!" as they become empowered by god giblets raining down
This is how my PF1 Warpriest from when we played Kingmaker would handle it. He'd resign as General, go to the Eye of Dread, and fight undead hordes until either he dies, or Gorum is reborn. "Through battle was Gorum born; through battle shall he be reborn. GORUM WITNESS!"
- Rovagug: Same as Lamashtu, but 10 years of worrying about him getting out, him dying would feel like an appropriately built up event. likely to generate the most fuss, and could lead to interesting stories, thogh i think theres supposed to be an existing deity taking over the place of the god, so that's why this isnt my #1 pick. high chance
An important meta point for this one, Arazni is going to be the new member of the Core 20, but she is not taking the portfolio of the dead deity. So, if they kill Rovagug, Arazni would be the new member of the Core 20, but she would not take over any of Rovagug's portfolio or domains. It's not a 1 to 1 replacement.
"TheGoofyGE3K wrote:
- Abadar: My personal pick. Killing the god of cities and wealth and whatnot i think is the biggest shake up to the setting. If all the major cities suddenly are no more, and all the wealth gets out of whack, it would make for very interesting setting implications, and someone...
Abadar does have one very big meta reason for not being the one to be killed: If killing Abadar would completely disrupt wealth and currency systems across Golarion, then Paizo would need to publish rules for how to adjust prices of all equipment based on region, settlement size, surrounding country's natural resources, and all the other real-world factors that go into pricing of goods and services. No more "a longsword is 15 sp, no matter if you buy it in Cheliax or Osirion." I don't think adding an economics mini-game to the shopping mini-game would make for an improvement in overall gameplay.
Also, arguably the most major city, Absalom, is the headquarters of the in-world organization that is Paizo's Organized Play Campagin, the Pathfinder Society. I don't think they'd wreck that, which gives Abadar additional meta protection.
While Player Core 1 has fewer spell options, I don't think it's a huge problem yet. There will be plenty more spells in Player Core 2, and even more spells will come out in other sourcebooks down the line. Given that Paizo considers the "Core" rules of the Remaster to be Player Core 1, Player Core 2, GM Core, and Monster Core, they would expect players to eventually utilize the content in those books as their core game and have all of the options in those books (even outside of the online sources).
There's also the fact that some spells that were separate were combined, which contributes to the smaller number of spells. For instance, Player Core 1 no longer has the Web spell, but the Arcane spell list now has access to Entangling Flora (the renamed Entangle), which already had very similar Failure/Critical Failure conditions. Web gave additional options for those trapped in it to get around it via Athletics checks but that isn't a huge loss, since the Arcane spell list still has an option on it that fills the same niche.
I also think you're underestimating the "decision paralysis" of a massive spell list. While this is purely anecdotal, I know multiple people who flat out refused to play casters in PF1 due to how large the spell lists were. Even if you told them to just stick to the core rulebook spells, they still didn't want to do it due to the sheer number of options. When my wife finally did try a caster, she went Inquisitor (so it was spontaneous and a smaller spell list), and she still asked me to curate the list down to a few options each time she got new spells.
Having a smaller spell list in Player Core 1 may be better for the purpose of onboarding a new player who doesn't want to feel too overwhelmed by the amount of choice available. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's better for the game overall, or that it's better for experienced players like, I presume, you and I, but for a newbie? That smaller spell list looks a lot less intimidating, especially since they already had a lot of options for background and all the various kinds of feats.
As to Paizo's PDFs lagging in terms of glossary, clickable links, and searchability, I think that is a problem, and perhaps can be provided to them in the form of feedback here. It might be something they can implement for future PDFs, before going back and updating old ones.
It could be Redcelt's Game of Thrones in Brevoy as that sounds like something that would have been in the wheelhouse. Otherwise it could be one of Dudemeister's changes over there - they were fairly comprehensive in a lot of ways.
You could also allow the militia to be able to help mitigate the effects of the giant Owlbear attack at the end of Rivers Run Red. Maybe they provide a bonus to the check or allow them to improve the result by one step.
Dudemeister's changes are also pretty great - I don't think the rules would be too difficult to update.
One change from OGL PF2 to Remaster that you will likely see come up a lot in the Kingmaker adventure path is flat-footed. Flat-footed is now off-guard in the Remaster, so any time you see text referring to making a creature flat-footed, you can substitute off-guard for flat-footed.
So far, all arguments against Nethys dying seem to be "Forgotten Realms kept killing off their goddess of magic, and Paizo wouldn't pull that same stunt"; but I'm (actually genuinely) wondering how valid that line is.
I wouldn't say it's 'valid' (and who would, btw?), more like the stunt is unwelcome. As far as I understand it's not at all a popular plot move in dnd space now. And there aren't any reasons it would be more popular here for Golarion, especially when seen as a copy of Wizards' moves.
Truth be told that's sort of my concern with killing off deities in general.
Sure, "this god is now dead" is dramatic. But it undermines the new core rulebook that was just published, and when done at an edition change it's very easy for it to feel like a stunt.
And of course comic books and the Forgotten Realms show us what happens if you kill off too many iconic characters. No one these days is actually worried when the joker or the Fantastic Four or Drizzt bites it. Because they've all died and been resurrected too many times to count.
I love Golarion in part because it's not the tangled mess of "how many times has Mystra died again? Which retcon are we on now?" that is Faerun. So while I'm very interested in the War of the Immortals arc I can't shake the feeling that I have seen this all before, and that it can lead down a very silly road.
A valid concern. There are some things from a Paizo standpoint that make me less concerned about that potential outcome.
First, Paizo's staff have often stated that, under normal circumstances, it typically takes 2-3 years for a new rulebook or adventure to go from conception to release. The Remaster books are an exception to this, largely because they are being done as a reaction to an external decision rather than an internal decision (Hasbro/WotC's attempt to insist the OGL was not perpetual).
Second, Luis Loza has previously stated that discussions about killing off one of the Core 20 began in the summer of 2022, before the OGL debacle, and that the move from the OGL to the ORC does not have any bearing on which of the Core 20 is being killed.
Basically, while Paizo themselves made the decision to decouple completely from the OGL, had Hasbro/WotC never tried to say it wasn't perpetual, they probably wouldn't have at this point. That means the Remaster wouldn't exist right now, and everything would still be working off the original PF2 Core Rulebook.
Paizo also doesn't consider the Remaster a new edition - rather, they view it as a significant errata patch, as everything from PF2 that isn't published under the Remaster ruleset is still fully compatible with the Remaster ruleset with almost minimal conversion.
Finally, gods who have been killed before have stayed dead. Aroden is the most popular example, but Churcanus, the god who orginally held Beasts in his portfolio, was murdered by Lamashtu, who took Beasts from his portfolio and ascended to god-status that way.
TL;DR - Whichever god Paizo kills, I have enough faith in Paizo's storytelling ability to believe that the god will not only stay dead (not being ressurected) but they will do it in a way that doesn't leave the world a tangled mess.
When I was a player for the 1E version, our GM did this. It was very cool. I do have a couple suggestions:
1) Make sure the hex graph paper is big enough for the entire map on one sheet.
2) Fill in the location of Brevoy and the road leading to Oleg's in advance. It would make more sense that they would easily be able to know where those destinations are.
I also stand by more Skill Increases simply for being able to unlock more Structures. A given group is likely only going to play Kingmaker once. A given group should be able to unlock whatever they want, in the base rules Skill Increases were few enough you really needed to use them for the most important Skills.
This was one of my biggest issues with the Kingdom Skills as written, especially if the players don't know the rules well enough to know what skills they need to have in order to build the structures they want to build.
My plan for running this was 1 year of downtime for Kingdom Building in between chapters. Since the events of Blood for Blood aren't supposed to start until the Kingdom is level 4, I decided to sim one year of Kingdom Building from founding. After 9 turns, I estimated that it would take 4-5 in-game years of Kingdom Building before the Kingdom gained enough XP to be level 4. The XP gain was seriously lacking. This ties into the next two problems directly.
Because you can't grow settlements beyond a Village until you get to Kingdom Level 3, you'll run out of things to build in each of your settlements fairly quickly.
Tying into that is the fact that you can only build Farms within a settlement's area of influence, which settlements don't have until they become Towns at level 3. That means you need to continually either spend RP to pay Consumption or use a lot of gather food commodity/trade commodities actions every turn until you can grow your settlements to Towns. Which is good because a lot of Leadership Activities aren't always useful or can only be used if you are at least Trained in a skill.
Ultimately, the most egregious issue with the Kingdom Building Rules as written is the XP gain is far too slow. This is also easy to solve by increasing the amount of XP gained for unused resource points (RP) to 5 or 10 XP per RP, or by using milestone leveling on the Kingdom itself.
I also have lots of opinions about the limited number of skills Kingdoms get, but the rules are playable without any changes there. As demlin said, just make sure your players choose Magic as one of their Kingdom Skills and do a Supernatural Solution Leadership Activity every turn.
This is a very intriguing scenario. I can't guarantee I'll finish a submission by the time you're ready to choose, but I'll see what I can come up with.
Stat 1:4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 4, 3) = 16 Stat 2:4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 2, 2) = 14 Stat 3:4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 6, 3) = 18 Stat 4:4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 4, 3) = 11 Stat 5:4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 2, 2) = 9 Stat 6:4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 2, 1) = 5
Stat 4 Reroll 1:1d6 ⇒ 1 Stat 5 Reroll 1:1d6 ⇒ 6 Stat 6 Reroll 3:3d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 6) = 12
Stat 4 Reroll 1:1d6 ⇒ 6 Stat 6 Reroll 1:1d6 ⇒ 5
13, 12, 15, 13, 12, 16. How delightfully well-rounded.
That'll do nicely. I will note that you accidentally typed 2d6 damage for the sporting blaster rifle instead of 3d6, but that's a typo, not an issue.
Anyway, due to Robert Henry's decision to withdraw his character, and Koral Dray'ith informing me via PM that they don't have bandwidth for another game, I've got 7 submissions left. That makes this choice really easy. I'm going to accept everyone to the game.
So, everyone, go ahead over to the Discussion thread. You all made it!
Boy, that's a name. Would you mind if I shortened it in some way so I don't have to type it out every time OOC?
Anyway, stat block review. You have Jedi listed as class, but I think Noble is what you intended to take based on everything else in the stat block.
For languages, you start with Basic and Ryl, the Twi'lek language. Huttese is fairly common amongst the Twi'lek people, and a trade language like Bocce or Sy Bisti could be helpful. Bocce's a bit more universal whereas Sy Bisti is more of an Outer Rim language. While you can't speak it, you can take Binary to understand droids. For another trade-based species, Nemoidian wouldn't be terrible choice. Given Sai'liani'yi Vanyari's political ambitions, High Galactic could be a good choice, as well. Most beings you encounter will be able to understand Basic, and a majority will be able to speak it or have translators nearby.
As far as gear goes, I would suggest investing in a blaster pistol, regular or sporting. I have never seen a Utility Belt be a bad choice either. A datapad would probably make sense for your character, as well. Don't feel like you have to spend every credit - sometimes having a pile of credits leftover from character creation can be useful.
Backstory is okay. Still not 100% clear on why Sai'liani'yi wasn't taken to the Jedi Temple as a child to be tested for Force Sensitivity, or why the Council granted her father permission to go raise his daughter. I'd like that expanded on, or if you prefer, you can leave that open-ended as something Sai'liani'yi doesn't know, and I can fill in the blanks later.
R2-AC Ace:
Stat block generally looks good. Using the 2nd-Degree Droid stats gives you an extra +2 Dex, -2 Str in Ability Score adjustments if you want to apply those and tweak your Point Buy slightly.
You have 2 Skill Focus feats listed, and you only get 1 feat at level 1, so you'll need to pick one of those. My Skill Focus House Rule also only provides a +3 bonus at level 1, increasing to a +6 bonus at Level 10.
You also have an extra Skill (8 vs 7), so one of those will need to be dropped.
Disabled Restraining Bolts are actually a class feature of the Independent Droid prestige class. You can take levels in that class as soon as you qualify, but the restraining bolt port will be functional until then.
For Droid Systems, Accessories, and Weapons, I'm clocking you as having spent 4855 credits out of 4000 (1000 Droid Systems + 3000 Scoundrel) once I include the stun pistol, ion pistol, and licensing for both. That does not include the 2 appendages, the heuristic processor, or the wheeled locomotion you get for free. You may need to scale down some of your accessories and upgrade later.
One of the reasons I don't use the Droid Chassis system is because the focus on replicating a specific type of droid often means they end up being superior to someone who wanted to make a Custom Droid, instead of being balanced against each other. I find it smoother to just have everyone use the Custom Droid rules.
Backstory looks good. I appreciate the openings left for PC collaboration. Don't forget to list out 2 NPCs Ace knows, 2 Short Term Goals, 2 Long Term Goals, and 2 Intangible Motivations.
You also need to pick a Destiny, either a broad Destiny category, a specific Destiny you want for the character, or you can leave it entirely up to me.
Announcement: While submissions are closed later today, if you still have any final adjustments or tweaks to make to your character, either from my notes or anything you aren't happy with, you may do so. I won't make a final selection until Friday.
I can't find the cost of an astrogation buffer anywhere.
Hmm. That's odd, you would think they'd have a price listed so other droids could have it.
I took a look at the R2-series astromech stat block, and it lists the astrogation buffer as a form of internal storage there. Let's price it the same as a Hidden Core - 200 credits for an Astrogation Buffer of 5. You can purchase it twice to get an Astrogation Buffer of 10.
EDIT: It doesn't list how an astrogation buffer works, either. I wonder if that got cut in the final printing of the book. Here's how I'm going to rule it:
Astrogation Buffer: This droid processor system is typically installed in astromech and piloting droids in order to ease hyperspace travel over normal routes. The astrogation buffer automatically stores all hyperspace routes the astromech calculates, up to the maximum size of the buffer. Older routes are automatically overwritten by newer routes unless the droid either chooses not to store a route or is ordered not to store a route. The droid can erase the contents of its astrogation buffer as a full-round action if its owner orders it to. If the droid has had its restraining bolt port removed, it can erase the contents of the astrogation buffer as a full-round action of its own free will. Alternatively, the astrogation buffer can be forcibly erased by a third party if they succeed on a Use Computer check with a DC equal to the droid's Will Defense. A Hidden Core has sufficient storage to back up 1 route from an astrogation buffer.
A droid with an astrogation buffer only takes a -5 penalty on a Use Computer check to calculate a hyperspace route in 1 round, provided the route is one that the droid has stored in its astrogation buffer. This droid accessory costs 200 credits for a buffer of 5 routes. This can be purchased twice for a total astrogation buffer size of 10 routes.
Oh, by the players. Okay, that's a different story then. Dathomir is fine - most of the planet that would have that first impression on NPCs are either a lot better settled (i.e. Nar Shaddaa) or are dominantly non-human.
That destiny is somewhat outside the scope of the campaign, but I'll find something that will work for it.
Liberation is a perfectly fine Destiny. Any specifics, or would you prefer to leave those up to me?
Dathomir's not really that well known of a planet. It's fairly remote, not being on any major trade routes, and hasn't been the recipient of much corporate or galactic attention. Outside of various deadly creatures, there isn't much reason for people to go there. I'm fine with the choice of Dathomir, but you'll probably find a lot of people don't know much about it - if they even know the name.
Everything looks good otherwise.
Philo Pharynx I'd like you to rebuild the character using the standard Custom Droid stats from the core rules, not the Astromech Droid chassis. If you stick with a Small droid, you may swap the Tracked locomotion system for a Wheeled Locomotion system at no cost.
I see a "?" next to Destiny that links to a Background. The Background system is slightly different than the Destiny system. You can look here to see if there's a Destiny that works. Alternatively, you can leave the Destiny a mystery, and I'll create one for you.
Skills look good.
Gear looks good.
For the background, I'm not 100% sold on Dathomir as a planet of origin. I'd like to know more about the thought process behind that choice, as it doesn't seem to have much, if any, effect on the actual character.
If you keep Dathomir as the planet of origin, I'd like to know how Hasdrubal would have reacted to the news that the Separatists invaded Dathomir and destroyed the Nightsisters late in the war. Would he consider returning home, now that their influence is gone?
For some less Dathomir-focused questions, what were the smugglers carrying? Did they find Hasdrubal stowed away aboard the ship? If so, how did they react? When selling his skill with a blaster, did anyone ever offer to hire him as an assassin or hitman?
Current Submissions
Imaginary Crayons - Jaath Rhendal - Human Scoundrel - Complete
Ouachitonian - Zixto - Yaka Jedi - Complete
Storyteller Shadow - Gotal of Umbara - Umbaran Jedi - Complete
Mokmurian the Great - Rilri Tonena - Rodian Soldier - Reviewed
Philo Pharynx - R2-AC "Ace" - 2nd Degree Droid Scoundrel - Under Review
Jereru - Hasdrubal Praag - Human Soldier - Reviewed
Codanous - Koral Dray'ith - Ithorian Scout - Reviewed
Robert Henry - LE-M-07d - 2nd Degree Droid Technician - Reviewed
bigrig107 -
We've got a few people who don't have a lot of experience with or are completely new to the system, so experience with the system isn't a pre-requisite. I've run Saga Edition at the higher (15+) levels before, and I've got a good amount of system knowledge.
Yeah, the Taser is just poorly written. Let's give it a range of 4 squares, and say that after use, you can spend your standard action to deal your damage with it as long as the probes remain attached. However, an enemy can use a swift action to remove the probes, if the probes are not attached to a valid (read: conscious and alive) target, you need to spend a swift action to retract them before you can shoot them again. You also can't move away from the target they are attached to without retracting the probes. Finally, the melee and ranged modes are exclusive, so you can't use them as a melee attack while they're attached to the target of your ranged attack. You would, again, have to spend a swift action to retract them.
You can absolutely keep the current backstory. I feel like right now we have "what happened while it was marooned alone". Let's expand on "what happened after it was rescued". I'd like you to come up with a couple NPCs Lem encountered during that time, either ones who rescued him or people he met afterwards. Don't forget to also write out his 2 short-term goals, 2 long-term goals, and 2 intangible motivations.
If I start as a non-Jedi class and then take Jedi class levels later, does that give me the starting lightsaber for free when I take that class?
Can I even acquire a lightsaber without being a Jedi class?
Yes, multi classing Jedi would grant you the lightsaber, as it's a class feature. However, a lightsaber just "showing up" doesn't necessarily fit well with the narrative of the adventure. If you're open to it, you could multiclass Jedi when you want to and then get the free lightsaber later, when it makes more sense from a narrative standpoint. Of course, if you waited to multiclass Jedi until a point where it makes sense for the story, it wouldn't be an issue.
As for acquiring a lightsaber without being a Jedi class, not realistically at the start. A lightsaber costs 3,000 credits base and has an availability of "Rare". This means that typically it can only be acquired directly from the manufacturer, and, if available on the open market, usually costs double the list price (6,000 credits).
First, while Droids don't have a connection to the Force and can't take the Force Sensitivity feat or Force Powers, I do think they are supposed to have Force Points, so you can have the normal amount (5) of Force Points. How else does R2-D2 survive getting shot by Vader's TIE Advanced x1?
You have Perception listed as +10/+12 up top, but +8/+10 in the skills list. The skills list one looks to be the correct one.
The Taser does a very poor job of explaining how to actually use it in combat. Let's list out your to-hit and damage for both melee and ranged attacks with the Taser. The damage will be 1d8 stun/ion, depending on whether the target is organic or droid.
You forgot to add your Level to all of your Defenses.
Gather Information should be +6 (+1 Cha +5 Trained)
I have a House Rule on Skill Focus that lowers it to a +3 bonus, increasing to +6 at level 10. Mechanics should be +11/+13.
If you are taking Armor Proficiency (light) as your level 1 feat, you don't take the Armor Check Penalty on your Initiative roll. You only take an Armor Check Penalty if you are not proficient in the armor.
I'm fine with the home-brewed Mechanic Talent tree, but the Technological Master talent is not an option.
I'm not using Backgrounds for this one, just Destiny. You'll have to either choose a Destiny for Lem, or leave it up to me.
If you get in, I would like you to write up LE-M-07d's expanded backstory so I know more about what story elements to try and mix into the campaign.
R2-AC:
Sounds good to me.
For creating droids, I'd like players to use these rules, and not use the Droid Chassis rules. Can you rebuild without the Astromech Droid Chassis?
I'm fine with those changes. The background is fine, as well.
If you want to come up with an alias Gotal goes by for the licensing and stuff, that's fine. Don't forget that for Restricted items you need to roll the DC 15 Knowledge (bureaucracy) check. You auto-pass for the Licensed items.
Both prestige classes will be available, but I won't say more at this time.
Ouachitonian:
That'll do nicely, thanks. Everything else in the stat block looks good.
For Destiny, you could always just choose the category (e.g. Rescue), and leave the specifics up to me, if you'd like. You could also leave everything up to me, and do a truly secret Destiny.
Otherwise, with a broader Destiny of "preserve the Jedi legacy", we could also go with Education, as in passing on Jedi knowledge to others as a form of preservation, or Creation for creating a repository of Jedi Knowledge and legacy. We can stick with Rescue, as well, it just feels a little more clunky.
Current Submissions
Imaginary Crayons - Jaath Rhendal - Human Scoundrel - Reviewed
Ouachitonian - Zixto - Yaka Jedi - Complete Pending Final Destiny Choice
Storyteller Shadow - Gotal of Umbara - Umbaran Jedi - Complete
Mokmurian the Great - Rilri Tonena - Rodian Soldier - Reviewed
Philo Pharynx - R2-AC "Ace" - 2nd Degree Droid Scoundrel - Review Point Buy
Jereru - Mercenary
Codanous - Koral Dray'ith - Ithorian Scoundrel - Reviewed
Robert Henry - LE-M-07d - 2nd Degree Droid Technician - Reviewed
bigrig107 -
Fortitude and Will Defense are good, but Reflex should be 16 (10+2 Armor+1 Class+3 Dex = 16), with flat-footed 13.
Talent and Feat look good.
You have one Trained skill too many - Soldiers get 3 + Int (1) for a total of 4 Trained skills for Rilri.
You need to make the DC 15 Restricted Knowledge (bureaurcracy) check for the blaster rifle and pay the licensing fee.
I have the total cost of your purchases as being 3,065 credits, 65 over the maximum of 3,000. That is not including the licensing for the blaster rifle.
Looking at your backstory, the Jedi Order of the time generally went to great lengths to keep Younglings from communicating with their family, in addition to taking them to Coruscant for training in their infancy or toddlerdom, at best. How did Rilri manage to keep in contact with her, and make sure she didn't forget him? I'm okay with you doing so, I'm just giving you a little writing prompt to figure out the how.
Jaath Rhendal:
Point Buy looks good.
Reflex Defense should be 15 (10 + 1 Level + 2 Dex + 2 Scoundrel), flat-footed 13
Fort Defense should be 12 (10 + 1 Level + 1 Con)
Will Defense should be 12 (10 + 1 Level + 0 Wis + 1 Scoundrel)
Damage Threshold should be 12 (make sure to note it somewhere)
You get 2 more languages due to your Int score.
Skills are fine. Talent is fine - if you want to swap Knack for Force Perception, that's okay too. You'll want to train a different skill in place of Perception, though.
You should have 5 feats total - 3 Scoundrel, 1 Human, and 1 for being a Level 1 character.
So, the way armor works in Saga Edition is that, when calculating your Reflex Defense, you use EITHER your Heroic Level (1 in this case) or your Armor Bonus (also 1 with the Tracker Utility Vest). You also need to be proficient in the category of armor, or take the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls and certain skills. Since you are not proficient in Light Armor, that would a -2 penalty while wearing the vest.
You need to roll the Knowledge (bureaucracy) checks for the blaster pistol and hold-out blaster. Because the Hold-Out Blaster is Illegal, you need to pay the Black Market price, which is 1500 credits (plus 750 credits licensing fee).
You will need to buy Power Packs for the blaster pistol. Energy Cells only work with the holdout blaster or glow rods.
Turning attention to the backstory: The Twi'lek homeworld is Ryloth, to help fill that in. I have several additional questions for expansion:
Why was Jaath at the protest to meet Telzha?
How much time elapsed between meeting Telzha and meeting the resistance members?
Did he and Telzha actually have a relationship, or was it purely one-sided?
When his father arranged to have the resistance members arrested, did he have any actual charges to lay against them, or were the charges completely fabricated?
Was he there when the security forces moved in to make the arrests, or did he find out about them later?
How did he meet Vhoe Bock?
Zixto:
I'm getting 30 on the Point Buy instead of 28.
Str 10 (Base 8 + 2 Points)
Dex 16 (Base 8 + 10 Points)
Con 12 (Base 8 + 4 Points)
Int 14 (Base 8 + 4 Points +2 Species)
Wis 12 (Base 8 + 4 Points)
Cha 12 (Base 8 + 6 Points -2 Species)
The backstory looks good, but let's get the Point Buy fixed before I delve too far into the rest of the stat block.
Gotal:
Point Buy looks good.
All the other numbers look good, but I'm questioning some of the skill/Talent choices. Gotal being good at diplomacy yet not having the Persuasion skill trained or the Adept Negotiator talent doesn't feel like it necessarily fits. Would you be open to either swapping a trained skill for Persuasion or swapping your Illusion talent for Adept Negotiator (to head down that path) and one of your Force Powers for the Cloak Force Power out of the Clone Wars Campaign Guide?
EDIT: I'll also add that the base Illusion talent doesn't let you disguise yourself - you need the Masquerade talent for that.
I also don't see any real combat options outside of Force Powers. That may be something for you to consider once you purchase equipment, especially if Gotal is supposed to be keeping a low profile. Even a badly aimed blaster bolt is less suspicious than a floating crate.
R2-AC:
I'm clocking a 25 Point Buy after 2nd-Degree Droid adjustments, and Droids only have a 24 Point Buy.
Str 9 = 8 Base + 1 Point
Dex 16 = 8 Base + 10 Points
Con --
Int 16 = 8 Base + 6 Points + 2 2nd-Degree Droid
Wis 10 = 8 Base + 2 Points
Cha 12 = 8 Base + 6 Points - 2 2nd-Degree Droid
Before I go in-depth on the rest, let's get the Point Buy figured out first.
LE-M:
I'm clocking a 22 Point Buy after 2nd-Degree Droid adjustments, and Droids should have a 24 Point Buy.
Str 10 = 8 Base + 2 Points
Dex 14 = 8 Base + 6 Points
Con --
Int 16 = 8 Base + 6 Points + 2 2nd-Degree Droid
Wis 14 = 8 Base + 6 Points
Cha 8 = 8 Base + 2 Points -2 2nd-Degree Droid
Before I go over the rest, let's get the Point Buy fixed.
In your house rules you present some clone trooper templates, indicating they're 25-point buys and that we're free to spend the remaining 3 points as we desire. However, doing the math, it seems they add up to 28 just by themselves. Is this some kind of errata, or a compensation for the loss in flexibility?
Let me double check my math. The Clone Wars sourcebook gives a standard array for all Clones, but it adds up to 19 points. The goal was to give Clones a comparable array to other non-droid PCs.
I’m at an amusement park today (sneaking a post in while the wife and kid ride the kiddy train), but it looks like any questions I would have had to answer were already answered by others. Thanks a lot!
I’ll review characters later.
@Jaath Rhendal You can take a talent from any of the Force talent trees as long as you have the Force Sensitivity feat. Just make sure the talent makes sense with the character’s story.
EDIT: Philo Pharynx: Looking at some of the various droid accessories in Scavenger’s, I’m going to price it at 50 credits x Cost Factor per color swap, up to 5 swaps total.
Hey Phntm, decided to submit a Jedi character and keep the Scoundrel on the backburner for now. A few questions:
1) Are you ok with his distancing himself from the Order as part of his background? I do not consider him a Gray Jedi by any means, but he was morally against the decision to become generals in a war.
2) Do you want a more in depth background? Happy to do so as I have a few ideas about a deeper dive into all aspects of his life, but don't want to write a treatise if you have no desire to read one.
EDIT: I have a few things to add based on submission guidelines, but the above is my starting point.
1) I'm okay with the distance from the Order, but Gotal is either going to have to be comfortable fighting against the Empire or learn to become comfortable with fighting against the Empire. You might struggle with the adventure if you choose a character who wants to avoid fighting. Diplomacy will have its moments, but combat is inevitable.
2) I'd like it to read a little more narratively, and you can include as much detail as you'd like. I'll read the whole thing.
I want Jaath be the son of a noble and work him into a multiclass Noble/Scoundrel or Scoundrel/Noble...but am unsure which class should go first. I'm not looking to min/max here, I just don't want to end up unintentionally hampering him as I plan for his long-term development.
Obviously starting with Scoundrel and having it revealed that he has noble connections works, but having him grow from privileged noble into the life of a scoundrel works too. Depending on how it plays out, I'm strongly considering the Force Sensitive feat as well, but we'll see how that goes.
I know there's always the saying "Play what you want." and I'm trying to do so. Just unfamiliar enough with the system to be effective at it. LOL
Since I am using Fractional Base Attack Bonus as a house-rule, you won't be hampering yourself with that multiclass. Force Sensitivity also needs to be taken at Level 1 per house rule, so if you want to be Force Sensitive, that will have to be a Level 1 feat.
For deciding which class to start with, consider: Since Scoundrel gives you Point Blank Shot as a starting feat, a Scoundrel will be more combat effective with a blaster at level 1. However, the Noble will give you more initial Trained Skills, which can open up more options down the line when considering additional feats and prestige classes. Narrowing the choice down to "More up front combat effectiveness" vs "More options down the line" could help with your decision.
It’ll be an interesting build, a Force-sensitive (probably but not necessarily Jedi) from a Charisma penalty race. But given the campaign I was thinking less Space Wizard and more Force-enhanced Melee fighter (with or without Lightsaber, haven’t decided yet), so that’s not as big a hurdle as it could be.
Don't forget that you take a -1 penalty on Use the Force checks for each Cybernetic Device you have.
Koral Dray'ith:
Okay, here's what I'm noticing right off the bat. I'm going off the assumption he's a Scout, as originally said, although that doesn't appear to be noted on the sheet.
Point Buy is accurate.
Your Hit Points as a scout with 12 Con should be 25 (24 base +1 Con), not 19. Scouts are a d8 class.
Your defenses look like they accidentally got switched. Fortitude should be 10 + 1 Level + 1 Class + 1 Con = 13. Reflex should be 10 + 1 Level + 2 Class + 3 reflex = 16 (13 flat-footed). Will should be 10 + 1 Level + 0 Wis + 2 Iron Will = 13. Damage Threshold should be 13.
Let's move Bellow, Iron Will, and Survival Instinct to a separate "Special Qualities" or SQ line, so they aren't lumped in with the Feats. It's just a readability thing.
Speaking of feats, Scouts do not get Armor Proficiency (Light) as a starting feat. You can take this as your level 1 feat, if you choose. However, you also have Skill Focus (Pilot) and Point Blank Shot listed as feats, as well. You only have 1 feat as a level 1 (nonhuman) character, so you will have to choose one of those and take the others later.
Moving on to Skills, you appear to have only selected 5 of 7 Trained Skills. I'm not sure why the Acrobatics skill is listed, since it doesn't appear trained, and Scouts also do not have Use Computer or Acrobatics as a class skill. So you only have 4 of your 7 Trained Skills selected, really.
You are missing the two languages granted by your Int bonus.
You need to roll the DC 15 Restricted Knowledge (bureaucracy) check for the Blaster Pistol. Make sure to note that it's licensed and that you spend the credits on it.
I'm assuming you have a Basic Datapad, since your equipment with a standard datapad would cost more than 3000 credits.
All of the above feedback is prefaced on the assumption that Koral is a Scout. If he is a Scoundrel, however, the Hit Points become accurate, as do the Trained Skills (although Acrobatics should be +8, not +3). Plus, Point Blank Shot becomes a starting feat, which gets you that back, as well. Scoundrel also adjusts the Fort Defense to 12, and the Will Defense to 14.
I haven't gotten to your backstory yet, but it feels like this character was originally made for a higher level game (possibly with some extra house rules, like giving Scouts Armor Proficiency (light) and Point Blank Shot as a starting feat), and it still needs some work to finish converting back to level 1 and to meet the character creation guidelines for this game. Let's get the mechanics tuned up for this game, then I'll finish reviewing your character.
Heyo, just want to offer Koral Dray'ith as a submission. He is an Ithorian Scout. Focus on Piloting, mechanics and computer use. This ordinarily peaceful Ithorian couldn't stand by and watch the new Empire subjugate his people and his homeworld in order to exploit its forests for their unique intelligent trees.
His efforts were rewarded only with Exile from the Ithorian people for going against their normally pacifist ways. He's found himself as an exiled Ithorian, still believing that pacifism won't stop the Empire and looking to join others to what is right to free his people and nis planet.
Are you still in the process of building the character? I went to take a look, and it seems like you're still in the process of modifying it from a higher level submission.
@Koral Dray'ith Thanks for the submission. I'll look over it later today.
@Jereru I understand that one all too well.
@Robert Henry Wookies are fine - and they have a built-in reason to hate the Empire!
@bigrig107 The linked Wiki is helpful, and I or others here are happy to answer any questions you have. I very much enjoy Saga Edition as an RPG, so I'm always happy to introduce it to others.
Ouachitonian wrote:
Ok. I want to use the Near-Human rules to build a Yaka. Great race that doesn't get nearly enough time in the limelight, and explicitly near-human! They're explicitly described as tall, having a large frame, and averaging over two meters, so for the minor physiological variation, Towering ("Over 2 meters tall, although the additional height does not change the character's Size") seems like a no-brainer. There's a couple of ways I could take the trait that replaces the bonus feat or bonus trained skill:
A) Cultural Cybernetics ("Culture commonly augments members with cybernetics from birth. Select one cybernetic enhancement.) Yaka explicitly augment their children from birth with cybernetics, which is why they're genius-level intellects. But there's not actually a cybernetic enhancement that enhances the intellect (indeed, even Cyborg Hybrids are explicitly banned from taking a Processor).
B) Ability Adjustment ("Increase one ability score by 2 and reduce another by 2 to account for emphasis in certain attributes (such as strength or intelligence).") I'd be enhancing INT, perhaps explaining it notionally as cybernetics but not putting any in there in actual game terms. Not sure what I'd decrease yet.
There is one other possibility: The text says "replacing either the bonus trained skill or the bonus feat that Humans
normally receive." Emphasis mine. If you're willing to let me replace both/and, instead of either/or, I'd do that happily.
What do you think, GM? (Anyone else in the thread, I'm happy to hear your opinions as well.)
I'm leaning towards allowing both/and, but I'll make a final decision later.
For the Ability Adjustment, I think +2 Int/-2 Cha would make sense. The Charisma penalty would reflect the Yakas' lack of facial expression and twisted sense of humor being off-putting to others.
For Cultural Cybernetics, a custom "Yaka Cybernetic Brain" device that provided a "Reroll, take the second result" on Knowledge checks might be the key there.
It's okay. I typed that block up in Google Docs first, then copy-pasted it, and looking at it on the forum it could have used a little more formatting to make it more readable.
@Jaath Rhendal Welcome! Sounds like it could be an interesting concept, regardless of whether or not you choose Scout or Scoundrel. Do keep in mind that, thanks to the abundance of talent trees, it is very doable to have multiple Scoundrels in a single party and have them all play differently.
@Ouachitonian I know, right? There's so many interesting ideas. The Near-Human rules are fine, but I do ask that you let me know what abilities you choose, just so I can review them first.
@Storyteller Shadow Hey, good to see you're still around! Umbarans are fine.
@Mokmurian the Great Interesting concept. I look forward to seeing how it comes together.
@Philo Pharynx How intriguing. Let me look at some comparable items to come up with a price for that.
@Jereru The inevitable blaster fights will prove how useful that firepower is, I'm sure.
Important Story Note I forgot to mention, but at this time, the Rebel Alliance does not exist. At best, you have scattered insurgencies throughout the galaxy (such as Saw Gererra's people). There is no central coordination or communication between groups, and they may be just as likely to fight each other as the Empire, depending on their views.
It was thought to be the beginning of a new era of prosperity for the galaxy. The Clone Wars that had caused so much bloodshed and strife ended four years ago, following three momentous events: first, the defeat of the Separatist General Grievous on Utapau; second, the failed Jedi coup against Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palpatine; and third, the birth of the New Order, with the Supreme Chancellor now the Emperor. Peace was brought to the galaxy at last, and all beings would flourish under Imperial Rule. The Jedi had been destroyed for their treachery, and safety and security would be assured for all.
And yet, something feels off about this new government. The Republic-turned-Imperial war machine has shown no signs of being disbanded - indeed, it seems to be increasing, as Imperial shipyards and factories churn out more ships and weapons. The clone troopers have been replaced by stormtroopers, and are found on even more worlds than before. What were once independent planetary defense fleets are integrated into the new Imperial Military. Those who speak out against the Empire seem to meet with strange accidents, or disappear without a trace. There is a certain feel in the galaxy - “oppressive” seems to be the best word to describe it, although few are willing to use the term.
It is into this climate that you have arrived at Sel Zonn station, an orbiting space platform above the Core World of Brentaal. Is this but another stop on your journey? Or is Sel Zonn station where you will meet your destiny…
Welcome to my recruitment for Dawn of Defiance, a Star Wars: Saga Edition Adventure Path that will take the players from level 1 to level 20 upon completion. There may be some deviation from the campaign as written, based on the accepted characters’ backgrounds and party actions during play. I will be selecting 4-6 players for this campaign. Below, you will find the character creation guidelines, as well as my personal house rules for the campaign. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. As of now, recruitment will be open until 11:59 PM EDT, June 14, 2023 (2 weeks from today). I will make my decisions by that Friday, and we’ll get started on Monday, June 19, 2023. These dates may change based on level of interest (or lack thereof).
Posting Expectations: I’d like everyone to try and get in 1 post a day Monday - Friday, but no fewer than 2 posts during that 5-day time period, please. If weekend posts happen, that’s great, but not expected, especially as we roll into (Northern Hemisphere) summer. Life happens, so if you won’t be able to post for an extended period of time, please try to let me know. I myself will be mobile-only from June 25-30.
Character Formatting: As long as the information is easily located, I do not have a preference for whether you free-hand create a stat block or use a character sheet generator. Due to the number of options out there, please include the name of the book and page number for any Talents, Feats, Species, or Equipment from outside of the Core Rulebook. I do own all the books.
Character Creation Rules:
Ability Scores: We will be using the Star Wars: Saga Edition Point Buy. You will have 28 points to spend. Droid characters will receive 24 points. You may not raise a stat higher than 18 after ability score modifiers.
Species: Due to the time period, the Ewok, Rakata, Yuuzhaan Vong, Kissai, and Massassi species should be considered off-limits (Ewoks have not yet been discovered, Kissai, Massassi, and Rakata are extinct, and Yuuzhaan Vong are not yet present in the wider galaxy). Also off-limits are Replica Droids, Mantellian Savrips, Arakanian Offshoots, Noghri, Shards, and Blood Carvers. Most other species should be considered in play, although any whose homeworlds are considered to be in the Unknown Regions or who rarely leave their homeworld will require a bit more effort in backstory to be chosen. Droids must use the Custom Droid Hero rules in the Core Rulebook.
The majority of clones have been replaced with recruited/conscripted soldiers, although there are still a few clones left in the Imperial military, mostly in training or (rarely) command roles. If you wish to play a Clone Trooper, you may do so, but you must use one of the below 25-point buy ability arrays, depending on what your clone was designed for:
You may spend the remaining 3 points of the Point Buy as normal, building on your chosen array.
Classes: All base classes are options, including Jedi. Please note, I do not necessarily consider your character class to be your in-universe profession. Don’t, for example, feel that by choosing Scoundrel you are locked into a smuggler-type character. You could just as easily be a former spy, or perhaps the troublemaking child from an aristocratic family. Don’t feel that you need to constrain yourself to certain character types just because of the name of your class.
Alternate Force Traditions: If your character is a member of an alternate Force Tradition and you are capable of doing so (e.g. you can meet any prerequisites), I would like your level 1 talent to be from that Force Tradition’s Talent tree. This is to show that your character has had training in that Force Tradition and can continue to follow that tradition without a teacher. The following alternate Force traditions are not allowed: The Sith, The Witches of Dathomir, The Krath, The Mecrosa Order, The Order of Shasa, The Sable Dawn, The Inquisitorius, The Imperial Knights, The Felucian Shamans, The Bando Gora, The Believers, The Disciples of Twilight, The Ember of Vahl, The Sorcerers of Tund, The Blazing Chain, The Aing-Tii Monks, The Blackguard, The Fallanassi, The Prophets of the Dark Side, and The Seyugi Dervishes.
Starting Wealth/Equipment: You start with the maximum amount of credits for your class. You must pay the licensing costs for all equipment that requires it. All equipment with Availability of Licensed and below can be acquired without issue, and you automatically pass the Licensing Roll. Anything with a Restricted Availability requires you to succeed at the licensing roll or you cannot purchase it. You may make this check twice for any given piece of equipment. Anything with an Availability of Military or above can only be acquired via the Black Market, and you must pay the Black Market cost in addition to the licensing cost and succeeding at the necessary check. NB: Since the Jedi Class gives the Jedi their starting lightsaber as a class feature, this is exempt from the above Equipment rules.
Equipment from the following books requires additional GM approval: Legacy Era Campaign Guide, Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, Galaxy at War, Galaxy of Intrigue, and the Jedi Academy Training Manual.
Destiny/Background: We will be using the Destiny mechanic in this campaign, and we will not be using the Background mechanic from the Rebellion Era Guide. Destinies which see the most use (per the AP) are Destruction, Discovery, and Rescue, but these should not be considered the only options. We are not using the Unleashed options in the Force Unleashed Campaign Guide.
Backstory/Description: Your character’s backstory should contain the following:
The reason they dislike the Empire. The campaign really doesn’t work if anyone is an Imperial loyalist.
Three people your character knows. These can be enemies, allies, or contacts your character trusts/mistrusts. Also tell me whether or not your character knows they are alive or if your character thinks they are dead.
2 Short-term goals you want your character to accomplish, such as buying an item, learning a Force Power, or something like that.
2 Long-term goals you want your character to accomplish, such as buying a ship, getting an entourage/gang/squad, get rich, etc.
2 Non-tangible motivations, such as defend the weak, never tell a lie, and things like that.
Otherwise, the only limit is your creativity. Tell me about your character. How old are they, what have they seen in their life to this point? How did they come to Sel Zonn Station? Why are they here? What do they look like? Any defining features, such as a scar or tattoo? Feel free to use Wookiepedia to help write your backstory - there’s a lot of good information on there. If you are playing a Jedi, tell me how you survived Order 66, as well as how you’ve avoided capture and detection while on the run for the past few years. It’s okay to collaborate with other players on backstory, but know there’s a chance that everyone you collaborate with may not get in.
Recommended Sources: Core Rulebook, Starships of the Galaxy, Scum and Villainy, Force Unleashed Campaign Guide. This is by no means a limit to which books you can use, but they are the ones that I feel contain material that is most thematic to the start of the AP.
A Couple of Notes on Force Use: First, this campaign is set in the Dark Times. The Jedi Order is no more, Darth Vader and the Imperial Inquisitors hunt any remaining Jedi or Force-sensitive beings, and there is an active bounty on Force users. The more you overtly use the Force or a lightsaber, the more you may find yourself encountering bounty hunters, Purge troopers, or even Inquisitors. This could quickly become dangerous to you, specifically, and the party as a whole.
Second, I’m going to be playing up the temptation of the Dark Side for this campaign. As part of this theme, using the Force to directly inflict significant harm upon a living being will cause you to gain a Dark Side Point. Mechanically, this means that if you use a damage-dealing Force Power on a living creature, and that damage exceeds the target’s Damage Threshold, you will gain a Dark Side Point. As an example of direct harm vs indirect harm, using the move object Force power to pick up an adversary and then slamming them into the wall, ceiling, or floor repeatedly is inflicting direct harm. Using the move object Force power to pick up a crate and throw it at that same adversary is inflicting indirect harm. Battle Strike and Lightsaber Form powers do not count as using the Force to directly inflict harm upon a living being, but if you use Force Grip on a living being and exceed their Damage Threshold, that will count as directly inflicting significant harm on a living being. Force powers with the [Dark Side] tag will always give you a Dark Side Point, and you cannot take any feats, talents, or other abilities that would allow you to treat that Force Power as though it doesn’t have the [Dark Side] tag.
House Rules:
1. Multiclassing: When you multiclass base classes, instead of taking one of the new class's starting feats, you can choose to take the Skill Training feat in one of the new class's starting skills instead.
2. We are also using Fractional Base Attack Bonus - e.g. a Scout at level 1 has a Base Attack Bonus of +0.75, rounded down to +0. If the Scout then multiclassed Scoundrel at level 2, the Base Attack Bonus would be +1.5, rounded down to +1, as opposed to still being +0.
3. Skill Focus: Skill Focus now only gives a +3 bonus when you first take it. When you hit level 10, the bonus increases to +6.
4. Force Sensitive feat: Must be taken at 1st level.
5. Force X Talents: Any talent that allows you to substitute a Use the Force check for another skill does NOT benefit from having the Skill Focus feat for Use the Force. However, you count as being Trained in that skill for the purposes of taking the Skill Focus feat for that skill.
Submission Process: I will review submissions throughout the process and keep an active list. I may ask questions about certain events in your backstory if I think there’s an unexplored story thread or two that could be expanded upon. However, I may not ask you to expand on parts of your backstory if I don’t see any obviously unexplored story threads. Questions or lack thereof about your backstory are in no way indicative of your chances of being selected.
Tips to getting selected: Your backstory will be more important than the actual mechanics of your character. I also prefer well-rounded characters to those who do one thing super well at level 1. You’ll have plenty of time to specialize in your preferred option, but try to make sure you can bring more than one trick to the table at the start.
If I’ve missed anything above or if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Remember, you have until 11:59 PM EST, June 14, 2023 to submit your character.
That's what my party did when I was a player through this AP using PF1 - we told bandits that we captured that if they agreed to work at Oleg's for a year and a day, their slate would be wiped clean. Even got Happs to reform that way.
That works, too, although I'd make sure that the PCs still have a way to ally with the Sootscales if they are so inclined.
I agree that Tartuccio needs more time to become a credible antagonist. A lot of the PF2 conversion stuck with the PF1 AP story-wise, while incorporating some new content based on the PC game, and the result is that some of the new stuff works, and some of it isn't so good.
I actually just had the idea of replacing Grigori with Tartuccio, as, depending on what the PCs do with Grigori, he's another one who doesn't come back up despite being an annoyance to them. Apart from not being a Bard, I think he could fill the same role fairly well.
In the original PF1 AP, Tartuk was a gnome who had tried to sell out his village to raiding Ogres and instead got killed for it. The village thought that he was trying to save them and died a hero, so they all chipped in for a scroll of reincarnate and Tartuk was reincarnated as a purple-scaled kobold. He hated kobolds, so he fled his village and since wanders around, looking for Kobold tribes he can try to destroy from within. The players learn this from his journal.
Owlcat took that original backstory and expanded on it with Tartuccio, making him less of a random addition and more integral to the game. You could easily just go back to the original backstory, or maybe even make him Tartuccio's cousin. If the PCs ask Tartuccio about it, he could tell them all about his craven cousin who was reincarnated as a kobold. That way it's not just a matter of there happening to be two unconnected purple gnomes.
