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Rysky wrote:
Phicurious86 wrote:
If you want to be the avenging paladin, you absolutely can, but it's going to come on later in your character progression
And thus the issue.

I guess I don't see why that's a significant issue then. If you want to be an offensive martial character right out of the gate, you have other options. If you want to be an offensive paladin, that's an option too, it just requires some delayed gratification, which is balanced by the fact that you'll have better staying power (thanks LoH) than the other offensive martials.

I just imagine an aspiring paladin heading to the local crusade headquarters and being like "Sign me up for all the classes that will teach me how to smash face." Whereupon the Sergeant-at-arms or whoever replies "Well that's 2nd-year stuff. First, we need to teach you how to be a crusader for justice which necessarily entails learning how to ascertain the difference between good and evil, how to protect the innocent from harm, etc."

Makes sense thematically, is better balanced, and doesn't seem that onerous to have paladins take some time to develop into the Avenging Wrath sort of character. I mean Paizo could add a 4th type of paladin that immediately goes the offensive route but that would need to be balanced and creates more role clutter for offensive martial.


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Reads like lots of paladins want to have their cake and eat it immediately.

If you want to be the avenging paladin, you absolutely can, but it's going to come on later in your character progression and you're not going to be as deadly generally as a fighter or barb (for balance reasons if not theme). If you want to an absolute melee wrecking ball, there are other classes that fit that role better.

Reactions by definition are going to be passive. You're "reacting" to something. If ret strike was made into a free action it'd clearly be unbalanced, but with the 1.6 changes, it looks like it's in a pretty good spot as both an offensive threat and defensive deterrent. Play a few games with and see how it feel.