Pauel's page

He ran away? From evil? A true paladin fights evil in all its forms, and takes the fight to the evildoers, no matter where they may be.

Succubus: Wow! Earthquake?
Paladin: Smite Evil!
Succubus: Wow!!
....
Succubus: I see you're a PF paladin, not a D&D one, because you can do it longer and more often.
Paladin: What?
Succubus: Smite Evil.
Paladin: Ah.
Succubus: That's why I forsook Toughness for Skill Specialisation (Bluff: Double Entendre).

Well he had been level drained a few times and had suggestions put into his head.

He fought for awhile and the succubus managed to suggest he could fly or something like that.

Pauel wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

And if he thinks getting a veneral disease from scoring is bad - I remember one guy getting something nasty because he used the filthy tavern's bathroom.

In one of the games I played in the paladin ended up getting seduced by the local "royal lady" who turned out to be a succubus and he ended up doing a swan dive off of a 4th floor balcony in nothing but his boots and cloak. My rogue thought it was hilarious because I was the one that convinced him to do the lady.

The DM got +1 DM levels for that one.

^_^ That IS hilarious, 'specially if that swan dive was fatal.

It was VERY close. I think he had maybe 4 or 6 hitpoints left. He ended up living. But our group laughs about that night frequently.

And if he thinks getting a veneral disease from scoring is bad - I remember one guy getting something nasty because he used the filthy tavern's bathroom.

In one of the games I played in the paladin ended up getting seduced by the local "royal lady" who turned out to be a succubus and he ended up doing a swan dive off of a 4th floor balcony in nothing but his boots and cloak. My rogue thought it was hilarious because I was the one that convinced him to do the lady.

The DM got +1 DM levels for that one.

I would go with your first interpretation as the per level seems quite clearly relating to the 100gp only to me.

That was my take, but after i started thinking about it...you'd be hard pressed to use 1000 gold in just 10 lbs of equipment at level 10.

So maybe this needs to be tweaked a bit to be say 10 lbs every 5 levels for a total of 30 lbs at level 10.

On the pathfinder Chronicler it states:

Deep Pockets: As a result, she may carry up to 10
pounds of unspecified equipment worth up to 100 gp per
class level.

I'm guessing this reads as 100gp per level NOT 10lbs & 100gp per level as 100 lbs is rather heavy by level 10.

But I guess it could either way.

Thoughts?

Here's the fixes we brought to the bard IMC. We are currently playtesting these through some 3.5 Realms hardcover adventures...

===========================

First, we gave bards 8 skill points per level, on TOP of the existing free knowledge point AND gave it a new free perform point (see PRPG bard rules for the "free knowledge point" explanation).

We then made perform a bit like linguistics: every two ranks grant you one of the eight perform categories: sing, strings, percussions, winds, acting, oratory, etc.) This makes the bard proficient in all 8 "artforms" by level 16... not too overpowered if you ask me, as the nuances between each "performing art" affect the game little (PRPG has some nice rules on certain bardic musics, which uses these nuances, but other than that... the other D&D rules care little what kind of "performance" you are doing, which effectively, proves a point: only bards need two or more different perform skills anyway...)

To make it more fun/complete, we gave a "favored perform art" feature to the bard, which grants +2 to one type of perform check, in a scheme/progression similar to the ranger's favored enemy (i.e. level 1, +2 to perform art 1; level 5, +4 to perform art 1, +2 to perform art 2; level 10, +4/+4/+2; level 15, +4/+4/+4/+2; level 20, +6/+4/+4/+2/+2)

To recap:

BARD ///Perform Skills///
LEVEL /#1/#2/#3/#4/#5/
level 1: /+2/ / / / /
level 5: /+4/+2/ / / /
level 10: /+4/+4/+2/ / /
level 15: /+4/+4/+4/+2/ /
level 20: /+6/+4/+4/+2/+2/

So by level 16, all 8 perform types are learned, and by level 20, 5 perform types have the above bonuses (not including masterwork instrument bonus, if applicable; i.e. perform sing cannot be enhanced via masterwork or magical instrument bonuses, and would be a good candidate for the "primary" +6 bonus for a level 20 bard...)

Thoughts?

I like the progression through performs ala the ranger preferred enemy. And really it makes sense.

I am however questioning whether 8 points is necessary if you are giving a free perform point every level as well. I'll admit that bards are lacking in the skill point area. But I have to question if that's not just a tad too much.

I think either 8 points OR a free perform point but not both. At the point you give them 8 points plus knowledge plus perform points they are essentially a 10 skill point class. Maybe it's just me, I'd like to hear others weigh in on it though.

Bumping. Any more thoughts?

These are some really great ideas.

As the class in PF is currently written they seemed to concentrate on LORE primarily in the update. They did a good job on that. Now they need to concentrate and put more effort into the music and performance.

The colleges could even be divided up into specialty tracks.

Battle bard - gets combat feats like the fighter but not nearly as many at the cost of songs not being as good.

Normal bard - Bardic Songs galore! This track your songs are better.

Caster bard - Concentrate on Wizard Spells. in exchange for bardic songs not being as strong.

Healing Bard - Concentrate on cleric spells. In exchange for bardic songs not being as strong.

Obviously this is just a quick brain storm idea, I believe we have to keep the lore and casting of spells in the mix just for compatibilities sake, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to pick a specialization track.

Every other class has some form of customization or specialization outside of the feats they chose. Rangers get ranged or TWF, Barbarians can pick rage powers, etc etc. Why should the bard be so bland in comparison?

Other than making the sight/sound split moot (unless a restriction on "same sensory class" is put on the performances you can select), I don't think it has much impact on the concerns of this thread; pretty cool idea for flavor, tho. :)

Well one of the big complaints was skill point spending. One thing I DO like is that different bardic abilities require different performance type. What I DON'T like is the fact we have to dump skill points into multiple performance types. Just seems like a waste of skill points just to use class abilities that really have no impact on the validity of the character other then unlocking your next ability YAY!

Bards just need more work. Paizo has gone in the right direction but they just aren't there yet.

I'll saunter off and look at the bardic colleges thread.

So I've been lurking in this thread for some time and I'll agree with much of what's said about the bard.

Here is something I've been kicking around in my head.

I got the first Idea from the feat versatile performer and ported it over to Pathfinder:

Level 4:
One Bard Band
Number of Performance skills equal to Int Modifier get ranks equal to that of your highest performance skill.

The second idea increases the validity of the bard in higher level parties and allows bards to use up a few of those extra bardic music slots they always have left at the end of the day. Numbers can and probably need to be tweaked.

Level 10:
Ghostly Backup
As a move action you snap your fingers and summon 1d4 animated instruments that give a Inspire bonus of +1 at the expense of 2 one of your daily Bardic music slots. This increases to +2 at level 15 and +3 at level 20

And of course allow bard songs to stack except with other bard songs.