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It might be somewhat complex, but how about redesigning sacred weapon so that instead of automatically upping the damage, you can customize the weapon's statistics to an extent?

Currently your sacred weapon improves (or can improve) in damage at 1st, 5th, and then every 5 levels thereafter.

Break apart the various statistics of a weapon and you have roughly 4 areas that can be sensibly modified: Damage, critical multiplier, critical threat range, and special weapon features\damage types.

At each level, you could choose to improve your sacred weapon(s) in one of those four categories:

• Damage: Increase the damage die of the weapon by 1 type, to a maximum of 2d8 at 20th level
  
• Critical multiplier: Increase the weapon's critical multiplier by half (rounded down) to a maximum of x4 (for weapons with a 20 threat range), or x3 (for any weapons with an expanded critical threat range).
  
• Critical threat range: Increase the weapon's critical threat range by half (rounded down); this increase stacks with other increases such as from keen or Improved Critical. This cannot increase the threat range beyond 15-20 (for a x2 weapon), 17-20 (for a x3 weapon), or 18-20 (for a x4 weapon).
  
• Weapon features: Add a new weapon feature (trip, reach, sunder, etc.) to the weapon or add a type of damage dealt by the weapon (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing).

So to throw out an example, a Warpriest of Pharasma who chooses to use a dagger would almost assuredly make her first sacred weapon enhancement a damage die increase to 1d6. At 5th level, she could increase this further (to a 1d8), or alternatively she could grant her dagger the ability to deal Bashing damage or to have the Sunder quality; she could also add 1\2 to the threat range or crit range.

A Warpriest of Gorum, however, might be happy with his 2d6 of damage from his greatsword, so at 1st level he might choose instead to give it Reach, or the ability to deal piercing damage.

Personally, if this were adopted I would prefer to...

Why stop there? Why not allow a high level Pharasma Warpriest's dagger to cast undead to dead on crits vs undead or a Gorum Warpriest's greatsword to grant a rage effect on misses. Could even use Fervor to activate the effects. I think there is room for bold design here.

Golo wrote:

I also think that all war priest should be able to channel and spontaneously cast both positive and negative energy because they are warpriests they should be equally good at healing and harming foes on the battle field.

Now that I fully agree with. This would also make the class be able to play like a limited divine magus, and Fervor does not specify that the touch healing/harming is Positive/Negative energy. Also, being able to channel a cure/Inflict spell through a weapon would go a long way to solve the issue with weapons without modifying the actual weapons. A Warpriest of Pharasma would then be pretty good at fighting Undead with dagger(s) and be both useful and cool. Especially if they fix the ranged and thrown weapons issues.

This is similar to the approach I've taken when tinkering with the current version of the Warpriest, but I would take it a step further. I think it would be a mistake to try to balance favored weapons by manipulating the damage die and crit profile. I'd rather balance favored weapons by giving Warpriests of different gods different things they can do with their favored weapons. This would also help address the biggest issue I have with the class which is that as written all Warpriests, regardless of Deity, feel the same.

No Fun League wrote:

I agree the Inquisitor is the appropriate comparison and it's a good benchmark for the Warpriest. However I do think the Warpriest has a distinct action economy advantage over the Inquisitor. In terms of relative power this will translate differently at different tables but the ability to quick cast without provoking or a free hand is really strong.

It is, but I see that as a feature, not a bug. The Inquisitor is basically a Divine Bard with some extra asswhoopin' capability. He does pretty good in combat, but also shines out of it.

The Warpriest wins in combat because of his quick buffs and other things, but considering the design goal for the class is a guy whose sole purpose is to kick ass for the Lord? Not a problem IMO.

Yep. My gut reaction when you posted was to agree about the relative power level of the Inquisitor, then I waffled a bit when I thought more about the effectiveness of fervor fueled spell casting. In the end though the Inquisitor is simply a more versatile class, as it should be (imho) from a design perspective, so I feel the two classes will provide players a similar play experience in terms of "power". Which is a round about way of saying I believe the Warpriest is in a pretty good spot in terms of ass kicking at this stage of the playtest. I'd prefer to see the sacred weapon ability reworked to better reflect the flavor of individual Deities and their portfolios but that's just me on a soapbox.

You want another comparison, look at the Inquisitor, in that case.

Much worse at skills, and possibly damage dealing from the Judgement/Bane combo a number of times per day, same casting, 2 Blessings vs one Domain (something I consider to be about equal given the average power level of the Blessings), slower Initiative, more MADness, better Weapons and Armor, a few more Feats (count each Teamwork Feat as half a Feat apiece), etc.

About equal, overall.

I agree the Inquisitor is the appropriate comparison and it's a good benchmark for the Warpriest. However I do think the Warpriest has a distinct action economy advantage over the Inquisitor. In terms of relative power this will translate differently at different tables but the ability to quick cast without provoking or a free hand is really strong.

So, question for the crowd concerning Sacred Weapon and crits...

A. All sacred weapons have a standard crit range and multiplier (19-20/x2 or maybe 20/x3)?

B. Whenever a sacred weapon scores a crit, all of the additional damage is based off the original weapon damage?

C. It works as is (weapon damage scales, crit stats are drawn from the weapon, which means some will crit more often, but only for x2, others rarely but for x3)

So....

1. Which is easiest to use?
2. Which is the most balanced?
3. Which is the most fun?

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

I'm a little late to the party on this one but...

If the design goal is to incent players to use their Deity's favored weapon and to maintain parity across the range of Deity choices, normalizing weapon dice and crit range will get the job done but it feels heavy handed. I'd rather "balance" be hidden behind some level of player choice.

What if favored weapons gained unique weapon key words and abilities on a per Deity basis? The dagger of a Pharasma warpriest could gain increasingly potent abilities against undead, for example, as a player advanced in level. Balance could then be a function of the available Deity specific "tool-kit" rather than strict weapon profile.