Metamorphosis's page

I was really hoping it would be a green dragon
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Why is there an extreme push-back against calling premodern societal norms evil? The whole point of an objective morality is that some things are good or bad regardless of cultural norms, though intent might mitigate those issues. D&D and by extension Pathfinder alignment operates on the assumption that morals are objective not subjective, hence having literal creatures composed of good or evil. If you want a subjective morality play another game instead.

Take for example the Greek practice of killing unwanted children via exposure. The Egyptians found this practice horrific and would regularly mount expeditions to known places where the children were left to die (usually manure heaps) so they could be adopted. This is a situation with fairly obvious good and evil people. This was even a period when the Greek city state system was really a slave state, and the Egyptians had few if any slaves*. The Greeks would be evil 100% in Pathfinder even without going into their treatment of women. The only possible exception being Thebes

*quick sidebar Egypt at the time had no formal currency so everyone was paid in food or beer, and said payment was usually organized by the state. If you consider that serfdom then Egypt had low level slavery throughout. It is however an awkward issue because there wasn't really an alternative.

Hey Alex where did you find your information on the contrasting views of child abandonment Greek vs Egyptian ? Interesting stuff.

This is definitely one of my very favourite entries.

The Beardinator wrote:

What's this about Nocticula turning a new leaf? I knew there was a reason I liked her! Besides the obvious.

It's part of the "Continuing the Campaign" bit in Wrath of the Righteous- she's potentially looking to transition to being a Chaotic Neutral deity.

Hmm. But isn't that illustrative of an prejudice that if you look good you cannot be all bad.

I really dig the cover and want to like it after Skulls and Shackles was such fun. But many of the vessel seem like themes already a little over done. I really wish instead of Grey Corsairs, Hell Knights and Asmodeus worshipers we could have gotten creative vessels from some of the less touched regions of the inner sea.

Not angry but a little disappoint. Paizo I am sure does a good job covering the interests of its costumer base. But I was really hoping for something different its more typical fantasy adventure path. I feel that there is still so much of the world left that has not been covered without revisiting similar themes.

Sissyl wrote:

The Decepticons are Transformers too, Klaus. Seriously, you're not qualified to make arguments in this discussion. According to the IPTT, a coronal mass ejection on that scale would be one of the few things that could save us.

This line again?

Look, germany, fifth largest GDP in the world, supplies 20% of its base load, through variable renewable micro-generation, with a massive potential for growth, and is heading for more. Their economy has not suffered.

I'd love to see a quote from the IPCC calling for a zero growth economy.

I would too or even selective reverse of some growth over time.

What I find most disturbing is that fleshgrinder sees everything as externalities in his pursuit of utopian godhood. You do realize you are just one species of animal which is waging the most destructive genocidal war ever on every other species of life on its home word?
It is not a good time to be any other creature but a human being.

Fleshgrinder wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

Science certainly makes things easier, I'll grant you that. But smarter? By default? I've seen no evidence of that.

I don't believe I said smarter or more intelligent, I believe I said that cultures not outputting science are effectively worthless to mankind, which I stand by.

Take this culture, for example. Imagine it is wiped off the face of the Earth tomorrow. Does anything change for any non-member of that culture?

I don't think it does. Our world continues on much the same.

Now take any high-science producing culture and remove them.

That hurts humankind. We lose the imagination of an entire educated society. We lose possible cures, technologies, or even literature and art.

I'm sorry this is about as parochial, biased, and simplistic a comparison we could get. If the First World were to vanish tomorrow we'd also lose the bulk of the resource drains and pollution generators on this planet. We'd probably also lose the bulk contributors to C02 build up and potential climate change whose heaviest impact will most likely be on third world countries. We also would have lost the cultures that for the first time developed weapons that could end us as a species.

Our presence on this planet is not an unmixed blessing.

Well put

Gnomes rule!

Metamorphosis wrote:

ciretose wrote:

Metamorphosis wrote:

Very off topic. While I differ on many opinions of DD he is right that there are societies that have no government in in the context which Scott Betts and Ciretose refer to. An Individual or class of individuals using force to cause compliance.

In my observations government less societies are either one of two types. Collectivist whom exclude individuals whom persist in authoritative behaviours or anarchists whom disband around such a social disruptive individual to coalesce elsewhere.

Citation please?

Well as DD said essentially any band society had no leader with more then consensual authority. So there were at least hundreds at one time. For example most subartic and artic natives of my country. A couple peoples whom immediately spring to mind would be the semai, and paliyans.

From wikipedia

"Disputes in the Semai community are resolved by holding a becharaa, or public assembly, at the headman's house. This assembly may last for days and involves thorough discussion of the causes, motivations and resolution of the dispute by disputants and the whole community, ending with the headman charging either or both of the disputants not to repeat their behavior lest it endanger the community. The Semai have a saying that "there are more reasons to fear a dispute than a tiger."

Sounds like a government to me.

I never said that they didn’t have respected individuals, what I did say is that no one individual or class of individuals had the ability to force non consequential decisions on someone. Can you really claim to understand them in two seconds of google fu that it took to find something that seemed to support your hypothesis. Unfortunate this is exactly the reason I was reluctant to comment.

Metamorphosis wrote:

Very off topic. While I differ on many opinions of DD he is right that there are societies that have no government in in the context which Scott Betts and Ciretose refer to. An Individual or class of individuals using force to cause compliance.

In my observations government less societies are either one of two types. Collectivist whom exclude individuals whom persist in authoritative behaviours or anarchists whom disband around such a social disruptive individual to coalesce elsewhere.

Citation please?

Well as DD said essentially any band society had no leader with more then consensual authority. So there were at least hundreds at one time. For example most subartic and artic natives of my country. A couple peoples whom immediately spring to mind would be the semai, and paliyans.

But I do think this is getting way off topic because whether health care is paid by the government or insurgence companies both in effect are very much exerting governance over our person.

Very off topic. While I differ on many opinions of DD he is right that there are societies that have no government in in the context which Scott Betts and Ciretose refer to. An Individual or class of individuals using force to cause compliance.
In my observations government less societies are either one of two types. Collectivist whom exclude individuals whom persist in authoritative behaviours or anarchists whom disband around such a social disruptive individual to coalesce elsewhere.

Finn Kveldulfr wrote:

However, although we do have our share of bad apples in the ranks too (any military does), I am defending the conduct of the U.S. Military at war, because we (in the military) really have tried to conduct ourselves in warfare properly, and have mostly done a pretty good job at it.

I want to point out no other military in history has had as long a period of continuous engagement as the USA military has recently and had as few civilian causalities, military causalities, or incidents. Our armed forces have done an amazing job time and time again, generally with little real support from their country, meager resources for what they are doing, and so much uncertainty on how their efforts were going to end.

If anything is to be a real credit to what we are as a nation it is the armed forces and their continued efforts and behavior.

I hope if is just a simply over sight or maybe you don't consider it recent, but 11.1% of the total population of north korea killed in the korean war, 3 million dead north vietnamese and the undetermined number (over 1 million) of dead iraqis of 2 wars, sanctions and radioactive waste are not a small or acceptable number.

Imaginitive work, I would have voted for both had you been contestants.

Smarnil le couard wrote:

Don't you think that that USA has somewhat "lost its soul" by allowing torture and detainment without due process ? It seems that everyone in the world, except your former government, knows that waterboarding IS torture. Historically, to come back to the thread topic, it was a favorite of the Gestapo.

No I do not believe America has lost its soul. I believe that those who have declared war on America are subject to detainment, interogation and torture, especially if they have valuable information that they are withholding that would save lives. Those scum use our laws, and freedoms against us.

The fact you said "Your government" is so chilling. The only explanation is that liberalism is a mental disorder.

I would suggest watching: Taxi to the dark side. It is very enlightening viewing on who is collected, the value of the individuals collected and how they are handled.

Also it my impression that psionic advocates aren't beholden to power points. But what they don't want is to be just another type of sorcerer. I know myself if it was done as variety of at will spell like abilities of a weaker nature then the equivalent spell caster could I would fine. Or into a well made ki point caster who’s powers weren't tried to slots but gained as the character advanced levels for example.

Psionics is as medieval and fantasy as swords or dragons. But why it doesn't seem so is the historical oddity of Europe being under the control of a monotheistic religion which didn't allow for alternative belief systems. Essentially psionics are how people who have monist elements to there belief systems explain the occurrence of controllable supernatural happenstances.
Sufism, Yogis, Gnostic Christians, Buddhist all fit well with in the psionic realm.
As far as adapting psionic to be a variety sorcerer that just seems to be cruel. Those who use psionics have always had there own system, which in itself expresses psionics better then to the vancian system. To others less concerned about flavour it provides opportunity to play a non vancian caster.
I can understand psionics not being everyone’s variety of fun. But it is my variety. And has just as much place as Rakshasas, ninjas, splint mail, wish spells. All of which are non european but have found an unquestioned home in the game.

I would suggest that the easiness or difficulty of any given encounter has a lot to do with DMs and their playing style. Some brutally adhere to the rules and die rolls. Some DMs are tactically wizards who have maximized every detail of an encounter.
While others focus their expertise on other other elements of the game. Are willing to fudge things from time to time to let the game play out as they might have envisioned.
So while the module may have the same title, it might play out very dissimilar. Maybe it is a case of the DM and PCs anticipating very different play styles from each other?

I would enjoy a Tian Xia adventure path too. Especially if said campaign helped develop the the non japan/china like parts of the continent.

It is best not think in terms of alignment but of the interactions in our own daily lives or people we know who have close relationships with people of different morals. The key is for the characters to entwine their histories.
Maybe the evil individual is a younger cousin of one character who feel duty bound to protect their young relative and introduce to the perils and glory of adventuring.
Or maybe the a Character and the evil Character are old friends. They use to travel together in a more innocent time until divergent fortunes took them in opposite directions. While for one doors opened like clock work (inherited their father's master work long sword, the family name held in high regard for some service to the community) the evil character needed to fight to survive (bonfire leaves him/her orphaned and destitute. Mistaken for a wanted individual, there pleas of innocence falling on deaf ears and incarcerated wrongly) which resulted in there new harder out look on life. The Good friend remembers there past together and is will to excuse much of there current grimness sympathetic to what they have endured.

Second edition has a very warm spot in my heart. Not only was it the first gaming system which I gamed under but it suited my style of DMing as well. Being able to work just for a bare bones outline and flesh it out as the pcs delved in.
It also seemed to be gifted with the best campaign settings. Al Qadim, Planescape, Dark Sun...

The Democratic Party in the United States today is, at its most radical, a centrist party as far as the rest of the world's concerned. So please, do not tell me that leftist extremists are corrupting the political dialogue in our country today. That is simply impossible, because there is no American left worth speaking about.

That mirrors my feelings as a non American listening to the political discourse coming from the states. The political landscape there seem so incredibly narrow, and focused at the right side of the spectrum. Actually leftists views being akin to hearsay in the contemporary political arena.

What disappoints me isn't Damiel's race but that he is the cliche; Oh he is CN and therefore must be insane. His Back story seems to be tailored to his alignment rather then vice versa.
IMO he is the most disappointing iconic to date and one who brings with him adverse consequences ripe for disruptive players to exploit.

Oh well still three more iconics on their way :)

I am heavily tempted not to interject because I am never going to alter any ones long held convictions. Yahoo futility!

Part of the reason why alignment is such a messy topic to discuss is that it is dimension extend far beyond the game. Good and evil are something we all experience and observe and have a concept related as to how we live our lives. Most people tend to believe themselves good. Instead of reflection on our behaviours and connecting with the perspective of the individuals they have harmed (whether the 60 carnival goers, the hijacked plane passengers, the inhabitants of Hiroshima etc) the create an elaborate web work of rationalizations to cut those they have harmed or call the enemy from the rest of humanity where it becomes justifiable to do "necessary" evils as several of the comments have pointed out.

What people making such judgements don't realize is that is the same sort of logic which the BBG/terrorist/conquerors themselves us.

For example if it was Imperial japan dropping an atomic bomb on Los Angeles, New York or else where to avoid a costly land invasion would not Xpltvdeleted angurment not hold water for them as well? Or for that matter terriorist blowing themselves up along with passers by to kill their military opponent, as there opponent placed themselves admidst throng.