Not a Lich's page

Necroing this post but it seems like the appropriate place to ask, this build does not seem playable as it can trivialize anything not directly immune to fear, which surprisingly a lot of things aren't.

Edit: Never mind, reading comprehension failure about the Gendarme Cavalier type.

Not a Lich wrote:

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:

This thread makes me sad. Why is it bad to want to be a good guy? (I understand he's bringing in the Paladin to a pre-existing party and if he's aware it's an evil party that's on him.) I just don't see why wanting your fellow "heroes" to be good is bad but a LE rogue stealing from party members is "acting in character."

There is nothing wrong with being the good guy, but he belongs in parties where good guys fit. This is not one of them.

Agreed. And I said as much. There is nothing wrong playing evil characters or having an evil party. I was reacting more to the Paladin hate some other posters had thrown up. Still, if you don't think it would cause trouble then why hide it from the Players (I understand keeping it from their characters)? If you know it's gonna cause trouble then what is your goal? Does your table like PvP or do you not think it will come to that? Again, I don't know your table or the players or their characters. All I know is you want to hide it from the People with whom you are playing a game.

Oh no, I know it wouldn't cause trouble to tell the players, I'm hiding it from them for surprise/wow factor when I suddenly spring it on them. The only reason I'm hiding it from them is because I know it won't cause trouble from the player perspective. Hiding it from the character perspective is the only true cause of concern, especially since paladins have a whole bunch of pesky tools for dealing with the undead.

This thread makes me sad. Why is it bad to want to be a good guy? (I understand he's bringing in the Paladin to a pre-existing party and if he's aware it's an evil party that's on him.) I just don't see why wanting your fellow "heroes" to be good is bad but a LE rogue stealing from party members is "acting in character."

There is nothing wrong with being the good guy, but he belongs in parties where good guys fit. This is not one of them.

Not a Lich wrote:

Lord Foul II wrote:

I just want to note, I fundamantally disagree with this, but there are differences in play styles

I fundamentally disagree with playing characters whose "feature" is to impose their views on others in a game where cooperation is the name of the game. If it was a game that pvp was a an acceptable and common occurrence it would not be so bad because I would just scythe that player in their sleep but it's not.

I reign in my slaughter of the innocents, destruction of property and wholesale wanton villainy because the whole party is not okay with it and I get that. But to restrict my choice from my favourite style of class to play (reanimator) and prevent me from doing possibly the most awesome evil thing in pathfinder (becoming a lich)? Those people can bite me.

I would be all on yourside with this, if you did not start a thread saying, "How do I keep my group from noticing I am spending all my gold and feats on becoming a lich and not to help the party?"

Not sure what the make up of your party is, so I am not sure to what extent you are actually doing this, but it does seem like you are just as guilty of "features" that impose on others instead of cooperation.

What a horrible viewpoint. With this line of thinking, everyone who is not playing a fully optimized character is "at fault" when the party fails. Get out.

Fabricate cannot make magical items.

i'd say make sure the other party members (not just the paladin, but he's a main factor) are cool with you taking such a dark road. Because having the whole campaign grind to a halt because one guy had to be all dark and edgy is just a bit of a pain in the neck.

also, it would be fairly easy to split form the party and embark on your phylactery ritual somewhere dark and safe (like orchestrate getting a letter from a "relative" on their deathbed calling you away, it gives you a viable reason to leave the party and the paladin can't question it--even evil people can love their family).

you should have a secret base somewhere already, since you're obviously setting yourself up as the BBEG and end the campaign with everyone either hating your guts and not inviting you back or loving it and it rounding off that storyline for you all to play new characters and your necromancer now being the evil overlord of the world (making all that effort to become a lich completely useless since you cant play it).

also, do you have plans for after you become a lich (world domination?), or are you just aiming for it for the novelty of it.

You mean you don't play Pathfinder with the ultimate goal of world domination on every character?

Not a Lich wrote:

Is reanimating family members as zombies and cross dressing them too much? Yes? No?

Depends. Yours or his? :-D

Why just choose one? Reanimate them all, have a german sparkle party.

Would it work if the player knew, and the character did not?

You might actually have to, you know, role-play. But why can't you all tell a story together?

It would, and it would also be easier with party cooperation but it's much more fun to the GM and myself actually surprise the party with it. Surprise twist! and all that.

Mykull wrote:

I'd talk to the player OoC, but I would not put all your cards on the table. Just ask him, "You knew I was animating dead when you chose to be a paladin: Were you planning on their being a confrontation?" See what he says and go from there. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU REVEAL YOUR PURSUIT OF LICHDOM!

+1

If this plan devolves into campaign ending conflict, it's much better to take everyone but surprise to ensure maximum destruction. After all, what better way to teach the player not to bring a Pally into a campaign that you're playing in than bring the whole thing to a crushing end. I mean, it's not like you could have voiced any concerns when he was making his new character.

/sarcasm

Seriously, though, don't be a dick. I shouldn't have to enumerate a list of dick moves for you, you should know them already.

He surprised the party with the paladin. I did not know until the GM had informed me, and the GM thought it would be hilarious to get some "party dynamic" into the game as he liked to call it. The GM is very lax on alignment, so the paladin will very likely never fall working with me unless he puts his pointy stick into an innocent, in which case he would just fall hard enough to go antipaladin and has already touched on that scenario too.

Edit: Is reanimating family members as zombies and cross dressing them too much? Yes? No?

Magic Items

( 1 ) Until you actually need the phylactery adorn yourself with jewelry.
( 2 ) Pay a wizard to cast Magic Aura on the jewelry (11th level caster X 1st level spell X 10 = 110 gp per item)
( 3 ) Pay that wizard to cast permanency on the auras (660 gp per item).

Issues:
( A ) Magic Aura isn't on Permanency's list of acceptable targets. I think it used to be (or maybe that was just an old house rule). Anyway, ask the DM, maybe she/he/it will be okay with that.
( B ) It still costs you 770 gp per item. But it should fool a cursory detect magic that you're equipped with the "appropriate" amount of magical gear at far less than the 'real' items would actually cost.

The Paladin Issue
If this was at the beginning of the campaign, I'd side with Ooga. But as the paladin was playing a rogue and knew you were animating undead, he's made his own tough.

I'd talk to the player OoC, but I would not put all your cards on the table. Just ask him, "You knew I was animating dead when you chose to be a paladin: Were you planning on their being a confrontation?" See what he says and go from there. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU REVEAL YOUR PURSUIT OF LICHDOM!

We already came to an understanding with the animating the dead, he knew I was doing it and won't have an issue with it, and has a backstory to match. However he has stated killing the innocents is a no-no and I obviously can't tell him I'm becoming a lich (that's a surprise that the GM and I wanted to drop on the party later) so my hands are tied there.

You are spreading yourself too thin, the only cleric build that should ever think about healing (translation: wasting time) is the support cleric build. With a bow you need too many other stats to be wasting them on cha and wasting feats on channeling ones. You also lack the proficiency to use a longbow, pick a deity with longbow or choose to be an elf. I would take the second option myself.

Race: Elf
Deity: Desna
Domains: Liberation, Travel

Str: 15
Dex: 17
Con: 13
INT: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 7

Adjusted with elf racials:

Str: 15
Dex: 19
Con: 11
INT: 9
Wis: 14
Cha: 7

You can swap the stats around to taste, but I would highly recommend not getting cha for channeling as an archer cleric, you have other things you could be not wasting your time with. Healing is for outside of battle, and that's what a CLW wand or wand of infernal healing is for. The only heals you should be casting in battle are breath of life to bring someone back from the dead without paying resurrection costs.

Wis 14 gives you enough wisdom to be able to cast up to level 4 spells without any items, you only need a +2 headband to cast up to level 6 which is probably the maximum you'll see. You don't need to worry about boosting wis further because you are not playing a bad touch (save or suck) cleric, you are playing an archer so your DCs do not need to be high and you don't need more bonus spells from wisdom. Your offense is your bow, your spells are for making your big dumb fighter a bigger dumb fighter, who hits harder, moves faster, gets another attack per round, can fly, etc. Make your party better, and then plink away with your bow. The domain choices are to keep you mobile, which is quite important as an archer cleric, freedom of movement as a supernatural ability is golden, and freedom as an aura to give to your party in times of need is priceless. Dimensional step from travel is nice too, as well as the +10 movement that stacks with everything.

Your weapon should be a composite longbow with a +2 strength mod until level 4 in which you should put a point into strength and make it +3 mod, so you can add that much strength to your attack rolls.

Read this for more information: Tark's Cleric Guide. Commandment One is the most important thing you should take out of the guide, read it, live it.

I just want to note, I fundamantally disagree with this, but there are differences in play styles

I fundamentally disagree with playing characters whose "feature" is to impose their views on others in a game where cooperation is the name of the game. If it was a game that pvp was a an acceptable and common occurrence it would not be so bad because I would just scythe that player in their sleep but it's not.

I reign in my slaughter of the innocents, destruction of property and wholesale wanton villainy because the whole party is not okay with it and I get that. But to restrict my choice from my favourite style of class to play (reanimator) and prevent me from doing possibly the most awesome evil thing in pathfinder (becoming a lich)? Those people can bite me.

Craft wondrous will help if only so that you can make the headband, hat of disguise, and cloak of resistance at a cheaper price, and since your already evil you could charge the PC's full price for any wondrous items they want on the side, just tell them yours are better than the ones in that OTHER store. You know, the one that was conveniently burned down the other night?

If things get really really bad, you could always kidnap the paladin and summon a pit fiend... I hear those guys pay big money for paladins. ;)

The wizard has craft wondrous already, he created my +2 headband for me as well, and I will have craft wondrous too, as it is a requirement of making a phylactery. For our specific ritual I also require brew potion and leadership, my character is sacrificing feats and gold for this.

I like the idea of offering him to a pit fiend, perhaps as a last resort.

I just want to interject and say that this is often a really s@+&ty thing to do to the other player who is a paladin, so you want to be very sure that he is OK with it. The problem is that you are doing something that puts his character in a position to where he basically has to PVP you or leave the party, which may be unfun for that player. What if through your own carelessness, he finds our your a murderous fiend and trying to become...

Perhaps I should have added the point that this player was playing a rogue, and didn't like it so he rerolled paladin into the existing group when I was using animate dead in full swing already. He is the one at fault, not me.

A tower shield.

I'm serious. As a standard action you can place the tower shield to provide full cover against ranged attacks, if you need to cast a spell, drop the shield as a move action and then cast your spell. Pick it up after. For the very minor cost of the tower shield you have near immunity to your biggest threat, archers. Melee will be dealt with by your party members (hopefully) and a tower shield will go a long way to making not look like a wizard. Also explicitly mention that you are not wearing wizard robes, and keep a sword at your hip. As long as your GM isn't a metagaming dick he will choose other targets that don't look as weak and unassuming as yours.

For early to mid game, the best way to make your wizard survivable in my opinion is animate dead. Lots of meatshields at your command with no limit. Summoning works too, but I like animation for its always there capability. Animating costs onyx yes, but it's not that much I wouldn't fret over it. Heck, lesser animate dead is free, and you get it earlier. So start making skeletons!

Edit: And seriously don't be that wizard that blasts, you're just embarrassing the rest of us. Leave the damage to the barbarian who can do significantly more than you can per round with his pointy stick. Blasting is not really the realm of casters, it's not effective, no matter how much people try to say it is. The damage is not enough. You are much better off using something tactical, like grease, or black tentacles (overpowered), or summoning a monsters to lay the beat down for you. A combination of them is best, just don't cast fireball unless it's to kill a bunch of villagers. Then it's okay, it's always acceptable to blast innocent civilians, even encouraged.

I'm currently playing an Oracle who animates the dead. Once I get to around 14th level, I will be making the transformation to lich. I have something planned out with the GM for the transformation, but it's expensive. Standard 120,000gp cost for the phylactery, along with some other specific requirements. I am a human juju oracle, main focus is on animating the dead and letting them do most of my dirty work. Stat allocation is 10/10/10/14/12/17 for anyone who cares.

Any suggestions on how to survive the campaign with little to no magical items? Almost all of my wealth will be going into the phylactery, and I am loath to ask the GM for some sort of assistance in the matter since I'm making these sacrifices to become a lich, if I got compensation for choosing this path it would be meaningless. The only item I'd probably have is a +4 headband and perhaps a cloak of resistance.

Not only suggestions on how to survive, but how do I dissuade party suspicion from lack of magical items? The most amusing part is we have a paladin of Torag in the party. Hiding my journey to lichdom and subsequently hiding the fact that I'm a lich from him would probably be paramount to my survival. He knows I'm evil and grudgingly works with me, but does not abide killing innocents so I try to keep murder and mayhem to a minimum or out of sight. Unless he has no ranks in knowledge religion at all the paladin will know that I had to slay innocents and do other unspeakable acts of evil to become a lich, hiding this is important as I don't want it to escalate into pvp.

I played a standard cleric as an archer and it worked extremely well.

Your channeling will be atrocious yes, but you shouldn't be basing your cleric around channeling unless it's to control the dead anyway.

You are not a bandaid. Repeat that 500 times before playing a cleric, or better yet, choose to channel negative energy and not have to deal with the problem at all.

Guided hand can work (or better to use a guided longbow if your GM allows it, guided is kind of cheesy) since while you still need dex yes, you no longer need as much of it because it's only for feat prereqs. Contrast having to boost both dex and strength going the standard route for archer because of that +X composite longbow bonus using strength. With guided hand you can boost your wis as high as possible, leave dex at the bare mininmum for feats and completely ignore strength.

As an archer cleric, your main purpose is to support your party with buffs and then plink away with your bow, depending on if you already have a party face I would dump cha, channeling is overrated. Healers have no place in proper encounters, the damage output is well beyond all but the most ridiculous of healing builds in which you could have done something more useful to end the fights faster instead.

You are not a bandaid, don't heal in combat unless it's breath of life to get a dead party member back up or they are really critical. Dead enemies do no damage, making things deaderer > healing.

Edit: Tark's Cleric Guide

Read this, it's a great guide on how to make different types of clerics, including the archer cleric. Make sure you read Rule One thoroughly.

Edit: Obviously fail at making urls.