Malthus Krieger's page

I get what you are saying, but I am still interested in is the general comparison between the two fictional universes. I know that trying to compare the numbers and the systems isn't going to get conclusive results, but I am still interested in the views/estimations of fans of both universes.

(Oh and by the way, the falling from near orbit rules are not that much out of the way of possibility. There are several accounts of people jumping out of planes, their parachutes not opening and they still survied. But please don't let this thread slip into that kind of discussion. :) )

What I would like to ask is more of a general opinion of people comparing the two situational universes in that specific situation; ergo one person or a group of persons of level 15 to 20 in the Warhammer 40K universe.

But still thanks for your reply. I know that it is quite hard to compare inherently different universes like that, but I still enjoy that kind of virtual exercise.

Hello everyone!

I was thinking about an interesting thought experiment:
How would a group of Pathfinder Characters be able to survive (or maybe even prosper?) in the universe of Warhammer 40K?

I have read threads about the opposite of that (what kind of characters would W40K persons be in PF and such), but this way around seems quite interesting to me.

As people familiar with the Warhammer 40K universe know: It is basically a grim dark SciFi universe on massive steroids. The standard point of comparison with such thought experiments would be the Space Marine. Which is a MASSIVELY genetically enhanced superhuman capable of crushing skulls with one hand and a fighting capability that far exceeds anything normal humans are capable of doing by a longshot. Plus most likely at least several decades and most likely centuries of experience. And that is BEFORE they get clad in their power armor.

Correct me, if I am wrong, but I would sort a regular Space Marine along the lines of a lvl 12 to 15 human fighter (at the very least). As I gathered from several threads over the last years from different discussions and forums, the peak of "normal" human potential lies about lvl 5 to 6, so lvl 12 to 15 seems quite adequate to me for a regular Space Marine.

Long story short, my question is: How would a single PF character (more or less high end, lvl 15 to 20) fare in the universe of Warhammer 40K?

How would a group of such cahracters fare?

Would they have some chance of making some minor difference in the grim dark future of the 41st millenium? Or would they be wiped out near instanteneously?

Looking forward to an interesting exchange.

Hello everybody,

first of all: I have no idea, if I put that in the right forum, so if necessary, please put it where it should belong.

To the topic:
I LOVE the type of high fantasy DnD and Pathfinder represents. I grew up with the books of Salvatore and the like and read them approximately a million times. The cosmology and some of the ecology (maybe?) is my absolute ideal for a fantasy setting.

That said, how problematic is it - from a legal point of view, as well as from a "cheapness" point of view - if I decided to use parts of that cosmology and principles in a world for a novel of my own making?

Stuff that concerns me, for example:
The dragons. I love the concept of chromatic and metallic dragons with respect to Good and Evil.

The planes. Plane of fire, earth, shadow, etc; the nine hells (don't have to be nine ;) ) the abyss and such.

Some of the races used, especially the half-races. Is Tiefling a universal thing in fiction? Or is that pretty DnD/PF specific? Same with other half-breeds, like Aasimars, Planetouched and the like.

Also the type of magic, with the spells and such. Sure thing, a Fireball is probably one of THE most universal things. A Grasping Hand... less so.

My concern is, I don't want my world to feel like a cheap rip-off, but i really love the feeling of the DnD/PF universe.

Am I overthinking this? Or would it even have legal consequences if I have a character with Red Dragon ancestry or a Tiefling show up in my book or something along those lines? Should I just rename those "races"?

Input would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Malthus

@RickDias:
Very true. Also I am not a fan of putting all my money on one trick... I like to keep a variety of viable options open and experiment a little with different moves. Strangely we haven't had an encounter with undead yet (I think this is my first character to go up to lvl 5 without ever encountering undead), but I plan on adding Chill Touch to my spell list. Frigid touch I have already, but right now I need my lvl 2 spell slots for survivability and spell recall with lvl 2 slots is too expensive for me.
I like the thought of having lots of Spellstrike channeling options, like a toolbox with the right stuff always at hand.

@taks:
That's what I thought, too. I figured, I'd get more mileage out of INT and it fits the type of character I want to play better. Skills, arcane pool, concentration, more spells, stronger spell DCs... Yeah I think I'll stick with a focus on INT. :)

Any recommendations for useful touch spells? Maybe from the wizard spell list, too. (Spell Blending Arcana)

I was eyeballing the lvl 1 wizard spell Touch of Blindness. But I am open to suggestions, I like to expand my spellstriking toolbox. Damage, debuffs, CC... the more variety, the better.

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. :)

--Malthus

The blasty-type does sound like an interesting concept, but we have a trigger-happy arcanist for that. Also it doesn't fit the type of person my character is.

Your last sentence "the more wizardly type of magus" hits exactly what I imagine him to be. He was taught his art at a wizards academy... but was equally interested in training with the martial academy teachers next door. On "finals" day he beat the crap out of his opponent with his quarterstaff instead of relying on spells... which caused kind of an outrage among the teachers and he decided to leave those close-minded fools for good.

A little "jack of all trades" type is what I have in mind ("Wait, I have a spell for that!"), with lots of different spells prepared and recalling the ones i use more frequently via my arcane pool.
I also plan to take the spell scar arcana at lvl 6. I love the fluff and it looks to add even more versatility to my character.

The first levels I had no problems holding myself in melee - although I ate dirt quite often, but that comes with being a glass cannon i suppose. (and somehow the DM's dice hate me... i got critted to near-death several times by goblins... GOBLINS!) And since level 4 I had no more problems with squishiness; shield and mirror image helped my survivability tremendously.

I use frostbite more often than shocking grasp, because when I start to focus, things die pretty quickly and i tend to almost outshine the other players. So I only use the BAM for the big ones or when we are in trouble.

I magical lineaged the everloving crap out of shocking grasp, too... an empowered shocking grasp is a lvl 1 spell for me. Yes, i know "munchkin", "min-maxing" and all that, but hey: That is my first roleplaying character since... eight years I believe? So I wanted to have a little fun with him. :)

--Malthus

On a somewhat related note:

How viable is a Magus focusing on INT?

I play a blackblade magus in a home game, we are currently at lvl 5 and were rolling our stats at creation. I got really lucky and ended up with a beast:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 10
CH 6

I am planning on putting everything i get ability-wise in INT. I was really struggling to decide between going STR or going INT but INT seems somewhat more interesting to me, as my damage is already impressive and i can work on some more via strength-enhancing items.

Any experiences with an INT-focused magus?

--Malthus

@Matthew Downie:

That... is actually a really good idea!
A miniature library sounds like just the thing we would need, thinking that 3 of our 6 people are prepared arcane casters in some way! And our druid is looking for books on healing everywhere we go, so that makes 4/6 people. Great idea, thanks!
The inn I thought about already as well, but I figured there were some other buildings we'd need more than that.

We are now at two small wooden buildings inside the fort, an armory/storehouse and a small infirmary (Druid: "No, I can NOT properly treat people in a dirty tent!"... well, he's got a point). On top of those are small watchtowers, accessible from inside those buildings as well as outside via a ladder.

And the escape tunnel sounds neat!

We will most likely be staying in the River Kingdoms for a long while and I really enjoy the thought of building our own "stronghold". I really loved that concept in Baldurs Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2 (among others) and I always wanted to have an aspect like that in an actual roleplaying group. :)

@roguerogue:
The port is not an option, as the river is not exactly a river, but more like a small stream, maybe 2 or 3 meters wide (tops). But the garden is a lovely idea as well, our druid is going to love this! And some of our mercenaries too; it was our (the players') job to create the mercenaries beforehand without knowing what we'd need them for and I made two with a background as farmer. :)

Thanks again everybody for the nice input! That is exactly the reason, why I decided to join this forum... so many helpful people and nice ideas I simply wouldn't have thought of. :)

--Malthus

Thanks everybody for the helpful replies! You gave me some great input on how to improve our standing in the region and how to do our job better.

So first thing will probably be: we need more mercenaries... with just the ~15 we got, safely patrolling the roads will be next to impossible. Next in line are the horses and stuff like signal arrows and such.

But top of the list are the tons of ale and the performer Thunderlord and Jackson mentioned... gotta keep morale high!

Thanks for the quick answers already!

@John Napier:
We already plan to expand the camp into a more fort-like thing and replacing the tents and such with actual wooden or stone buildings. But thanks for the list of stuff we'd realistically need!

@Saldiven:
A well is really not a bad idea... though if we really were to be under siege, then that small wooden palisade wouldn't stand against anything. ^^
Still something useful to consider, thanks!

Our group contains (we are all level 5):
- an elvish rogue/wizard (she became the leader of the mercenary company and is a little upset about it - "What am I supposed to to with a small army? I want to sneak!")
- a half-elf knight (she SHOULD have become the leader, but kind of... embarassed herself during the fight)
- a half-elf magus (me, i am second-in-command and am most often training the mercenaries)
- an elvish arcanist (she loves alchemy-stuff)
- a human druid (he is already befriending the local animal populace and telling them that we might need some trees)
- a half-orc barbarian (he mostly screams and glares at people)

So we have most of the spell lists covered and i am collecting spells like a madman and giving them to the rogue/wizard and the arcanist, so we have them all in our spellbooks.

--Malthus

Hello everyone!

In our current home campaign we took over the base camp of a small mercenary company - no, not by force, their commander died and one of us became the new one - and now we are thinking about stuff we definitely need to fortify it and give us other benefits.

Our main job by leading that mercenary group is to keep the roads and trading routes in a small part of the River Kingdoms safe.

It is a rather small camp with a palisade wall around it. There is a small river next to it and it is in close distance to a rather large city (Daggermark). We already built a watchtower and dug up a small trench around the palisade wall.

We have 2000 Gold to spend for stuff we need in there. We already have some basics like tents, a forge, one or two wagons, some horses and such stuff. I am looking for interesting and useful stuff/tools/whatever that could help a small, just starting-out mercenary company.

We already thought about buying a ballista and mounting it on top of the watchtower. The mercenaries themselves are geared out and we already "acquired" some "voluntary donations" of further gear (armor, weapons) through the generosity of some bandits that troubled the region.
Other stuff I thought about getting were:

- an alchemists laboratory (for one of our PCs and for general use)
- a stash of alchemists fire and similar stuff (flexibility against certain enemies)
- some sets of manacles and chains (hey, we ARE responsible for the security of the region)
- first aid kits
- some emergency healing potions (small ones)
- camouflage nets (for smaller outposts at certain points of interest along the roads)

I am eager to hear other suggestions, maybe by some people who were in a similar situation.

What stuff did you need? What did you realize was invaluable or extremely useful?
What was in hindsight a bad investment?

Plus:
What kind of spells are useful in a situation like that? (useful for fortifications, for sustaining a group of mercenaries, for keeping an eye on the region, etc)

Thanks in advance for your help!

--Malthus

@Sissyl

Which is not unlikely to be a cause of lots of suicides in prison.

In Germany it is even legal to try and break out of prison. The act of breaking out is not forbidden, though if you happen to break other laws on your way out you will get sentenced for them. (robbery, assault, whatever)

The reasoning is, that the desire for freedom is a basic human instinct and one that should not be punished or repressed, I believe.

@Yakman

That is simply not true. As others in this thread already pointed out, there are even factions, prestige classes, etc for good Drow/ Drow on their way to redemption in Golarion Canon.

In Faerûn you even have a whole goddes that just has the focus of "good Drow/ Drow being redempted" and groups of good Drow living in the light. "Eilistraee" if the description doesn't ring any bells. She even pops up in several Faerun books with groups of good Drow and all that. (War of the Spiderqueen or somesuch if I am not mistaken)

What I gathered from reading this thread:

Yes, a good Drow might be a cliché at first sight - for most people that is. But in my opinion that "fault" lies by the people for their narrow-mindedness. If you let your prejudices interfere while meeting a character/player than that is... pretty sad actually.

Sure, if s/he comes along as a "Hey I have this awesome character who is a dual-wielding drow fighter/ranger, and totally not evil!" then yes, that is an obvious rip-off and not very creative as a concept.

But if it is an actually interesting, detailed and clever character idea, then just dismissing it as a "Drizzt-rip-off" because of your own prejudices is just pretty bad style.

Just my two coppers.

--Malthus

PS: Big Drizzt fan here, read about a bazillion books and most of them more than once. That dude was kind of an inspiration as a personality and always an awesome read. Even made a dual wielding character after that, because i really liked the description of the fighting style (no he wasn't some kind of outcast from an evil society).

Yes I was eyeballing the Step up and Strike feat, too. But in the Step Up feat it says:

Benefit: Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability.

Which seems not that useful to a fighter focusing on reach weapons.

But in the description of Following Step it says:

Benefit: When using the Step Up feat to follow an adjacent foe, you may move up to 10 feet. You may still take a 5-foot step during your next turn, and any movement you make using this feat does not subtract any distance from your movement during your next turn.

It doesn't say anything about the need to end that movement next to the enemey I am chasing. Or is that included in the part "When using the Step Up feat to follow an adjacent foe"?

Finally in the description of Step up and Strike it says:

Benefit: When using the Step Up or Following Step feats to follow an adjacent foe, you may also make a single melee attack against that foe at your highest base attack bonus.

Would that mean, that I could let them step away, hit them square in the face with my reach weapon and THEN follow them?

But even if if works like that, 3 feats to pull that off seems like a steep investment and I could still only really benefit from that if I was standing adjacent to them, which I wouldn't normally do, as I am focusing on a weapon with reach.

In that context, the Disruptive and Spellbreaker combo seems more worthwile to me, as I am threatening a larger area - even though that only works against casters.

Lots of great input here, thanks everyone for that!

Another quick question for the more experienced players here:
Are the Disruptive and Spellbreaker feats worth it?

I am playing a magus in a home game and it seems to me that it is quite easy to cast defensively, but as a magus I am a little more specialized towards that.

Is the +4 for the DC of the check worth the feat? And the possibility of an AoO for a failure with the second feat?

And another one, just to make sure I am getting that right:
I can take the Advanced Weapon Training options only starting at lvl 9. So it would not be possible to get Armed Bravery earlier?

Also I checked the Step Up feat chain and it says, I could only use that with foes adjacent to me. So I guess it doesn't make sense to take it with a fighter that wants to focus on reach weapons. Am I reading that correctly?

Sword and Board was my first thought for a fighter, but I decided for a two handed build instead, because I like the concept of reach weapons and their possibilities.

But Furious Attack looks promising! Though I am not sure if it works with the build you suggested:

Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional attacks, including attacks of opportunity.

To me that sounds like you can't use it with a one handed weapon and a shield. But it would be a viable choice for the two handed fighter I have in mind.

Wow, didn't expect such a heated discussion; I couldn't come online to check back with your answers the last two days, sorry for that.

@Slim Jim:
I am not going to argue, that your build is better, because it simply IS better mechanically. But it would be a completely different character than I have in mind. That would be like "I want to play a rogue" - "Play unchained monk/ninja/fighter/whatever because it's just SO much better."
I want to play that character, because I want to play that character. Not because I want to play some mechanically superior tank-death-machine. As I said, I'm definitely saving your build and heed some of your advice, because that tank-death-machine looks quite appealing to me. But that would be a hole 'nother character. :)

@SmiloDan:
Pushing Assault looks very interesting, thanks! And Stand Still looks like a solid choice either. I must have overlooked those two before. Stuff like that is exactly what I was hoping to get as advice here. :)

@Selvaxri:
Thanks for the advice with the martial master. I will definitely take a second look at that one, because it definitely looks interesting and versatile. But to use it in PFS I'd need to buy yet another book and I already have several on my list.

@Sir Belmont the Valiant:
Thanks for the example build. I am sure to stea... erm "borrow" some of those feat choices. Especially the Step up - chain looks like it would fit into my fighting style idea.

Looks like it will come down to a combination of the "Step Up"-feats, Pushing Assault, Stand Still, Combat Reflexes and some others like Iron Will to bolster my defences. Never thought I'd say that, but as a fighter I have still too few feats to get all the nice feats I would like to take. x)

Thanks everyone for the help! I'm sure to put that advice to good use.

@Flutter:
Thanks, I already came across that guide and read it.
Your advice is most appreciated. I'll keep that lemming-mentality in mind when I get to the table. I was planning for a longbow as a ranged option; for the first level - due to limited wealth - i was going to buy a few javelins. Okay-range and strength to damage seems alright for the little gold they cost.
I was already planning on becoming as self-sufficient as possible. And the fighter, who dismisses his saves is very quickly a dead fighter... or the reason for a party kill.

@Jason Wedel:
Yeah, those two books just bubbled higher on my to-buy-list. Looks like I'm going to have a Pathfinder library sooner or later. :)

Build

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 11
CHA 7

Traits: Observant (Grand Lodge Trait); +1 Perception, Perception as class skill (always worth it and fits the observant fighter I have in mind)
(Rich Parents? can anybody tell if it is worthwile? 900 gold on LVL 1 seems pretty neat) / Indomitable Faith / Reactionary <<< one of those as second

1: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Toughness/(Additional Traits? there are some nice ones, though the crème dé la crème is pretty scattered over several books I don't have yet)
2: Improved Trip
3: Iron Will
4: Improved Disarm
5: Dodge
6: Lunge
7: Mobility
8: Combat Patrol
9: Vital Strike
10: ?
11: ?

Well, that's what I came up with. With vanilla fighter I have the chance to pick up some nice training options as soon as I buy the Weapon Master & Armor Master Handbooks. The feat choices are from Core and Advanced Players Guide, both of which I have available.
Or are the Power Attack/Cleave/Focus/Spec. feats really important and I shouldn't forego them?
Also: Combat Patrol seems really useful for the kind of controller I have in mind, but Dodge and Mobility is a pretty steep investment. Or are those two more worthwile than they were in 3.5?

@Slim Jim:
Holy mother of Moradin... that sounds like quite some build!
That is pretty much how I imagine a dwarven fighter. A massive, 4 foot high boulder with a beard. Stationary if it doesn't want to move. And good luck stopping it, when it decides to do so.
That said: My DnD 3.5 char was a human fighter; my WoW Char was a human fighter; my Baldurs Gate I & II char was a human fighter; my Neverwinter Nights I & II Char was a human fighter (well the first one at least); my... well, you get the picture. :)
This won't be the last fighter I intend to play in PFS. But it IS my first. And my first fighter is Malthus; ever has been, ever will be. And it is about time that Malthus battles his way through a new world. :)
I agree that there are many mechanically better race choices for a fighter in Pathfinder, but this one is mine.
But I'm definitely going to save your build idea. That is now on top of my "Tanky McTankiness" fighter build list I intend to play.
Oh and while I agree with your Tolkien-Archetypes-Principle: Gandalf is - as you said - out of the picture; he is a half-god (Maiar) which is quite cheaty. He is basically Tolkiens overpowered DM character. ;)

I am going to keep your advice in mind. (Mantra: "I am not the barbarian. I am not the barbarian. I am not the barbarian.") And try to keep myself helpful in several ways, while not missing out on my main principle.

@Gavmania:
Yes I think that is the route I'm going to take. Though I'll have to make do with a spiked gauntlet, until I buy the Adventurers Armory book and am allowed to buy a cestus.
Lunge is definitely on my feat list and enlarge person is also something I have on top of my to-buy-list.

I'll cobble a build together today, if I have the time.

Already thanks everyone for the helpful feedback!

Wow that's a lot of advice, thanks everyone!

@Sir Belmont:
The idea with TWF and a whip sounds neat, but doesn't really fit the image I have in mind. Still, I'm going to keep that in mind, as it sounds like a fun character concept! :)

@Chess Pwn:
Yeah, I thought about going just melee striker. For that I would be particularly drawn to the greatsword, the falchion or the scythe. (the image of a fighter with a scythe is just awesome to me, plus x4 crit multiplier sounds nice)
But the possibility of area control sounds extremely useful for a group. They either have to go around me... or through me. Either they have to lose a round or they get my boot in their backside.
And a backup weapon sounds definitely like a useful plan.

Does anybody know if I can attack with a spiked glove, while still carrying my guisarme (or whatever) in the other hand? This way I wouldn't have to switch weapons all the time.

@Selvaxri:
I thought about the point of survivability too, but i figured i could compensate for the 14 CON with the toughness feat early on. And a higher DEX would help my AC as well as any combat maneuvers I intend to make.
I could try with 14 DEX and try to get an ability enhancing item for that later, but I read PFS is a bit tricky when it comes to wealth by level and you rarely have money to spare. Can anybody tell me if that is the case?

@Scott Wilhelm:
Although that really sounds like an interesting character concept, I absolutely dislike familiars. Maybe I am a little biased, because in 3.5 they seemed to be more of a burden than anything else. Plus, I'd need the Familiar Folio, which is not exactly high on my priority list.
Concerning your other point: I didn't think about the sleeping in armor part, because in my last games it never really occured as a problem. If it was a game focused on realism, I'd be sure to take endurance. But if you say in PFS that is not that much of a thing, I think I'll gamble and try without it. If it seems to become a problem, I can still take it; if anyone has feats to spare for stuff like that, it's the fighter. :)

Thank you very much for your advice!

Yes, I thought about going just vanilla fighter, but for that I'd need the Weapon Master Handbook and the Armor Master Handbook... at least if I want to have the interesting options available. No matter how I think about doing it, it looks like I'm going to need about half a dozen books to make the fighter work. Is that normal? Or am I thinking too complicated?

If it was just for some home campaigns, I'd pick whatever I feel like from the SRD, but for PFS it really looks like I'll have to buy, like, three more books. That would be a little over the top to just play one character.

But concerning your advice, maybe I really should just start working with what I have... which would be the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Players Guide. And the Ultimate Magic, but I don't believe there are interesting options for a fighter in there.

Any advice on weapons and tactics?

For the reach dilemma I thought about combining a polearm with a spiked glove, so I could attack adjacent squares. Or are there possibilities to achieve that with a reach weapon?

Okay I came up with a few more details.

First, though the Martial Master archetype looks pretty flexible, it seems to me that it would be a nightmare in book-keeping. If I read it right, I'd need notes on EVERY possible combat talent and combat talent combination to make good use of his martial flexibility. Also that looks like it would slow down the game speed tremendously, figuring out which talent is best in XY situation. Pass.

So it boils down to either the Mobile Fighter archetype or the Unbreakable archetype. Both have really nice gimmicks and I can't really decide which one works better for the kind of defender/maneuver fighter I have in mind.
Any thoughts or insight on that from people who have experience with fighters?

Ability Scores
STR 16
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 11
CHA 7

Those are the ability scores I came up with, though i am not sure if I should favor CON over DEX, but DEX would allow me more AoO (with combat reflexes) and up my AC.

Also: I just checked on reach weapons and I realized, I would have 10ft reach, but couldn't attack foes adjacent to me. Wouldn't that become a problem? Or would I just have to "kite" the enemies with 5-foot-steps?

Hello fellow Pathfinders!

That's my first post in this forum and I am about to create my very first PFS fighter. For this task I need a little help from the more experienced face-smashers and/or belly-gutters here.

Malthus Krieger is a human. That much is certain. He follows a long tradition of other human fighters I had in several other RPGs both online and offline, that were carrying the same name.

I'd like to play him as a type of clever and tactical maneuver/defender fighter with maybe a dash of skull-bashing.

I looked over the Pathfinder fighter (I have experience with DnD 3.5, but they are quite different) and some of the archetypes and I am not sure what I should go for.

I really don't want to lose armor training I and II; the ability to move quickly in heavy armor seems extremely valuable to me, as my experience with fighters is that they often lack mobility when they want to wear the heavy stuff.

I narrowed it down to the Martial Master, the Mobile Fighter and the Unbreakable. Those three seem to represent best what I would like to play. Also I don't want to play some obscure mutation stuff or anything; I want to play a "classical" fighter. Plus the build should be PFS legal and i would prefer the regular books and not some really niche things, because I need to buy the source material.

Concerning gear and tactics I thought about using polearms, because of the reach and combining it with feats like Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise (prerequisite) and combat maneuver feats (Improved Trip and such).

Any advice you'd like to give me is much appreciated! Ability scores, feats, archetypes, tactics and equipment; all that is up for debate.

Thanks in advance!

--Malthus