Iron Dragon

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Add anouther to the yes pile. I've been getting most of my material recently from my local gamer store & books a million, with the ocassional PDF buy from here or drivethrurpg. This however, I would pre-order direct! :) I've been around since 2nd Edition & was here for Pathfinder Beta testing. Standpoint is easily on my top 5 list of towns/cities from across editions/campaign settings. I've even uprooted it and placed it in other settings over the years. So put up a pre order and you can take my money good sir!

Keep posting people, don't let this thread die.


There's been conflict on the scale for Absalom as well in the past, so I'm entirely unsurprised. I doubt you will get an answer for this though until the building itself is featured in an official product, as answering this question now would limit their design options in the future. So for now, it's as big as you want it to be. You'd have to map it out yourself anyway as stands. I tend to go with the larger messurments myself.


Link says product is no longer available. XD Came here from the Shadowrun thread btw.


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First off I aplogise if there are typos in this post, I'm working off my phone. That said, I would actually love to see a hardback Absalom with;

1) A more detailed look at its government structure, including at least names for all of the high council seats. This isn't the decimverate people, what those roles are and who fills them should be common knowledge in arguably the most important city in the inner sea.

2) A map with a scale that fits. People who've lurked these forums long enough should remember at least one thread where James had to chime in on the disparity in scale between the latest map and the first given population density at the time.

3) A working setup for doing arena fights in the Iorium, give us something to at least mold to our liking if not outright use to go along with that tasty morsel from the inner sea combat faction.

4) I seem to recall somewhere long ago a mention about a perhaps mythic Gyr. I would love to see this happen with a full stat write-up.

5) Maybe an adventure playing with the political shadow war to slake the thirst of our cloak & dagger / rp happy groups.

6) For that matter why not do a line of stand alone modules each to show off a diffrent section of the city. You started this once long ago. Did those two modules not sell well?

7) speaking of hangman's noose could be a great way to start in on a kingdom building / downtime heavy campaign where the players must rebuild precipice quarter and become it's council.

8) Wet our tongues some more about the starstone. Outside of a mythic snipit that well has been so dry for such a long time it's bleeding dire dust mite army units by now.

9) Give us army units for Absalom for people who want to stage a new siege of Absalom.

10) Full actual city stats for that matter, latest one is missing a population breakdown btw. Also, given that more and more new city qualities keep piping up, might be nice to give Absalom a unique one of its own.

11) Bust out with your Occult Mysteries and give us one or two NPCs that DMs know for a fact are veiled masters.

12) Detailed floor plans for the Forae Logos, Azlanti Keep, Irorium, and Pathfinder Lodge.

13) For the mage school fans give us a write-up on the Arcanamirium. There are precious few fully fleshed out mage schools we can rip off out there. I would love to see it get its due.

14) more notes on local festivals, I feel like there would be a number of these within a city so large and so old.

15) more NPCs/places to flesh the districts out. I would expect to find an NPC of just about every class in Absalom.

I guess the big point is, Paizo has unleashed a whole lot of extra flavor / optional systems and classes over the years and Absalom seems the perfect place for them all to come to light. A new book embracing this would give tons of options for DMs/players and in no way would it prevent DMs from adding custom content. Even with a Ptolus sized book there would still be buildings left unfilled, entire streats even. This city is just too big to fill in all the cracks. So I say embrace the system and it's natural evolution and make Absalom a cornerstone piece showing off how all these things can come together and be part of a greater whole. No game should require all the extra rules and subsystems but every game should allow for them if the Dms/players wish to use them. Give us a city of passion, of political integue, of roaring stadiums, lost urban ruins, magical academies, adventuring guilds, clashing armies, and more, then let us choose which of those stories we want to tell/experience.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is a good idea. I can make that happen.

Glad you liked it. ^_^ And its good to see weighing in as always there Chemlak. You throw some interesting ideas there. Never thought of perk chains but those could be neat, might be hard to pull off though. Racial perks might be cool too.

Teamwork feats with perks would actually be very nice. Unless a class has them as a bonus feat I've never known anyone to take them outside of me and my brother for cooperative spellcasting. They're nice, but few of them are worth two or more people sacrificing precious feat slots, or that at least seems how everyone I've talked to about them seems to view the whole of that particular sub-system. Allowing the party to get some of them or even enhance a few with perks might make them more appealing however.

As for the loners, I have no problem with them getting a few more perks, because they really are missing out when opting not to use followers/cohorts. I've sort of come to see the leadership deal as an extra subsystem just like downtime or kingdom building. The fact that you've made it so that it can mesh well with those systems makes it even more awesome. If I'm doing a game with downtime but no kingdom building I just tell players don't take any kingdom perks. Its that simple. But with that in mind, not every PC is going to want to invest in kingdom building, or downtime, or even followers/cohorts. So how do you keep them feeling not left out while everyone else is getting cool stuff? Loner perks. I would however add in a bit of warning to DMs that this is meant to please a niche, not the whole. If most are all but one of your PCs are taking the loner perks, they might want to just not use the system. Unless they want to give their players an arbitrary power boost that is, but there are plenty of other ways to do that; extra stat points, extra feats, bonus gold/items, gestalt, and more.

More mass combat would be cool too. I've been a but busier tonight than I initially thought, so I'll think about some specific ideas like my earlier suggestion tomorrow.


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Makes being attacked by an Inevitable yelling at you in complex equations very frightening to most... Suggest that the number 42 is the meaning to life and even the Axiomites have forgotten the original question. ;P


Perfect example of realism vs. gameism. So the answer is: It's whatever a DM and their PCs are comfortable with. Going the as is route is the easy way. Giving them a unique language and many others to boot is the realistic way that can add more player immersion if that's what you're going for. Personally in my games we throw out common call it Taldane and be done with it. Makes linguistics and a few more spells much more useful/powerful though, so keep that in consideration. As for their language if any race outside of robots were to speak in math, I would definitely make it the Axiomites and their favored creations the Inevitables.


Actually, I've got two already.

First, our 7th level campaign deals with Dwarven resurgance and an attempt to reclaim / unite the sky citadels of golarion. As such, a lot of time will pass in game, especially since we're doing kingdom building rules. Eventually our initial party may pass away/retire and hand off the reigns to a second generation of player characters. Would be neat to see more focus on family members as cohorts / followers and the potential ability for them to become replacement PCs. My spouse and I for example are playing a middle age pair of Dwarves that lead a small clan (Runehammer) which specializes in clockworks and worship Brigh. We like the idea of making our children our next set of PCs when the time comes.

Second, might you adress the leadership feat by having it give 1-2 extra perks? I say this because some classes like the cleric with the leadership domain gained it as a bonus feat and are now weakened by its loss. If you adressed that in the first pdf I apologise, but I currently lack my copy before me, though rest assured I will check it to make sure tonight


Alex, big fan of your work here. Running a high level / mythic game that's currently incorperating your system and about to start anouther at 7th level with a whopping 7 pcs using the kingdom building and downtime rules. We're looking at using your perk system there too and considering that this game is planned to be a many year/long term campaign we should be able to offer plenty of feedback over the next few years. I'll get my brother to sound off on this thread as well. That being said, I'll start scratching my brain tonight for some ideas/suggestions.


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Kalindlara wrote:

Planned Spontaneity, from the Pathfinder Society Primer, may be what you're looking for. ^_^

I seem to recall a few similar abilities - that's just the first that came to mind.

I could kiss you right now! Thank you very much, this was driving me nuts, been searching for it for awhile now.


This might be the wrong forum for this post, I am a bit unsure, so if any mods see this thread and think it should be in a different section please move it, as I would appreciate getting the appropriate help with this question.

That being said, I seem to recall a feat or maybe an archetype that allowed a wizard to memorize two spells in a single spell slot and when one was used they both go. So for example: I take the feat and memorize fireball/lighting bolt both in the same 3rd level spell slot. Once I cast either of them both are gone for the day because they occupied the same slot.

I do believe this was a Paizo feat/ability somewhere, but I might be thinking of a third party one. If anyone has a clue to what I'm talking about, whether its Paizo or third party, I would very much appreciate being pointed in the right direction here.


Back again. Apologies for the delay, have been visiting a loved one in the hospital. Took a look at your new site, and I agree it feels much better. A quick browse through the equipment tab shows promise, and I highly approve of your choices for additional races to cover. I might have an idea for shammy totems to throw at you by tomorrow, need to mull a few options first and check 2 3P sources. Otherwise keep it up! :)


Hey there Epic, I'm a long term DM (since 2nd ed) and have been playing wow since Warcraft I, so needless to say, I'm always interested when someone wants to combine the two. ^_^ Having read your post and taken a tour through your site I have a few important questions to ask before I get too in-depth with any sort of review, as well as a couple of comments to already share.

Question 1: Are you doing this conversion just because you enjoy both WoW and pen/paper RPGs, or do you have a specific group/campaign you want to run it with?

Question 2: If a specific group/campaign when do you intend to start/ how much time to you have to devote to making custom content?

Question 3: How passionate are you about this? You've definitely put some good solid work into this effort so far, but do you intend to see it all the way through?

With that out of the way, lets look at a few things. I'll start with the races since that's the first part I skimmed through. All in all you've done a pretty solid job in my opinion. There are a few of the racials that I probably would've bumped the cost up by 1 or 2 points but that's not really a big deal considering all but one of the races so far are 12 point buy. How do you intend to deal with Worgen? Your default options being to simply use the Pathfinder Core Rules for lycanthropes or to make a race point buy for them as well. Do you intend to do other races such as the Pandaren or possibly even ones that aren't currently playable in the MMO, such as the popular Murloc? One of the big boons of a pen/paper RPG is having greater freedom in customizing characters and controlling their actions in ways you simply couldn't in a MMO. So this kind of thought processes needs to be taken into consideration when setting up a cast of playable races, especially considering that WoW has a fair number of potentially additional player races to choose from.

Switching gears lets look at classes, I fully agree with the choice to use the Adamant Entertainment's priest. As for the warlock, have you considered making that a term for certain casters that deal with fell and ignoring the class itself? Summoners make great demos for example, and in fact, Deep Magic from Kobold Press I do believe has a demon summoner archetype already for them. Taking this approach to warlocks frees up the need for creation/R&D and lets you focus on more demanding aspects, as well as gives players fewer "house rules" to have to learn/adapt to.


Dotting


James Jacobs wrote:
Because what's good for a fiction character is bad for a team of PCs, and vice-versa. And because one of the two needs to be the star, and they can't both be the stars. And because players get tired real fast of NPCs who get "special treatment" in adventures because of the idea that they have...

Valid points, though I will point out that Eando, at least for us, didn't steal the show, he made it more meaningful for the players who already knew about him. That being said I can certainly see how such exceptions could be overdone or handled poorly, though I think that part is more on the DMs shoulders than the developers. I personally treat my NPCs like characters from a Glen Cook novel; no one is safe from death's steely grasp.

Regardless, here's hoping for a Jeggare and Radovan encounter somewhere down the road!


James Jacobs wrote:

We can't use Iggwilv, no... but we still statted her up back in Dungeon #149. She's on par with Baba Yaga in power.

And we've been pretty hesitant about crossing the lines between the fiction and the adventures, but we'll see...

Fair enough, and yeah I'm already working on converting her to Pathfinder from that exact issue. :)

As for the second part, what's the reasoning for that? I feel like you or one of the other devs may have mentioned something about it before but I can't recall where. My default guess would be that giving set stats would in some ways limit the freedom/creativity of the authors. Although there's certainly plenty of ways to let someone do a cameo without having to flesh them out in solid ink so to speak. Point in case: I don't ever recall actually seeing stats for Terendelev (the mythic Silver Dragon in WoTR), outside of her ravener form in book 6. Yet her one scene and the gift of her spell/scales sets the entire thing into motion.

Or is it more of a not wanting the books to be cannon kind of thing since you don't want to do the rolling timeline like Forgotten Realms did? If so, I can certainly understand and appreciate that line of reasoning as well. Personally I'm on the other side of that fence, but I wont deny that it does have its setbacks/flaws, especially from a developer/publisher's point of view. Besides, nothing stops me from making my own time lines and saying this book or adventure path already happened in my games.

Also, to not fully hijack this thread, there's a running debate in my gaming circle on whether or not Riddleport is a parody of Seattle WA. If so, that's one hell of an easter egg in my books.


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Kalindlara wrote:
Lurion Coravoss wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Hmmmmm...

Oh I know about that Kalindlara, I've also been playing since 2nd ed, and have a bookcase full of things including hundreds of dragon & dungeon magazines. "Tashanna" is one of my favorite old school big bads. I just don't think we'll ever get to see her directly in Pathfinder. Lilth knows who I'm talking about though ^_^.

Speaking of which I'm about to run a few players through a pathfinder updated savage tides using the mythic ruleset, should be fun.

I see. I don't think they can use ** spoiler omitted ** though. ^_^

Now you're getting it, and yeah you're probably right. I was sad to see her and the other great wizard names fall off their spells. To this day my brother still calls it Mordenkainen's Disjunction, etc. He refuses to rename them. But it was a price that had to be paid and nothing stops those of use who still love such characters from updating / restoring them, so I can / have lived with that. Besides Pathfinder has already produced a good number of strong NPCs that seem to be really popular. Hmmm that gives me an idea.

Hey James if you're still reading this, any chance we might ever get to let our players actually meet Count Varian Jeggare? I ask because meeting Eando Kline went over extremely well during the Serpent's Skull AP with my group. Three out of four of my players actually knew who he was, kinda made it a big deal, like the good old days of getting the artifact key for Maure Castle from Mordenkainen.


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Ross Byers wrote:
There's also the naughty succubus statue that turns up pretty frequently as loot in low-level adventures.

Which ties in just nicely with Ayavah in Magnimar


Don't forget the Foxglove's :P


Kalindlara wrote:
Hmmmmm...

Oh I know about that Kalindlara, I've also been playing since 2nd ed, and have a bookcase full of things including hundreds of dragon & dungeon magazines. "Tashanna" is one of my favorite old school big bads. I just don't think we'll ever get to see her directly in Pathfinder. Lilth knows who I'm talking about though ^_^.

Speaking of which I'm about to run a few players through a pathfinder updated savage tides using the mythic ruleset, should be fun.


Baba Yaga's 9th daughter Tashanna.. Looks at Paizo devs long and hard for that one. I see what you did there, and I love it! Any chance we might actually ever see her cough cough..


If it hasn't been wiped out yet in your game, Windsong Abby has some mid level spellcasters, so you could pull a few from there. See more on it from Shattered Star, Beyond the Doomsday Door #64.


The short answer, there are none. So you have one of three options:

1) Ignore it

2) Up the levels/alter a few NPCs. I did Abstalar Zantus (changed to an oracle), Brodert Quink (changed to diviner / loremaster), and Ilsorai Gandethus (added levels of arcane trickster).

3) Add in some NPCs of your own. I did a couple of these as well.

If you dig thru the Rise of the Runelords forums you'll also find tons of community content expanding upon Sandpoint.


Can't wait for October now!


Back again, and I still find myself in total agreement with Chemlok here (great examples btw Chem). Looking back at my post I think I failed to focus on the fact that there are indeed good qualities to the Ultimate Campaign's system.

For one thing it synergizes with downtime rules very well, and I'm actually a big fan of the goods ruleset. For anouther, I see rooms like the Throneroom that never appeared in SBG, and in my books new rooms equals more variety, which translates into more unique / memorable locations.

That being said, I bleave that anouther big part of our enthusiasm for this idea comes from how well you guys did with the Ultimate Rulership, which is by far my favorite Ultimate plug-in. Chem is right, nothing in Rulership is actually needed but in my games and the games of two other Dms I know it's been very well received and incorperated with the same kind of enthusiasm that SBG was back in the days of 3.0/3.5. If Legendary Games could bring even half the badassness of Ultimate Rulership to an Ultimate Strongholds type product it would still be a cornerstone product in my games.

As for Rightious plug-ins it would've been a fourth on my list but I stuck to three. A big reason being that I'm well aware of many of the additions/changes to Mythic coming with your 3 books. I highly suspect/hope that they will drasticly alter the community's views on Mythic content in general, and I also hope that Paizo will acknowledge / utilize them as they have the Advanced Bestiary and Tome of Horrors products.

Which brings me to my next point, Mythic and Technolgical content for Ultimate Rulership and possibly an Ultimate Strongholds product. Both of these aspects are massively missing gaps with the realease of Mythic and Technology into the game. Point in case, my players want to turn Iron Gods into a kingdom building campaign after the last adventure. I have 0 idea how they would build/pay for a stronghold like the Technique League's base, and even less of a clue on how to reflect the Advanced technology in settlement/ kingdom stats. I know that's a lot to heap on Legendary Games, but again I come back to the whole massive faith in you guys to produce high quality content with an emphasis on final product over time tables.

Oh and one last thing Jason, as is WotR highly relies on the PCs going to Noticula's domain to deal with the mining operation that is the very reason why we are facing so many mythic demons (a key part of the plot) I don't see how they could've avoided using her and still stayed within the limit of 6 adventures, so I won't fault Paizo for reusing an idea from Savage Tide there. I think it's a better example/argument for breaking from the structured mold of six adventures to better cover a story thoroughly. It does however leave room for legendary to add in side adventures to get different allies though, so I guess I'm curious as to who you would've brought to the table then?/might we see this in a future Rightous plug-in?


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Been a crazy weekend on my part, but glad to see this thread still going.

To answer a couple of things:

I'm a guy Silver Griffin. ^_^

Jason Nelson wrote:
What did you feel made that particular book so good?

On a number points I agree with Chemlak there Jason. But vagueness is no path to take here so let me crack open my copy and the Ultimate Campaign and compare.

1) First things first construction materials. Ignoring rarer materials like Mithral, with the stronghold builder's guidebook (SBG) I can make a Defensive Wall made out of Iron to protect the open parts of my theoretical dwarven mountain fortress. Ultimate Campaign (UC) gives no support for this. My defensive walls are wooden or at double cost stone. On top of that, SBG also covers wall augmentations very well with over two dozen options. UM we get a single option for a guard post to make it walkable, that's it. To continue with this line of thought, in SBG we also get rules and tables for a variety doors and windows.

2) Lets look at some rooms for a sec. UM I can get a book repository that gives a +3 to a single knowledge check, and that's it. I can buy some furnishings for it and make it look a little cooler but that money sink has no bonus to it. SBG I have a choice between three grades of libraries that come with varying book lot spaces, with a side bar on book lots and how to create scaling ones for better bonuses on specific or general topics. The higher the bonus, the more it costs and the more lots it takes up. Simple but effective, and a system I dearly wish you guys at Paizo would adopt. You have so many different setups when it comes to pricing your book collections that grant circumstance bonuses to knowledge skills. It honestly makes me wana rip my shirt off and go Tarzan in the trees outside. Which sucks, because in a fantasy game with Wizards, Sages, and more you'd think book collections would actually make good nonmagical player loot and great additions to player strongholds. Heck books come up so much in this game there is a reoccurring thread that shows up in the Houserules/homebrew where people have posted hundreds of unique/interesting books they've created. But now I'm getting off topic. Its this kind of extra info and rulesets that turn SBG from a decent product into a great one. And considering Paizo did a Dragon Magazine with extra rooms and a huge example castle I'm inclined to think that some of you, at least at the time, agreed. I'd like to see this kind of scaling available for other rooms as well if possible. Better tiers of forges, alchemy labs, etc. Oh and more room types Is always awesome. I can come up with a list of some I'd like to see if you want.

3) Mobile strongholds (sequels in delight) I can list a number of times in pathfinder that mobile bases have shown up so far, such as cloud castles or how about homes that walk around on legs. SBG gives us the rules and costs. UM does not.

4) Magic item uses for, and interactions with rooms is another good point for SBG which I find very odd to be lacking in the UM considering even the kingdom building rules got magical street lamps and everflowing springs using decanters of endless water. On top of that they brought out a bunch of new magic items and room enchantments designed to augment strongholds. These are concepts you're already using in Paizo adventure paths but not giving us a way to recreate them for player homes. Point in case: Serpent's Skull #42 Sanctum of the Serpent God, pg 44-45 the Tower of Preservation room. The entire massive room has been enchanted with a levitate effect that can be used by anyone who makes a DC 25 spellcraft check. That's honestly an awesome idea and our group's battle in the room was kinda epic. So how do I recreate that effect? My players really wanted to use that idea for their own base in several rooms.

5) Portal creation/costs. Other than teleportation circles I can't find rules for creating permanent portals in pathfinder yet. Would love to see something like what they had in SBG.

I'm sure I could think of more things but I'm running out of time here. I'll check back later tonight or tomorrow.


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1. Ultimate Plug-Ins
2. Kingdom-Building AP Plug-Ins
3. Far East AP Plug-Ins

And to answer your NEXT question for the Ultimate Plug-Ins, I have 3 proposals:

1. Ultimate Strongholds - Back in 3.0/3.5 the stronghold builders guide book was crazy popular with just about every DM/player I ever encountered. That being said, ultimate campaigns had a nice section dedicated to building but as with everything in that book, the systems were great, yet felt lacking in overall depth/coverage. As such, your ultimate plug-ins have been much appreciated by this DM.

2. Ultimate Factions - I'd like to see more tools to assist DMs/PCs in making their very own factions from thieves guilds, to bardic colleges, to magical academies, to fighting schools, to secret societies, and more. Inner sea combat/magic and occult mysteries have definitely hooked my group in on the faction/organization ruleset, and left us wanting more. So give us a robust tool set for making that happen, and maybe a few plug & play examples ready to throw right into the mix.

3. Ultimate Downtime - Same line of thought here. I'd like a more robust system for setting up and running shops / businesses.

Besides that, more material for each of the existing ultimate plug-ins, like more settlement attributes (no joke, before I was doing my morning check of the paizo forums I was stating up a small city for some home-brew and I still have the Ultimate Rulership pdf open sitting at the civic attributes XD )

Also, that reminds me, Well Educated now has the exact same modifiers as the Brod-Minded attribute introduced in Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars pg 11, minus flavor text. Though I think Brod-Minded would be an attitude. Would you leave Well Educated alone or tweak it in light of that?


Sounding off as anouther voice for more Eutropia and Taldor. I would also be game to see her pop up in an Absalom AP as well, considering there is canon of parties in the shadow war wanting her to take over and use Absalom as the main powerbase of a revived Taldor. Been waiting for more on this for a very long time actually.


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Woot! Actually very psyched for this path. I'm a bit curious though, do you have any other paths in the works as well?


Dragon78 wrote:

Do you mean that at every 4 levels then get an extra skill point per character level?

I would love to get more stat/ability points per level especially in a low magic and/or low money campaign.

Yep


christos gurd wrote:
Also want to point out legacy wepons making a triumphant return.

I was a big fan of these back before the wizards/paizo split, and they already have somewhat via the mythic rules. Seeing someone combine those two might make things really nasty. Of course that just means they have that much more of an Achilles heel if its ever stolen/temporarily dispelled/disarmed/or even destroyed.


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Can't wait for this book, and I'm very curious to see what they did for the skills section.

I've been doing 25 point buy, feat every odd level, ability point every even level, new retroactive skill point every four levels since pathfinder came out for my games. The skill points / extra ability points was something proposed back in beta. Personally, I've found that setup to work extremely well. Players actually tend to spread out ability points and pick up craft/knowledge/preform/profession skills, giving their characters much more depth.

On the monster side, it just means that I can on the fly add a few skills here and there, and advanced monsters get extra ability points at the same rate. Otherwise no change, and truth be told more than half the time I don't even bother to modify them at all. Its more of a "Oh this guy survived and had/has some good rp potential, lets tweak things a little a bring him back around at some point." which again has worked out very well.

Starting with item creation feats has always been a bit clunky, though Paizo's suggestion of extra gp worth of starting gear for mid to higher level characters with item creation feats has eased this greatly. Currently going with 1-2 items creation feats = 20% extra gear, 3+ = 50%, with the extra gear being limited to items that are made via that character's chosen item creation feats.

I do feel that rogue is still viable, but underpowered in comparison to investigator/slayer. So I really hope to see some good changes there.

All in all if everything goes really well, I'd like to see additional unchained books over the next few years. Is there any chance we might start seeing paizo blog previews within the next month or so?


I have every single last pdf from your drivethrurpg store, and I've loved all of them. More mythic, more plugins, and I would love to see some tech stuff too, mythic robots, more weapons and gear. Other than that, I'm a big occult / horror fan. Maybe an Ultimate Technology expanding kingdom building to include advanced tech/buildings. That's about all I can think of off the top of my mind, other than I can't wait to see what Mythic pdf comes out Monday. :P


Male Human (Azlanti) Wizard (Diviner): 17 / Merchant Prince 5

Hello everyone, glad to be joining you. I've been silent the last two days because I was fighting off a case of slight food poisoning. XD

I can't wait to see what's in store for us all, and hopefully at least one or more of us will make it all the way thru. Best of luck!


The Elusive Trout wrote:
Lurion Coravoss wrote:

Okay here's my working Bard (Detective); Sir Edric Phantomheim.

I have a few things to run by/ mention to you ET:

1) I know hybrid classes are forbidden but can I still use feats from the ACG? If so I would like to use the Orator feat. This bard is actually going to be Int based with Cha as his secondary stat.

2) He's middle aged and applied his racial +2 to Int.

3) I picked Rich Parent's as a trait. This is not an effort to munchkin. The things achieved with it were:
A) Making my Masterwork Sword Cane Silver; planing on setting up lore for it as a family heirloom.
B) Grabbing a Magnifying Glass & a Medical Examiner's Kit (Treating as a heal kit, expect for examining & preforming autopsies on bodies).
C) 4 Rubies (50 gp each) plan on building lore with these into my character's background. Think minor curse that causes them to keep popping up even if he sells them, they are stolen, or he ties to get rid of them.

4) I have an interesting back story in mind for this character but I want to run it buy you first and if approved there are a few parts that should remain between us until you decide to use them. So is there an email I could send a write up to, or some other way you'd like me to send it?

You can pm it to me here. :@

I am interested, indeed.

I just sent you a private message ET via the Paizo profiles. Let me know what you think and based off of that I will make a full write up.


Okay here's my working Bard (Detective); Sir Edric Phantomheim.

I have a few things to run by/ mention to you ET:

1) I know hybrid classes are forbidden but can I still use feats from the ACG? If so I would like to use the Orator feat. This bard is actually going to be Int based with Cha as his secondary stat.

2) He's middle aged and applied his racial +2 to Int.

3) I picked Rich Parent's as a trait. This is not an effort to munchkin. The things achieved with it were:
A) Making my Masterwork Sword Cane Silver; planing on setting up lore for it as a family heirloom.
B) Grabbing a Magnifying Glass & a Medical Examiner's Kit (Treating as a heal kit, expect for examining & preforming autopsies on bodies).
C) 4 Rubies (50 gp each) plan on building lore with these into my character's background. Think minor curse that causes them to keep popping up even if he sells them, they are stolen, or he tries to get rid of them.

4) I have an interesting back story in mind for this character but I want to run it buy you first and if approved there are a few parts that should remain between us until you decide to use them. So is there an email I could send a write up to, or some other way you'd like me to send it?


Going to bed, I'll post the Bard (Detective) tomorrow.


A few questions: 1) How in depth should I make any backgrounds. 2) Will we be using any of the optional Sanity rules floating around? 3) Can I play a character who is already crazy/has issues [such as having a split personality or a drinking problem] 4) Is there anything tying our players together or do we randomly meet at the start.

And finally, [if allowed] is anyone else intrested in having my character know theirs [ family member, rival, ex, childhood friend]?


Damn, no Investigator for a silent hill campaign! XD I've been looking for a good excuse to play one since ACG beta.

That being said, I grew up playing the Silent Hill / Fatal Frame series, so this hits the spot for me. I'm thinking Bard (Detective), Rogue, or Witch. I'm open to all 3 so if you have a preference just let me know. Alternatively, I can stat them all up, then just wait and see what the other players would like to run first.


This was covered in a thread months ago, sorry for a late response have been piled with things to do. The pricing is about right (Considering a fighter can get a +5 vorpal sword for 200k, and would have 40k worth of room left over to slap a mythic ability on it.) & yes add Legendary Crafter to it.


250k is what I was guessing as a far end as well, and considering at high end play a fighter can walk around with a +5 vorpal adamantine longsword for a little over 200k it feels about right. I already attempted to figure out a formula and realized that they must have eyeballed the prices.

The ring of transcendent spells suggests to me otherwise on the not a thing idea. Only problem is that in order to bring down the massive price tags they seem to have tied in a boat load of mythic point costs and then threw in the potent effect as an after thought. Or at least that would be my guess anyway.


Okay so I’ve searched and come up with nothing here. Does anyone know how much a metamagic rod that uses a +5 to spell level metamagic feat costs? I’m looking for prices on all three versions.

Side Note: I’m well aware of the ring of transcendent spells, that’s not what I’m going for here.

Any help I could get with this would be much appreciated.


If a pathfinder authority (such as: Jason, James, or Eric) would be willing to make a comment on this I'd appreciate it a lot. If one of them already has in another thread, could someone please link their post here!

I could understand if the rule was left out due to book size constraints with the intention of adding it in later, or if it was even just an oversight. But to my knowledge it has not been added since. So unless I can get a straight answer, I'm going to assume that this was intentional.


So in 3.5 there was a crafting rule/concept that assigned each body slot a certain set of normal enchant parameters. Crafting an item with an enchant that didn’t fit inside those given parameters caused it to cost 1.5 times as much. However, upon searching thru the PRPG magic item creation section I have failed to find any trace of that rule set. So my question is this:

Since paizo seems to like making odd-ball/unique items (such as robes of armor, etc) has this rule been done away with?

I personally never liked it to begin with, given there were all kinds of other ways for prices of magic items to go up. It always just seemed like “yet another way” to eat more money and limit creativity (such as a character’s family signet ring being enchanted to grant a +4 to wisdom).

For my games (unless someone can point it out to me), I will be doing away with it, considering that new players/dms would have no way to even know of its existence in the first place. – Word of mouth doesn’t cut it for me!


Name Violation wrote:

using another skill inplace of a skill doesnt equal having ranks in it.

its like how the spell glibness adds a huge bonus to bluff checks, but doesnt help if you are bluffing by using the acting skill inplace of the bluff skill

Actually Name, that's another one I've never really understood. A good number of the Versatile Performance options use bluff, which would seem to indicate that its one of the favored skills to use that class feature on. And yet, here we have a bard only spell "glibness" that RAW would not work with it.

That whole concept seems rather counter intuitive to the class's design.

Note: For those of you who have not read the spell, it clearly states that the bonus only applies to when the subject of the spell is lying about something. Therefor, it still couldn't be used to affect the other portion of whichever Versatile Performance you're using.


Sevus wrote:

RAW? Yes, possibly RAI as well. You aren't treated as having ranks in the skill, you can simply fake it with an appropriate Perform skill, and ranks in the actual skill are the prerequisite.

My initial impulse is to allow it though, Drake's just as effective at Bluff and Disguise as any other Master Spy candidate regardless of how he acquired the skill.

Thanks for the feedback Sevus, and that’s pretty much how I viewed it too. If anyone else has come to this dilemma before I’d love to hear what your group/DM decided on as well.


So I just realized that a bard might get a skill point penalization for even using Versatile Performance if he/she wants to qualify for a prestige class :/

Ex: Lets’ say a bard (Drake) decides at 2nd level to take Versatile Performance (Act), because he’s in the council of thieves campaign and it would make for a great bit of background flavor. Now come around 8th Level Drake wants to take Master Spy and he meets all the requirements except that instead of having 7 ranks in Bluff & Disguise he has 7 ranks in Perform (Act), which thanks to Versatile Performance counts as both of those skills for him.

So is poor drake locked out of the gates of master spydom simply for following his class’s given features, even though he would be in fact an excellent candidate for its ranks?


Sara Marie wrote:
Lurion Coravoss wrote:

My subscriptions are being held up by what appears to be an order for Pathfinder #5—Rise of the Runelords Chapter 5: "Sins of the Saviors" (OGL) Print Edition. I didn’t order that issue, I already have one from when that adventure path originally came out. This mess up has already kept me from getting my orders with the Pathfinder Adventure Path #32: Rivers Run Red (Kingmaker 2 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition, and now its holding up my Pathfinder Adventure Path #33: The Varnhold Vanishing (Kingmaker 3 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition and accompanying Books. I would greatly appreciate if you would resolve this issue as soon as possible so that I can at least get my pdfs and start reviewing all that new material for possible use in my ongoing campaign.

Note: Please remove Sins of the Saviors from that Order, and thank you very much.

5 is cancelled and the rest should be shipping as soon as possible.

thanks,
sara marie

Thank You So Very Much! I’ve never had a problem with ordering or shipping from paizo before, and the fact that this problem was fixed so quickly after my posting about it only reminds me how much I like you guys! ^_^


My subscriptions are being held up by what appears to be an order for Pathfinder #5—Rise of the Runelords Chapter 5: "Sins of the Saviors" (OGL) Print Edition. I didn’t order that issue, I already have one from when that adventure path originally came out. This mess up has already kept me from getting my orders with the Pathfinder Adventure Path #32: Rivers Run Red (Kingmaker 2 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition, and now its holding up my Pathfinder Adventure Path #33: The Varnhold Vanishing (Kingmaker 3 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition and accompanying Books. I would greatly appreciate if you would resolve this issue as soon as possible so that I can at least get my pdfs and start reviewing all that new material for possible use in my ongoing campaign.

Note: Please remove Sins of the Saviors from that Order, and thank you very much.


Oh no worries! I wont do anything to sway the views of the community on this one. BUT... I will bump this thread due to its great importance to me!

And if I have to, I'll bump it again, and again, and... well you get the idea.

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