Linkmastr001's page

It also just occurred to me. With how long it takes to identifying items, selling is going to take longer.

No storekeep worth their salt is going to buy an item at a customer's word, they're going to identify them first. So, when you come in with your stack of magic items, the storekeep will then have to "process" and identify them. It'll take hours, maybe days, depending on how much help/backlog they have to identify items. Before, it was so quick, it was never an issue, even logically. Now? It feels like it'll take time to actually get your money.

Mathmuse wrote:

After the playtest I may invent labeled potions to make identification much faster.

ROGUE: I found a minor healing potion.
WIZARD: How do you know? You can't cast Read Magic.
ROGUE: The label says, "Rodrick's Alchemy Shoppe, Potion for Restoring Most Excellent Health, 3 gold pieces."

As a GM, I found that unidentified items are a pain. When the party finally had time to sort the treasue, they asked me about the details, but their notes are terrible. What is the sword with an ornate hilt? Let me see your treasure list. Okay, the sword is listed between the gold idol and the seven blue potions, so let me page through the module until I spot the idol. The sword must be the +1 elven orc-bane longsword from the next room, B12.

There are APs where loot includes healing potions labeled as poison and poison labeled as healing potions.

Along that note, could you imagine the above? Let's say you found some poison marked as healing and tried to sell it. Stuff gets processed, then the storekeep tries to get you arrested for trying to trick him into selling poison as a healng potion.

Linkmastr001 wrote:

On the subject, can I ask a question? How do you make Formulas? I found the feat Inventor, but that seems 100% pointless. You can only make common Formulas, which you could just buy in the form of the Basic Crafter's Book, and get them all easily.

The Basic Crafter's Book only covers the non-magical gear in the equipment section. If you want to craft magical or alchemical items you need to purchase the formulae. (Both the alchemical crafting feat and the magical crafting feat gives you four common low level formulae for free.)

Inventor allows you to create a formula for common magical or alchemical equipment without needing to purchase the formula, which may not be available. It also allows you to create non-magical equipment not listed.

I assume there will eventually a feat that lets you create uncommon and possibly rare formula.

Appreciate the clarification. I missed some of those details.

Though there is one thing that really bothers me about the Inventor feat, you can't invent anything with it. It says you can make any common formula. How can you invent something new, and have it still be common? It would be unique or rare if you're the only one who knows how to make it.

I will say I like the idea of each language having it's own sign language. Weather having it be all or nothing in character creation I'm not sure about. Especially, since it seems to be that it thinks you can't hear since you get Read Lips as a bonus feat.

I had missed the thing about scrolls. I will say up front I do like the idea. I had always assumed Draconic before, but I suppose that doesn't make sense from a Divine spell perspective. Now that they have 4 spell types, maybe they wanted to diversify the "spell language"? Dunno.

That said, there are two things I really want to see:

• I want each ancestry to get a Regional bonus language, which the player chooses at character creation: Now that Paizo seems to be doubling down on Golarion being the default setting for Pathfinder (which I'm 100% okay with), why is this not a thing? Why is a level 1 Elf, who has grown up in Varisia, unable to learn Varisian? Why can't a Dwarf in Alkenstar also know Osiriani? Before, when we got languages through skill ranks, it was easy to do. Now, it's not. Especially with people having to use a feat to get language, I don't think many characters, other then Human, will likely know a regional tongue. It will also help alongside the other systems to think more about your characters history and how they interact with the world. In a simplified manner, different aspects of character creation currently get you thinking about aspects of your character:

  Ancestry makes you think about what you are in the world.

  Background makes you think about how you were raised, and what you learned.

  Classes make you think about how you interact with the world.

  Skills help flesh out what you've done and what experiences you've had.

  Having a bonus Regional language will make you think about where you've come from.
  

• Allow us to use Downtime to learn Languages, even sign languages: We have this neat Downtime system. Why can't we use it to learn languages or their sign variants? We could drop the feats i we have to for this, but it feels like a nice organic way to learn something new. It feels like it would be better then going out, fighting some things, then suddenly learning a set of languages. Heck, if someone wants to be rather multilingual, getting someone to teach them an uncommon language could server as a nice reward.

Despite my efforts to read section intro stuff first for general ideas, I realized I missed the Skill section intro in my haste to make a character. So, I went back and looked at the intro. I discovered there is an interesting bit in it that handles some of our silly "untrained skill check scenarios".

From Skills Uses on page 142:
"Sometimes using a skill in a specific situation might require you to have a higher proficiency rank then what is listed on the table. For instance, even though a high-level barbarian untrained in Arcana could reliably use Arcana to Recall Knowledge regarding the breath weapons of the various colors of dragons, the GM might decide that Recalling Knowledge about the deeper theories behind the magical energy of a dragon's breath weapon might be something beyond the scope of the barbarian's largely utilitarian and anecdotal knowledge about how to fight dragons. The GM decides whether oa task requires a particular proficiency rank, from trained all the way up to legendary."

Thought I might post some food for thought. This does indicate to me that if it doesn't make logical sense for someone to do something untrained, then they probably shouldn't be able to.

EDIT: Hit Post too soon. Added the rest of my post and some clarity.

The difference between untrained and legendary is 6. If I was level 10 and was untrained and had no other bonuses or penalties my total would be 8. If I was legendary it would 13 (this is just an example to illustrate some math). With other mods I could have 9, or ,10, or 11, or 12. That is 6 possible different numbers.

The other thing that is vital to skills is the 4 degrees of success that is used. Being 6 better than someone else makes it supremely better to achieve critical successes or vice versa with critical failures.

These two things combined need to be considered to fully understand how proficiency's work.

Then add in that the dev's are using a universal mechanic instead of making a new subsystem to support proficency's. Then add in the goal of making things balanced at all levels and making the system work for characters great at something and characters that suck at something and you get to what PF2 is proposing.

I mention all of this so that contributors to this thread can consider there proposals from all angles.

Two fact checks on what you said:

That said, I certainly appreciate you pointing out the 4 degrees of success, which isn't something I considered until you and Unicore pointed that out.

And I also appreciate you reiterating that there is a subsystem, so it's more complicated then just "hey look, numbers!".

Hunterofthedusk wrote:

Lucid Blue wrote:

I mean really... Why would anyone field an army without a team of a couple dozen first level medics who could all but make their army immortal?

Because they would only have, what, +5 or +6 and need to hit a DC 20? So most of them would fail and then not be able to try again on that person? And feeding that many useless morons would be prohibitive? And it while 5 medics swarmed around a wounded soldier and mostly failed their rolls, the enemy could just attack a couple more times and now that soldier is dead?

How are they useless morons? Fielding 10,000 men is okay. But the 20 who stand in the back and make them all immortal aren't worth the extra food?

Put them in the back. Form a soup line. Each wounded soldier walks down the line. Even with +5 or +6, by the end of the soup line, statistically each soldier is now in perfect health and back to the front. Meanwhile the poor clerics mope around and tell the soldiers "sorry, I'm out of heal spells for the day. Head back to the soup line. They'll fix you up."

It's okay if you are on board with the dissociated math blocks. But the whole point is that they're dissociated. There's no in-fiction explanation for why it would or wouldn't work.

I would like to point out one bit about the feat that you're forgetting, the critical failure (these occur when you get DC - 10 (10 in this case), not just if you roll a nat 1 and would still fail). With a +5 to +6 you have a 25% - 20% chance to damage the person for 1d10 (instead of healing 1d10 + Wis mod) This means that while some may be at full health, others will effectively be untouched, and others dead from attempts to heal them.

That said, I am in the boat that Hit Points aren't literal wounds, but more of a figurative concept. If you see them as literal wounds always, then I can see why you may find this an issue.