Boedullus's page

Heists, as we know them from movies, depend on everyone having a specific skillset and everything falling into place.

But in an RPG you can't guarantee that there is even a diverse skill set in the party nor that everything falls into place.

So the options are either to leave the entire heist up to the GM, but that is not how Paizo APs are usually written, or to default to something they can guarantee. And for Starfinder that is that the party is perfectly able to murder things and walk through gunfire.

I mean, but they've actually done good heist adventures already. Several times. I don't know why everybody's acting like Ocean's 11 perfect precision is the only way to heist, but ffs you can smash and grab, diplomance, sneak, bribe... there's a ton of different skill sets that can overcome a set of established challenges. Like, what's the difference between a heist and any other adventure where you have to get past locked doors, armed enemies, traps and surveillance? There's a little more emphasis on subtlety, but really a squad of commandos is just as effective at plundering as a group of cat burglars.

Though again, my larger point in this post is really that the adventure is ill-conceived. Teasing them with a heist that never happens is only part of it. Even if the PCs do everything perfectly, it's just... kinda stupid? And I say that with full respect for the many brilliant ideas Paizo's put out in prior APs. It's probably why this one bugs me so much. It's rich people playing Storage Wars with a treasure ship, all the tedium of planning a heist without the excitement of actuating one, an auction full of participants who can be duped out of bidding in it, and an incredibly elaborate social scenario that culminates in a kill-stomp.
Like, what is even happening here. It's such a hot mess.

I hear you on the need for specifics, though I'd say several of the missions in Threefold Conspiracy do just that: setting up a scenario and letting players react. My beef here isn't excessive controls on a heist; is that there is no heist at all.
Players are told they're doing a heist, but then there's a bidding war instead. Then after frittering away a ton of time on that, they don't actually win but rather have to steal it anyway, except with no planning or finesse at all, just smash and grab.
It's written how my adventure would go if it went full worst case scenario. I introduce a heist, one player gets bored and goes a totally different way and decides to win the loot, so I set *that* up and they just kill their way to it anyway. Super disappointing.

For a while, I've been thinking about unsubscribing from the SF APs and just buying them piecemeal when/if they looked really good, but man. The new map pack set for Fly Free or Die is SO FREAKING GOOD. Man, here's hoping they keep doing those. The resolution, being able to switch the grid off... it's a night and day difference in quality and usability for the virtual tabletop. So. FREAKING. Happy.

Boedullus wrote:

Since one of the most common criticisms I see levied against Starfinder is that people don't enjoy the objectively cumbersome starship combat system, it seems mind-blowing to me that this book isn't overtly advertising that they're doing something to remedy it. Isn't this a bit tone-deaf? Sure, many people are fine with the slow pace of starship combat (I personally don't mind it), but many players just *hate* it. Would it have killed the dev team to include some alternate rules to speed things up or streamline things? This seems so obvious, it's kind of killing me that this wasn't addressed.

I don't know, perhaps the feedback Paizo collects beyond the forums (which tends to heavily tilt negative) is that starship combat is fun. Having played it and run it, it's been popular. It's not perfect but it's vastly superior to almost every other starship combat rpg system available.

As with others, I, too, am excited for the Starship Operations Manual.

I'm mostly referring to my own anecdotal experience with several disparate player groups, as well as basically every thread in the Starfinder FB group that pertains to starship combat. Like I said, I like it just fine, but it is objectively cumbersome, and it seemed like a good opportunity to propose an alternate system. One of the things I think Paizo's APs does really well is coming up with cool mini-games or alternate rule systems. A chase fleeing from dinosaurs in Dead Suns, the casino quest in Dawn of Flame, the horror afflictions from Signal of Screams. I really like when they're able to branch out and repurpose or tweak systems, and I was super hoping this would be a chance for them to shine on that score.

Since one of the most common criticisms I see levied against Starfinder is that people don't enjoy the objectively cumbersome starship combat system, it seems mind-blowing to me that this book isn't overtly advertising that they're doing something to remedy it. Isn't this a bit tone-deaf? Sure, many people are fine with the slow pace of starship combat (I personally don't mind it), but many players just *hate* it. Would it have killed the dev team to include some alternate rules to speed things up or streamline things? This seems so obvious, it's kind of killing me that this wasn't addressed.

I'm sorry, it sounded like someone said techs-mechs, and I have never been more excited for a game.

I am a little confused on the public knowledge of the Forever Reliquary. In the last 2 books, Xelanon believed that it was a metaphor until getting the info from the cave and Galchak was scouring records for the coordinates of the comet trying to get funding to support a research expedition. But in this book there is talk of semi-regular pilgrimages to the comet, so it couldn't be that much of a secret. Any thoughts on how to align this info into something that makes sense?

I had the same thought! This really had me twisted. I was just glad I wasn't running it live so I didn't have to suddenly retcon. "Uh, wait, so this professor, who has specifically devoted a significant portion of his intellect and time to researching the Forever Reliquary, didn't know that pilgrims routinely visit the place?"

"Um, nope, big galaxy, let's move on"

Anyone else feel like the Biohacker is rather underwhelming? Most of their abilities are so weak I feel like I'd only bother to use them because I could. Remove/add dazzling? +1/-2 to attacks or ACs? Like, it's not nothing, but it feels like you could do an entire adventure path and only actually derive any benefit from these abilities a few times. Even the presentation - you get Minor and Basic Biohacks, but there's no Improved/Greater (etc.). I feel like they hit the nail on the head - the abilities are basic, and minor, and they basically never get upgraded to anything better.
The class isn't god-awful, but I feel like they're not The Best at literally anything. The envoy, for instance, as another class with lackluster raw offense/defense, actually gets some pretty significant combat abilities, with healing, extra actions, debuff removal, etc. This feels like that, only all those capabilities are lesser, with seemingly nothing out of combat to make up for it.
Am I missing something?