Dimminsy's page

I for one definitely am in the camp of "see the dice, don't know the bonus to it/don't know if it succeeded" is the time in which this ability is valid. A lot of Pathfinder assumes (from wording of abilities that have to deal with die rolls) people play in the open since they assume more PFS which is strict adherence to RAW. I also think the ability is just fine as is with the ability to cause allies to reroll bad dice. It's a once a day benefit per ally and takes an non-free action. It's much better suited as an offensive ability. So is fireball but it can be used to burn a hanging bridge to escape an enemy across a chasm. I'm more of a RAW proponent but enjoy when abilities have multiple uses, such as "Mis"fortune.

This is probably the most ancient necro I've seen.

I'll just link this thread because the first few posts answer your questions better than I could. Blue + Stealth thread. A few quotes:

"A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover." PRD. Cover, not concealment.

"Normal light functions just like bright light, but characters with light sensitivity and light blindness do not take penalties." PRD Same for normal light.

"In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded." PRD

"A creature can't hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover." PRD

Bringing it all together: "So, in Bright and Normal light you cannot use concealment to attempt Stealth and therefore could not use Blur. In conditions of Dim Light or Darkness you can use concealment to attempt Stealth but you don't need Blur because you already have concealment from the conditions themselves."

Remember that many (if not most) creatures have low-light vision or dark vision. Low-light vision means their "normal light" area from say a torch goes out twice as far (40') as well as their "dim-light" area (another 40' after that). So in the dim-light area to the creature you can stealth, but in normal light you couldn't start a stealth. I believe you could remain stealthed until they saw you, though it'd probably be up to the DM. Darkvision is the same but you would have to start sneaking up on them at 65+ feet and hope they don't see you.

The feat/talent Hellcat Stealth/Hide in Plain Sight give you expanded uses of stealth. Hope this helps!

I think there's more problems than just the suitcase nuke with the plan. Not to mention it's not the most original. Feed the troll's ego, feed the troll's ego, feed the...

Assuming you have 40-41 Int as Anzyr is suggesting, just with a level 20 wizard and bonus spells, crafting the two 75 Maximized Piercing Explosive Runes nukes would take 8 days, 4 in the double speed time plane. (19 level 7-9 spell slots). I'm sure with Echoing Metamagic Rods, Pearls or Power, increasing the caster level even higher, or whatever else it'd be even quicker. There are several other legitimate holes in the plan (mostly having to do with Legend Lore, BBEG having done absolutely 0 prep work even though he's lived since forever, etc.), but being about to do prep work for 4 in normal game days for enough damage to kill one of the most powerful creatures in the game twice over in one round is absurd. Hence why I point to the needed "Seed Nerf".

EDIT: Assuming you were to add in a +5 from Dweomer's Essence, +1 from Ioun Stone, and low-balling a +6 from Cha from the Deific Obedience to each casting gives you a +36, then Piercing spell makes them always overcome. So that 150 went down to 44, aka less than two and a half normal time days without any extra items. Even more reason for this to just be insanity and to call in the Errata Hammer.

Let's just assume for a minute that Anzyr's plan actually works (where the BBEG has not made any plans, done no scrying, Blood Money works the way he wants it to, Legend Lore works the way he wants it to, etc).

Not exactly sure if this has been addressed (read everything I believe), but assuming we're sticking to the WBL, how exactly are we getting all these scrolls of Explosive Runes? By that I mean paying for them? Blood Money only works when you're casting a spell the same round and not for the inks/materials required to scribe a scroll so you'd still be on the hook for the scroll costs. Wish to poof a couple of them into existence would seem odd, and even then IMO they should count toward your WBL since they're "consumable" items and they count toward WBL. You'd want to ensure that the nuke actually works, twice. So to make sure it works, twice, let's assume minimum damage.

774/min(6d6) = 774/6 = 129 scrolls. x2 = 258, but scribe scroll cuts the crafting cost down to 12.5 each. Also you'd want the caster level to be as high as possible, and as far as I know only metamagic feats can be applied to spells, so 20 caster level. When using scrolls you use the scroll caster level, so (I believe) Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration or any other bonus doesn't apply to the scroll unless you have something specific. But in case I'm wrong and assuming you can add in the Ioun Stone that gives +1 to caster level, that's a 25 caster level.

Anyway, the cost:
3 spell level * 25 "caster" level * 12.5 = 937.5 gp each
937.5 gp each * 258 scrolls = 241,875 gp, and that's assuming they all get through the SR of 41 (more than likely not with a 1d20 + caster level check, max being 45, or a 25% chance for a specific scroll to work. 1-[(0.75)^258] = 99.999999999999999999999999999999% (calculator ran out of places) chance of the plan not working.).

Let's assume you apply Piercing and Maximize Spell to the scrolls (Empower wouldn't help with the cost). 774/max(6d6) = 774/36 = 21.5 = 22 scrolls. x2 = 44 scrolls, but again, 12.5 instead.

7 spell level * 25 "caster" level * 12.5 = 2187.5 gp each
2187.5 gp each * 44 scrolls = 96,250 gp, again assuming they all overcome the SR. 1d20 + 25 vs a 36 SR means a 50% chance for success on each detonation. 1-(0.5)^44 = 99.999999999994315658113919198513% chance of failure.

In order to have a 99.991% chance of success (at least 22 scrolls overcoming his SR) for one nuke, you need to drop 75 of the scrolls (math at this link putting in 0.5/75/22 into the boxes and looking at the bottom grey box). For both nukes to work with the above math, that would be a 99.9647% chance. Probably good enough to ensure he "dies both times."

That would cost: 2187.5 gp each * 75*2 scrolls = 328,125 gp. Aka 328,125/880,000 = 37.287% of all the wealth of your character. Worth it to put to sleep a being of untold death and destruction, but still very expensive.

Not too keen on item creation so these numbers may be off, but still, this shows a significant investment. This isn't free stuff, it's stuff that has to be paid for. Hopefully I did not miss the answer to this somewhere because this would be a huge waste of time lol.

Wakedown, are you a bard using Pageant of the Peacock?

Thank you, Matthew! For future reference, is Archives of Nethys good enough as a Pathfinder/PFS source? It was sourcing a campaign book so I will assume the text is quoted from the book.

Backbreaker Mail uses Beast Shape I (Transmutation), Disguise Self (Illusion), and Summon Monster I (Conjuration). If the linked text is the full text of the item, then there is nothing wrong with the item. It is not using illusion magic to cause a transmutation effect. Instead of using the Beast Shape III spell (which explicitly allows constrict) they use a combination of spells for the effect of "grants its wearer the constrict ability (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 298), dealing an amount of damage equal to 1d6 + the wearer’s Strength modifier." In all accounts this ability is much more limited than Beast Shape III, so it's an understandable "finagling" of spells for the desired effect.

This is not illusion magic causing a transmutation effect. It is transmutation magic (plus some others for flavor and to make the item cheaper imo) causing a transmutation effect. My point is not "any item using illusion magic cannot be transmuted (without outside means)." My point is any item that only uses illusion magic cannot be transmuted. Much like an item that only uses abjuration magic should not be able to cause a conjuration effect (like Summon Monster).

I'm off to bed, so hopefully there will be a reply in the morning.

I had a complete response about 10-15 minutes after Anzyr posted his response to mine and clicked post, then Paizo had server maintenance or something like that and I had to leave, so I lost it. Let's see if I can rewrite it all. I tried to make it where if all you read were the bolded portions you'd get the gist of my argument. However, if you're going to argue against, please do read the entirety. graystone, I hope this explains my argument clearly enough. =)

Lots of magic items do very different things from the spells used in them.

(later) The rules for what the magic item does are contained in its description.

(later again) Or do you believe Illusion spells actually alter an object form?

So to prove your point that "magic items do very different things from the spells used", you chose Gauntlets of the Weaponmaster. The Gauntlets use Heroism and Rope Trick to produce the item's effects. Let's see what the gloves can do:

• 1) Can store up to 10 weapons on command one at a time into the Gauntlets, using swift actions to retrieve them and switching place with the weapon already in the wearer's hand.
  
• 2) Allows the wearer to cast Greater Heroism 3 times per day on command.
  

Number 1 is covered by Rope Trick. One of the many uses of Rope Trick is to allow for the storage of items/gear/people. While the "rope" part of the spell is absent, the "trick" of storing items is still kept (weapons only to fit the theme of the item). Rope Trick is not being used to conjure up acidic arrows or summon a monster. It is being used as a way to store items, an appropriate use for the spell Rope Trick.

Number 2 is covered by Heroism. Now, I don't really know why it was specified instead of Greater Heroism, but the gold cost is more in line with Greater Heroism than Heroism (maybe it's to allow for easier crafting for martials using Master Craftsman/Craft Wondrous Item?). Greater Heroism is just a more powerful version of Heroism, and it is being used in a similar fashion. Heroism is not being used to scry on someone or to detect invisibility. It's an appropriate use of (Greater) Heroism.

Disguise Self, on the other hand, is not an appropriate spell to transform (transmute) the actual clothes of the user since it is illusion magic. If someone were to use only the spell Repel Vermin for the Sleeves but the text of the Sleeves read exactly the same, would you still say that the item does what it says? I would hope not, because an inappropriate spell was used. Repel Vermin would have nothing to do with the described effect. At the very least use the same school of magic for the desired item effect.

However, the spell Disguise Self is an appropriate spell for the Sleeves if the effect is, in fact, an illusion. Disguise Self is used for the Sleeves. Disguise Self is illusion magic. The item's effect is an illusion effect. So the clothing transformations are illusory. I do not see a break in logic in that flow.

So to answer the question I quoted from Anzyr, "No, I do not believe Illusion spells alter an object's real/physical form."

I personally don't really care to limit the things the Sleeves could transform into to the Clothing table, but I'm more inclined to do so because it is a simpler definition and more black and white. Much like it's simpler to say that an item using illusion magic produces illusion effects instead of transmutation effects. Otherwise, what's the point of the magic schools if their spells can be used interchangeably for desired effects? The rules must be taken as a whole, not picking the parts that produce the most beneficial outcome for the players. RAW includes the whole book/all books for context, not just the item snippet.

Hopefully this does not come across as an attack on others (as gkhager mentioned) nor any of my previous posts,
~Dimmins

The illusion evidence is largely illusory. Everything about how the item reads suggests an actual physical transformation. If it was an illusion it wouldnt need to specify that the clothes fit you perfectly or that they were always clean and mended or that removing the sleeves caused your clothes to revert to their original form.

Also if it were an illusion it would specify what sort of illusion it was based on, as for example the Hat of Disguise does.

The Hat of Disguise mentions the spell Disguise Self twice, once in the rules text and once in the craft text. The Sleeves of Many Garments mention Disguise Self in the craft text. The "sort of illusion" the Sleeves and the Hat are both based on is same spell Disguise Self, which was specified.

The reason it seems like it's a physical transformation is because you're reading transform in a physical sense instead of the context of illusion magic (which cannot cause physical change, only the appearance of change). "Andrew died from a gunshot" means something completely different when at a funeral compared to sitting in front of an Xbox.

Based on the spell used, it seems to me that the clothes are what are really illusory.

The so called illusions evidence is people making up rules like "Things made with illusion spells can't cause a physical transformation." That isn't a rule. The rules cited by Dimminsy at no point mention that an item with an illusion spell in its creation requirements can't cause a physical change. Dimminsy is citing rules for spells, not magic item creation...

(later) People who are disagreeing really need to cite some kind rule that magic item creation involving illusion spells can't be used to make items that cause a physical change.

Hold on, let me go make a vest that uses only Divination magic to become immune to grapples (or is that Freedom of Movement?). Let me go make a belt that uses only Necromancy magic to let me breath a cone of fire twice per day (or is that Dragon's Breath?). I thought you used an appropriate spell for the magical effect you're looking for for magic item creation, not Ant Haul to put a Cure Critical Wounds in a potion.

You are the one that needs to cite an example of an item that only uses one school of magic (in this example Illusion) that has the effects of another school of magic (in this example Transmutation). Something like the examples I used in the previous paragraph.

Example of something that follows the "appropriate spell use mold": Armor of the Deep

Aura moderate abjuration; CL 11th

Slot armor; Price 24,650 gp; Weight 50 lbs.
DESCRIPTION
This +1 full plate is decorated with a wave and fish motif. Although the armor remains as heavy and bulky as normal full plate, the wearer of plate armor of the deep is treated as unarmored for purposes of Swim checks. The wearer can breathe underwater and can converse with any water-breathing creature with a language.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, freedom of movement, tongues, water breathing; Cost 13,150 gp

Freedom of Movement = counted as unarmored for Swim checks. Water Breathing = wearer can breathe underwater. Tongues = wearer can converse with any talking water-breather creature. No abilities are having an extra-marital affair on their spell's school.

Now none of what I've said was to put down or insult. I only wished to show what I believe to be the absurdity in the opposing argument(s). Hopefully I didn't come across in a way in which I did not intend. =) Personally, do I think the item would be OP if it were to use Anzyr's definition of what the item can do? Nope. Do I think it's the correct (RAW) way to read the item? Nope. FAQ this junk though (and/or Ravingdork's other thread) 'cause I've already spent too much time on this thread and would prefer a clarification to stop this madness lol..

It's amazing to me how someone could make statements such as "*All* the evidence is in my favor. Literally all of it." It's almost like Anzyr has never watched a debate or seen a CSI show. =P No matter how much evidence someone has for their argument, there's always evidence for the other side. To make such declarative statements gets you nowhere in proving your point.

The illusion argument is, in fact (let's use that word since it seems to be a trigger), a valid argument. Let's look at the PRD (which I hope that you agree Paizo is the official source of how to rule things, otherwise we shouldn't even be talking).

Transmutation school of magic states:

Transmutation spells change the properties of some creature, thing, or condition.

The Transmutation school sounds more along the lines of the effect you're envisioning for the Sleeves (providing a non-disguise bonus from the type of clothing transformed into, DR/swarms, etc.). Let's compare that with the illusion school of magic:

Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

So the clothes that the Sleeves transform into "are not there". Since the Sleeves are illusion magic, and we know what illusion magic is and isn't, then we know what type of effect it is. They may appear to be there, but they really "are not there". Thus, they provide no stated benefit except at DM's discretion a circumstance bonus to a disguise check or to make it easier to blend into the populous. To further illustrate this point, let's look at the opening sentences for the subheadings/types of Illusion magic.

A figment spell creates a false sensation. (later on) Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects...

A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it.

A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive.

The only illusions that have any possibility to cause real change are the Shadow type.

A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.

Unfortunately, Disguise Self is an Illusion (Glamer) type. Unless the creators of the garment seriously "dun goofed" in the spell and school choice for the garments (which I believe is unlikely because I have a little bit more faith in Paizo than that), the effect does not produce actual clothing or bonuses from clothing type. For reference, here's a short list of Illusion Spells. Every single one of those spells does not produce or change an item, only images/sounds/obfuscation of things actually there/etc. Thus, this would be the first time to my knowledge that an illusion effect produced actual physical change in something and would be an overstep of the illusion magic school's bounds.

So, from all of this, taking the term "transform" into correct context (the context of illusion magic, not semantic jargon context) we can adequately conclude that the Sleeves effect does not provide the damage reduction from the Swarmsuit regardless whether it can take its appearance or not. This also goes for any other clothing the Sleeves can transform into.

"Swarmsuit itself says it is clothing. Fact.
Swarmsuit is non-magical. Fact.
Sleeves can transform your garments into new non-magical clothing. Fact."
Illusion magic cannot create actual material and by extension does not provide any benefits of that material to the user. Fact.

I just read through this whole thread and I've come to 2 conclusions

1) People really don't like swarms in PFS nor moving at 15 ft all the time.
2) I became a bit more RAW.

While I do not think it is overpowered for the sleeves to allow one to use a swarmsuit when need be, I don't think it's legal.

The hat is clothes as well. This is very simple. The swarmsuit (all of it) is clothing and is non-magical. Therefore, Sleeves of Many Garments can transform your clothes into it. It's a simple math equation of 2+2=4, where non-magical + clothing = sleevable. It's just basic math.

I'll go ahead and say that you've been incredibly rude to those with opposing viewpoints to yours, especially through using insinuating "man, how're you so stupid to think that way?" type of remarks.

Onto your point. Paizo's Clothing section. If you do a ctrl+f and type in "clothing", scrolling down you'll notice that out of the 40 listed clothes, only 8 include the word "clothing" in their descriptions. 15 of them include the word "outfit". 19 of them use the word "cloth" or "clothes". Arguing on the basis of the use of word "clothing" or any of its derivatives leads to some interesting things that can't be "sleeved". Entries that do not include those 3 words are Fire-Resistant Boots (boots mentioned), Hat(turban), Hennin (silk), Ice Skates (boots), Jewelry (belts), Kilt (skirt), Mask (fabric), Patchwork Cloak, Pocketed Scarf, Poncho (fabric), Reinforced Scarf, Reversible Cloak (fabric/linen/silk), Skis, Soldier's Uniform ("typically includes sturdy boots, leather breeches or a kilt, a belt, a shirt, gloves, a cloak or jacket, and a hat" none of which is, apparently, "clothing"), Tabard (garment), and Wig.

I sure hope you'll ban those 16 "not clothes" items from being used if you GM since they aren't clothing but are on the Clothing table.

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Limiting Clothing to "anything on the Clothing chart" may not be absurd, just as limiting "light melee weapon" are weapons under the chart "Light Melee Weapons" also may not be absurd, but it is a demonstrably false argument.

I'll be using d20pfsrd for links to feats since they're easier to directly link to than to official Paizo feats and people can correct me if the wording differs substantially.

Feral Combat Training expressly allows a natural attack to be counted as a monk weapon for monk weapon uses.

Mithral armor is treated as one type lighter than it is, even though you still need proficiency with heavy armor if you want to wear Mithral Full Plate without extra penalties.

Example specifically of a primary natural attack becoming a secondary when using manufactured weapons.

Unarmed Strikes are light weapons because they are specifically stated to be. A Monk is specifically stated to get full Strength damage bonus on all unarmed strikes.

Tie Up specifically states that it is an action that can be performed "If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious," and grappled is a "restrained" condition, so while grappling someone you can attempt to tie them up since it is "as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple" but it "requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty".

What's I'm getting at is, while the description of the Swarmsuit refers to itself as clothing, and the Sleeves of Many Garments say they can turn into any clothing, the only things we know for sure that are classified as clothing are in the Clothing table.

Consider the Transformative weapon enchantment. Would you say that, since a shield with spikes is a piercing weapon, a longsword (one handed weapon) with transformative on it could change into a spiked heavy shield (one handed weapon) and could be used for shield bonuses?

I think Pink Dragon on the previous page said it very well, so I'll quote their ending.

It is to avoid arguments like the one above that limiting clothing to the Table entitled "Clothing" in an official rule book (e.g. Table 2-9 in the Ultimate Equipment) is how the rule should be interpreted. Any other ruling leads to madness.

Wow, I go to bed and to work then come back and the thread has exploded lol. I posted my assumptions at the top of my OP, but none-the-less I'll give some reason for those assumptions.

For those that are saying a shield can't be a weapon and a shield, James Jacobs would have to disagree with you. 8th post on the thread.

"Costs +450 gp to masterwork an entire klar. Just like how it costs +450 to masterwork an entire spiked shield."

Referring to the 300 MW cost for a weapon and the 150 MW cost for an armor/shield. A more official link is the FAQ.

"Table 6–4: Weapon (page 142) lists light shields, heavy shields, and spiked shields as martial weapons. The shield bash attacks entries (page 152) say that using a shield in this way is a "martial bludgeoning weapon."

Even without shield spikes, a shield is also a weapon. Now if you want to ban it in home games on principle, that's your prerogative. However, it should be noted that since the James Jacobs post, the only errata on shields that came out since then was the ruling that you can't two-hand a shield. I can't find the link though for some reason.

Since a Spike Shield is a weapon and a shield, it can be upgraded to a max of +10 weapon enchantments and +10 shield enchantments. It's like a double weapon, except one of the weapons is a shield instead. You use the weapon enchantment table for the weapon enchantments and the shield enchantment table for the shield enchantments.

The advantage Shield Mastery gives you is applying the +5 from the shield bonus to the weapon part of the shield, so you don't have to have +5 Spikes/+4 Bashing Heavy Shield and instead can have +1 (acting as +4 and overcoming the DR as a +4) Keen Speed Spikes/+4 Bashing Heavy Shield Shield for the same price of 75480 (20 Steel Shield + 10 Spikes + 450 MW + 50000 weapon +5 cost + 25000 shield +5 cost). If the shield's made out of adamantine, it would cost 78030 (the 450 MW costs turn into the 3000 adamantine material cost for a weapon since there's no "shield" cost and a shield is a weapon).

I would like to point out however that, again by James Jacobs (5th post) it was not the intention for a +1 Spiked Heavy Shield of Bashing to deal 2d6 (1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6) damage. RAW, it's 2d6, but to be fair the Spiked and Bashing properties don't stack, so "only" 1d8 damage (can this only be piercing damage or also bludgeoning?). Doing 4.5 average damage instead of 7 average damage is worth the costs paid and brings it in line with other 1 handed weapons. However, I'd say Lead Blades and other magical effects would stack.

Hopefully of this didn't sound argumentative. I know this is a lot of debate on this subject. Just wanted to give the reasons why I'm going about this build the way I am.

EDIT: A nice little idea for those that want to focus on defense is adding the Defending property to the weapon side of the shield. If you have a cleric on your team or buy the appropriate caster level equivalent of the wand/scrolls, you can use Greater Magic Weapon to bump up your "spikes" to a +5 from +1, use the Defending property to convert the + to AC, then keep the +4/5 from the shield portion to damage still. Not too shabby.

This is one of those vilified Dual Shielding build threads.

Assumptions made:

• You can dual wield shields
  
• You can upgrade a shield as a +10 spikey weapon and +10 shield
  
• With Shield Master you don’t suffer the TWF penalties for either shield since they’re also a weapon
  
• Shield enchantments and materials overcome DR
  
• Most feats/items are ok as long as they're linkable and pre-approved by DM
  

Anyway, onto the good stuff.

Basic character backstory is (he’s a/they are) craftsman from a clan of (custom race) people that are born two headed and their quest is to find some *REDACTED* material to create the most powerful suit of armor known to man and must adventure to find it. Kilt wearing, armored Acrofatic is the idea I’m going for.

I don’t really play martials all that much, so this build is really throwing me for a loop. Traits/feat order/advice/optimization would be appreciated. Combat Expertise, Power Attack, and Weapon Finesse (applies to all light weapons) were changed to “combat options” by our DM, so just assume we have those feats as freebies. Probably won’t be using power attack until I get Shield Mastery though. I’m open to changing race, archetype, class, etc. but the basic idea of a strong but agile armorsmith making enemies weep has to be covered. Planning on Fighter (Brawler) using two heavy shields, to save money instead of switching out, even before level 11 and going ahead slapping on a +1 weapon enchantment to each of them since I’ll need at least that for the extra to hit and damage until the shield enchant bonus due to Shield Mastery kicks in. I’d like to fit Spiked Destroyer into the build somewhere but I’m just kinda at a loss already where things should go, especially the later levels.

The other characters on team are a Swordlord, a monk/soul knife, Dragon Disciple, summoner, and “healer” witch.

I’ve gone through several threads talking about dual shielding and most focus on non-lethal/damage and DPR. I want to deal enough damage to not suffer from “Monk Syndrome” while also being able to mechanically role-play protecting allies. As such I want him to take the two crafting feats, the Bodyguard feat combined with Benevolent armor, have one of the shields be Runeforged with the Symbiotic attunement. Since Benevolent is only a 2k cost, if need be Bodyguard can be swapped out at late levels if the bonus 6-7 to AC wouldn’t really be affecting hitting difficulty of enemies ‘though the benefit would need to be worth it. I’m not really worried about GTWF even though I’ll qualify for it because adding Speed to a shield would be simple enough (or Boots of Speed) and I’m feat starved as is.

I think I’ll be starting at level 8 or 9, so let’s just assume 9. Custom Race +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Cha. 27 point buy, 46k WBL + 25% from crafting feats = 59800 starting gold.

My working build and some items I’m thinking about

Str 24 (18+2 racial+2 level+2 Belt of Physical Might)
Dex 16 (14+2 Belt of Physical Might)
Con 12
Int 14 (12+2 racial)
Wis 16 (14+2 Headband of Wisdom)
Cha 5 (7-2 racial)

Celestial Armor or Celestial Plate Armor with the added properties of Benevolent and Longstrider (like the Boots of Striding and Springing to overcome the -10ms) for 5000gp.

Combine that with Celestial Shield so I can maneuver in an emergency.

+Str/Dex belt
If I go a Fighter archetype that does have Weapon Training I’d be more inclined to use Duelist Gloves.

Ioun stone + Wayfinder for +2 CMB? Or just not really worry about Bull Rush and just use the freebie control?

More?

Italics = Feats I’d really like to keep (movement around possible)
Bold = I think that’s the optimal place for those feats
Strikethrough = Are these feats worth it? Two Weapon Rend doesn’t get bonuses from Power Attack or any other bonus, so damage reduction hurts it a lot. Double Slice is +4 dmg on offhands when I have 26 Str. G. Bull Rush just seems like it wouldn’t be used nearly enough unless combined with overrun then bull rushing to your team on the next turn after Pin Down-ing them to their square.

1) (Combat Exp./P.Att.) (Race) TWF, (Lvl1) Imp. Bull Rush, (Com) Shield Focus
2) Weapon Focus (Shield)
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Bodyguard
5) Master Craftsman
6) Shield Slam
7) Craft Magical Arms and Armor
8) ITWF
9) Double Slice
10) G. Bull Rush
11) Shield Mastery
12) Pin Down
13) (Brawler) Stand Still, G. Weapon Focus (Shield)
14) Bashing Finish
15) Shield Specialization
16) G. Shield Specialization
17) Missile Shield
18) G. Shield Focus
19) Iron Will
20) Improved Initiative

I just fear I won't be enough of a threat to make armor matter.

This might be an allowed feat by my DM, pending approval. It would be much better than G. Shield Focus, but there’s just not enough feats as is anyway lol.

You make a good offense out of a great defense.
Prerequisite: Shield proficiency, Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding two shields, apply the shield bonus of both shields to your AC. If both shields provide an enhancement bonus to AC, apply the higher enhancement bonuses in full as the primary shield and +1 enhancement bonus for the off-hand shield.

Link

The way I’m reading this feat, if I have two +4 Heavy Steel Shields, I would add +2 from each shield, +4 from one shield’s enchantment bonus, and +1 enchantment bonus from the second shield, all of this stacking to a +9 instead of the normal +6 from just being able to have one in slot. This would stack with Shield Focus and what not. Is this how you would interpret this feat?

Thanks in advance for ideas! Hopefully I provided some as well.