Shameless plug for my Fighter Unchained thread... Without blowing my own trumpet, I genuinely think a couple of small tweaks solve a fair few issues...
Yup and then straight after, get to the chopper!
I always liked the Evangelist. Its OK but nothing special... the loss of 3D6 channel effectively kills off channeling completely and the spontaneous casting options are only meh! It tends to get used a lot due largely to the terrible cleric alternatives! Again Paizo's weird channeling thing/delusion.... channeling use is only just barely useful in certain situations and even the slightest weakening is enough to invalidate it completely. Hence why I've always thought when designing archetypes it should either have its function boosted somehow (eg Herald Caller) or completely removed and traded for something decent. No half measures!
So here's the lowdown on the Mythos Cultist amazingly worthwhile (*coughchokesplutter*) WIS damage ability They are all standard action, single living target, 30 foot range. Useage: 1/day at 5th and one extra use every 3 levels 5th level: 2 points of wisdom dmg + confusion and sickened for 1d4 rounds at 5th lvl. Will save negates. 11th level: 1d6+1 wisdom dmg + confused and sickened for 2d4 rounds. Will save reduces to 1 wisdom dmg and sickened for 1d6 rounds. 19th lvl: 2d6 wisdom damage and the target is permanently confused and sickened. Greater restoration, heal, limited wish, wish, or miracle can release the sickened and confused condition. Will save negates. This replaces the channel upgrades at 5th, 11th and 19th lvl. And here are my overall thoughts Well I have to say the Mythos Cultist is just plain bad....and very disappointing IMO, especially since the cleric only got 1 archetype whilst others got 3! 1) Making channeling more viable (a highly dubious idea in the first place) and then stripping 3D6 off the top just makes it doubly pointless. Variant channeling becomes the default/only option... bad news since theyre just not remotely worth the action economy. Also you're obliged to spend a feat due to the emphasis (which the cleric has very few of in the first place) in order to get Selective Channel. 2)The 19th level ability is a waste because: a) You're well into 9th level spell territory anyway.... infinitely better options have long been available b) The conditions can be removed by almost any half decent caster c) Will negates 3) The lower level abilities are barely useful and due to the standard action/limited use per day/single target/Will negates will rarely get any useage. 4) A bog standard cleric of a GOO/OG can easily be built to be a more effective cultist than the cultist archetype itself!... NEVER a good sign! 5) Just overall the trade offs in general are REALLY imbalanced...I'm seriously thinking of going part time as a chemist and then part time as an archetype designer! ;)) Another tombstone has appeared in the Graveyard of Cleric Archetypes; and as on the others it reads...'Great idea, very poor execution'....RIP
Some excellent suggestions ideas here... Well I do hate to say it... but I told you so regarding the latest 'attempt' at a cleric archetype Mythos Cultist GAINS +2 on certain knowledge skills
LOSES One entire domain
Its bizarre it really is... exactly like I was saying previously regarding channeling, Paizo keep on flogging that dead horse!! Having more uses of something thats terrible DOES NOT EQUAL good archetype design! You can make a basic cleric of a GOO/OG a more effective archetype than this archetype! What can I say..!
Its a bit of an unfortunate one - I can see why the antipaladin was put as CE because the paladin is always considered to be LG..... but this ends up with the problem that one class is defined entirely by the alignment of another class which is a bit crap! Thematically on the other hand the paladin and antipaladin are essentially the same thing but merely have different end goals.. Paladins believe in the rule of good....hence LG
Unfortunately CE ultimately only stands for anarchy in the name of evil! There is no method, rule or strategy!
As much as I love Pants, my own favorite spell has to be Explode Head. Scanners anyone?!?!
Even with the 1 level drop, Pathfinder Savant is still pretty good for Wizards and Clerics...
This is true only in the cases of a full-sized deity article, not in the bestiary entries for a Great Old One. OK cool.... I do love Paizo deity articles! :))) Any chance of more coming out in the near future for Great Old Ones/Outer Gods? I gather the only ones in Strange Aeons are for Hastur and Xhamen-Dor.
My initial thoughts on the situation and how I would address it are as follows: There are 2 related but different approaches. You always have to bear in mind that ‘Unchaining’ a class has so far not involved anything too dramatic. 1) Unchained Modular Approach and 2) Unchained + 2 new full classes (D10 and D6) Modular Approach The original cleric is ‘Unchained’ and as part of this 2 further options are offered. The full BAB 4-level, spontaneous divine warrior (Celestial Champion), and the ½ BAB 9-level, prepared caster (Pious Exemplar). These 2 further options could be almost viewed as Alternate Classes of the cleric, being more than archetypes but not quite wholly new classes. The 6th level casting options (Warpriest and Inquisitor) stay as they are largely well balanced and designed and serve as the middle ground between casting and martial. The ‘Unchained’ cleric has been modified to make it slightly less martial and more caster. As a D8 class there has to be some martial ability: - Light armour only and no shield
The full BAB 4-level caster (just initial thoughts could well be fleshed out a bit) - Heavy armour and martial weapons
The D6 HD ½ BAB ‘full divine’ caster (just initial thoughts could well be fleshed out a bit) - Still WIS based and prepared
On a comedic note... there has only been one time in my PF gaming career that I've actually had a dice (D4) thrown at me. BBEG conjurer, 2nd in command witch and 4 magus bodyguards... all effectively gone The spell responsible?... Greater Forbid Action Not one of my personal faves, but P4P right up there
3-5
Unlimited range, selective, full powered channel heals for summoned monsters is the frequently missed GOLD of the Herald Caller....
Blasphemy..... a swear word so bad that it can kill you and all of your friends!!.. LOL
The ideas that I had would be a mix of fighter only feats and abilities that they automatically got as they went up levels. For example: Effortless Assault Fighters due to their years of training and battle become fluid, instinctive creatures of war. Movement and attack become inseparable. At 4th level the fighter may move 10 feet as well as launch a full attack; this distance increases by 5 feet every 3 levels after. This total amount cannot exceed the fighter's natural move distance.
I thought I would do a couple of threads dedicated to the classes most in need of an update.... First up... kudos to Paizo for making a concerted effort in the last year to getting the fighter (least we forget one of the original 3..) to a reasonable level. Second, as has been seen,"unchaining" cant involve anything too radical. More like 'wide spread minor modifications'! I genuinely think that the fighter isnt that far away from being where they should be. There are 2 areas where I do think changes need to be made: 1) Action economy 2) Ability to hurt casters in a way that hinders future casting The second one in particular has always made complete sense to me and could in theory be incorporated into PF 2.0. Think about it.... If you're a (relatively) physically frail full caster at 10th level and you get walloped for 50% of your HP, realistically (even in the world of fantasy!) your casting should be significantly hampered. Getting your guts opened up should be detrimental! Maybe a fighter ability where if you make a critical hit for example, the casters casting time goes up a notch.... standard action becomes full action, swift action becomes standard.... etc Or maybe that the caster loses the ability to cast their top level of spell? More powerful spells = more concentration needed... As the fighter scales, and becomes more potent, the effects become more severe..... eg) caster cannot cast spells with somatic component? The logic being that the blood loss, shock.. etc makes the very act of spellcasting that much more difficult. The effects last until a certain amount of HP is healed?
Interesting opinions.... but I would disagree on some of your broken list.... Brawler?? Hunter??... REALLY?? My thoughts on the Arcanist was that it was unnecessary to start with. I think in its initial form it was broken but when they errata'd ACG they did sort some of the probs. Another bad thing that it did do was force the Exploiter Wizard archetype which is OP compared to core. Amen on the Shaman!... I just can't get how people can't see that it is a horrendous mistake and easily the most broken thing in PF. "Hello....allow me to introduce myself... I have all the best bits of the Tier 1 classes and none of the downsides! Observe as I simultaneously make everyone in my party redundant!"
Fascinating insight thanks! I've never played so its very interesting to get the inside read.
Lets see now... 9th level casting - Y
I say this with complete certainty... there has never been a more farcical, OP class in the history of Paizo....! If however the above is your idea of well designed then I sincerely apologise in advance.
QFT X 10
It'll wear off when they realize there aren't any more books coming out. I disagree - I've never played 5e but if its game mechanics are a lot smoother than PF then surely that makes the release of more material (eg classes, spells..) that much easier? If the basic fundamentals are easier to get into then that should make for a more stable platform going forward.
Fighters have been receiving an awful amount of stick recently.... :((
Great thread idea.... I've only been playing PF for about 3 years. ACG was kind of the first big change in the game dynamic that I came across.
Not a fan...v.poorly designed IMO. Should have been a strict druid/witch hybrid which is spot on thematically to what it represents.
As it stands it is a druid/witch/wizard/oracle/cleric hybrid... a complete mess. It is no surprise that it struggles to define itself when it treads on sooooooo many toes!
Well yes since Cthulu isnt a god as such... as opposed to the Outer Gods who are obviously so...
Hi Mark Any chance you could just give us the names of the archetypes in the book.... my imagination can then get some exercise till the release! :))
Surely x10 the reason to hinder full casters getting high AC then!?
As an aside I am hugely in favour of errata. It shows Paizo are reflective in what they do, which is always a good thing and hopefully that they listen to feedback from their customers, which as a business if you dont do will eventually end up with you going down the toilet!
2 reasons: a) Because invariably the GM has shelled out a load of money on the AP stuff plus all the usual GM kit AND puts a load of time in to running a campaign, keeping track of everything, making things fun and putting up with all the nonsense b) There is no b) because a) is so mind blowingly obvious!
I have only been playing PF for a short period of time but one of the things that I find most astounding is the staggering ingratitude shown towards GMs (although this is not just PF specific).... You get players who would never in a million years volunteer to GM but who are more than happy to b!%*% and moan about every decision and God help you if their PC dies!!! Amazing.....
I think with due respect you should go back and read the Realms of Chaos books again and the many White Dwarf's that accompany them! There have been many references to the non-evil nature of the Chaos gods. For example there were references to worshippers being embraced by Slaanesh down to nothing more than their dedication to enjoying their lives by indulging in alcohol and song! You could never get into a fight in your entire life and Slaanesh couldnt care less!! In respect to the OP, you are confusing issues: How the followers of chaos gods choose to interpret their gods beliefs is NOT THE SAME as the canon of the gods themselves.
Dogs wag tails..... not the other way around! In a similar way with modern religions, followers interpret things in varying ways. It doesnt make them "wrong" per se, but it certainly does not define them as "right" either! So in the case of the Chaos gods, the following would be entirely appropriate possible domain/subdomain choices. Khorne - Honor
The Chaos gods are not "evil" they just "are"....
It does depend on what version of things you are reading... there are a lot of references that discuss the "positive" aspects of each chaos god... The canon has been adjusted and changed over the years... Examples: "Khorne is the god of anger and destruction, the warrior god of Chaos whose bellows of rage echo throughout time and space. He sits upon a great throne of brass atop a mountainous pile of bleached skulls. Whenever a champion of Khorne is slain in battle his skull is added to the pile, which slowly grows higher and higher. Khorne is a fighting god and his daemons and mortal Champions are amongst the most potent warriors of all. Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood. Khorne's great delight is battle and the spilling of blood" In a similar vein, Tzeentch is viewed as not just the god of deception and trickery but also of hope, evolution and dreams
I've said it before, in order to make proper progress "Unchained" needs to become the default setting, not just a set of possible rules. Paizo needs to bite the bullet on this in order to move forwards IMO
Not remotely for the sorceror Fighter could do with a couple of small tweaks.... I had an idea that at 10th level they could half move but then still full attack?
Deep down he loves me really! ;) I read somewhere that the animated series is considered the definitive portrayal of Batman & Joker....
Fair enough. In my mind Ranger screams rough and ready outdoorsman with very little time for nonsense and finery.....the Dandy is the absolute antithesis of that IMO and thus lame. Its like having a druid archetype that is all about expertise and giving advice with house cats, labradors and budgies in cages !
These line of spells are almost reason enough to play a cleric of Asmodeus!
With great difficulty!
In my relatively short time playing PF I have noticed that quite a few of the archetypes IMO lack depth - there are plenty of archetypes for each class but a lot of them are just... "Take away this, put in that". With a system like PF that is seemingly not that keen on prestige classes, archetypes are one of the few ways to really coming up with a defining character idea. I personally would soooooooo much prefer if there were 40-50% the number of archetypes but that each one was fleshed out properly into its niche, with a real interesting set of abilities that reflect advantages and disadvantages. I just feel that Pazio has a tendency to churn them out rather than sit down and "give life and identity to it." I would love to get some ideas and thoughts on this.... if only to tell me that I'm barking mad! ;)
One of the things I've enjoyed but been surprised about, is how its not an issue being a girl in a RPG gaming group. Most times I'm the only girl in the group but no-one has batted an eyelid. I know RPG playing is very much seen as a geeky guy thing but I think more women are giving it a go. Quick survey... who here has a girl in their group... and is she treated with the respect she unquestionably deserves!! ;))
Hurry up Amazon!!!! :))
Summoning is generally always a solid option!
I dont see why min/maxing and fun cant go together...in fact I think they can compliment each other well.
Bards are the archetypal Jack of all Trades - ideal for filling in the gaps!
I still remember with fond memories playing the TMNT RPG!!!... Played a gorilla!
Bard playing = fun playing! |
